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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjCebKn4iic Hey everyone, the director of The Host and Snowpiercer is back, and with something really bonkers and incendiary this time. Snowpiercer had famously difficult distribution, what with Harvey Weinstein refusing to give it a full push because they wouldn't cut out 20 minutes of controversial stuff. Snowpiercer did pretty well on streaming however, and extremely well with critics, so it landed itself a decent pedestal as a cult classic. However, director Bong Joon Ho started shopping around his new movie criticizing corporate capitalism in the food industry, and no studio wanted to bite because there were some incredibly disturbing scenes that the director didn't want to cut out, especially for the $50 million budget Bong was asking for. Enter Netflix, who is pushing to be a real competitor in the indie film business, who agreed to Bong's budget and didn't even ask to change the film. Okja was shown at Cannes where it got applause at the end, but got booed at the beginning because of Netflix's logo. Netflix tried to get simultaneous theatrical and streaming release dates and most theatrical distributors around the world are not having any of that. There were also complaints about Okja being in competition at all, so next year Cannes is probably going to forbid streaming films. Anyways, this film opened 8AM Pacific on Netflix and I have to say it's loving BONKERS. Imagine George Miller's cute pig movie Babe, but told with the violence, politics and insane imagery of George Miller's Fury Road. Imagine My Neighbor Totoro, but with the nature vs industry conflict of Princess Mononoke. What if ET, but also Schindler's List? What if you told Paul Verhoeven to write a story about a cute pig and had Terry Gilliam direct it? Probably don't want your kids to see it, unless they're already accustomed to R-rated violence or maybe you want to rip off the band-aid now and let the little boogers know where their meat is coming from NETFLIX SPOILER RULES ARE IN EFFECT: USE SPOILER TAGS UNTIL... is it a week? Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 19:52
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 11:12 |
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Holy gently caress it's brutal! Will watch again!
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Jun 29, 2017 00:29
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Easily his best film. Fuckin' loved it.
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Jun 29, 2017 00:43
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If you've noticed a pattern across his filmography, this is up there with Snowpiercer in being a (vague thematic spoilers) gnostic film, about uncovering the truth, exposing lies, people who lie to themselves, people who are supposed to be on your side but are actually working against you, people who think they are the good guys but are unhelpful and even keep you from seeing the real truth.
Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 00:55
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Tremendous film. One thing that crossed my mind, with how it related it related to Snowpiercer, is how the Mirando twins related to Namgoong's decision to blow up the "other door" and escape the train. The point of Namgoong's plan, thematically, is that train-capitalism is toxic in such a way that cannot be reformed. Train-capitalism is an inherently tiered, unjust, and exploitative system — it cannot be reformed. In Okja, Lucy Mirando is a reformed, enlightened capitalist. She dresses in the clean white of Silicon Valley, and seems to truly want to be a good person who uses her company to create a better world. The movie takes this apart in two ways. The first is that the Mirando corporation is so often seen inhabiting these brutal industrial spaces. As much of a gloss Lucy Mirando puts on, the clean, white, Silicon Valley-like spaces are only a facade over the persistent decay. The other is in how Lucy is replaced by her worse sister Nancy. The ALF, while dweeby, idiotic, and occasionally hypocritical, do seem to be essentially well-meaning and, by their motivation, pursuing something that the movie considers to be in the realm of justice. They're not perfect, but they're not dupes or "the real enemy" or anything like that. Their plan is to stop Mirando by embarrassing and shaming them, showing them to be hypocrites. The problem is that this strategy can only be successful inasmuch as Mirando corporation cares about how they are perceived, or about genuinely doing or being good. So they succeed in humiliating Mirando, but this only manages to get rid of Lucy Mirando. She is replaced by Nancy, her twin, who doesn't give a gently caress. Ironically the ALF only manage to defeat the part of capitalism that genuinely cares, the actually exploitative part of the machine keeps on rolling. Which is a long way to say that Namgoong was right.
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Jun 29, 2017 03:39
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Also a lot of the minor characters were so good. "I admire your commitment, Silver, but your pallid complexion is concerning."
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Jun 29, 2017 03:42
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Jake Gyllenhall really steals the show.Steve Yun posted:If you've noticed a pattern across his filmography, this is up there with Snowpiercer in being a (vague thematic spoilers) gnostic film Yeah I picked up on that as soon as I saw the golden pig. Lotta interesting themes from a wide variety of sources, I'm gonna have to watch it again when my wife gets home.
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Jun 29, 2017 04:33
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welp if I wasn't a vegetarian before, also I think this might be a prequel to oryx and crake
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Jun 29, 2017 07:00
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Hand Knit posted:Which is a long way to say that Namgoong was right. The director is definitely not an optimist. I really appreciated the post credits stinger though. Showing the ALF getting out of jail and right back into their old habits (with the help of the truck driver from the Seoul scene) helped make the ending feel a little less brutal and pessimistic.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:29
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Nancy's pure, bald capitalism is refreshing in a way. At least with her you know what you're getting, that she only cares about one thing, and that's why Mija is able to deal with her at the end. The way to keep a profit-motivated corporation from doing something is to present a profit motive.
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Jun 29, 2017 18:16
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broken sm57 posted:The director is definitely not an optimist. In some sense he is. It's more evident in some of his other movies, but as poo poo as the world may appear in his films, the good guys are always willing to fight their hardest for the good no matter how remote that good may be. Steve Yun posted:Nancy's pure, bald capitalism is refreshing in a way. At least with her you know what you're getting, that she only cares about one thing, and that's why Mija is able to deal with her at the end. The way to keep a profit-motivated corporation from doing something is to present a profit motive. Our first sale! The whole thing with Nancy and Lucy being twins, from the same vicious and exploitative father can be kind of on the nose sometimes, but I guess it's necessary to draw out what the film wants to draw out about Lucy. She may be cleaner, and may genuinely care (whatever that may mean), but she's still the same. Also, while Mija gets what she wants, the next scene, her exit, is a slow walk past the anguished superpigs. Dealing with Nancy it may be easier to get what you want individually, but it's harder to get rid of her than Lucy since she has no shame.
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Jun 29, 2017 19:43
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Okay, translation notes and some minor spoilers. In a movie where they say "translation is sacred," there is a very incorrect translation that sticks out. When the ALF ditch Mija and Okja on the bridge, K's farewell subtitles say "Learn English! It opens up new doors!" but his Korean dialogue says "My name is Goo Soon Bum!" Is this an easter egg from the director to joke about the sanctity of translation? Fitting in with the gnostic reading of the film, translation really is made out to be a big deal because the translator is the gatekeeper to information. When Mija depends on others for translations it leaves her vulnerable, which is why she learns a little English and is able to negotiate with the villain at the end on her own. I'm really impressed that the director figured out how to make the activity of translation in a multinational film into something meaningful and symbolic. If you didn't get it from his tone, the corporate translator in the hotel was extremely rude (the scene where they're in a hotel room convincing Mija to play along with the ceremony). He generally took everything mildly threatening that Jennifer said and would be more blunt about it. The exception was the last line when translator said "if you don't do what we say, she's going to become a steak" which isn't much worse than Jennifer lifting a food dome to reveal ribs and saying that Okja would end up like that. When J makes a long statement and K's translation is very short, his translation is "we always do this" Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 20:20
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Jake Gyllenhal is real good in this
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Jun 30, 2017 01:04
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Hollismason posted:Jake Gyllenhal is real good in this It's like Joon-ho told him "Do your Bubble Boy character, but imagine he's been huffing paint thinner for ten years and maybe even drank some here and there." And it somehow worked.
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Jun 30, 2017 01:10
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This movie has a great cast. Its like a collection of people you like seeing in movies and wish they were in more stuff. The little girl did a great job also. I wonder if Giancarlo Esposito will ever get to play a nice guy.
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Jun 30, 2017 01:27
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DivisionPost posted:It's like Joon-ho told him "Do your Bubble Boy character, but imagine he's been huffing paint thinner for ten years and maybe even drank some here and there." Yeah some people have really panned his performance but I thought it was really great. Some people were saying this was really violent but I really didn't think it was at all.
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Jun 30, 2017 01:42
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Hollismason posted:Some people were saying this was really violent but I really didn't think it was at all. I mean, if someone said that all the superpig anguished squealing made them too uncomfortable to watch, I don't think I'd blame them.
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Jun 30, 2017 03:09
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Some more notes, because I've been thinking way too much about this movie One of the movie's big themes is about the truth. People will try to keep the truth from you, and you have to find it despite them. You can't trust anyone to give you the truth. Sometimes people even hide the truth from themselves. - During Lucy Mirando's opening presentation, you can see in the black and white photo that she's not nearly as made up. She wears braces at her inauguration. She recently took over the company. Between these scant pieces of information, you can piece together that she had a major makeover to make her more appealing to the public. Nancy doesn't give a poo poo, so she has bad teeth that affect her speech. I think Tilda's performance as Nancy was meant to evoke Mason from Snowpiercer, who had horrible dentures. - The grandpa lies to Mija about where Okja is going. - Lucy mentions to Frank that they had to lie to the public about their animals not being GMO free because they're too dumb to judge whether GM foods are safe. I don't think the movie is saying GM foods are bad, it's saying that lying about GM foods is bad. People deserve to be given all the facts and make up their own minds about it. - K lies to the group about Mija giving consent for the mission. I think this is juxtaposed against Mirando lying to the public about GM foods. K isn't any better than Mirando when he misleads everyone else for what he thinks is a good cause. - When the ALF sees what goes on inside the Paramus NJ lab to Okja, they can't handle it and turn off their monitors. They are hiding from reality. They are not doing anything to make the situation better, they act only to give themselves relief in that moment. - Jay warns Mija not to turn around when the attack goes down at the parade. Despite being well-meaning, he is hiding the truth from Mija. It might be a horrible truth, but he is preventing her from being fully knowledgeable about the world. It's the truth not even the members of the ALF could fully handle. - Later, Mija goes to the slaughterhouse. There, she is witness to an even more horrible truth than what Jay kept her from, but facing this horrible truth is the only way to save Okja. - Earlier in the film, her grandpa talked about her needing to grow up and become a woman. By the end of the film, she is wearing a skirt for the first time. I think this signifies that the whole experience has caused her to become an adult. She has seen the truth of how the world works, and despite being back with the one she loves, this knowledge hangs over her and haunts her. Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 03:32
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Hollismason posted:Yeah some people have really panned his performance but I thought it was really great. People in another thread were talking as if it were super violent and gory, but it wasn't. It's almost a family-friendly adventure with some sinister undertones if not for the F-bombs and of course the stuff in the last 20 minutes. It got me to watch it though, so mission accomplished!
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Jun 30, 2017 03:35
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Speaking of bad teeth, here's a tidbit from Snowpiercer: https://www.quora.com/In-Snowpiercer-what-is-the-significance-of-Masons-dentures quote:Q: The scene where Mason, captured by the tail section people, removes her dentures in front of Curtis is also very interesting. What side of Mason did you want to highlight in that scene?
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Jun 30, 2017 03:46
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This movie is so much fun! I'm not sure it fully works but each individual section is so good that it doesn't matter. Gyllenhaal was probably my least favourite part of the flick but it wasn't so much that the performance was bad as much as the character just felt a little too far, with the squeaking and teeth gnashing and such.
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Jun 30, 2017 11:17
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I don't know why I expected a dark thriller before watching this. Maybe it was that prejudice coloring my view, but I felt like the movie couldn't really pick a genre to go with. There was some beautiful shots though. I particularly liked the one where Jake Gyllenhaal is laying on the floor of the lab and the camera is on the ceiling pointing down. One thing I didn't get is why they gave the 26 super piggos to farmers at all. Like what was the point. And also the pig CGI was a little bland most of the time.
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Jun 30, 2017 12:25
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Really enjoyed this. A few scattered thoughts: I liked how Lucy's nice opening monologue still comes across as gross, malthusian silicon valley-speak. The super-pigs are meant to be extra intelligent too right? The way Okja saved Mija near the beginning came across as being humanlike to me, and she seemed to understand what was being said. Also when the other pig pushed its baby under the fence at the end. J taking the shard of plastic from Okja's foot mirrors Mija doing the same with a thorn earlier. There doesn't seem to be any real way to damage Mirando. The ALF's plans are carried out pretty flawlessly, but they don't have any impact. They're able to crash Mirando's big event and show its evil to the world, but all they get is a paramilitary beatdown and a more ruthless CEO. Nancy doesn't care about Mija's victory at the end, because she doesn't actually lose anything. Mija makes a real, human, connection to the hispanic abattoir worker but it wouldn't have made a difference if she wasn't also able to play Nancy's game with a literal block of gold. also the jazzy soundtrack to the Seoul chase scene was incredible! drunken officeparty posted:One thing I didn't get is why they gave the 26 super piggos to farmers at all. Like what was the point. It's to show authenticity as part of not-Monsanto's greenwashing efforts, they spell it out pretty explicitly in the dialogue.
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Jun 30, 2017 13:14
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drunken officeparty posted:One thing I didn't get is why they gave the 26 super piggos to farmers at all. Like what was the point. Other than the publicity, Mirando is planning that the contest will imply that all superpigs are raised naturally in accordance with the world's best-for-the-pigs farming techniques, instead of Pig Auschwitz. As far as the film's themes go, it's to help establish Mirando as embodying the way that late capitalism may imagine itself as global, and ingratiating itself with (and even preserving) traditional practices.
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Jun 30, 2017 14:14
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This movie is bloody great. After Snowpiercer and this you can pretty much count me in sight unseen for any movie Bong Joon Ho wants to make. He has that great quality to put together a movie that clearly has the clarity of vision of an auteur, yet with the refined presentation of a blockbuster film.
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Jun 30, 2017 14:19
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Jesus. I saw good reviews on rottentomatoes. I saw a trailer with a giant hippo thingy that kinda reminded me of falcor the luck dragon from never ending story. I thought it was a fun family friendly adventure movie with a cgi animal on par with babe. Wife wanted an adventure movie. The Martian was the bar she set. I made a choice and in hindsight my first option, Hardcore Henry, would have been more lighthearted. Both of us teared up at points and really kinda associated okja with our dog in ways that made some scenes pretty awful. Good movie, just harder than I expected. Acting was superb and the shots were incredible. The chase through Seoul was beautiful. Never having a good footing of the tone of the movie was probably what makes it harder to see as a hit in any sense. It's too extreme in every direction to last as anything other than a strong and beautiful movie with hidden depths. I liked the host, have been meaning to see snowpiercer. Guess I gotta do that soon.
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Jul 2, 2017 06:36
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Goddamn it you assholes. I read some of the out-of context spoilers, and that intrigued me enough to see the drat movie. It was great. But am I the only one who feels that the "natural" light parts felt a little too pale, like they were shot under an overcast sky? The night scenes look fine, so is it an stilystic choice or just an oversight? And is the ending suggesting that Okja was capable of communication, but only in whispers, so that's why the girl kept whispering to her? Now I feel kind of bad for liking my pig's feet tacos so much! 
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Jul 2, 2017 11:42
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Funny that movie preaches that it's bad to kill animals, unless it's just dumb chicken - the girl says her favourite dish is chicken soup. Good ol'hypocricy. Movie was good, mostly because of its humour and acting, but I found the message heavy-handed and simplistic.
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Jul 2, 2017 14:24
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It's against the industrialized meat industry, not the eating of animals. There's no hypocrisy.
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Jul 2, 2017 14:38
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Nroo posted:It's against the industrialized meat industry, not the eating of animals. There's no hypocrisy. I guess that's true. So, in other words - unethical treatment of livestock? Too bad there is no other solution until people learn to grow artificial meat in a lab.
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Jul 2, 2017 14:53
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Monglo posted:I guess that's true. So, in other words - unethical treatment of livestock? Too bad there is no other solution until people learn to grow artificial meat in a lab. You could not eat it
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Jul 2, 2017 14:53
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Just saw this today; it was great, another Bong hit, cried at the end, etc. Not as great as Bong's masterpieces Mother and Memories of Murder, but at least on the level of The Host or Snowpiercer. My only gripe is that the english language acting/dialogue felt.. I don't know, stilted? unnatural? I think maybe Bong isn't fully comfortable working with non-korean actors and languages. Maybe it would have been a better movie if it was set entirely in Korea. Anyway, 
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Jul 2, 2017 16:19
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Monglo posted:I guess that's true. So, in other words - unethical treatment of livestock? Too bad there is no other solution until people learn to grow artificial meat in a lab. "Don't eat sapients that exhibit simple tool use and cross-species altruism." 3peat posted:My only gripe is that the english language acting/dialogue felt.. I don't know, stilted? unnatural? I think maybe Bong isn't fully comfortable working with non-korean actors and languages. Maybe it would have been a better movie if it was set entirely in Korea. I'm fairly certain the ridiculously heightened dialogue in this movie is 100% on purpose. Especially Tilda Swinton's performance.
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Jul 2, 2017 16:35
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Nroo posted:It's against the industrialized meat industry, not the eating of animals. There's no hypocrisy. I mean, Mija ate chickens and fish with her granddad.
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Jul 2, 2017 16:45
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3peat posted:Anyway, This rules so hard. Kal-L posted:And is the ending suggesting that Okja was capable of communication, but only in whispers, so that's why the girl kept whispering to her? My understanding was these were quiet, intimate connections between Mija and Okja. They're shot as Mija's words disappearing behind Okja's ears because they're small, direct, and inaccessible to the rest of us. The scene at the superpig festival, where Okja doesn't respond to Mija at first, is being Okja is pained and panicked.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:31
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3peat posted:Just saw this today; it was great, another Bong hit, cried at the end, etc. Not as great as Bong's masterpieces Mother and Memories of Murder, but at least on the level of The Host or Snowpiercer. 
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Jul 2, 2017 19:43
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:"Don't eat sapients that exhibit simple tool use and cross-species altruism." If it was suddenly discovered that chickens were as smart as ravens I doubt people would stop eating them tomorrow. Now if they looked and acted like Clifford the Big Red Dog, ooh, right in the feels.
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Jul 3, 2017 02:38
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Hand Knit posted:Tremendous film. One thing that crossed my mind, with how it related it related to Snowpiercer, is how the Mirando twins related to Namgoong's decision to blow up the "other door" and escape the train. The point of Namgoong's plan, thematically, is that train-capitalism is toxic in such a way that cannot be reformed. Train-capitalism is an inherently tiered, unjust, and exploitative system — it cannot be reformed. In Okja, Lucy Mirando is a reformed, enlightened capitalist. She dresses in the clean white of Silicon Valley, and seems to truly want to be a good person who uses her company to create a better world. The movie takes this apart in two ways. The first is that the Mirando corporation is so often seen inhabiting these brutal industrial spaces. As much of a gloss Lucy Mirando puts on, the clean, white, Silicon Valley-like spaces are only a facade over the persistent decay. The other is in how Lucy is replaced by her worse sister Nancy. The ALF, while dweeby, idiotic, and occasionally hypocritical, do seem to be essentially well-meaning and, by their motivation, pursuing something that the movie considers to be in the realm of justice. They're not perfect, but they're not dupes or "the real enemy" or anything like that. Their plan is to stop Mirando by embarrassing and shaming them, showing them to be hypocrites. The problem is that this strategy can only be successful inasmuch as Mirando corporation cares about how they are perceived, or about genuinely doing or being good. So they succeed in humiliating Mirando, but this only manages to get rid of Lucy Mirando. She is replaced by Nancy, her twin, who doesn't give a gently caress. Ironically the ALF only manage to defeat the part of capitalism that genuinely cares, the actually exploitative part of the machine keeps on rolling. Awesome movie. After watching a lot of lovely movies recommended on this forum, this film was well worth it.
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Jul 3, 2017 03:06
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McSpanky posted:If it was suddenly discovered that chickens were as smart as ravens I doubt people would stop eating them tomorrow. Now if they looked and acted like Clifford the Big Red Dog, ooh, right in the feels. If you're interested in exploring this premise, I really can't recommend the graphic novel Elmer by Gerry Alanguilan highly enough. It takes place in a world where overnight, chickens all suddenly gain human consciousness. Really good stuff and I think would appeal to people who liked this movie.
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Jul 3, 2017 03:26
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 11:12 |
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Just because something can't discuss how much Batman v Superman sucked doesn't mean it.doesnt have consciousness. There's pretty.much no reason.to eat meat other than it tastes good, unless you're a subsistence farmer or in a third world country and that's the only available source of protein. However, you and I live in a 1st world country or at least or at a economically advantages position. I'm not a vegetarian by the way.
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Jul 3, 2017 03:35
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