Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




It now also occurs to me that a lack of a specific pipe adapter on the market is less of an issue for someone with a 3D printer.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Jaded Burnout posted:

It now also occurs to me that a lack of a specific pipe adapter on the market is less of an issue for someone with a 3D printer.

Yeah, 3d printing is a good way to make one off parts like that or even little home projects. The only thing can be matching the plastic to what the use is, since PLA is cool for random indoor doodads but won't hold up in heat or to UV. Prusa sells ASA which is similar to ABS but not vulnerable to UV, and there's always some nylon blends you can print that are super tough and polycarbonate blends that are pretty rigid (both are a bit pricey but not usually used in large amounts). PETG is also a decent material for water resistant parts since it's similar to PET which is what most soda and water bottles are made out of.

You can also do weird projects that might have a part that you could buy but you just, make it. The dehumidifier here runs all summer and fills up about 4 gallons a day (sometimes more, sometimes less). I empty it every night by hauling the 8 gallon bin to the toilet and pouring it in, but I always figured that's silly, there should be a way to do it automatically. Like scripting something you do every day to make it not a human involved process unless there's a failure. Last summer I finally set up a little pump with a tube that runs to up and over the ceiling in the basement to the washing machine drain. I 3d printed stands for the sectional badminton pole I repurposed to become the vertical part for the tube and 3d printed little hoops I could screw into the joists and adjust the angle they were at for the tube to be supported every few feet.

Of course I procrastinated the final part of the project which is setting up the microcontroller with an ultrasonic sensor to turn the pump on and off. I've got the microcontroller with the sensor and a relay, and I ran a test arduino sketch to try it out, but it was time to turn the dehumidifier off for the year before I set it up. The pump works though, I can empty the bin in a minute or two just by turning it on manually. It's getting automated this year but of course will have a water alarm by the top to let me know if it's failing.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Rexxed posted:

Yeah, 3d printing is a good way to make one off parts like that or even little home projects. The only thing can be matching the plastic to what the use is, since PLA is cool for random indoor doodads but won't hold up in heat or to UV. Prusa sells ASA which is similar to ABS but not vulnerable to UV, and there's always some nylon blends you can print that are super tough and polycarbonate blends that are pretty rigid (both are a bit pricey but not usually used in large amounts). PETG is also a decent material for water resistant parts since it's similar to PET which is what most soda and water bottles are made out of.

I did a bit of looking around last night and came to the same conclusion about ASA, but decided not to buy any just yet and go for the route that doesn't cost me more money, for now.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Today I wanted to locate that waste hole (hmm), so I went into the to-be bathroom and gave my best guess as to where it was on the outside.

I then went outside (up a ladder) and tappy tapped the wall with a hammer, and got different sounds in the area I thought it was in.



It wasn't. Or at least I seem to be hitting red brick, which shouldn't be happening.

So I went back inside and measured everything from a common point, then went back outside and marked it.



Drilled a test hole and it seemed to be correct.



Quick chiselling, nope, still loving brick. I must've hit mortar on the last test.



So I'm going to have to drill from the inside, which I didn't want to do a) because I'll have to destroy part of the pipe or the wall around the hole or both, and b) because it requires a longer drill bit.

The latter part isn't so bad because I previously bought these:



I don't remember if I bought them just for the chisels (which I used to clear a small patch of concrete), or for if/when I needed to do what I'm about to do, but the longest bits are ~360mm of flute which should be plenty for a (usually) 300mm external wall. I think maybe I bought them for drilling holes for outdoor tap plumbing, which I've not yet used them for but will need to be. It's documented somewhere in this thread anyway.

Depending on where the final hole lands, I may have to patch some or all of that large section I chipped off, so I've ordered a bag of deep-patch white masonry filler which should do the job just fine. I already had need for something like that in the back of my mind as I've spotted a few places here and there where the render has broken a little.

How do you folks store these bulk construction powders? I get that a large bag is a great solution for builders that need to chuck all 5kg in a mixer and then minimize waste, but I'd like to be able to use the amount I need without the rest going off/damp.

Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Feb 27, 2021

CancerCakes
Jan 10, 2006


I have seen some builders using cleaned out paint buckets (the big plastic ones contract Matt comes in). Ice cream tubs for small amounts.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



These are speed holes, they make the house go faster.

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



Is that toilet waste going to put out on to your flat roof? Clever because you've already sorted out the waterproofing and drainage from up there so it can just link in.

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr





Can you not just gently use a very long and small drill bit from the inside.

