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Jaded Burnout posted:Of course it's very hard to know exactly where things are manufactured, but SIP is a UK company with their main factory in Leicestershire. The whole table shipped in a few days. I am. I need to see this house finished.
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Jun 18, 2020 15:41
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Gasmask posted:I am. I need to see this house finished. Hm. If I were to put an actual time on it.. actually finished finished to my own needs and standards... 2023? That is not a joke.
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Jun 18, 2020 15:51
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Hopefully these dead gay forums will still be operating then.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:18
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You should stop calling that room your kitchen and just call it the "workshop" now. It looks like you now have more workshop appliances and accessories than you do kitchen ones!  Jaded Burnout posted:Of course it's very hard to know exactly where things are manufactured, but SIP is a UK company with their main factory in Leicestershire. The whole table shipped in a few days. I suspect a very large amount of the machine does come from Shenzhen and is likely assembled there but that SIP deal with/spec all the packaging locally so that you get a proper manual written in real English and that they also keep a warehouse full of parts and stock in the UK and have UK based engineers so that they can warranty and support it. I have a SIP compressor; which when I bought it looked exactly the same as the variously branded Chinese ones that I could also buy on ebay but was about £30 more and this gets you a warranty honoured by an actual UK company.
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Jun 19, 2020 09:03
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Tomarse posted:I suspect a very large amount of the machine does come from Shenzhen and is likely assembled there but that SIP deal with/spec all the packaging locally so that you get a proper manual written in real English and that they also keep a warehouse full of parts and stock in the UK and have UK based engineers so that they can warranty and support it. Yeah, it depends. There's definitely white labelled equipment, but it's also quite possible their more flagship items are built in-house. Out of curiosity I've emailed their technical team to find out. Fortunately this shouldn't impact the delivery of some bolts, though.
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Jun 19, 2020 10:08
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SIP posted:Thanks for your enquiry.
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Jun 19, 2020 11:33
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So, have you thought about getting on with building your workshop in the garden, so you can move this in there and have a sawdust free, finished kitchen? I’m in the same boat with a much less ambitious house renovation, currently ongoing on all fronts - but attempting to do things right. Do you find that loved ones think you’re crazy for not finishing the main living spaces first?
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Jun 19, 2020 12:14
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wooger posted:So, have you thought about getting on with building your workshop in the garden, so you can move this in there and have a sawdust free, finished kitchen? I have so far mentally put a pause on everything outdoors, but I suppose I could start talking to builders. I would want to be able to move fairly quickly from breaking ground to having a weather-tight structure. It would also require me to fully think through how I want the garden to end up, so that I can do things in a reasonably efficient way, e.g. there's no point in having several tonnes of earth dug up for foundations and removed, only to have to bring a bunch back in for landscaping. wooger posted:I’m in the same boat with a much less ambitious house renovation, currently ongoing on all fronts - but attempting to do things right. Yes, they do like to say flippant things like "why don't you finish room X", but it's never that easy. Earlier in the year I put in a real push to fully finish the main bedroom, and got stopped at the carpeting, because the skirting board has to go in before the carpets, and the skirting board is tied in to the rest of the house. Not literally, but stylistically and economically in terms of purchasing in bulk, temporary storage, all that. As it stands I'm trying to wrap up projects, so getting the stairs in is high priority. Other paused projects that are taking up space include doors and cladding, but again the doors have to go in after the carpet so it's a whole thing. Maybe I should do a gantt chart. I don't super want to start new projects that will take me away from finishing open ones. My father is keen to help me finish the cladding, though, so perhaps I should make some more concrete plans to tackle that.
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Jun 19, 2020 12:23
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Its good they answered honestly and quickly. That's pretty much what I thought and i'm perfectly happy with that approach as long as the UK "reseller"/"re-brander" is gonna support and warranty it directly themselves for at least a few years and hold stock of the parts Jaded Burnout posted:I have so far mentally put a pause on everything outdoors, but I suppose I could start talking to builders. I would want to be able to move fairly quickly from breaking ground to having a weather-tight structure. It feels super good to get a room finished even if the rest of the place is still a mess. you can shut the door of the finished room and forget about it  From the size of your garden the amount of soil you are likely to need for landscaping is likely to be minimal and the cost of buying some back isn't huge. I'd be moving ahead with the workshop build and just get them to leave me one skip sized pile of soil and just buy more if i needed it when i eventually got to the garden. You might end up reassessing the garden design once you physically see it with the finished building in..
