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Badger of Basra posted:Sorry to skip to the end of the thread and ask this but...is WASD still making keyboards? It looks like most things on their website are sold out. WASD didn't adapt to a changing market and got buried because of it. They don't have anything unique or compelling to give anyone a reason to look at them anymore. Their peak was several years ago when mechanical keyboards were less common and they didn't have that much competition at their price point. But, keyboards got popular, and everyone started putting out their own, spanning the spectrum of price range, including the range that WASD keyboards occupy. Unless something has changed recently, the way of remapping keys on a WASD keyboard is awful, and far fewer people are willing to deal with that when you can a Keychron or something that has VIA support. Also, many people (myself included) found that WASD's custom keycaps straight up suck.
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Feb 19, 2024 21:39
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WASD is like 10% more quality than Tecware for 200% more cost
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Feb 19, 2024 22:05
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Taima posted:I am honestly glad to get this done with, the keyboard space is incredibly confusing and I get the impression that it is more of a hobby than an actual product to perform tasks, for many people, which made the whole thing difficult to gauge because people are seemingly willing to spend almost infinite money on what are ultimately... more like bespoke hobby interests than "I need a keyboard for typing things good" if that makes any sense. From what I can gather, you are beginning to seriously grasp at straws past say, $250-300. Definitely curious if anyone disagrees on that though! You are not incorrect, but remember that the keyboard is possibly the most important component of your computer. It's hardly a big issue if your CPU or GPU aren't as powerful as you'd like, the compiling will just take a bit longer or you need to turn down graphics settings. But if you are using a bad keyboard it may have detrimental effect on your hands and you might end up in pain for a long time to come. I've had minor issues with my wrists for a long time and about 15 years ago I had an episode when those issues flared up. My hands were in pain for about a week and I had to fall back to two-hand typing from ten finger typing. Not just two finger, I had to gently bunch up my fingers and keep my fingers and wrists immobile and type from the elbows, otherwise it would have been too painful. That week sucked majorly and I've had to do a lot of finger and hand execrcises since then. When we consider ergonomics in the time span of decades there really isn't much limit on how much we should spend on keyboards. It just annoying to consider how many keyboards it would be necessary to buy and how much time we would have to spend tinkering with them, it would really turn in to a hobby. There isn't much change that one would buy the best keyboard at the first try, you need to buy several different style models, and use them and tinker with them to figure what works best for you. Just last week I did the latest modifications to my Ergodox EZ layout, about 23 months since I bough it. And in the mean time I'm also considering buying another split keyboard model, either for home or office use, which ever feels better. And I have experienced the ergonomic effect. I use my Ergodox at home office but once a week I go to office and there I use a mechanical keyboard in standard layout. At least it has the same Cherry MX Red switches I'm familiar with, even if the layout is inferior to split and I'm badly missing the advanced features I have configured in the Ergodox. But sometimes I'm at the office for a short while and I can't be bothered to fetch the mechanical from my locker and instead use the cheapest Lenovo scissor switch keyboards equipped at the desks. Last time I did that I ended up using the Lenovo for few hours and it started getting painful. And if hobbying with computers interests you, then keyboards are one the most prolific fields nowadays with copious amounts of options available with larger variation than you can imagine. Ranging for large selection you can buy from Amazon, to something like DIY building a tiny Ferris Sweep. Some people are even designing their own PCBs.