If you are going through mortar only you don't need to hammer it, just leave it on normal and take it slow and you shouldnt blow the mortar off.

Jaded Burnout posted:

How do you folks store these bulk construction powders? I get that a large bag is a great solution for builders that need to chuck all 5kg in a mixer and then minimize waste, but I'd like to be able to use the amount I need without the rest going off/damp.

I use those ikea food clips (the biggest size) and then double bag it in another food clipped clear plastic sack.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Tomarse posted:

Can you not just gently use a very long and small drill bit from the inside.

Yeah the issue is that the old pipe is still in there, so I need to remove that otherwise I need a much longer drill bit (or a very snake-like drill).

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004








Now I'm no soil doctor but "low/medium" feels good to me.

fuckingtest
Mar 31, 2001

GODDAMN YELLOW CAR!
FUCK YOU!


I thought it said "Light Orange brown slightly sandy SILLY clay" and wondered wtf.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




I was having some maybe temperature issues with my 3D printer so I grabbed a couple of spare/broken sheets of insulation I had lying around, and went at it with a knife and roll of tape to knock up a quick enclosure.




Ran a PETG print



Didn't go well a couple of times.



At the advice of the 3D printing thread I made some changes and it printed OK, "it" being a replacement knob for that one that broke on the dewalt table saw, for when I get around to selling it. Didn't get a photo of that for some reason.

Modified the 3D model I was using for the Shaper Origin for that MDF spacer/guide I made for doing the cladding, and printed it in PETG "oh poo poo I dropped it" construction orange.






Came out well, again with help from the 3D printer thread.

Also tackled that waste pipe issue, from this image you can see the issue I had, that I wasn't going to be able to drill past the length of it plus the 300mm of wall.



With it removed it'll be much easier (also, ceramic, btw).

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Yeah, PETG is always a bit finicky. My oldest printer that's kind of the worst one (the actual worst one is the one that's causing me problems at the time I make a mental list of best to worst) is sort of dedicated to it since I finally got the settings dialed in so it does that and other high temp stuff well most of the time. It's good that you're getting use out of it. I feel bad when my printers are idle but they are idle more often than I'd like. I have a ton of tabs open of stuff to print and I will eventually get to it all. Maybe.


Reddit sucks but I found their functional print subreddit to be a neat gallery of people posting their stuff that has a purpose. Sometimes it inspires me to print something or add something to my ever lengthening queue.
https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/

Hackaday often has little projects that I want to do as well, like this 9 key macro pad looks cool, too bad the raspberry pi pico is gouge-prices at the moment. Maybe by the time it gets closer to the $4 MSRP I'll finally do the project:
https://hackaday.com/2021/03/02/3d-printed-macro-pad-ditches-the-pcb-with-slick-wiring-guides/

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




£3.60 baby

https://thepihut.com/products/raspberry-pi-pico?src=raspberrypi
https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-pico?variant=32402092294227

One of the few things actually made* here.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!




Yeah, despite a few issues that the Rasperry Pi Foundation has had, it's cool that they've managed to create a solid starting point for folks to do projects with their hardware. For picking up a new hobby it's nice to have a lot of guidance and reference when you start out. Here in the US you usually get MSRP from Element 14 and a couple of other vendors (before shipping) but right now the only availability is resellers on Amazon who want $12-13 each due to low stock. I'm sure there'll be plenty more before I get to the project anyway.

edit: Heck the reprap project which is a large part of why consumer 3d printing has advanced so much in the last 10 years was invented by Adrian Bowyer who is British and received the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire which is a funny name for a medal after what California and Bill and Ted did to American English slang.
https://reprap.org/wiki/RepRap

Rexxed fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Mar 6, 2021

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Nice. Looks like he got an MBE, which is the lowest rank, but a worthy recipient nonetheless. RepRap was my first introduction to 3D printing long ago.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Final drawings are in from the structural engineer. Just need to clarify a few points and then send them off to the builders for quotes.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

Those euro style blade guards have always seemed really inconvenient to me. Do you have any plans to make a different one? I think the American Ďpork chopí ones work well and shouldnít be too hard to DIY. My old boss had a 16Ē jointer with no blade guard at all and it was fine if a bit scary at first when face joining wide stuff, but Iím much much happier now with the spinning blades covered.

I think this might the first time I've ever heard this opinion. Everyone I know who has ever used a jointer says the euro guard is more comfortable to use and safer to boot.

That said I am considering a pork chop guard since my jointer is unguarded and it's easier to make.