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Jun 19, 2020 13:45
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Yes, agree. Topsoil and mulch has minimal costs compared to house related purchases, and getting all new stuff in avoids a multi year process of sifting out stones, broken glass and random junk from your existing soil. As long as you can make a clear, solid path to the workshop and put the building in at a sensible height in relation to any planned landscaping, no reason to delay. I have the same issue as JB with skirting boards and doing things in a sensible order at the cost of having finished flooring / my sanity. But my issue is getting distracted by my garden whenever the weather isn’t dogshit.
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Jun 19, 2020 15:31
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Jaded Burnout posted:Yeah, it depends. There's definitely white labelled equipment, but it's also quite possible their more flagship items are built in-house. China builds to the customer's specifications, so can still be good, if that's what the seller wants. Note that, for example, most audio gear and electronics come out of China, and varies from, say, Alpine, to whatever that crap on Banggood is. RE: finishing stuff - this is where I get stuck. To do this, I gotta do this, which means I gotta do that, which means I gotta do the other thing... Or re-do it later. I think my wife finally understands why I'm reluctant to "just fix the thing" on our (only) 55 year-old-house, when several just-fix-it projects turned into more-than-minor endeavors because it uncovered some other hosed up thing that stops the project or drags it out. And I'm the type that can't just ignore the thing revealed. edit: the main problem is having to live in the project. If I had an apartment, travel trailer, another house...
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Jun 19, 2020 16:04
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Tomarse posted:Its good they answered honestly and quickly. That's why I went straight to the technical line  Tomarse posted:It feels super good to get a room finished even if the rest of the place is still a mess. you can shut the door of the finished room and forget about it Yep, but as mentioned not always possible. Tomarse posted:From the size of your garden the amount of soil you are likely to need for landscaping is likely to be minimal and the cost of buying some back isn't huge. wooger posted:Yes, agree. Topsoil and mulch has minimal costs compared to house related purchases, and getting all new stuff in avoids a multi year process of sifting out stones, broken glass and random junk from your existing soil. It's not so much the material cost of soil per se, but things like am I going to have to tear out the neighbour's fence again? Don't wanna do that twice. Don't want to have more giant trucks parked on the street than absolutely necessary. And that's just one example out of many, the point being that I would have to think everything through fully before I can make a call on whether something will or won't be a problem, and that in itself takes time and energy. Plus, when we dug the foundations for the extension it turns out I have really nice soil here, a good mix of substrates, so I'm inclined to have them dig out new foundations and just level out the whole garden with a 6" layer. wooger posted:But my issue is getting distracted by my garden whenever the weather isn’t dogshit. Well quite, exactly why I'm not dealing with it right now! Darchangel posted:edit: the main problem is having to live in the project. If I had an apartment, travel trailer, another house... In many ways this is true, yes. Darchangel posted:China builds to the customer's specifications, so can still be good, if that's what the seller wants. Note that, for example, most audio gear and electronics come out of China, and varies from, say, Alpine, to whatever that crap on Banggood is. Agreed, it's not a dealbreaker by any means.
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Jun 19, 2020 16:26
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Jaded Burnout posted:Maybe I should do a gantt chart. I honestly and not taking the piss thought you would be the sort of person that already has one. I have an A0 whiteboard in the garage that gets pressed into service for that when I have a project on the go, like the cabin.
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Jun 19, 2020 16:34
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cakesmith handyman posted:I honestly and not taking the piss thought you would be the sort of person that already has one. I have an A0 whiteboard in the garage that gets pressed into service for that when I have a project on the go, like the cabin. I sort of have one in my head, and I've written several applications to help me monitor cashflow, but as yet I've not needed to do a lot of actual path-based planning since I'm doing most things solo right now, so there's little parallelisation possible in any case. I did fill out quite a hefty chunk of an omnifocus project, but they don't support android so it became worthless when I switched from ios.
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Jun 19, 2020 16:47
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Honestly, the way you describe your project is a lot like how I describe the day to day work of living with unmedicated ADHD. A depends on B which depends on C which depends on F, and before you know it you've spent a day researching and buying just the right tool to extract frobs out of weezums, and no-one else in your life knows or cares what a frob or a weezum is. I think a gantt chart would be really helpful, especially if it can help you work out what parts of your project you can live with being "good enough" rather than 100% perfect. Jaded Burnout posted:M8s lying around you wot, M8s?
