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After The War
Apr 12, 2005

I fought in
the Old Revolution
on the side of
the Ghosts and the King


The_Doctor posted:



Last day to sign up for the Secret Santa!

Sign up here: http://goo.gl/forms/ldaiubFMd7

I don't know where I'll be living in a month.

So I also provided my parents' address if my Santa doesn't think it will arrive by the 31st.

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Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


Listened to the first of the new 10th Doctor audios today. It was OK. I was never the biggest fan of Rose and him, and this is them at their most twee. But while it's no 10/Donna, I can take it in small doses and it's great to have 10 back. They do a great job of capturing the era. That script/plot is the most RTD thing that ever RTD'd.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


Wheezle posted:

We definitely dodged a bullet by not getting s female doctor written by Moffatt.

Isn't that basically River Song?

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

"I saw Dallas Keuchel....THERE'S A BEARD!!!!!"


The Complete Peter Capaldi Years are going to be released as a big ol' Blu-ray box set in February in Region A.

Wheezle
Aug 13, 2007

420 stop boats erryday


Vinylshadow posted:

Isn't that basically River Song?

Yeah. Imagine River Song being in every episode.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


For a while there it looked like we wouldn't have to imagine it!

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


At the new UNIT boxset with the episode set in the Inferno dimension:
Kate: "Look this is going to seem an odd question, but...the other me...was I wearing an eyepatch?"

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Just heard about this

https://news.sky.com/story/former-c...saults-11147470

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste?

YUMMY!


Soiled Meat

Adam really was the worst companion

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


jivjov posted:

Adam really was the worst companion

If we have to memoryhole a companion due to their actor turning out to be an rear end in a top hat, there really was no better option!

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008


Plavski posted:

Let the Big Finish Capaldi era begin!

Although

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2...ould-he-return/

BF also don't have the license for 12 (except for his eyebrows?) so it will be many years before we get more Capaldi, which blows as I really think he'd thrive on BF.

Capaldi. Capaldi, have you learned nothing from Tom?

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


Pesky Splinter posted:

At the new UNIT boxset with the episode set in the Inferno dimension:
Kate: "Look this is going to seem an odd question, but...the other me...was I wearing an eyepatch?"

I imagine the UNIT of the Inferno dimension, rather than being affiliated with the United Nations, would've been very suspicious and isolationist and inward-looking. They would've been called the British Executive Intelligence Taskforce instead.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.




Synopsis: The 10th Doctor returns in a second volume of Audio Adventures for Big Finish, set much earlier in his life time and reuniting David Tennant and Billie Piper as the 10th Doctor and Rose. An alien invasion in Modern LondonNorwich, an adventure in historic LondonSlough and an encounter with an alien on a futuristic space stationsupermarket all strongly evoke the feel - for better or worse - of the RTD era.



Jackie Tyler visits with an old friend in Norwich, where she is less than flustered to see the arrival of an alien invasion force. Putting through a call to Rose (her friend is confused, what can an unemployed shopgirl do?), we get the first taste of the light-hearted comedy that permeates the front half of this story. The Doctor and Rose arrive immediately... from inside the house. It turns out the Doctor misjudged and arrived 5 minutes before Jackie did, so they've been hiding in the bedroom waiting for her to call so they could answer. This basically sets the scene for what feels like is going to be a comedic story, something a little Douglas Adams-esque perhaps, with the "twist" so clearly telegraphed that you'd assume the writer assumed most of the audience were dim. But it's all a rather neatly handled misdirection for a further revelation (not twist) that colors everything that has preceded it.

The Zaross invade - warthog-headed aliens who the Doctor has never heard of, and whom even the TARDIS doesn't seem to recognize. The Doctor reluctantly admits to Rose that maybe he doesn't know everything, but still finds it perplexing that an invading race of aliens could exist he hadn't at least heard of. As he seeks information, the Zaross round up the population and continue to act in extremely bizarre ways, including teleporting off the planet in the midst of a speech before returning to repeat the exact same thing all over again. Jackie - a welcome return from Camille Coduri - is one of those taken prisoner and promises to keep her head down... before angrily shouting at a Zaross that it is scared of outspoken women and "nutting" a MartianZaross.

The Zaross round up all the healthy males (and eventually Jackie and her friend's daughter) and bizarrely equip them with uniforms and weaponry. As Jackie and Jess escape their captors, the males are sent into battle with the Zaross and quickly defeated by the laughing, taunting Zaross. This sudden dark turn feels at odds with the rest of the story until the Doctor disrupts the Zaross' drones and their leader begins moaning at him to please turn them back on. He even threatens the Doctor with a "mega-bomb" until the Doctor points out that this so-called super-weapon appears to be a tube with a couple of buttons glued on. That's when we learn (and it is not a surprise) that the Zaross are actors, and the entire invasion of EarthNorwich is purely to get footage for season 3 of a popular intergalactic series about the mighty Zaross: world-conquerors. If this had been the twist, this would have been a story unremarkable outside of the novelty of having Tennant and Piper in the lead roles - one of the few criticisms I had of Volume One was that it played it safe with enjoyable but largely unspectacular stories that mostly relied on the chemistry between Tennant and Tate. But the further revelation and the Doctor's fury is incredibly well handled. The whole thing may be an act, scripted television but it is also scripted "reality" - and all those humans really did genuinely die, all for the sake of intergalactic ratings.

The Doctor, Rose and Jackie are separated so that all get their own stuff to handle separately before coming back together for the resolution. Despite essentially having three main parts, nobody feels under(or over) exposed and in true RTD fashion there is a nice little personal human moment where Rose offers her support/endorsement of Jess as an important person in spite of her mother's constant judgmental nagging and unfair comparisons to her sister. The Doctor turning the bad guys' system against themselves is a nice touch, with hubris being their downfall after the Doctor offers them a chance to make a peaceful withdrawal. Everything feels like it has a little room to breathe, and there is even a nod to the recurring Torchwood theme of season 2 of the revival, which is also a (not particularly effective) way of explaining away the aftermath/implications of an open alien invasion of EarthNorwich. Like Volume One, this story perfectly captures the spirit of the RTD era, but doesn't entirely play it safe and at least makes an attempt to reach for some of the highs of RTD's time in charge.



The Doctor tempts Rose with the notion of visiting a variety of incredibly exotic space-locations before finally settling on the most exciting and thrilling destination of all: Slough! With great enthusiasm he brings her to see The Great Forty-Foot Telescope in 1791, where after raving about it for minutes finally sheepishly admits that it never really worked that well. Happily for Rose, they see a more interesting sight shortly after - the Chevalier d'…on doing a fencing demonstration. The Doctor explains the mystery of her gender in a neat aside that is reminiscent of the 9th Doctor's discussion of sexuality in The Empty Child - showcasing a more enlightened view of gender that has even more weight now in light of the decision to make the 13th Doctor a woman.

The Doctor is convinced to take part in a fencing exhibition against the Chevalier, where he is promptly trounced easily, and proceeds to brag to a laughing Rose that the Chevalier complimented him on his skill as she destroyed him. The good times end when they spot a UFO in the sky heading towards London, and get saddled with the Chevalier and her carriage as the only available transport. With increased exposure to the Chevalier, they discover that she is far from interesting company once the novelty wears off. She is charming but bitter, a shameless self-promoter who simultaneously bemoans her current station in life while ceaselessly talking herself up and forever namedropping. Rose can't resist teasing the Doctor for not being entirely far off that description himself.

The alien threat again feels very much like a creation from the RTD-era - an alien being with a single body and three faces/distinct minds (one of which is ____dead____ which has come to Earth to grab some sample humans and sell them to the highest bidder. Except that (even in 1791) humans are far from a rarity, so they decide to wipe out all but roughly 200 of the planet's population in order to create artificial scarcity. That smacks a bit of the common issue from RTD's era where EVERY story had to have global consequences, it was never enough that just a few people might get killed or taken prisoner. Once again the Doctor and Rose are split apart so that one doesn't overshadow the other - a necessity from a storyline point of view though it does mean we get less Doctor/Rose interaction as a result (some may consider that a good thing, others a bad thing) - and the Chevalier steps in as a more than adequate replacement to provide the sidekick role for both at different points before coming into her own and getting an opportunity to prove her best days are behind her.

While the whole story is largely fun and has some interesting concepts to explore, it does feel like the weakest of the stories and doesn't seem at all concerned with the idea that they're just openly introducing aliens, UFOs, futuristic tech etc into the 18th Century without any kind of explanation for why this all (including the death of a prominent social/aristocratic figure) gets largely forgotten by history. Plus the Doctor's resolution after the Chevalier pulls off her scheme smacks a little bit of Deus Ex Machina, as he has the arrogant alien scan him, figure out he's a Time Lord and immediately begin kowtowing to him and that's basically the end of the story. But again, for better or worse, this is a pretty accurate reflection of the RTD era that these audios are aping.



The Doctor decides to take Rose skiing, but rather shortsightedly only tells the TARDIS to take them to somewhere with the perfect temperature for skiing... so it dumps them into the deep freeze section of a supermarket. Not just any supermarket of course, it is a floating space supermarket. Not just any floating space supermarket, but one that has been taken over by space pirates. Plus of course the Ice Warriors have just broken out of the deep freeze with plans to destroy a nearby human colony world. So.... skiing is probably off the timetable for today.

The Ice Warriors did not appear in the revival until Matt Smith's era, in 2013's Cold War. Before then, their last televised appearance was in 1974's The Monster of Peladon. So their inclusion in this boxset is a nice little bridge between the Classic and Revival, and a chance for David Tennant's Doctor to go up against a foe never had the chance to before. Of course any appearance by the Ice Warriors generally has to deal with the fact that they've played both villains and good guys, and in this story the attempt to acknowledge both takes ends up muddying the waters a bit. Yes Lord Hasskor is quite clearly playing a villain, but his rage and desire for revenge is built of very real atrocities suffered at the hands of the human race. That these atrocities took place in a distant past doesn't excuse them, and an attempt to demonstrate to Hasskor that his race are not extinct falls flat with an oddly tone-deaf bit of writing about how the surviving Ice Warriors from the war were shunted away into ghettos and live in squalor, ignored or looked down upon by humans. But there is a nice line from the Doctor tying into the later Peladon stories, as he explains that the Ice Warriors would rebuild their own proud empire and once again be a major player in the galaxy, but this time in harmony with other races (the events of Empress of Mars provided an alternate but not necessarily overwriting explanation of this as well).

The supporting characters for this story are largely flat with a couple of strong character moments that mostly stand out because they are so distinct from the otherwise generic feel they have. There is a helpful robot, a mother/son pirate team (the Doctor's views on piracy seem to have changed between the last story and this one) and a garbagewoman. The latter gets a nice moment in the sun when she shouts down the Doctor and Rose who have been helpful but largely condescending of her and points out that she actually knows things they don't. But for that scene to stand out, she needs to be sidelined or ignored for much of the rest of the story, which means her character largely falls into the background only for the listener to be suddenly reminded she exists and chided for not paying the same attention to her as the main cast... except she wasn't doing anything TO warrant that attention.

The ending thus feels somewhat pat, but the clash of wills/arrogance between the 10th Doctor and Hasskor is interesting to listen to, while Rose gets to take the leadership/action role while he does the talking. What I think sets this story above the previous though is that it reaches a little higher and tries a little harder even if it doesn't quite pull it off. Despite the world-ending threat of the second story, this one feels like there is more at stake, and the Ice Warriors are more interesting by dint of familiarity alone, whereas The Consortium of the Obsidian Asp (what a wonderfully RTD name) are great in concept but less so in execution.

Final Thoughts:

This second volume of The 10th Doctor Adventures feels very much like a love-letter/wholehearted embrace of the RTD feel of the television show. This is both its strength and its failure, because everything it gets right is what RTD got right on his show, but everything it gets wrong or that doesn't sit right with me are the very same issues I had with seasons 1-4 (and specials) of the revival. This volume does however play it less safe than the previous volume did, attempting to play around with some more out there concepts and not relying so much on the chemistry between the leads and novelty of having Tennant and Piper (or Tate in the previous) back in the roles. Tennant and Piper do extremely well recapturing their old characters, Piper especially who has to jump back into a younger mindset/voice. All the issues that listeners might have had from back in the show's days are there too however - the too familiar, almost flirty back and forth between the two is there in spades. But so is the bombast, the brilliance, the so ridiculous it somehow works and it's all just a remarkable amount of fun is there. You might come for the novelty, but if you enjoyed Tennant and Piper or that era of the show in general, everything you liked (and not) about all of that can be found right here. Plus Ice Warriors!

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at Dec 3, 2017 around 10:54

King Plum the Nth
Oct 16, 2008

Jan 2018: I've been rereading my post history and realized that I can be a moronic bloviating asshole. FWIW, I apologize for most of everything I've ever written on the internet. In future, if I can't say something functional or funny, I won't say anything at all.

Chokes McGee posted:

Capaldi. Capaldi, have you learned nothing from Tom?

Save it for Eccleston. At least we had multiple seasons of Capaldi. Capaldi has genuine affection for Who. I'm a mad fan of Capaldi the actor and Doctor Who the show but I'll admit I wasn't in love with the combination until the last season/series. Though, in retrospect, it was all good really.

But then there's Eccleston. I *have* to love every episode/story he was in (and I do. Regardless.) because they're all I have. 9 is my favorite Doctor. (Equaled only by 1-War and 10-present. Second only to Cushing.)

I would say Chris is a genius at "always leave them wanting more" but his choices of movie roles are so wretched that I see no strategy. I respect that, as an actor, he had differences with the then current show runners. Or whatever. But to keep from showing up in the 50th (even if we did get an awesome 50th anyway), to keep from reading audio books, to stay away from BF, is just being a prig for the sake of being a prig. The flaming abortion of The Dark is Rising wasn't a bridge too far? G.I. Joe validated your life choice to become an actor? Thor 2 was acceptable? As far as (other) TV (Heroes?!) and movies go, the man has no shame. The one "franchise" of his career that has some integrity? In which he truly distinguished himself as an actor and garnered devoted, appreciative recognition for his talents? gently caress that noise?

Whatever.

We'll always have Pertwee and Capaldi if we need to bask in the love of a "hardcore" Doctor. So you can eat it Eccleston.

I . . . may be bitter.

King Plum the Nth fucked around with this message at Dec 3, 2017 around 07:38

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


To be fair, isn't he a regular castmember of The Leftovers? Which is supposed to be REALLY loving good?

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!


It's alright, and he is good in it. But actors do not have an obligation to you to keep doing the same thing forever, and if he didn't enjoy being doctor who and can pay the bills doing something else then good for him

King Plum the Nth
Oct 16, 2008

Jan 2018: I've been rereading my post history and realized that I can be a moronic bloviating asshole. FWIW, I apologize for most of everything I've ever written on the internet. In future, if I can't say something functional or funny, I won't say anything at all.

Ms Boods posted:

I have done collaborative work with a colleague who is in the enviable position of having seen it twice as a young boy -- once on original broadcast in England, and then a year or so later when his family had emigrated to Australia. He's given public talks and published on it; he is still moved tremendously by it, and considers it the best Doctor Who serial of all of them.

You are awesome, your colleague is awesome, and I am grateful to have had this interaction with you. Doctor Who fanaticism is weird because we do have these gaps and some of it may only ever be subject to living memory and stories of same. I had no idea this was a thing. Years ago I went through a phase where I was determined to read the Target novelizations of every "lost story" that I could find. Marco Polo really did stand out to me from that attempt (for various reasons I didn't meet my goal) -- and it was underscored by the scene that it got in An Adventure in Space in Time,.

So thank you for posting this. Personally, it's super cool to read.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

Jerusalem posted:

To be fair, isn't he a regular castmember of The Leftovers? Which is supposed to be REALLY loving good?

It was yeah.

King Plum the Nth
Oct 16, 2008

Jan 2018: I've been rereading my post history and realized that I can be a moronic bloviating asshole. FWIW, I apologize for most of everything I've ever written on the internet. In future, if I can't say something functional or funny, I won't say anything at all.

corn in the bible posted:

It's alright, and he is good in it. But actors do not have an obligation to you to keep doing the same thing forever, and if he didn't enjoy being doctor who and can pay the bills doing something else then good for him

I know. I mean -- there was this whole "George R.R. Martin is not your bitch" thing years ago spearheaded (coined?) by Neal Gaiman. And I have zero investment in George R.R. Martin/Game of Thrones and I rather like Gaiman and [long nerd screed redacted] I don't really care. Writers, actors, etc. are all people, just like me/us who make their own choices and I don't really fault them for much.

I was just riffing on my own personal fantasy world where whatever could be whatever. And Eccleston is an amazing actor who is great in everything he appears in (except Thor 2 which I recently read an article/interview where even he says he was sold short in that. But, if you haven't seen it, watch The Shadow Line where he stars with Chiwetel Ejiofor and Rafe Spall, among others, and it's all so goddamned delightful).

I mean I only watched GI Joe just to see him. And he was good even if the movie wasn't. So I'm fond of joking that Eccleston chooses his film roles based on a dare: "How bad can the role be before my awesome talents can't make a difference" (answer: Thor 2. But he's been brilliant in everything else I've seen him in regardless of the overall quality of the surrounding project.)

Just, given Shatner and Nimoy, I like to image that he could return to the nerd role from which he's become estranged. And given their arc -- and Tom's -- I'm just sorry it has to take so long. I'm American (I'm sorry. So sorry. Nobody's perfect) so I think of money first. Being The Doctor can't be hard for him - and it pays -- so why won't he do it? Of course, I'm thinking only of myself and not really or him. But [reasons]

So I don't mean anything by it IRL/professionally. I'm just some random, our-of-the-profession. dude,. commentator on the internet. I was just expressing my fantasy.

Edit:

Jerusalem posted:

To be fair, isn't he a regular castmember of The Leftovers? Which is supposed to be REALLY loving good?

howe_sam posted:

It was yeah.

Apparently, I need to watch The Leftovers. Thanks.

King Plum the Nth fucked around with this message at Dec 3, 2017 around 07:34

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


King Plum the Nth posted:

Apparently, I need to watch The Leftovers.

Me too, I keep meaning to and getting distracted by other stuff.

Plavski
Feb 1, 2006

I could be a revolutionary


The reasons Chris took Thor 2 ended up being cut from the movie. Malekith was a complicated character with a backstory and a purpose that get removed to make way for more CGI. He was pretty disappointed, but that's what can happen in movies so he moved on.

Pocky In My Pocket
Jan 27, 2005

Giant robots shouldn't fight!



One of the spoiler tags isnt done propper in the writeup

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


Bought the first Tenth Doctor volume and wow, it was like diving right back into the mid 2000s. Almost got shivers from that first "Donna, we're on!"

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


Pocky In My Pocket posted:

One of the spoiler tags isnt done propper in the writeup

poo poo sorry, fixed now.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Ok, everyone's Secret Santa emails have gone out now, so check your inboxes!

I'm not taking part this year, so no-one will have me as their santee.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

Someone call the Chancellery Guard. Commander Maxil's out of uniform. AGAIN.

Really glad I could afford to participate in the DWSS this year - having a real income has many privileges, but perhaps the best part is the opportunity to be generous.

Looking forward to hearing about everyone's gifts.

Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012



After The War and I are about to move (again) and I can't brain enough to get anything together for the SS this year, but someone will be getting Berger cookies.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

MENTALLY
DEFEATED


Maera Sior posted:

After The War and I are about to move (again) and I can't brain enough to get anything together for the SS this year, but someone will be getting Berger cookies.

I still think about those cookies from time to time

Cerv
Sep 14, 2004

This is a silly post with little news value.

question: would people prefer that we use spoiler tags for Shada?

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Astroman posted:

If we have to memoryhole a companion due to their actor turning out to be an rear end in a top hat, there really was no better option!

Mike Yates?

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!


Cerv posted:

question: would people prefer that we use spoiler tags for Shada?

I think by now everyone's seen at least one Shada

Tim Burns Effect
Apr 1, 2011



I keep starting some version of Shada and never finishing it so maybe this new adaptation will be the one

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


Only one I've seen fully was the one they did where Tom Baker was in a museum (maybe he was The Curator ) and providing linking for the scenes that were never completed.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Jerusalem posted:

Only one I've seen fully was the one they did where Tom Baker was in a museum (maybe he was The Curator ) and providing linking for the scenes that were never completed.

Oh, that was the Museum of the Moving Image in London. They had a Who exhibition in about 91/92? I have a tshirt from that still somewhere.

Cerv
Sep 14, 2004

This is a silly post with little news value.

Tim Burns Effect posted:

I keep starting some version of Shada and never finishing it so maybe this new adaptation will be the one

it's still two episodes longer than it needed to be.
as usual, i wouldn't recommend watching these serials in one sitting.


does anyone know about this jamie goss they've gotten to novelise Dr Who And The Krikkitmen for xmas? as far as i can see his career is entirely doctor who books which isn't a promising sign

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

I fought in
the Old Revolution
on the side of
the Ghosts and the King


Jerusalem posted:

Only one I've seen fully was the one they did where Tom Baker was in a museum (maybe he was The Curator ) and providing linking for the scenes that were never completed.

I've only seen the into from that one, but he goes "SHAAAADAAAAAAAAAA!" so I love it.

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



Tim Burns Effect posted:

I keep starting some version of Shada and never finishing it so maybe this new adaptation will be the one

I have the same problem whenever I try to watch the McGann webcast, and Iím happy to say the new version is miles better. Obviously from sheer quality of animation itís superior, but on top of that theyíve manage to preserve the original performances. Douglas Adams dialogue sounds much more natural coming from Tom Baker than from McGann. And Christopher Neame is wonderfully camp as Skagra, especially compared to the quite dull actor that Big Finish used.

The biggest problem is the omnibus format. It works fine, mostly, but 6 parts is a bit too long to watch in one sitting without getting at least a little bored. All the original cliffhanger moments are still there so Iím sure a fan will make a 6-part edit one day.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Oh, the world's not so crazy, Kolenkhov. It's the people in it. Life's pretty simple if you just relax.



Jerusalem posted:

Only one I've seen fully was the one they did where Tom Baker was in a museum (maybe he was The Curator ) and providing linking for the scenes that were never completed.

The Eighth Doctor version is also a lot of fun, in particular right after watching a Tom Baker version.

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

Cerv posted:

does anyone know about this jamie goss they've gotten to novelise Dr Who And The Krikkitmen for xmas? as far as i can see his career is entirely doctor who books which isn't a promising sign

That's a phenomenally easy job though, all you have to do is take the third Hitchhiker book and search and replace "Ford" with "Doctor"

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Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

"I saw Dallas Keuchel....THERE'S A BEARD!!!!!"


No, I refuse to regenerate the thread! I'm tired of writing new OPs.

<a voice in the distance says the same thing>

<it's somebody claiming to be Retroblique, even though it clearly isnt>

TWICE UPON A THREAD

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