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Feb 19, 2024 23:56
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That's honestly a really good point. And I do believe in that concept for other things; for example I use a Herman Miller Embody. I don't mess around with my back, that's all there is to it. But you make a good point that keyboards are kind of the same thing (preservation/maximization of an essential body part). Btw I checked out that Ergodox keyboard you referenced and it's crazy! Do you recommend split layouts? I did notice there are tons of keyboards that do that, including on the keychron website. They just look like they require you to unlearn muscle memory that has been accumulated over decades... I had a brief phase as well, where I was looking at those keyboards they use in court? The fast type ones for the court transcription people? But that looked even harder to learn! I just hope i'm not being an old person about it- if you think I am, and that sticking to a conventional keyboard layout is objectively inferior, I would be curious to know if you agree with that. I've found that the older I get, the more effort I have to put into trying new things. But if it's worth it, it's worth it, and I never want to become one of those people who gets old and immediately yells at clouds when anything new comes along (have noticed many of us on this forum have been doing that more and more as we all age). If you had to buy a prebuilt keyboard for under or around $300, what would you get? When this OnePlus 81 Pro keyboard arrives (which is clearly an upgraded and/or modified Q1 Pro) I'm going to have buyers remorse and wish I bought something better. What a pain lol. That's why I usually just buy the "best thing" from the outset, but I found it very difficult to lay down $500+ for a keyboard without having a firm understanding of why I'm doing that... The thing that really confuses me about the OnePlus keyboard is the options. There are two varieties. One is $199 one is $219. The $219 version only comes in linear, but it has the "marble mallow" keycaps that I really wanted. While the $199 version has PBT caps, but tactile switches, which I prefer. So I had to order the cheaper version. But I really wanted to try the mallow keycaps. Is there anything aftermarket that is similar to the marble mallow caps? Everyone who uses them online seems to love them, so I was very hyped on getting some- but I assume that soon they will be available aftermarket? Hopefully... Taima fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 18:42
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If you really want to see just how different a keyboard can be, see if there are any keyboard meetups happening around you and go to one. It's the easiest way to try out a wide variety of layouts, keycap materials and profiles, switches, and case materials, and an easy way to directly compare how those differences affect the typing experience. Otherwise, the only way to get an idea of what you might really like in a keyboard is to spend a bunch of money doing it the trial and error way. Also, there is plenty written out there about the benefits of using a split keyboard for better ergonomics compared to a "regular" keyboard that may be worth taking a look at. For many people, the biggest hurdle to using a split keyboard (asides from price and desk space), is just using a split keyboard. You've gotten so used to typing on a keyboard positioned in the middle, that moving to a keyboard positioned to have your forearm and wrists in a more natural alignment will probably feel weird. Also to a lesser degree, how "correct" you are in typing might cause some issues (assuming you touch type already, of course), namely what finger you use to hit the "b" key (you should be hitting it with your left index), but many split keyboards nowadays just put a "b" key on both sides. But yeah, the keyboard hobby can be a bottomless money-pit if you start chasing what you think is the "perfect" combination of parts for yourself.
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Feb 20, 2024 20:58
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What is the best cheapest, like $60 or under, tenkeyless mechanical?
icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 00:19
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icantfindaname posted:Is the OP of this thread updated in 2019 still reasonably accurate? Yes and no. The basics are still solid. The descriptions of how the switch types work are still good. The stuff about Cherry vs. Cherry clone switches is out of date (Cherry switches have been surpassed by their clones now, but other brands like Kalih are the real hotness these days) and the recommendations are loooooong out of date. The keyboard buying guide in 2024 is basically: Do you want it to be bluetooth, hotswappable, and not bank breaking? Then you buy Keychron (through Amazon, never direct, Keychron's "customer service" is actively hostile to customers.) Otherwise, there are basically three tiers: 1. Want to spend less than $150? Buy Redragon/Tecware off Amazon, which is usually in the $40-60 range. Anything in the $60-150 range won't be enough of an improvement to justify the extra cost. 2. OK with spending $150+? Other good options open up in the $150-300 range, starting with the Ducky One 3. 3. Addicted to keyboards and no longer care what it costs, you just want something  ? Start following Massdrop.But basically if you come to this thread asking "which keyboard brand should I buy" (meaning you don't already know exactly what you want) the thread's answer will almost always be Keychron. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 00:29
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icantfindaname posted:What is the best cheapest, like $60 or under, tenkeyless mechanical? https://www.amazon.com/Tecware-Phantom-Mechanical-Keyboard-Outemu/dp/B079HTZQYV
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Feb 21, 2024 00:29
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Eric the Mauve posted:3. Addicted to keyboards and no longer care what it costs, you just want something I thought general consensus now is that Drop is overpriced? I don't look at Drop anymore, I go directly to sites like Novelkeys, Kono, etc. but maybe I'm at step 4
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Feb 21, 2024 00:33
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Eric the Mauve posted:https://www.amazon.com/Tecware-Phantom-Mechanical-Keyboard-Outemu/dp/B079HTZQYV Thanks
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Feb 21, 2024 00:35
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Keychron also has hotswap TKL right around $70: https://a.co/d/g4ZpJ9N
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Feb 21, 2024 00:37
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Eric the Mauve posted:https://www.amazon.com/Tecware-Phantom-Mechanical-Keyboard-Outemu/dp/B079HTZQYV When my GMMK died recently I picked this up as a stop gap. I’ve been pleased with it. In fact I have been happy enough that I am taking my sweet time researching a replacement.
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Feb 21, 2024 01:43
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death cob for cutie posted:I thought general consensus now is that Drop is overpriced? I don't look at Drop anymore, I go directly to sites like Novelkeys, Kono, etc. Drop hasn’t kept up with keyboard design. They’re no longer a good value. They have okay keycaps though.
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Feb 21, 2024 01:53
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mariooncrack posted:Drop hasn’t kept up with keyboard design. They’re no longer a good value. They have okay keycaps though. Sometimes the boards are OK; I got a sense 75 barebones for like 100 bucks over the summer because it was on sale, which makes it worth it. I think the "normal" price is much higher, like around 200 which is definitely not worth it.
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Feb 21, 2024 02:26
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Taima posted:That's honestly a really good point. And I do believe in that concept for other things; for example I use a Herman Miller Embody. I don't mess around with my back, that's all there is to it. But you make a good point that keyboards are kind of the same thing (preservation/maximization of an essential body part). I would absolutely advocate for split keyboard or other method to "separate" the sides more. If you google for ergonomic keyboard most of them do something to achieve this, either completely split halves, spreading and turning the halves like Logitech ERGO K860 and Microsoft Sculpt, curving the keyboard like Logitech Wave Keys, using Alice layout like Keychron V8, or something ever more radical like Kinesis Advantage2. I can't imagine how the standard layout that forces you to bend the wrists could be good. Of these options I would consider full split the best since it provides most freedom. You can position them exactly the way that is optimal for you. Which direction they point, how much tenting they have, how widely spaced out. Maybe put the keyboard on the sides and put a touchpad or trackball between them. One of my goals with the Ergodox has been to turn them vertical so I could avoid another twisting for my wrists. This discussion inspired me to another googling session and I found several 3D print plans of vertical stands for the Ergodox. Or maybe I attach the halves to my chair so I can type with my arms hanging by my sides, a concept I tested years ago. Yes, something like Ergodox EZ has a long adjustment period to reach the same level of familiarity as you have with standard layout, but it probably won't take long to reach useful competence. The way I see it, I'm not getting any younger so I have learn this now before I go full senile. I'm getting old so it's time to start minimize the wear and tear on my hands. And only good if this also forces me to exercise my brain more. This is a feature, not a bug. When I got my Ergodox I quickly concluded that it's a good product and just few days later I had completely rearranged the layout to something with no resemblance to QWERTY. Over the next 11 months I used 17 different revisions of that layout with some big changes and every time I had to learn something new. Then I decided to do a major change to the layout and I'm now on the 6th revision of that.  Notice also the columnar, orthogonal layout. I consider this another major advantage over the traditional staggered layout. I can't think of a reason why you would use stagger if you aren't typing on an old mechanical typewriter. Some time ago I bought Keychron V8 with the Alice layout with the idea to take it to work so I wouldn't have to carry two keyboard halves from my locker. But I disliked it quite a bit, I found the amalgam of staggered, curved and split layout worse then any of them alone. This does show that when you are going to unfamiliar keyboard territories a good return policy is a valuable asset. For a prebuilt around $300 at this point I would recommend Ergodox EZ, or possibly the Moonlander but I haven't tried it out. They are split, orthogonal, have highly customizable firmware with a good website GUI to configure them, hotswap sockets, and they come from an established manufacturer and are popular so for example those 3D print plans already exist. I have looked at many other split keyboards and the Neodox looks like something that could surpass the EZ, but I am hesitant to give that much money to a small Vietnamese shop. At least their blog explains why their shipping is so hideously expensive, so that improves my confidence and almost ready to commit. After the Keychron I will probably only accept split orthos from now on. But the Ergodox lacks fanciness even if it's featureful. I could definitely appreciate the quality of the Keychron and the sound the keys made. Yeah, that's annoying that the OnePlus didn't come with your desired set of options. Practical solution to that would be to buy the mallow version, then switch the keyswitches. Tactile switches are plenty available and there are probably as good or better alternatives on the market. Or you can buy the other keyboard for the caps, $219 isn't an otherworldly sum for a good set of keycaps in this hobby.  It's good to remember that the keyboard, switches and keycaps are separate components. I bought my Ergodox without caps and reused the ones I had bought for my previous keyboard.
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Feb 21, 2024 04:22
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I really appreciate this great discussion on ergonomics. I want to take better care of my body and I appreciate the wisdom of goons itt. Kinesis Advantage Pro arrives tomorrow  I am excited!!!
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Feb 21, 2024 07:38
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I’ve been on the Kinesis Freestyle Pro for 2 years now and love everything about it.
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Feb 21, 2024 14:40
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Ornery and Hornery posted:I really appreciate this great discussion on ergonomics. I want to take better care of my body and I appreciate the wisdom of goons itt. I've tried a bunch of the new split designs but always return to my Kinesis Advantage 1 and 2. Been on them for 15+ years and have 3 of them now.
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Feb 21, 2024 20:35
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Eric the Mauve posted:Yes and no. The basics are still solid. The descriptions of how the switch types work are still good. The stuff about Cherry vs. Cherry clone switches is out of date (Cherry switches have been surpassed by their clones now, but other brands like Kalih are the real hotness these days) and the recommendations are loooooong out of date. Overall great updates, but a couple of Edits to this. Massdrop is bad for the boards. Their keycaps deskpads are not. Don't buy their boards though, tons of known problems, and so on. CannonKeys and Novel Keys for the US are both good websites for the higher end/more custom keyboard parts. Group buys going constantly, in stock stuff, good companies. Zoom boards are not constantly in stock, but are a good, this is better than Keychron, but cheaper than Mode and often have blue tooth function. I'm waiting on my Zoom 65 2.5 V to ship from Cannon Keys as we speak actually, because it will be my coffee shop board. Mode is the best high end in stock order soon boards if you can handle their prices like the layouts and styles they have. They're in some peoples eyes low-end game, or in a sane persons eyes higher priced end game. Very vibrant discord community, and they're my end game company. With a few exceptions, they're the only board maker I'm interested in buying from. (Okay, if the Space 65 gets made again, I'll buy that too). Higher high end (unicorn, that sort of thing) is stupid and frankly prices are too high. Still, if I had known about it in time, I would have tried to enter the raffle to buy an Event Horizon keyboard, because it looks insane and sounds really good. GMK keycaps are not as hard to buy. I would not spend over retail for those keycap sets. I'm trying to get comfortable with Cherry profile, because of GMK and how most good keycap sets are in cherry profile but I still think XDA is the superior profile if you have adult big fingers. Also, the ergo conversation, I used a split keyboard for awhile, but the only thing that fixed my RSI issues was to switch to Boba u4t's, and just have better typing posture. I use a regular keyboard now (mostly mode, sometimes my old GMMK Pro, sometimes an Ikki 68) and my hands are finally healthy again. Also, weight training. I think a lot of issues come from not strengthening your shoulders wrists arms. LionArcher fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 00:37
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👀👀👀👀
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Feb 22, 2024 01:12
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Ornery and Hornery posted:I really appreciate this great discussion on ergonomics. I want to take better care of my body and I appreciate the wisdom of goons itt. This is what got me started on it. Wrote so much on my Kinesis Advantage 2 ten years ago. I use it sculpted WASD JKL: keys on my Dactyl Manuform. I completely agree with the comfort and ergonomic benefits of using a split keyboard. I have an Ergodox-ez coming tomorrow, which is ridiculous cause it just left Taiwan this morning.
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Feb 22, 2024 03:16
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gnatalie posted:mode sonnet V0i1f2f3g4b5b6d7b8b ordered yaaaaay trip report: typing feels like a dream. no regrets. edit: looks like i can't remove the lovely picture. oh well
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Feb 23, 2024 04:05
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I think I'm in the market for a new keyboard. My current Logitech K840 is no longer available, and the similar G413 SE has loving LEDs that I don't want. I've avoided getting into specialist keyboards for a while, but it might finally be time. At the same point, I was hoping to try something before buying, but  I guess. This keyboard is going to be used for work and some fun but not much intense gaming. I borrowed a key tester from someone, and I think I like the tactile switches, such as the Cherry MX Brown. They are the most similar to what I have as far as I can tell. I want it to be 100% full size keyboard with a num pad, and I'd really like it to be a dark color; black, gray, etc. No decorative LEDs. I like the way the aluminum body gives the keypresses a little resonance, but that wouldn't be a deal breaker I don't think. Any suggestions?
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Feb 23, 2024 13:49
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keychron k10 / q6 will get you there without too much hassle
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Feb 23, 2024 15:05
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I liked Epomaker's TH96.
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Feb 23, 2024 15:23
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gnatalie posted:trip report: typing feels like a dream. no regrets. okay question - I would like to have a fun keyboard like this but I also want a fullsize one, with the numpad and everything. and it seems like Mode, Zoom, and Cannon don't have any of those available. is there somewhere else I should be looking? or am I getting to the place where I will have to build it myself? in which case I'll just buy a keychron or something
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Feb 24, 2024 03:54
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You can find a prebuilt of your choice (some will have default keycaps, some won't have any, some will just be the plate and you'll need to add both switches and keycaps) and just replace what's on it. Then it would just come down to your choice of keycaps that you can source from anywhere when you find a fun set you want For example Keychron has the Q6 for 100%, then you can just replace keycaps. People in the hobby don't really like 100%s though so they're a bit harder to find, although not impossible.
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Feb 24, 2024 04:57
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Badger of Basra posted:okay question - I would like to have a fun keyboard like this but I also want a fullsize one, with the numpad and everything. and it seems like Mode, Zoom, and Cannon don't have any of those available. is there somewhere else I should be looking? or am I getting to the place where I will have to build it myself? in which case I'll just buy a keychron or something For the Zoom series, there is a Zoom pad, which is a separate numpad + knob attachment. They might be sold out right now, but i'd expect another group buy at some point soon.
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Feb 24, 2024 08:20
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ziasquinn posted:This is what got me started on it. Wrote so much on my Kinesis Advantage 2 ten years ago. I use it sculpted WASD JKL: keys on my Dactyl Manuform. Why did you switch from the kinesis to the ergodox?
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Feb 24, 2024 09:24
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Badger of Basra posted:okay question - I would like to have a fun keyboard like this but I also want a fullsize one, with the numpad and everything. and it seems like Mode, Zoom, and Cannon don't have any of those available. is there somewhere else I should be looking? or am I getting to the place where I will have to build it myself? in which case I'll just buy a keychron or something meletrix has two fullsized keyboards in the works right now - the Zoom Max and the Zoom 109. the 109 is supposed to come out this year although i don't know when. there isn't much about it than i can find because it looks like it's actually a branch of the zoom max. i'm guessing the 109 is for people who didn't like the max design in the renders, because it has a very retro aesthetic.
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Feb 24, 2024 11:07
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icantfindaname posted:What is the best cheapest, like $60 or under, tenkeyless mechanical? Eric the Mauve posted:https://www.amazon.com/Tecware-Phantom-Mechanical-Keyboard-Outemu/dp/B079HTZQYV What's the answer to this if you add wireless to the criteria?
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Feb 24, 2024 22:34
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I gave up on trying to find a nice UK ISO keycap set for my K10 since all the really nice stuff is all ANSI only or doesn’t have the correct international keys for a UK windows layout. Instead I decided to go all blank since I’d rather have no legends at all than a couple of incorrect ones, because brainworms.  Combined two sets of Ducky cherry profile keycaps. I might invert them depending on how the white holds up under general fingertip grossness over time but for now I like it.
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Feb 25, 2024 00:51
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there's a decent number of sets with UK-ISO support, the true hard mode is finding sets for any other language
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Feb 25, 2024 00:57
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repiv posted:there's a decent number of sets with UK-ISO support, the true hard mode is finding sets for any other language Yeah they definitely exist but unless you get in on the ground floor of a group buy, 99% of the ones that do exist and are to my tastes are seemingly out of stock basically everywhere (presumably since they originated as group buys), or only available as bootlegs from random aliexpress vendors. I have a few sets from there but I’ve never been particularly thrilled with the quality. Edit: VVV yeah I’d browsed there, nothing really grabbed me. History Comes Inside! fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Feb 25, 2024 |
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Feb 25, 2024 01:02
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off the top of my head, cannonkeys, domikey and pbtfans have numerous in-stock sets with UK-ISO cannonkeys is the cheapest of the lot and they're stocked locally by prototypist e.g. https://cannonkeys.com/products/cannoncaps-moon depends on the theme you're looking for, of course repiv fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Feb 25, 2024 |
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Feb 25, 2024 01:06
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runchild posted:What's the answer to this if you add wireless to the criteria? https://www.keebmonkey.com/products/ciy-gas67-gasket-keyboard-kit
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Feb 25, 2024 01:15
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runchild posted:What's the answer to this if you add wireless to the criteria? Keychron, same as always. If you mean like under $70 and you don't want to build it yourself, there is no answer that I know of.
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Feb 25, 2024 02:37
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Eric the Mauve posted:Keychron, same as always. I just noticed the keyboard in your previous answer has a variant with a detachable cable, that actually meets my needs without full wireless. EDIT: I guess that version can only use “Wraith” switches which AFAICT are Tecware’s proprietary format. runchild fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Feb 26, 2024 |
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Feb 26, 2024 17:25
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runchild posted:What's the answer to this if you add wireless to the criteria? I got this for 50 bucks, took less than a week to get to my door, and it feels nice out of the box. I've since added gs-9 yellow switches and my favorite keycaps. Love it. The software let me remap the pause button to media player pause. Knob is used for listing settings, and Fn-Knob click turns it to volume adjust mode. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805900643468.html
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Feb 27, 2024 18:27
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 Ignored my RSI too long; now trying to learn to 10-finger-type like a grown up, on a split Moonlander. Slow going but my hands are already happier.  Still have a Huntsman v2 here (with a busted F diode, pay respects) to cheat on typing with as needed, and for gaming, a thing I basically do not do. I like the moonlander a lot. The DOIO numpad is sorta needless but I like a physical volume button and I have it mapped to do a bunch of interesting things. The software loving sucks, you have to flash it yourself, I couldn't get that to work in Windows and my efforts led to me loving up my USB layer with Zadig so bad that I had to reformat.
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Feb 29, 2024 15:25
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