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Jun 20, 2020 02:47
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:Honestly, the way you describe your project is a lot like how I describe the day to day work of living with unmedicated ADHD. A depends on B which depends on C which depends on F, and before you know it you've spent a day researching and buying just the right tool to extract frobs out of weezums, and no-one else in your life knows or cares what a frob or a weezum is. I think this is possible, I don't know. But one thing I've learned from experience is that there's usually some context you're missing, which needs ferreting out before starting, if only so you know you can dismiss it as "good enough". To take a random example, the garden project as a whole right now is a sea of unknown. The vast majority of the details will not matter and will be dismissible, but without looking at everything there's no way to know where the land mines are. Figuratively speaking. So, while in the past I may have embarked on something off the cuff, or hired someone and trusted their judgement, I've learned I can't do that. Recon is required.
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Jun 20, 2020 10:35
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So, where were we. While replacement bolts etc were trickling in, I decided to continue on with the assembly. Side table.    After snugging up the bolts it was at this point that I realised that, despite the tables having matching bolt holes on both sides, only one edge has a bevel, and I had this one backwards.  Flipped it around and started working it up to level.  This was extremely unpleasant and almost entirely redundant, because the instructions in the manual suggest a level of adjustment not available in the real world, because as the bolts tighten up they kinda choose their own level to sit at. The manual being wrong will be a recurring theme in this post.  Finally done.  New bolts arrived.  The square-head bolts for the side rails have proven to be almost impossible to get hold of. They're available from a few signage places, but at almost £1 each and a minimum purchase of 10. I need 1. No matter, onwards. With the bolts in tow I can fit the other wing, but that would involve moving either the saw or the workbench.  The workbench is easier to move, but there's nowhere for it to go, so saw it is. Wheel kit.  I have no idea what this piece is for. It doesn't seem to fit anything, doesn't have any fixings, and isn't listed in the manual.  First up we attach this hook thingy to the wheel bar thinger that came with the saw, because doing this after it's on the saw would be unpleasant.  Then put the thing on the thing  On the other side these things need things    I know it looks really weird like they're just sat next to it, but that's how they actually want it done. This is in the "raised" position.  Wheel lever thing in the front.  It was really unhappy about being rotated while unbalanced, but it was fine, no drama.  Somewhere in there I realised I needed some washers. I'd already ordered some, but without double checking the OD, and they only just arrived, so I'm just going to have to send those back. Instead I went down to screwfix and picked some up, twice as many at half the price.   So this time I kept the wing propped up the whole time, using more scraps to set the height as I went. Much easier.  Blurry.  With the wings assembled it's at this point I realised the manual was wrong again. Remember how I need 10 of those square head bolts, but they only gave me 9? Well the package from SIP hasn't arrived yet but no matter because in the real world there's only 9 bolt holes.  Listening to Bowie as the sun sets, screwin' in bolts.   Front rail slid on, and end capped.  The QA on these parts is   I battled with this little bastard (fine adjustment knob) for over an hour and eventually gave up. There's no instructions on how it's supposed to go on, and I wasn't getting anywhere with intuition, since things just didn't line up right.   Left it at that for the night.  This morning I followed a hunch and tightened up the rails first (again the manual is wrong, saying there's room for adjustment when there isn't, and saying the target gap under the fence is 1mm when it's 2mm). After that and taking the adjuster entirely apart I was able to get everything on and behaving correctly.  Fence calibrated to the blade.  I get a pretty good fully supported 800mm cut on the right, and 680mm on the left with this thing. Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 14:48
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This evening I fitted the riving knife, and wired on a 13A plug. Now, this thing is rated at 3kW, and at 230V this gives a max current of 13.0434782609A, so if it really blasts the current on startup then it could pop the fuse, which is what I think happened, as when I gave it a test startup it went boop and stopped almost immediately. It hasn't tripped any breakers, so I think the fuse in the plug went. Possibly the extension, but probably the plug. For some reason my replacement 13A fuses have gone walkies so I can't test this, so I'll just go straight for figuring out a proper 16A solution. All of my sockets are shaped for domestic 13A, so I'll need an adapter of sorts like I have on the jointer, except this eats more power, so I need to eradicate the extension reel I currently have in the way. I need a legit 16A extension, not a long one, but enough to get to the middle of the space. That or I wire on a longer cable, but I'd rather not if I can avoid it. So, back to poking around the screwfix catalogue and see what's available. Goal: a short-as-possible 16A path from the saw to the wall.
