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jammyozzy
Dec 7, 2006

Is that a challenge?

wooger posted:

This (EPC Reports) are still required, still near worthless. They last 10 years now.

They simply donít check anything of value, and are done by subhuman idiots.
They *are* useful as the only legit sq metres measurement available when buying a house (seldom listed in adverts). Except in my case, where they overstated the floor space by at least 2x.

They are also used as the basis of some rental standards - canít rent a place rated below D I think. Unless, in classic British style, you get a report saying the cost is too high to improve it, in which case you can continue being a slumlord.

To give some perspective to our overseas friends on how useless these are: My flat in a solid-walled, converted Victorian mystery building with single-glazed sash windows and ceiling heating (warm air sinks right?) has a 'B' rating. Our electricity bill at least doubles in the winter months just trying to keep the place comfortable.

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Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!




Rexxed posted:

3d print the house.

I'm looking forward to when this is practical (yes, I know it's been done in a limited fashion.) Also looking forward to printer failures creating some awesome abstract sculptures.

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



Darchangel posted:

I'm looking forward to when this is practical (yes, I know it's been done in a limited fashion.) Also looking forward to printer failures creating some awesome abstract sculptures.

And then people having to live in them anyway.

Probably still better than the estate homes you see articles about the awful build quality on.

wooger
Apr 16, 2005

YOU RESENT?

jammyozzy posted:

To give some perspective to our overseas friends on how useless these are: My flat in a solid-walled, converted Victorian mystery building with single-glazed sash windows and ceiling heating (warm air sinks right?) has a 'B' rating. Our electricity bill at least doubles in the winter months just trying to keep the place comfortable.

You have electric heating? In the ceiling - some kind of forced air...?

Surely criminal in such an old place, I never see anywhere without radiators or underfloor.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




When altering an internal non-load-bearing wall, e.g. adding a door, what's the general rule for adding studs etc, doubling up? Is it mostly compressive force we're dealing with?

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Jaded Burnout posted:

When altering an internal non-load-bearing wall, e.g. adding a door, what's the general rule for adding studs etc, doubling up? Is it mostly compressive force we're dealing with?

A googlin' suggests I'll be fine with doubled up studs.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




"Excited" to find that the studs in this particular wall are cut 2410mm long, so I have to buy 3000mm lengths instead of 2400. Or shim 10mm on each or something. Is that safe?

iv46vi
Apr 2, 2010


Youíd usually want a wood surface on top of the door opening to nail frame and trim to. Because itís not load bearing a cross stud would be enough as opposed to a proper header.

Something like this:

https://www.pjfitz.com/diy/door-installation/how-to-frame-a-door/

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




iv46vi posted:

Youíd usually want a wood surface on top of the door opening to nail frame and trim to. Because itís not load bearing a cross stud would be enough as opposed to a proper header.

Something like this:

https://www.pjfitz.com/diy/door-installation/how-to-frame-a-door/

Yes that's true. But I will need at least one full height stud to frame out one side of the door. Effectively I have the left hand king stud already in the right place, but I'll be removing most of two bays and the left over stud to the right will be too far over. Also the manual I have tackles these without jack studs, just fixing straight into the two kings.

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



Why are you changing where a door goes?

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Here is a wall where I would like a door to be.




Here is a door where I would like a wall to be.



The reasons are basically efficient use of space in the bathroom. And before people get all antsy, it's not a load bearing wall.

First up let's remove this wack-rear end door lining that the builder was too lazy to do properly.





Need to find the joists underneath for fixing the new sole plate to. To the archives!

Looks like the joist just to the right of the brick wall is the one we'll be using.



Hopefully no underfloor right next to it?

Dang.




Will have to be careful.

Looking at the existing lovely framing against that nib wall.




This faint line on the floor is I reckon the builder's mark for where the joist is.



Stud finder agrees.



OK so here's the bays I'm (mostly) removing.



Measured and sketched up the (rather large) patch to cut out.



I was literally about to turn on the OMT when I realised I'd marked up the wrong two bays. I'm going to pin that on early morning brain.

Moved one bay over and did it again, then hashed out the area I'll be cutting so I don't make a mistake. Also added marks for tabs I want to leave behind in case the boarding isn't attached firmly enough.




First cut.




Looks good, let's keep going.



Not perfect but it doesn't have to be.





Seems solid enough, so cut the tabs and remaining areas covered by timbers from the outside.




Mark up the to-be cripple stud. Bottom mark is the plasterboard line. Middle mark is the top of the stud that's staying attached to the boards. Top mark is where the new header goes.




Also marked other cuts and went at them with a recip saw.




The sole plate was an absolute bastard to cut for some reason. Not even a nails issue!




Cleaned up this extra plaster (forgot to get an "after" photo).



Moved into place. Please excuse the lovely fixings, I could barely swing a hammer at this point so it's just enough to keep everything stable and aligned until I can come back to it.



New rough framing will go here.



Doorway.





Wall ready for filler and painting. It was owed a final coat anyway.


Just Winging It
Jan 19, 2012

The buck stops at my ass


So the piece of wall you cut out to make the new doorway fits nicely into the space of the old doorway you want to close up? That's really neat.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Just Winging It posted:

So the piece of wall you cut out to make the new doorway fits nicely into the space of the old doorway you want to close up? That's really neat.

Only because I measured to make it so. But yeah the door openings are close enough of a standard and have enough wiggle room that I may not have to increase the hole any (though it may need to be a touch taller).

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



The ol' real life cut and paste. Nice!

bred
Oct 24, 2008


I've seen this before...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S328nyn8Dc8

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Yep that's about right. Except my photos of Diana are already headless.

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



It's tidy and all but really not on to not sledgehammer through the bit you're taking out. Or better still run through it.

devicenull
May 30, 2007



Grimey Drawer

If you plan on doing any significant amount of drywall work, get yourself a rotozip. For example, in that doorway you'd just have shoved it through the wall near one of the sides, moved it to the side until you hit the stud, and just followed the stud all the way down.

It really comes in handy when you've got a bunch of boxes/vents in a wall. This video describes it way better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPFi0Dvui-I#t=58s

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




devicenull posted:

If you plan on doing any significant amount of drywall work, get yourself a rotozip. For example, in that doorway you'd just have shoved it through the wall near one of the sides, moved it to the side until you hit the stud, and just followed the stud all the way down.

It really comes in handy when you've got a bunch of boxes/vents in a wall. This video describes it way better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPFi0Dvui-I#t=58s

That's pretty much what I did with the multitool. Not quite as easy as that thing looks, but cuts through plaster fast as anything, so I'm not sure the cost would be worth it.

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



the multitool will cut into things on its edge I guess, whereas thats basically just a drill. Interesting certainly but would it not work just using a drill already plunged through the plasterboard?

Slugworth
Feb 18, 2001

If two grown men can't make a pervert happy for a few minutes in order to watch a film about zombies, then maybe we should all just move to Iran!


NotJustANumber99 posted:

the multitool will cut into things on its edge I guess, whereas thats basically just a drill. Interesting certainly but would it not work just using a drill already plunged through the plasterboard?
The rotozip has a bit designed for lateral cutting. That being said, rotozips are fast and all, but you couldn't invent a better way to turn drywall into a cloud of dust that covers every square inch of the space it's being used in. Multitools and sawzalls make way less dust, and don't throw it nearly as far.

devicenull
May 30, 2007



Grimey Drawer

NotJustANumber99 posted:

the multitool will cut into things on its edge I guess, whereas thats basically just a drill. Interesting certainly but would it not work just using a drill already plunged through the plasterboard?

I think the only difference is the bit - the rotozip bits cut on the very tip, but then there's a 1/4 inch part or so that's just smooth steel, so you don't manage to mangle the box you're cutting around.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




NotJustANumber99 posted:

the multitool will cut into things on its edge I guess

Not very well, though it depends on the blade, they're really all about plunge cutting. That said, you can tilt the tool at an angle and run it along a line/joist/stud.

CancerCakes
Jan 10, 2006


Rotozips seem to be more of a US thing than UK. because we generally skim everywhere neatness around sockets is less of a concern.

That said my major bug bear is bad plastering around light sockets.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




CancerCakes posted:

Rotozips seem to be more of a US thing than UK. because we generally skim everywhere neatness around sockets is less of a concern.

That said my major bug bear is bad plastering around light sockets.

In my case everything was skimmed first and then all sockets/boxes cut out, so neatness was I guess about the same concern, i.e. as much leeway as the cover for the socket gives.

ChickenOfTomorrow
Nov 11, 2012

god damn it, you've got to be kind





please tell me that once the wall was cut you burst through it like a wrestler making a dramatic entrance

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




ChickenOfTomorrow posted:

please tell me that once the wall was cut you burst through it like a wrestler making a dramatic entrance

That would've been rad but no I wanted it intact. I did help the sole plate along with some steel toe boots though.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Some tidying up to do.








The last one particularly annoying because the blade is jammed in my recip for some reason and the one in there is useless for cutting that angle, so I had to do it by hand.

Cut the new header deliberately a couple mm too long so it can wedge into place.



I hate nails. I hate putting them in, taking them out, buying them, storing them. gently caress nails.



Put in these braces, slightly for structure but mostly as something to more firmly attach the plasterboard to.




Putting screws through the sole plate into the floor was the most tense part, but I don't see any leaks so I didn't hit a pipe.

Intended to use construction adhesive to attach the plasterboard but the stuff I have has gone off and is garbo, so I'll need to come back with some screws.



Just got a bit of plasterboard trimming to do and one jack stud left then I can put the lining back.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




With 4 months notice of an early/mid April date and regular chasing for the last 5 weeks, the landscaper has finally set some actual dates, and the best they can do is 27th of April "subject to potential supplier shortages". I won't be going with them for the final landscaping after the builders have been in.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Need to trim back this raggedy edge to make room for the door lining.



Cut along it, then taped so I could cut the ends without it falling and smashing, because I'll reuse this piece to fill a gap on the wall.



Time to break out the packers.



Lining wedged in place and held at the top.




Given how it looked in the other doorway, no surprise how out of square it is.



Lots of packing to square it up. Will probably need to redo this slightly, but for now it's good enough.




And there we go; adequate.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Looks good! I really never thought about the difficulty in framing doors so they're square and level until I saw some youtube renovation stuff and renovation threads here on SA. I guess it's the kind of thing you take for granted until you have to fix it or do it.

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!




Making *anything* square and level takes more effort than most realize, and still fewer actually put said effort into it.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




First workshop quote is in.

quote:

We are pleased to tender for your garden workshop as to your drawings and specifications.
This estimate does not include any electrical, pluming work. And footings dug to A depth of 1.5 deep.
Ground works, & service trenches,
Blockwork, block and beam, concrete finish, fixed steels. £39í600.00
External cedral cement cladding, & roofing. £19í800.00

Total cost labour and materials £58í300.00

Loezi
Dec 18, 2012

Never buy the cheap stuff


CancerCakes
Jan 10, 2006


HAHA that is a nuts, probably not including VAT

What the gently caress steels are you having? Do they mean catnic lintels?

Just dig the trenches your self, supervise the pour then find a brickie to throw up the structure in a week. You could probably do it for 6K, then roof it yourself (you've got the gear already).

Andy (Gosforth Handyman on youtube) is literally doing this now, check out his most recent videos.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




CancerCakes posted:

HAHA that is a nuts, probably not including VAT

Yeah tell me about it. I'm having the guy round tomorrow to go over it all in detail. But I ain't payin' that. £30k+VAT all-in I would accept, but 60 is way up.

CancerCakes posted:

What the gently caress steels are you having? Do they mean catnic lintels?

No, there will be lintels but there's also a full-length ridge beam and two windposts.

CancerCakes posted:

Just dig the trenches your self, supervise the pour then find a brickie to throw up the structure in a week. You could probably do it for 6K, then roof it yourself (you've got the gear already).

Andy (Gosforth Handyman on youtube) is literally doing this now, check out his most recent videos.

I'm giving it serious thought.

CancerCakes posted:

Andy (Gosforth Handyman on youtube) is literally doing this now, check out his most recent videos.

Thanks for the pointer. I also coincidentally found this guy when I was looking at what beam & block was all about, and it seems to hit a lot of the same features that I'd need to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIDgcXIMND4

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



look you've seen what skimping can end up with so far, pay the money. Maybe give him a bit more.

CancerCakes
Jan 10, 2006


He will have priced it on a £ per m2 on his normal rate based on extensions in the area. The value of an extension job is far higher because it raises the house price a lot, and the builder can essentially take a cut of the price increase rather than going to the bother to actually calculate the cost to him of labour and materials, plus his time, plus his profit. That works with extensions, because everyone is doing it on mortgages anyway. Good luck getting him to budge on price, builders are really busy at the moment and if he doesn't get his £3k a week profit from you he will get it on the extension round the corner.

If you want to ACTUALLY know what the cost is, send the plans to an estimating service like HBXL, that will tell you what the mat costs are, and I think they do a per diem labour cost estimate.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004




Had the builder round, and after some discussion came to the conclusion that I've been once again caught right in that valley between "shed" and "bungalow", similar to the issues I had with a lot of the building regulations.

The structural engineer has to follow either the building regulations or BSI standards (which are stricter) in order to be in compliance with their insurance, and because of the history of construction in the UK, there's nothing in the regs about stick-framed structures other than this:


Which, tldr, says "We've heard tell of these 'timber houses' and I'm sure they're well and good but we do things with brick here".

There *are* a couple of British Standards / EU documents for timber construction, but they're paywalled.

So when I originally suggested to the seng that I was open to either blockwork or stick framing (and had drawn assuming blockwork because that's what I was familiar with), it's perhaps no surprise that he opted for blockwork.

Long story short, the design is way overbuilt (as some of you pointed out, though it is definitely more than just a shed in terms of structural requirements) and that's where the surprise 2x cost has come from.

After further discussion and me rechecking the permitted development rules, I think I can get away with a flat roof after all, which also reduces costs.

I felt like the guy was also inclined to bullshit a little when discussion went out of his area of expertise (seemed to suggest that it was going to be very expensive to run a single 4" waste pipe about 50m (it's not) so I'm going to pull back the spec a lot and try to keep it just to a) footings & foundation, b) main structure, c) weather-tightening.

He already structures his agreements in the way I'd prefer, i.e. upfront payment for (and delivery of) all materials, then a payment when the foundation is done, then another when weather tight, and a final completion payment. He reckons about 3 weeks if done by stick construction (6 for block).

We did also discuss SIP but will probably forego it this time.

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CancerCakes
Jan 10, 2006


Sounds positive anyway, good job. Are you going fully flat roof or monopitch?

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