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Kassad
Nov 12, 2005

It's about time.
Why bother joining them when you've been importing their ideas into your own party?

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Agnosticnixie
Jan 6, 2015
Yeah, Les Republicains already go full FN the moment the FN isn't doing the runoffs, I wouldn't be surprised if a Macron-Melenchon runoff hadn't seen Macron run hard to the right like Sarko in 2012.

R. Mute
Jul 27, 2011

Kassad posted:

Still works, Louis XIV died of gangrene. It took about two weeks.

https://twitter.com/ait35736313/status/882124051820367873

That bit from yesterday's speech is extra nice. Let's replace concrete welfare programs with meaningless buzzwords, this will solve everything.
Help my French isn't that good I can't seem to find the substance in this speech.

Kassad
Nov 12, 2005

It's about time.
It's the last sentence: "It is not the French that have to be weaned off public interventionism, but the State itself".

Translation: The loving peons love their welfare state too much for us to touch it directly, so we'll starve the beast instead.

Bulbo
Nov 4, 2012

Kurtofan posted:

what are the odds manuel valls will join the front national in the next 10 years

He's ready to write for Valeurs Actuelles. I'm looking forward to his book with Zemmour.


Kassad posted:

It's the last sentence: "It is not the French that have to be weaned off public interventionism, but the State itself".

Translation: The loving peons love their welfare state too much for us to touch it directly, so we'll starve the beast instead.

It's for our own good though! It's all about "empowering" and giving back "autonomy". Are you against autonomy M. Kassad?

lost in postation
Aug 14, 2009

Can't wait to be empowered right into a ditch!

At least strike season promises to be spectacular this year.

Flowers For Algeria
Dec 3, 2005

I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.


lost in postation posted:

Can't wait to be empowered right into a ditch!

At least strike season promises to be spectacular this year.

Inch'allah

Edit ever since I heard he was back i've been in an mc solaar mood deal with it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E76VlShWHQ

Flowers For Algeria fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Jul 4, 2017

Kassad
Nov 12, 2005

It's about time.
Edouard Philippe literally said that France is addicted to public spending. God help us.

Edit: Here's a list.

quote:

Public spending must be cut

French Prime Minister Edouard Philippe told parliament Tuesday that the public debt, currently running at 2.147 trillion euros, was "intolerable".

"We are dancing on a volcano that is rumbling ever louder," Philippe told the newly elected National Assembly, announcing plans to wean the French off their "addiction to public spending".

France to meet EU deficit targets

Philippe also reiterated the government's ambition of bringing the deficit within an EU limit of 3.0 percent of GDP this year.

[...]

Reimbursement of glasses, dental healthcare and hearing aids

The prime minister has said that from now until the end of the five-year term, French people will no longer pay for glasses, dental healthcare and hearing aids.

Some social benefits to increase

The prime minister laid out plans to increase benefits for disabled adults and raise the minimum benefit for the elderly from 2018.

France to launch 50-bn-euro investment plan

France will launch "a grand investment plan" worth 50 billion euros ($56.7 billion) in areas including the environment, health, agriculture and transport.

Stressing the importance of "investing in the sectors of the future", Philippe told parliament that the package would also focus on developing skills.


:raise:

Kassad fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Jul 4, 2017

Kurtofan
Feb 16, 2011

hon hon hon
grim

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Kassad posted:

Edouard Philippe literally said that France is addicted to public spending. God help us.

Edit: Here's a list.



:raise:

seems ... contradictory?

Kassad
Nov 12, 2005

It's about time.
It does. God only knows how they're planning to pull it off, although I have a feeling the answer is gonna be "Just do more with less! :D"

Oh yeah, Macron promised to do this as well:

https://twitter.com/EPhilippePM/status/882234126375563265

ElNarez
Nov 4, 2009

blowfish posted:

seems ... contradictory?

You cut social programs, and you give the money in tax breaks and subsidies to big corporations. And then the wealth trickles down. Some day.

But hey, there's one public company bringing back services!

https://twitter.com/LEXPRESS/status/882342550878777344

That's right, collaboration is BACK, BABY

BobMorane
Oct 25, 2010

I still can't believe this stuff is back on the table... It's going to cost a few billions, spread limited ressources even thinner and none of the concerned administrations want it (especially not the army). As if having teenagers dick around for a few months post bac is going to turn them into model citizens, whatever that means...

Bulbo
Nov 4, 2012
https://twitter.com/fdestais/status/882356172237524992/photo/1

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


So wait how is it that a dude who's supposedly the caricature of a groomed-from-birth elite bureaucrat is supposed to be starving the state in the bathtub and bringing about libertopia?

Or is it just poor people and unionized labor that gets drowned in that bathtub?

Flowers For Algeria
Dec 3, 2005

I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.


Liberalism is an incredibly powerful force, able to co-opt and subvert even the legendary French bureaucracy and its bureaucrats.

High-level civil servants leaving the public sector to profit from sweet private money has become so commonplace that we even have a word for it ("pantoufler"). These people don't give a poo poo about the State and will gladly kill it with a thousand cuts. Macron is one of those.

Hazzard
Mar 16, 2013
I'm assuming the Spectator is a correct newspaper on this site. I saw this initially through Facebook and can't remember where.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/emmanuel-macrons-restoration-french-monarchy/#

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40483744

Does this worry anyone else? I'm keeping some tabs on French politics and this looks somewhat worrying, especially how close together these two bits of news are.

Macron looks like a very scary politician. He was the Hillary to Le Pen's Trump. And I can't find it as an image, but the cover photo over the video on the BBC article looks too much like the image of a dictatorship, or a an Absolutist Monarch and I think that was deliberate.

Edit: Found it:

Flowers For Algeria
Dec 3, 2005

I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.


Yeah we loving love pomp, especially when it comes to Presidents. This image is par for the course. The culotted clowns in a row are also always there in the Assemblée Nationale IIRC.

On July 14th, if you care enough to pay attention, you'll also witness another pretty backwards and dumb scene: a huge military parade along the Champs-Elysées, complete with fighter planes and poo poo. I'm actually pretty sure that it will stir Trump's loins so much that I wouldn't be surprised if he decides he wants a parade for the next 4th of July.

(But yeah there's a definite authoritarian streak in Macron's style and in the institutional reforms he advocates)

Bulbo
Nov 4, 2012

Hazzard posted:

I'm assuming the Spectator is a correct newspaper on this site. I saw this initially through Facebook and can't remember where.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/emmanuel-macrons-restoration-french-monarchy/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40483744

Does this worry anyone else? I'm keeping some tabs on French politics and this looks somewhat worrying, especially how close together these two bits of news are.

Macron looks like a very scary politician. He was the Hillary to Le Pen's Trump.

He's not going to abolish the republic and reinstate the monarchy if that's your concern. And there's actually only one bit of news here, his speech in front of Congress.

That said, the instutional reform is worrying and would mark (another) increase of the executive power at the expanse of the legislative branch. But since it's only been presented in the broadest of strokes and there's no timetable worry hasn't yet coalesced into outrage.
Also it's the holydays, no one's got time for that poo poo when there's sun to soak in.


Hazzard posted:

And I can't find it as an image, but the cover photo over the video on the BBC article looks too much like the image of a dictatorship, or a an Absolutist Monarch and I think that was deliberate.

Edit: Found it:


The Vth republic does delierately ape the monarchy's aesthetic but that's not a new developement, it's been that way since De Gaulle.

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


To what extent is the modern Fifth Republican state/bureaucracy a creation of the Vichy period, in institutional terms? I know a good number of high-level collaborators like Papon et al continued postwar, but how about the institutions rather than people? I just read a book about how Japan's postwar economy was basically created during the war, with various state planning bureacracies that were instrumental in the postwar being more or less continuations of agencies created in the 1930s. I know the Third Republic was supposed to have been a laissez-faire/free market thing, and postwar France heavily diritiste/state-planned. Is it pretty much the same story, that the planning-state was a continuation of, or at least was created by, wartime fascism?

Any good academic books (in english) on the subject?

Kassad
Nov 12, 2005

It's about time.
In fact, here's a nearly identical photo with Sarkozy from when he was president:

R. Mute
Jul 27, 2011

Bulbo posted:

The Vth republic does delierately ape the monarchy's aesthetic but that's not a new developement, it's been that way since De Gaulle.
Maybe it is time for a sixth republic...

Kurtofan
Feb 16, 2011

hon hon hon
hollande was very hard to take seriously in these situations

R. Mute
Jul 27, 2011

Kassad posted:

In fact, here's a nearly identical photo with Sarkozy from when he was president:


That photographer sure didn't like Sarkozy

Kassad
Nov 12, 2005

It's about time.
That's just what happens when you're (relatively) short and near guys that are selected based on how tall they are. See also: Napoleon.

Toplowtech
Aug 31, 2004

Hazzard posted:

And I can't find it as an image, but the cover photo over the video on the BBC article looks too much like the image of a dictatorship, or a an Absolutist Monarch and I think that was deliberate.
Lol historically our first elected president (second republic) used to call himself the Prince President (Napoleon III). Then he made himself Emperor.
Also even the most bourgeois of the French republics always had a big boner for the military, do not let your Hollywood clichés indoctrination tell you otherwise.

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Jul 5, 2017

Kurtofan
Feb 16, 2011

hon hon hon

Toplowtech posted:

Lol historically our first elected president (second republic) used to call himself the Prince President (Napoleon III). Then he made himself Emperor.

Cavaignac was the first Hillary

Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jul 5, 2017

R. Mute
Jul 27, 2011

Kassad posted:

That's just what happens when you're (relatively) short and near guys that are selected based on how tall they are. See also: Napoleon.
The trick is to take the picture like they took the one of Macron - angling up at the subject rather than down. Macron's not that tall either, but it doesn't pop out like it does for Sarkozy, more than the 9cm height difference warrants.

Toplowtech
Aug 31, 2004

Kurtofan posted:

Cavaignac was the first Hillary
Thiers would have been a loving buzzfeed editor.

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005

Kurtofan posted:

hollande was very hard to take seriously in these situations



This is actually what the French version of Where's Waldo looks like.

Flowers For Algeria
Dec 3, 2005

I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.


icantfindaname posted:

To what extent is the modern Fifth Republican state/bureaucracy a creation of the Vichy period, in institutional terms? I know a good number of high-level collaborators like Papon et al continued postwar, but how about the institutions rather than people? I just read a book about how Japan's postwar economy was basically created during the war, with various state planning bureacracies that were instrumental in the postwar being more or less continuations of agencies created in the 1930s. I know the Third Republic was supposed to have been a laissez-faire/free market thing, and postwar France heavily diritiste/state-planned. Is it pretty much the same story, that the planning-state was a continuation of, or at least was created by, wartime fascism?

Any good academic books (in english) on the subject?

Approximately 0%.
The Fifth Republic dates back to 1958. The Fourth Republic dates back to 1946, and it was fully created by a Constituent Assembly (in effect it was a parliamentary regime much like the Third Republic, but with an actual constitutional framework which the Third lacked).

Hell, I mean, the most vague notion in our constitutional jurisprudence, the "principes fondamentaux reconnus par les lois de la République" ("fundamental principles that are recognized by the laws of the Republic", a bunch of liberties that are not mentioned in the Constitution but upheld as principles with a constitutional value) exclude laws that come from Vichy.
And the only significant piece of administrative jurisprudence I can think of that comes from Vichy times is the decision enshrining the right for a civil servant to disobey an order if the order is illegal and threatens the good operation of the service. The bureaucracy far predates Vichy, and the institutions are pretty removed from Vichy.


EDIT: also interventionism was pretty important during the Third, especially starting in the 20's.

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


Have anything to read about the rise of interventionism/dirigisme in the pre-Vichy Third Republic, in that case? Actually pretty much anything about interwar France

lost in postation
Aug 14, 2009

Toplowtech posted:

Thiers would have been a loving buzzfeed editor.

I always picture Valls when I think about Thiers. Valls wouldn't have hesitated one second before executing all the communards.

Flowers For Algeria
Dec 3, 2005

I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.


icantfindaname posted:

Have anything to read about the rise of interventionism/dirigisme in the pre-Vichy Third Republic, in that case? Actually pretty much anything about interwar France

Sorry, no. All I might have somewhere in a HDD is a bunch of notes from a class about Economic Interventionism in France, but it'd be in French and mostly focused on the administrative side of economic interventionism (what was legal, what became legal through jurisprudence, and stuff like that). And French administrative law is abstruse and stupid. I'll look around. MP me if I forget about you.

lost in postation posted:

I always picture Valls when I think about Thiers. Valls wouldn't have hesitated one second before executing all the communards.

Valls liked to think of himself as some sort of reincarnation of Clemenceau. The man who had the military open fire on the striking coal miners.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Flowers For Algeria posted:

Yeah we loving love pomp, especially when it comes to Presidents. This image is par for the course. The culotted clowns in a row are also always there in the Assemblée Nationale IIRC.

On July 14th, if you care enough to pay attention, you'll also witness another pretty backwards and dumb scene: a huge military parade along the Champs-Elysées, complete with fighter planes and poo poo. I'm actually pretty sure that it will stir Trump's loins so much that I wouldn't be surprised if he decides he wants a parade for the next 4th of July.

(But yeah there's a definite authoritarian streak in Macron's style and in the institutional reforms he advocates)
Macron will have to upstage him the year after by riding in front of the parade in a golden chariot, followed by imprisoned union leaders.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

lol can't wait for Macron to deliver France to the Nazi FN on a silver platter thanks to him being a neolib fuckhead who insists on destroying people's lives instead of trying to fix them. Talk about a Jupiter sized rear end in a top hat.

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747

Al-Saqr posted:

lol can't wait for Macron to deliver France to the Nazi FN on a silver platter thanks to him being a neolib fuckhead who insists on destroying people's lives instead of trying to fix them. Talk about a Jupiter sized rear end in a top hat.

We told you bro, we warned you about Macron.

Flowers For Algeria
Dec 3, 2005

I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.


Al-Saqr posted:

lol can't wait for Macron to deliver France to the Nazi FN on a silver platter thanks to him being a neolib fuckhead who insists on destroying people's lives instead of trying to fix them. Talk about a Jupiter sized rear end in a top hat.

He won't because we of the Real Left will loving destroy the FN by being loud and active in the next 5 years.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

Flowers For Algeria posted:

He won't because we of the Real Left will loving destroy the FN by being loud and active in the next 5 years.

here's hoping!

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Kassad
Nov 12, 2005

It's about time.
https://twitter.com/PaulAveline/status/882552190748983296

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