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Jun 22, 2020 21:34
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Good on you for keeping at the house and all the included projects, it seems like "3 steps forward, 2 steps back" at times
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Jun 22, 2020 21:57
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Pigsfeet on Rye posted:Good on you for keeping at the house and all the included projects, it seems like "3 steps forward, 2 steps back" at times It definitely is. I mean, at any point I could pay someone to give me the final product, but I'd like to build these skills myself. As for the electrics, I've had a poke around and I'm confident that I don't know enough to be sure I'm being safe, so I'm going to do a bit more thinking and probably call my sparky.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:00
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At least in the US for sizing circuits for machinery, take the full load amps (13) and multiple x 1.5 to get the right breaker size and wire size to account for extra startup juice, so it should probably be on a 20A fuse. No idea if that applies in UKlectrics, but it works here on both single and 3 phase 220. The manuals of course never tell you that, they always just say ‘make sure this is installed by a qualified electrician and the circuit is correctly sized for the machine etc etc ‘ I have some fun homemade adapters, but they are all to let me run a15A machine on a 30A circuit, not the other way around. It’s not ideal, but much much safer than the other way around. When in doubt, definitely call the sparky-you don’t want to fry the motor or yourself. E: also holy poo poo that table with the wings is like 6’ long! 
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Jun 22, 2020 22:35
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:The manuals of course never tell you that, they always just say ‘make sure this is installed by a qualified electrician and the circuit is correctly sized for the machine etc etc ‘ The manual specifies "minimum of 16A", which lines up with the usual ceeform 16A plugs. Kaiser Schnitzel posted:E: also holy poo poo that table with the wings is like 6’ long! 4'11"
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Jun 22, 2020 22:41
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Jaded Burnout posted:So, back to poking around the screwfix catalogue and see what's available. Goal: a short-as-possible 16A path from the saw to the wall. In case you are not aware the UK standard for 16A connectors is the 16A Commando (the same connector as caravans/motorhomes use at low ampage) Screwfix sell 16A plugs and inline sockets and ready made extension leads (though the extensions are not cheap) https://www.screwfix.com/p/abb-16a-2p-e-connector-250v/3967x https://www.screwfix.com/p/abb-16a-2p-e-connector-250v/2264x You're gonna have to put a UK plug on it at the wall end though unless you are gonna get a 16A outlet installed? (I get 16A and 32A commando's installed in server rooms). You can buy 16A fuses from ebay that would fit in a UK plug and I guess they are breaking the rules slightly but if you know your ring is good and are not running much else on the same ring at the same time nothing should get overloaded. If you want some cheaper 16A flex cable that already has a UK plug on at one end you can buy a "C19 power cable" eg https://www.amazon.co.uk/FSKE-Meters-Power-Cable-Extension/dp/B07MPP8X9M Many servers and UPS's use these as they are rated for a 16A supply (generally only required at full chat). The C19 plug and the cable is rated for 16A but they come with a 13A fuse in the UK end.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:53
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Tomarse posted:In case you are not aware the UK standard for 16A connectors is the 16A Commando (the same connector as caravans/motorhomes use at low ampage) mm, that's roughly where I came down on it too. I'll text the electrician tomorrow and ask if I'm cool to push the envelope a bit on the ring. I need to map out exactly which sockets are on which ring out here, it's a bit higgledy piggledy. I'll need to run a dust extractor at the same time, so I can put that on another ring if I know which are which.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:05
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Jaded Burnout posted:mm, that's roughly where I came down on it too. Look at the breaker on the ring. Mine are 30A and the ring is wired with 2.5mm cable which I think has a max rating of 24A. The bit only rated for 13A technically is the individual UK plug and socket assembly. If you have a cooker electrical socket installed in your 'workshop' that you are not yet using then you could also wire the saw into that for now - though you should use wire rated up to the ampage of the RCD on the cooker spur in the fusebox (prob 32A) and note that it wont trip until you hit that RCD ampage. 6mm cooker cable like https://www.screwfix.com/p/prysmian-6242y-grey-6mm-twin-earth-cable-10m-coil/29733 would do the job (you could put an inline 32A commando plug/socket in there for easy disconnection but I don't know how this would stand legally!). (Please note I am not an electrician but I do spend far too much time asking builders to install 16A and 32A sockets for servers, creating power/load calculations and trying to deal with power distribution and have also read through most of the UK wiring regulations while trying to fix my house!) Tomarse fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 23:17
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Tomarse posted:Look at the breaker on the ring. Mine are 30A and the ring is wired with 2.5mm cable which I think has a max rating of 24A. The bit only rated for 13A technically is the UK plug and socket assembly. The ring breakers are 32A RCD, but I'm not sure which sockets are on which, so I need to poke around so I can make sure I'm not overloading it. I do have a cooker circuit which is actually 40A rated, and I did think about that. Mayyybe it make sense to put some kind of socket there? I'd still need an extension. I dunno.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:28
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How often are you actually going to use 16a inside? I'd run one right next to the consumer unit and build a 16a extension rather than messing with your ring mains. I'm not a full 18th edition electrician but I do BS7909 stuff at work and none of this sounds great. 
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Jun 23, 2020 00:05
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TTerrible posted:How often are you actually going to use 16a inside? I'd run one right next to the consumer unit and build a 16a extension rather than messing with your ring mains. I'm not a full 18th edition electrician but I do BS7909 stuff at work and none of this sounds great. mm. so I think the two current (lol) contenders are a) go direct to the consumer unit and a long extension, but that's proper electrician territory because I'd need a new breaker etc, and that breaker would be wasted afterwards unless I put in a large enough one that it can be reused for the workshop b) split off from the cooker line, which is a single 10mm feed running from a 40A breaker that was rated for a 7.4kW (14.8kW max load) induction range that I changed my mind about. It's currently powering a bog standard oven and they wouldn't be run simultaneously. The only potentially janky part of that would be the wiring? Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 08:01
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Jaded Burnout posted:mm. so I think the two current (lol) contenders are Either of these will do but personally I'd go with the first one, get the workshop-sized breaker and ask the sparky about a temp 16/32A socket and wiring prep for the workshop.
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Jun 23, 2020 08:53
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Alright so I've been having a chat with the wiring thread and it looks like the consumer unit option is the right one, so I'm going to be getting the electrician in to fit a socket in a way that's reusable for the workshop later on, and I'll probably build myself a 2.5mm extension or something. In the meantime I popped out to screwfix and grabbed 10 of each commonly available fuse to restock whatever ghost stole my 13A ones, and put a new 13A to the current plug just to confirm that's where the weak link was. When I started it up I was expecting another half-hearted blump followed by silence, but it actually span all the way up and went along nicely. Now, what caused the original fuse to blow where this one didn't, I don't know, but I hopefully know well enough now not to rely on this borderline situation, so I'm leaving it off for now. I'm happy enough that the hypothesis holds, and moving forward with a proper setup is all that's needed to solve the problem. In the meantime it's going to be a very expensive work table.
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Jun 23, 2020 12:26
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Wrap a cord round the motor shaft and pull start it just before you hit the switch as a manual soft start. don't do this
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Jun 23, 2020 12:29
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cakesmith handyman posted:don't do this Yeah probably a better idea to put gloves on and just spin start by hand.
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Jun 23, 2020 12:48
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Take the chance to install 3 phase, you will get access to much cheap goodies in the UK then. You know you want to.
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Jun 23, 2020 13:07
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Jaded Burnout posted:Yeah probably a better idea to put gloves on and just spin start by hand. That sounds dangerous, how about installing a jockey wheel onto an angle grinder and friction driving it?
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Jun 23, 2020 13:09
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His Divine Shadow posted:Take the chance to install 3 phase, you will get access to much cheap goodies in the UK then. You know you want to. What's involved, and what's the benefit?
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Jun 23, 2020 13:18
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Jaded Burnout posted:What's involved, and what's the benefit? The main benefit is that almost all industrial machinery is 3 phase and so it opens up a huge new world of used industrial machinery that is usually much better quality and cheaper than new single phase consumer machines. That stuff is also usually fuckoff massive and may not fit so well in your kitchen? 3 phase motors are dead simple and last forever and nothing ever happens to them, plus they are usually cheaper per HP than single phase. Jokes about pull starting aside, you actually can run three phase motors on single phase by doing that..... There are also ways to convert single phase to three phase to run 3 phase machinery if it’s not available. E: 3 phase motors also have a lower amperage requirement per HP (because they get 3 phases of power instead of 2) so you can use smaller, cheaper wires/breakers etc. and they are usually marginally more efficient and slightly cheaper to run. If your 3kW motor were three phase, it might only draw 7-8A. Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 13:55
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Gotcha, thanks. That seems like far more effort than I'd get benefit from, since I'm hoping to never buy another piece of major machinery, not in this house, anyway.
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Jun 23, 2020 14:58
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Jaded Burnout posted:What's involved, and what's the benefit? The benefit is your kitchen workshop gets some larger super machine islands. Every cheap used industrial machine on craigslist is yours. You can run everything! The power!
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Jun 23, 2020 15:44
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Unlimited power!
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Jun 23, 2020 15:47
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Electrician booked in for next Thursday. In the meantime I'll clear up and have another stab at the stair routing jig.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:30
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