His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Mar 9, 2021

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Here's the tender I just sent to two construction companies that I'd previously been speaking with, along with a zip file of like a dozen PDFs.

quote:

Hello!

We have now completed the structural engineering work and are ready to get quotes for the construction of the workshop outbuilding.

Please find attached a zip file containing architectural and structural drawings. I'm happy to answer any questions.

It's a dense-block construction, with blocks as the inner and outer leaves, and a beam & block foundation, with 1m-deep trench-fill footings. Vaulted roof supported by a steel ridge beam, with simple rafters, with 3 velux skylights. Two Ancon WP2 windposts have also been spec'd by the engineer.

Solid cavity insulation in the walls, and similar roof insulation. No internal walls needed. No boarding or plaster required for the interior; they can be left as bare block. No floor insulation required.

On the outside, I'll likely be cladding it in a cement fibre cladding, but that can be quoted separately. Roof tiles in a similar material. The structural engineering docs show the FFL of the internal floor (which should be finished as a smooth concrete or similar) as finishing higher than the ground level outside, but instead they need to be at the same level.

I can provide a level marker to work to, and the landscapers can finish the outside level afterwards. There will be a channel drain directly outside the main entrance, which can either be left for the landscapers or completed yourself, depending on how we tackle the overall waste and drainage.

The landscapers will be clearing the site and fixing the boundaries before you start, but we would like to make use of the spoil from the foundation digging when levelling the ground after main construction.

For services, no special accommodation needed, as they'll be passing through the external walls after construction. I'll be doing the simple plumbing myself, and I have an electrician I'm used to working with.

Heating will be from a wood burner, but that will be supplied and installed by another company.

It would be great to get itemised quotes, though we don't need to account for every brick and block. I'm mostly interested in your labour costs, as the materials will cost what they cost and you don't really have much control over that. Please also let me know if I'm asking for something ridiculous or unnecessarily expensive.

It would be great to get itemised quotes for the following chunks of work:
1. Foundation, structure & roof, i.e. from bare ground to weathertight structure
2. Rainwater drainage/storage
3. External cladding
4. Main trenches dug for services (water & waste, power & comms, see services diagram)

If it makes sense for you to split out or combine any of these then please let me know.

Again, please let me know if you have any questions, or would like a call to talk it over.

All the best,
[Jaded Burnout]

CancerCakes
Jan 10, 2006


Why are you bothering to go for solid wall insulation then not insulating the floors? I read a study that batt insulation is better irl for cavity, because solid is so reliant on method while batt is much more forgiving.

Email looks good!

could have asked for more breakdown on the first item - normal to have a break point after foundations because of the inspection at that point.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




CancerCakes posted:

Why are you bothering to go for solid wall insulation then not insulating the floors? I read a study that batt insulation is better irl for cavity, because solid is so reliant on method while batt is much more forgiving.

My thinking was that, for a given amount of warm air in the structure, it's more likely to be in contact with the walls than it is with the floor. Added to that the (presumably) insulating effect of having a void under the floor should hopefully be enough. I don't think the whole structure will ever be fully heated in the winter.

CancerCakes posted:

could have asked for more breakdown on the first item - normal to have a break point after foundations because of the inspection at that point.

Yeah probably, hopefully they'll come back with something reasonably itemised within that. That was my intent, anyway, to get itemised within each of the numbered quotes. Perhaps I didn't communicate that well enough.

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



I'm told a third of your heat is lost through the floor. Also I'm doing a beam and block floor and with pipework running through the ventilated void beneath, it's necessary to insulate the pipework as it gets draughty down there.

I dunno though, everyone wants to tell you something?

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


An uninsulated floor becomes a heatsink and will suck heat from the room. It's a huge deal with regards to heating costs, might work in a mild climate.

EDIT: I am working off the assumption that a concrete slab is the floor.

His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Mar 10, 2021

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



Back in that period a few years back when you had to have that dumb energy efficiency survey done to sell your house in the UK (dumb because the survey was non-invasive, inaccurate, didn't save the buyer having to have the same thing done and cost you a bunch of money but expired too quickly) I got a report that told me how much heat was lost through walls, windows & doors, draughts, roof, floor etc, details were all on separate pages and I don't remember the exact numbers but I do remember they added up to more than 100%. It was also recommended I spend about £28k improving the £70k house I was selling to save the new buyer £150 a year. No it wouldn't increase the value of the house why are you asking.

Anyway, insulation priorities are almost always:
Drafts
Roof
Walls
Windows
Floor

Obviously increasing in price as you go down.

