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The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Lampsacus posted:

Does anybody else have the problem where they've rewatched the revival episodes so many times they've tapped them dry? I guess I could start on the Martha season again.

Honestly, there's not many revival eps I can watch over and over. That's what Big Finish and other TV shows are for.

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MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Lampsacus posted:

Does anybody else have the problem where they've rewatched the revival episodes so many times they've tapped them dry? I guess I could start on the Martha season again.

I, too, saw them when first transmitted

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


The Martha season is frontloaded with bad, or, worse, boring episodes. Then halfway through you get Human Nature/Family of Blood, Blink and Utopia and it's great, and then blood started shooting out of my nose and I don't remember what happened.

Box of Bunnies
Apr 3, 2012

One day, we'll know all the secrets of the skies, and we'll stop our wanderings.


Sam Kisgart and friends return on the cover for New Adventures of Benny 4, a release I am incredibly excited for.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


I admire their sticking to the joke.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


I remember when I first got into Doctor Who

First episode I watched was Day of the Doctor and I kept getting Eleven and Ten confused for one another
Then I jumped back to Series One, watched Rose, then was stumped as to why the Doctor was hell-bent for leather and going bald
After that, I watched the series in order and fell in love with each Doctor every time he changed

Once I was caught up with NuWho, I used the hiatus last year to watch some more Classic Who
One and Two were absolutely delightful; I honestly haven't seen much of Pertwee (which means little exposure to the Classic Master, I know) and I have seen a huge chunk of Four, enough to see why people love him and eventually got tired and wanted something new

Haven't seen much of Five, but I did see Trial of a Time Lord for Six and Survival for Seven

I've seen most of the Dalek stories (including the reconstruction of Power of the Daleks, which was splendid), except for Evil of the Daleks, which I hope to remedy in the following months

As for Big Finish Audio, I've only listened to a few of them and wasn't too interested
Powered through the Titan Comics for Ten, Eleven and Twelve and a few other series, loved them to bits

And yes, I saw the TV Movie and enjoyed it

All-in-all, Doctor Who is a series I'd heartily recommend to any science-fiction fans and I'm now kinda sad I didn't go into the Doctor Who exhibit at a museum as a child, because it'd have probably blown my mind

Oh well~

Vinylshadow fucked around with this message at Jul 5, 2017 around 11:09

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008


^ you wouldn't have quite appreciated the same way you do now. But then again, what's a life lived forward?

Vinylshadow posted:

All-in-all, Doctor Who is a series I'd heartily recommend to any science-fiction fans and I'm now kinda sad I didn't go into the Doctor Who exhibit at a museum as a child, because it'd have probably blown my mind

Oh well~

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012


We've got this thing licked!



Lampsacus posted:

^ you wouldn't have quite appreciated the same way you do now. But then again, what's a life lived forward?

~Spoilers!~

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



Decided to listen to the Unbound story Masters of War, and after the first episode I'm just not getting why it's so popular. Maybe it picks up in Part 2, but if that's the case then they could have condensed the incredibly dull Part 1 into maybe a 15 minute opening.

Nothing about it, apart from David Warner's Doctor, feels like it couldn't have been done with minimal change in a main range Dalek story. Probably doesn't help that Daleks and Thals on Skaro is so incredibly boring compared to the Master in Hong Kong during the handover from the first story.

Fog Tripper
Mar 3, 2008

by FactsAreUseless


Super Deuce posted:

As a very casual Doctor Who fan, Capaldi was miles better than Matt Smith, and even better than most of Tenant. Also, Clara is by far the best companion.

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



If we're getting into a Capaldi v Smith thing I'd like to point out as I always do that there's only one other Doctor that I like less than 11.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

I fought in
the Old Revolution
on the side of
the Ghosts and the King


cargohills posted:

Decided to listen to the Unbound story Masters of War, and after the first episode I'm just not getting why it's so popular. Maybe it picks up in Part 2, but if that's the case then they could have condensed the incredibly dull Part 1 into maybe a 15 minute opening.

Nothing about it, apart from David Warner's Doctor, feels like it couldn't have been done with minimal change in a main range Dalek story. Probably doesn't help that Daleks and Thals on Skaro is so incredibly boring compared to the Master in Hong Kong during the handover from the first story.

I was once like you... when I was on Part 1. Keep going.

And speaking of Sympathy for the Devil, does he only use Kisgart for his dead-on Ainley impression?

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


Lampsacus posted:

^ you wouldn't have quite appreciated the same way you do now. But then again, what's a life lived forward?
That is correct

Plus, when you're older, you have more time to sit and think about Doctor Who, whereas a child would likely forget about it and zoom off to the next shiny thing

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Fans always know better than the creators.


Eleven wins out over Twelve for me, but not because of any real problem with Capaldi's performance or run; I've said before, even the worst Capaldi season--9--gets a pretty solid mark from me because if I think out watching the whole thing again without skipping any, there's still no episodes I'd dread in it. Even some good seasons can't manage that.

But Eleven is still my preferred and favorite, because he's basically how I would play the Doctor. I'm sure everyone here has some idea of how they would play the Doctor were they to play the role, and for me it would absolutely be like, 90% Eleven. Maybe with a little bit of early Twelve's pragmatism, Seven's constant scheming or later Twelve's no-fucks-given style, but most of the performance would absolutely be patterned on Eleven.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

That's a good point. Thinking about it, I'd probably play early Twelve's personality with later Twelve's hoodie/velvet jacket combo

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008


Oh that's a cool thought experiment! I'd probably act with my eyes. Apparently I have expressive eyes. I'd definitely take after 10. Lots of hands and yelps.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





My general answer to "which Doctor is my favorite" is "which one have I seen most recently".

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




I'd go for a combination of three and twelve I think. Can't go without Pertwee's swashbuckling:



The (somewhat shared) no-fucks attitude would play out in an increasingly ridiculous sequence of weird vehicles and gadgets.

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



After The War posted:

I was once like you... when I was on Part 1. Keep going.

And speaking of Sympathy for the Devil, does he only use Kisgart for his dead-on Ainley impression?

Just finished Part 2 and I still don't get the popularity. The villains are a bit too similar to the Movellans and it never ends up with an interesting "What if?" concept like the rest of the Unbound series. "Good" Daleks as a concept has been done a million times before by the time this was released, and it's not any more unique almost 10 years later. Probably me least favourite Eddie Robson script I've heard so far.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Oh, the world's not so crazy, Kolenkhov. It's the people in it. Life's pretty simple if you just relax.



While we're all doing Hot Takes on Doctors, during my rewatch I decided I'm not Nine's biggest fan. Eccleston feels like he'd have worked better for some of the slower-paced stuff that they write for Eight in Big Finish. For the way that Russell T. Davies was writing the show, David Tennant was just a better fit. There's nobody that can sell the end of season 3, though.

Both Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi were excellent Doctors, and I too, do not hate Clara.

I am glad that the show is in for major changes, because I think it needs to do that every few years to keep fresh, but I am a little worried about Chris Chibnall, and also slightly worried that the BBC is specifically trying for "dashing young male lead." Hopefully Chibnall's "writers' room" approach works out well for the show, and hopefully they have already found someone great to play the Doctor.

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008


I have a vision of the next Doctor being a mumbling introvert a la a Newt Salamander.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Lampsacus posted:

I have a vision of the next Doctor being a mumbling introvert a la a Newt Salamander.

Redmayne's Newt seemed too much like a Matt Smith impression, honestly.

EDIT: My hot take: I never liked Tennant as the Doctor.

The_Doctor fucked around with this message at Jul 5, 2017 around 15:26

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





Bicyclops posted:

I am glad that the show is in for major changes, because I think it needs to do that every few years to keep fresh, but I am a little worried about Chris Chibnall, and also slightly worried that the BBC is specifically trying for "dashing young male lead." Hopefully Chibnall's "writers' room" approach works out well for the show, and hopefully they have already found someone great to play the Doctor.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of this, though I'm not as worried about Chibnall as I would have been at one time. My guess (based off his better episodes) is that we're in for a shallow but fun era of Doctor Who, and there are far worse possibilities.

On an unrelated note (I guess this is my official Hot Take for the thread), I watched all of Season 9 for the first time fairly recently (well, aside from Magician's Apprentice/Witch's Familiar, which I watched when they first aired like seventy years ago) and I thought it all held together pretty well, even the dreaded Zygon two-parter (which I think had been built up as so thoroughly awful for so long that it was a relief to see that it was really just kind of mediocre, and it also featured my favorite performance out of Capaldi up to that point).

Season 10 was better, though, and I think that was down to the cast. (And I liked Clara). I said it in the last thread, but I think the Season 10 cast all around is the best the revival has had.

pgroce
Oct 24, 2002


Here's an idea I'm toying with: Every portrayal of the Doctor descends, fundamentally, from either the Hartnell take on the role (authority figure, basically establishment) or Troughton (trickster god, basically counterculture). This is obviously very reductive, but IMO it makes some sense. Hartnell defined the character, Troughton redefined it in response to that, and all subsequent actorsówhile each bringing new things and learning from all their predecessorsówere ultimately taking sides in their debate. Is the Doctor archetypally
a scientist or a clown? Does he serve civilization by embodying its strengths or pointing out its weaknesses?

My personal take on which Who was whom (Only doing TV here, which makes McGann very tough to judge.):

3: Hartnell
4: Troughton
5: Hartnell
6: Hartnell
7: Troughton
8: See below
9: Troughton
10: Troughton
11: Troughton
12: Hartnell

(How to judge McGann, who has appeared in the role twice, two decades apart? I think TVM McGann was basically written Hartnellian, after accounting for the general chaos of a new regeneration for both the Doctor and the show. McGann in Night of the Doctor, informed by years of BF stories, is much more Troughton. It's almost worth judging them as different portrayals, given both the IRL gap between performances and the in-universe effect the Time War had on him.)

What's interesting to me about the list above is that the old series mostly handed off between the two interpretations. More portrayals were Hartnellian, but Tom's 7-year tenure evened things out.

The new series, however, has much more consistently favored Troughtonian interpretations. Capaldi is the exception, and his performance doesn't seem to sit well with the Beeb, so perhaps there's now a consistent bias against the more authoritarian interpretation of the character.

Hopefully this is a fun thing to argue about. I think it's an interesting lens through which to view the series, and would pair nicely with a look at the historical contexts in which the series has been produced.

E: The temperature of this take is "tepid."

pgroce fucked around with this message at Jul 5, 2017 around 16:06

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

MENTALLY
DEFEATED


While there's an argument for 12 being more Hartnell than Troughton, I'd hesitate to call him authoritarian. He's very much a punk Doctor, to the point where I personally would consider him a Troughton, albeit a much more serious variation on the style.

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

There are some that the template fits to a tee - Three and Six are obvious Hartnells while Seven and Eleven are pretty explicitly modelled after Troughton - but the ones I have most trouble cramming into either box are Davison and Eccleston.

Davison probably because Five was a reaction to Tom who was in the role for so long that Four became the default take on the character, and while he dials down the standoffishness of Tom and brings back more teacherly qualities, he doesn't really feel like a Hartnell to me since the more Troughtony aspects of Four (younger, more energetic Doctor) are still there.

Eccleston is hard to fit into either category because Nine wasn't really a reaction to anyone, coming after the long break and being portrayed by a non-fan. Even so, if I had to, I'd probably class him as a Hartnell, since he tends towards the more serious end of the spectrum, and he's one of the few Doctors besides Hartnell I can picture hitting someone in the face with a shovel.

EDIT: The difference being, of course, that Nine would calm down and feel really guilty, while One would chuckle a bit and then immediately forget about it.

Forktoss fucked around with this message at Jul 5, 2017 around 16:34

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014





Not the worst interpretation. I'm mulling over the possibility of a Pertwee archetype - Troughton and Hartnell didn't do much of the running and jumping and swashbuckling we see in later interpretations. 6, 10, and 11 all go down this path, while others - 5, 7, 9, 12 - mostly avoid it. There's the trickster axis and the swashbuckler axis, with Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, and Smith in the four corners.

Tim Burns Effect
Apr 1, 2011



The_Doctor posted:

I admire their sticking to the joke.

It's because Colin and Sylvester still don't know who it really is

hangedman1984
Jul 25, 2012



Is there a good place to stream all the old Who (all that is available at least)?

Tim Burns Effect
Apr 1, 2011



pgroce posted:

Here's an idea I'm toying with: Every portrayal of the Doctor descends, fundamentally, from either the Hartnell take on the role (authority figure, basically establishment) or Troughton (trickster god, basically counterculture).

I'm not even sure i'd go with that reading of Hartnell honestly, he's just as trickster-y/anti-authoritarian as Troughton, just under a less wacky exterior. He's the kind of guy that would cause mischief and blame it on somebody else while LOOKING like an authority figure, if anything

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


Make it a 3D Doctor-Cube with the economic axis of the political compass.

So Sun Makers Four would be libertarian as all hell and Oxygen Twelve would be Karl Marx incarnate.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


I'd call 10 a Hartnell, honestly. For all his wisecracking, he still likes to present himself very much as an authority figure.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Tim Burns Effect posted:

I'm not even sure i'd go with that reading of Hartnell honestly, he's just as trickster-y/anti-authoritarian as Troughton, just under a less wacky exterior. He's the kind of guy that would cause mischief and blame it on somebody else while LOOKING like an authority figure, if anything

Well yeah, but this is the exterior. Maybe the "authoritarian-trickester" label isn't the best way to put it, but there's a certain gruffness vs irreverence at play, to the extent that I can see the pattern that he's working out here, even if I don't agree with every one of his characterizations. I'm thinking about 9 now.

There isn't a single iteration of The Doctor who wouldn't gently caress with someone because it was funny, given the chance.

thexerox123
Aug 17, 2007



CommonShore posted:

There isn't a single iteration of The Doctor who wouldn't gently caress with someone because it was funny, given the chance.

Have any examples of 5 loving with people?

Earnest question. I can't personally think of any, but I've only watched his run once.

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

thexerox123 posted:

Have any examples of 5 loving with people?

Leaving Adric to die

thexerox123
Aug 17, 2007



Forktoss posted:

Leaving Adric to die

That was pretty funny.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


thexerox123 posted:

Have any examples of 5 loving with people?

Earnest question. I can't personally think of any, but I've only watched his run once.

"You're really going on the run from your own people... again?!"

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




thexerox123 posted:

Have any examples of 5 loving with people?

Earnest question. I can't personally think of any, but I've only watched his run once.

Does his impersonation in Black Orchid count? I'm having trouble thinking of any, either. Damnit.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Tell him about the Twinkie.

Lampsacus posted:

Does anybody else have the problem where they've rewatched the revival episodes so many times they've tapped them dry? I guess I could start on the Martha season again.

The second season is essentially unwatchable to me. Outside of School Reunion and the Impossible Planet / Satan Pit two-parter, it's just so, so much hot garbage. I used to be fond of the Cybermen two-parter, but after revisiting it a few months ago, it was just stunningly bad.

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Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

The greatest thing about Hartnell's Doctor, and one that every single actor after picked up, is that he played the Doctor as the ultimate authority figure ... who's completely and totally anti-authority.

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