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I'm the weirdo that can appreciate both approaches.
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Feb 25, 2021 21:10
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That's insane to me because D2 was all about running endgame, once you were done with the story there was literally nothing else to do except endless Baal/Pindle runs to this very day. Just because you did not experience that for yourself 20 years ago doesn't mean it didn't exist.
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Feb 25, 2021 21:12
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Lots of people like tons of loot dropping, but filtering out the crap that you wouldn't ever conceivably use would be a bonus IMO. Path of Exile is probably pretty good at this but I never really mastered the loot filter settings. Blizzard of course will never implement anything similar so the only question will be, "how rare?" e: yeah, if you don't have uniques or really interesting rares in all your slots, I'm not sure if you have really reached the endgame of D2. It doesn't take very many Baal runs to replace your blue items. vvvv not addressing you, just the general idea of "I finished D2" without doing a dozen loot runs of endgame bosses/areas palindrome fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Feb 25, 2021 |
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Feb 25, 2021 21:13
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if you're addressing me, I don't care about the"end game" of D2
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Feb 25, 2021 21:13
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I'm not!
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Feb 25, 2021 21:14
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I also don't care about the "end game" of diablo 2. Going from act 1 normal to act 5 hell is a full length game. I can't remember exactly how long it takes, but probably somewhere in the region of 30-50 hours, and it has solid replay value since there are many different classes and builds. Why must the experience be stretched out to 500 hours of pointless gear farming?
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Feb 25, 2021 21:19
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Mymla posted:I also don't care about the "end game" of diablo 2. Going from act 1 normal to act 5 hell is a full length game. I can't remember exactly how long it takes, but probably somewhere in the region of 30-50 hours, and it has solid replay value since there are many different classes and builds. Why must the experience be stretched out to 500 hours of pointless gear farming? because it is fun
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Feb 25, 2021 21:20
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I guess because number go up. Whether that is a 1 hour or 1,000 hour journey is up to the individual, but I think taking a victory lap after beating the game to get some extra stat bonuses is something that many players are interested in. You can set down the game after you beat the story, sure, but I assume most people are at least a little interested in the loot treadmill. Maybe if you never played multiplayer or had any interest in measuring up to other players you would not feel this way. It's fun to PVP or do runs with other people and/or showcase your ridiculous unarmed barbarian shout-only build.
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Feb 25, 2021 21:22
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The entire premise of the genre is make numbers go up loot treadmill for people wanting to sink 100x of hours into a game. e: Happy Noodle Boy posted:Making numbers go up is insanely loving cool This is why D3 is the best. Quadrillion damage crits are the biggest numbers. Dameius fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Feb 25, 2021 |
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Feb 25, 2021 21:42
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Making numbers go up is insanely loving cool
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Feb 25, 2021 21:44
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Dameius posted:The entire premise of the genre is make numbers go up loot treadmill for people wanting to sink 100x of hours into a game. there's room for games that let you get all that satisfaction but only take 10-20 hours, and arguably the design of that portion is more important for grabbing players and making sales
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Feb 25, 2021 21:53
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quote:Homing Pads might become an issue for solo pushing as you can keep the 65% Damage Reduction up almost all the time but just spamming the teleport town button (T) while performing other skills or spamming force move. oh my god, please do not have this be part of the meta, I am begging you.
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Feb 25, 2021 21:59
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Lots' o' loot, Lots' o' fun.
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Feb 25, 2021 21:59
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Do you think D4 will bring back the real money auction house? 
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Feb 25, 2021 22:01
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Rinkles posted:I'm the weirdo that can appreciate both approaches. Scarcity is not something that has ever made d2 good. It lacks scarcity in a lot of ways with spirit runeword, stealth runeword, etc. Lots of the "scarcity" image people have is not understanding how to efficiently play at some point in its past. Only some of the highrunes & their runewords, which came really late in the game's life, are scarce. And their scarcity is bad design that most players circumvent in one way or another (dropping $2 on rmt, playing with nodrop 0 to simulate 8p, playing a sorc or non-enigma class, trading, cheating them in, etc). I don't think anyone hails it as good design that getting an enigma on bnet requires rmt/botting/jsp while most classes require playing with a sorc without it. Most people who like d2 a lot have played a ton of d3 and like at least part of it also. Everyone wants decent drop rates and to be playing the funnest form of the game as soon as possible. Khorne fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Feb 25, 2021 |
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Feb 25, 2021 22:01
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Do you think D4 will bring back the real money auction house? It has trading, there will be rmt.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:03
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I like having as many skeletons and revived minions on the screen as possible. Not because they are necessarily doing anything productive, but because it is rad as hell.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:04
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Yep, having the most skeletons is a pretty good gameplay loop, they need to make sure to include that in future games. If there's trading in D4 then I look forward to d4jsp.org and whatever newfangled apps/extensions that will let people trade/dupe/scam. I wonder if the new generation knows about "hold ALT, put items on ground, and press F4" to dupe.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:07
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Blocking the tunnels in act 2 with skeletons was good.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:08
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Blocking the tunnels in act 2 with skeletons was good. all the best gaming things are dead from optimization
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Feb 25, 2021 22:09
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Swilo posted:there's room for games that let you get all that satisfaction but only take 10-20 hours, and arguably the design of that portion is more important for grabbing players and making sales I agree to a point. I would argue that you don't get the same satisfaction, but that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't design for the shorter cycle players. Diablo Immortal seems optimally positioned to fill that niche, it's own baggage aside. And you can have D4 give something for people who want a smaller engagement window, but it is unfathomable that D4 wouldn't be designed for the 2,000 hour /played base, especially given all the signalling they've done to bring back the D2 > D3 crowd who left the franchise for PoE or other genres all together.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:09
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8 player necromancer only games with dial-up modems were the true diablo experience.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:09
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I was quite disappointed that Diablo 3 only had 4 players maximum. It's a sequel and a decade later damnit, how can you have inferior multiplayer? That's the state of Blizzard now. Oh, and no cool /players 8 switches or anything like that. Just GUI for babies. 
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Feb 25, 2021 22:11
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Angry Lobster posted:8 player necromancer only games with dial-up modems were the true diablo experience.  The skelly mages were so useless, but they were so hilarious to just filling the screen up with a light show of useless magic. Fake Edit: I would kill any skelly mage that was not cold because they were literally the only useful ones.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:17
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Mesadoram posted:Fake Edit: I would kill any skelly mage that was not cold because they were literally the only useful ones. 
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Feb 25, 2021 22:20
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D3 has loot scarcity in the form of optimized ancients and primals. Working your way through to nightmare/hell in d2 is sort of like getting a d3 built up with a set and enough supporting items to function. D2 endgame is massacring pindleskin for hours and D3 is fishing for rifts that aren't full of wasps. It's the same loot treadmill with a different skin. Both have their positives and negatives still. Today's D3 fits its niche perfectly but it's not for everyone. Personally, I've only missed finishing out the journey on a handful of seasons. Mustached Demon fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Feb 25, 2021 |
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Feb 25, 2021 22:25
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In one of the dev blogs they said they wanted D4 to be somewhere between the complexity of D2 and D3. I'm curious which one people think was more complex than the other.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:30
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In D3 you can get gear that's just as good and at a very good drop rate without ever having to fish for rifts. There's at least more variety when you're farming for stuff instead of doing the same boss ad nauseum.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:50
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Mustached Demon posted:D3 has loot scarcity in the form of optimized ancients and primals Those aren't needed unless you're leaderboard chasing though? It's hardly the same thing as D2.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:51
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I think D2 is a little more complicated just by nature of obscure mechanics such as deadly strike, crushing blow etc that aren't well explained in the game. You also have enemies with hard stops in the form of multiple immunities requiring you to diversify your build, play in a group, or equip something that gives the conviction aura. D3 has more skill possibilities and interesting unique effects but the debate I think is whether that sort of thing should moved to different types of systems or ones that require more hard points that are not as easily respecced. I'm kind of bored with critical strike mechanics whether it be D2 or PoE although I'm sure neither of them will remove these. PoE offers more options there, but are rarely the min max "best way".
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Feb 25, 2021 23:23
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Kyrosiris posted:Those aren't needed unless you're leaderboard chasing though? It's hardly the same thing as D2. Do you need a completely decked out character to beat Baal on hell? poo poo you don't even need a perfectly geared character to beat the ultra mega Diablo for that charm. Edit: I can't find the original Poor man's tale of abusing d2 damage mechanics (like crushing blow) to beat Uber Diablo. Mustached Demon fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Feb 26, 2021 |
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Feb 25, 2021 23:58
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stev posted:It's madness. Diablo 3 got good the moment they decided to rain loot on the player 24/7, how do they not get that? Borderlands 2 improved the same way. I remember finding a legendary SMG in a random dumpster right after they tweaked drop rates, it was great.
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Feb 26, 2021 04:28
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imo D3's loot drop rate is (or was, I haven't played in a bit and they went full "let's gently caress with stuff" so I don't know if it's changed) like nearly exactly perfect because if you went solo into a season with a build in mind, the loot dropped fast enough that you just about got all the pieces in place and had enough time to grind some upgrades/ancients/BIS stats until things started feeling stale right on schedule with finishing the season so there was always the "aw hell yeah" curve of getting any legos while levelling, then getting a couple of actually useful ones, and then getting the ones you needed, and then getting a couple upgrades, and then you were done and put it down feeling good about being done
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Feb 26, 2021 05:39
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Oh hey thread, nice to see you in Games I got back into D3 this month and really enjoyed it. I decided to try to race to do as much of season 22 as I could before it ended, rolled a wizard, and hit GRift ~45ish before I started to flag. I really enjoyed the pace of scaling and loot dropping. Getting meaningful and interesting upgrades every night was cool. I finished the Seasonal Chapters 1-4 but couldn't finish the next achievement collection purely due to the class set dungeon-The only part that kind of dulled it for me was that the hydra set was just so OP compared to any of the other sets that I tried, but didn't have a dungeon, and I didn't feel like radically altering my build and collecting a new set of legendaries in the last couple days. But yeah super looking forward to S23 now and kind of excited about the reworked Firebird, I do love laser beaming things to death. re: drop rates, I saved every legendary in case I wanted to cube it, and only sharded when I hit a third copy of things. After three weeks of playing I had pretty much stuffed all bank tabs full and was at the point that legendaries weren't really feeling super cool to get anymore, more like an inventory hassle. But that's a minor side effect to what was otherwise a really engaging grind. I feel like drawing it out would make things substantially less interesting, and the seasonal resets keep it from getting stale pretty effectively. Sarsapariller fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Feb 26, 2021 |
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Feb 26, 2021 07:28
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Messed around with some of the new items on PTR. Firebird's seems like it could still use a damage adjustment. The way the set bonus works you have to keep up Disintegrate constantly, meaning you'd probably want to go Energy Twisters, but you don't seem to preserve the ignited damage bonus on tornadoes that are generated passively. And your Combustion stacks fall off way too quick to just stand there casting. Needs work. On the other hand, the reworked Rathma set seems really strong and is basically a brand new pet build for Necro. In practice it works a lot like WD Zuni's but spamming Army of the Dead instead of fetishes. Biggest problem is that you'd naturally want to use Nayr's Black Death in the cube but all the Poison runes for Bone Spirit / Skeletons / Revive / Army kinda suck.
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Feb 26, 2021 11:15
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Making numbers go up is insanely loving cool Dangerous overlap between this thread and cspam economics thread. Sarsapariller posted:I got back into D3 this month and really enjoyed it. I decided to try to race to do as much of season 22 as I could before it ended, rolled a wizard, and hit GRift ~45ish before I started to flag. I really enjoyed the pace of scaling and loot dropping. Getting meaningful and interesting upgrades every night was cool. I finished the Seasonal Chapters 1-4 but couldn't finish the next achievement collection purely due to the class set dungeon-The only part that kind of dulled it for me was that the hydra set was just so OP compared to any of the other sets that I tried, but didn't have a dungeon, and I didn't feel like radically altering my build and collecting a new set of legendaries in the last couple days. The set dungeon sucked but at least I got a cool necro banner 
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Feb 26, 2021 12:36
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The Rathma rework sounded better on paper before actually playing it. It's a good example of D3 set/itemization issues limiting player choices. By nature of the set you are automatically locked in to using skeletal minions, revive, skeletal mage, army of the dead, and a generator (to cast command skeletons). That's 5 skills selected for you, and 1 optional because bone spirit actually kind of sucks  It's been so long since I used bone spirit, I forgot that it's cool down is refreshed by consuming corpses. Revive technically counts as a "consume corpse" effect, but you don't want to spam it to refresh your bone spirit. The new revives spawn near you and away from the enemy, meaning you're missing out on cooldown reduction to army of the dead. The huge AOE that destroys things faster than your bone spirit does, anyways. Not only that, you're already spamming skeletal mage. Remember how fun that used to be? You have to in order to keep the max amount of minions for better damage bonuses. It only feels slightly better because you get to spam other buttons, too! It reminds me of vanilla D3, when you would play witch doctor / the OG grave injustice. Mashing every button on your bar because your huge cooldowns were popping up every 1 second. You can't even select different runes outside of poison, because it's too weak without the Nayr's Black Death effect. There's always a build that performs best, but I'm not just talking min-maxing. It feels really bad outside of T16 to use anything else in the cube. I'm not sure what the right changes are but I hope they give it another pass. It's actually fun for a rift or two, but for me it grows tiresome fast.
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Feb 26, 2021 13:39
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IME it's impractical to work Mages into the Rathma set. You'll be essence starved the entire rift, Bone Spirit won't refresh, and they'll drop off too fast to ever see any advantage from either the set bonus or Nayr's/Jesseth even with Circle of Evol. You also can't seem to use the Poison rune for your skellies if you want to get the active effect from Jesseth's. I just cleared a GR120 solo with 4 Poison abilities and Devour, which I'm sure is less than optimal. Nayr's, Defiler and RoRG in the cube, wearing Fate's Vow.
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Feb 26, 2021 14:23
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I'll give that a shot, thanks! Witching hour for the belt?
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Feb 26, 2021 14:39
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https://youtu.be/RC6WW6NXjqw
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