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



cakesmith handyman posted:

Obviously increasing in price as you go down.

Whilst I agree with everything you've said, for a new build workshop likes this, all insulating the floor here will cost is maybe 100mm of polystyrene or whatever across the floor. I mean not nothing but not ridiculous.

I suppose some steel or something to strengthen back up the screed sitting on it if you want heavy machinery in there.

CancerCakes
Jan 10, 2006


The builders are going to turn up with a container load of 100mm celotex, may as well get 3 more sheets and do the floor imo

Means that it could be used as a granny flat by any buyers, which is a selling point considering you would have to be pretty cold to put olds in a nursing home right now

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




The issue with insulating the floor is not so much the cost of the insulation itself, but 100mm of insulation is another 100mm lower that the structure needs to be dug out, and 100mm lower for footings. So it might be minimal, it might be significant. I'll likely have a chat with the builder nearer the time, since I'd like to do it if it's reasonable, but my instinct is it won't be.

NotJustANumber99 posted:

I suppose some steel or something to strengthen back up the screed sitting on it if you want heavy machinery in there.

They actually make insulation rated for this, which is what I was originally going to spec when I thought it was going to be slab rather than beam & block.

CancerCakes posted:

Means that it could be used as a granny flat by any buyers, which is a selling point considering you would have to be pretty cold to put olds in a nursing home right now

Any such claim would have to be made with a giant asterisk saying SUBJECT TO BUILDING CONTROL, because I'm sidestepping a lot of regulations by having it be a largely unheated space with no accommodation in it. If they wanted to put someone in there, they'd have to bring it up to code, which, among other things, is going to mean bricking up a bunch of windows.

I'm generally assuming that I'll be in a coat and gloves in the winter, with only nominal heating from the fire (and some IR heaters if I really need them). The insulation I've spec'd so far is very much a "while we're at it" without affecting the structure like the floor insulation would.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




The relevant parts:


cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



NotJustANumber99 posted:

Whilst I agree with everything you've said, for a new build workshop likes this, all insulating the floor here will cost is maybe 100mm of polystyrene or whatever across the floor. I mean not nothing but not ridiculous.

I suppose some steel or something to strengthen back up the screed sitting on it if you want heavy machinery in there.

For retrofit my list stands, building new is obviously different but more ground works can get expensive fast as JB says.

Personally I'm no expert but can something be done with the 250mm void in the plans with regards more insulation?

CancerCakes
Jan 10, 2006


Yeah, but easier to just take that layer between the beam and block and screed and turn it into insulation.

And if you insulate under the blocks then they will be inside the insulated envelope and be a thermal bridge to the walls. Still better than having a full floor thermal bridge though.

If it isn't coming across, I loving love insulation

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




CancerCakes posted:

Yeah, but easier to just take that layer between the beam and block and screed and turn it into insulation.

That layer (along with the screed/concrete) needs to move down so that the FFL matches the ground level outside. If that layer is 100mm (as pictured) then it's 150mm more digging and more footings, if it's skipped then it's 50mm more digging.

I'll talk to the builder and see what they say, after quotes are in. I would prefer insulated over not.

Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010





cakesmith handyman posted:

Back in that period a few years back when you had to have that dumb energy efficiency survey done to sell your house in the UK (dumb because the survey was non-invasive, inaccurate, didn't save the buyer having to have the same thing done and cost you a bunch of money but expired too quickly) I got a report that told me how much heat was lost through walls, windows & doors, draughts, roof, floor etc, details were all on separate pages and I don't remember the exact numbers but I do remember they added up to more than 100%. It was also recommended I spend about £28k improving the £70k house I was selling to save the new buyer £150 a year. No it wouldn't increase the value of the house why are you asking.

Anyway, insulation priorities are almost always:
Drafts
Roof
Walls
Windows
Floor

Obviously increasing in price as you go down.
that's an epc and there's cost/benefit analysis you have to do and the quality of the report will vary by assessor. generally the accepted variance is 5pts, which is a lot when you're pushing to maximise bands across a housing stock

the pricing and recommendations come from the central org and are hidden based on the assessor's opinion. the heating calc is also fundamentally different between england and scotland but i digress

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005





England does not get that cold in winter. With your specs and the fire you plan to install I don't really see a reason to care about insulating the floor and honestly it probably barely matters to insulate the walls but I suppose that will save you some on running the fire. It gets toasty doing manual labor things unless you are wanting to wear shorts in winter.

That's my hot & uninsulated take.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Typical winter low for my region is something like -5ļC, which is, what, 23ļF?

wooger
Apr 16, 2005

YOU RESENT?

NotJustANumber99 posted:

Whilst I agree with everything you've said, for a new build workshop likes this, all insulating the floor here will cost is maybe 100mm of polystyrene or whatever across the floor. I mean not nothing but not ridiculous.

Hard agree, it just seems obviously the route to go for a new build.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Thank you all for your input, I'll discuss it with the builder.

wooger
Apr 16, 2005

YOU RESENT?

cakesmith handyman posted:

Back in that period a few years back when you had to have that dumb energy efficiency survey done to sell your house in the UK (dumb because the survey was non-invasive, inaccurate, didn't save the buyer having to have the same thing done and cost you a bunch of money but expired too quickly)

This (EPC Reports) are still required, still near worthless. They last 10 years now.

They simply donít check anything of value, and are done by subhuman idiots.
They *are* useful as the only legit sq metres measurement available when buying a house (seldom listed in adverts). Except in my case, where they overstated the floor space by at least 2x.

They are also used as the basis of some rental standards - canít rent a place rated below D I think. Unless, in classic British style, you get a report saying the cost is too high to improve it, in which case you can continue being a slumlord.

Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010





wooger posted:

This (EPC Reports) are still required, still near worthless. They last 10 years now.

They simply donít check anything of value, and are done by subhuman idiots.
They *are* useful as the only legit sq metres measurement available when buying a house (seldom listed in adverts). Except in my case, where they overstated the floor space by at least 2x.

They are also used as the basis of some rental standards - canít rent a place rated below D I think. Unless, in classic British style, you get a report saying the cost is too high to improve it, in which case you can continue being a slumlord.

wooger posted:

This (EPC Reports) are still required, still near worthless. They last 10 years now.

They simply don’t check anything of value, and are done by subhuman idiots.
They *are* useful as the only legit sq metres measurement available when buying a house (seldom listed in adverts). Except in my case, where they overstated the floor space by at least 2x.

They are also used as the basis of some rental standards - can’t rent a place rated below D I think. Unless, in classic British style, you get a report saying the cost is too high to improve it, in which case you can continue being a slumlord.
they've always lasted 10y and are required for new builds, house sales, private and social renting. there's another headache for commercial premises with a different standard that lacks a mechanism to push it forward.

as far as standards it's been a slow ratchet up but does function to force private landlords to reinvest in the house. i'm only familiar with it in the social renting context where the climate change (scotland) act 2019 added these regulatory targets:

quote:

All social housing meets, or can be treated as meeting, EPC Band B (Energy Efficiency rating), or is as energy efficient as practically possible, by the end of December 2032 and within the limits of cost, technology and necessary consent.
ultimately it's targeting fuel poverty by trying to force anyone putting the running costs of crap heating systems and poorly built housing onto the tenants back onto the landlord. that shift in the dynamics is good but fundamentally the certs are pretty terrible and only the latest minor revisions have addressed carbon costs of electrically heated properties but that's mostly a retrofit issue.

new standard consultation last week as well: https://consult.gov.scot/energy-and-climate-change-directorate/new-build-heat-standard/

quote:

The Scottish Government is committed to ensuring that, from 2024, new buildings must use heating systems which produce zero direct emissions at the point of use.
which is optimistic from a supply and installation standpoint on a country-basis, hopefully the hydrogen retrofit to the gas network goes somewhere

in a similar vein there was a massive retrofit project for all fire alarm systems following grenfell, sometimes the point is less the fine detail of how scientifically valid the document produced is than it is forcing someone to go in and make a, ostensibly, independent and professional judgment that's lodged centrally. speaking of an epc in scotland's only valid if it's on this site but there's no real mechanism to stop an assessor updating a record for the wrong property, or for the property owner to know a new one has appeared

i can derail further in the diy discord if anyone's curious about the details

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



Beam and block voids can go as little as 150mm deep if you're desperate. Check with your doodz though I guess.

Interesting about the insulation rated for heavy duty uses. I've got a car port that I'm trying to work out if I can insulate under the floor so that it's sitting there ready to become a study when the time is right.

Also I haven't got there yet but the builders I've spoken to about it have been really fussy about doing the two leafs of wall under the floor. They want to use solid trench blocks for speed and ease of construction. I haven't finished figuring out the cost differential but they're expensive and I want to be absolutely sure it's ok to have the beams supported on them.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



3d print the house.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply