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Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

"I saw Dallas Keuchel....THERE'S A BEARD!!!!!"


CommonShore posted:

12 had also just gone through the whole Trenzalore thing, too.

Well, 11 technically. 11 was moments away from perma-death, so 12 naturally is thinking of mortality for, essentially, his whole life.

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Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

This few in under the rader: BritBox is going to have a reconstructed "The Wheel in Space"

http://nerdist.com/classic-doctor-w...d-lost-episode/

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment





Lipstick Apathy

Davros1 posted:

This few in under the rader: BritBox is going to have a reconstructed "The Wheel in Space"

http://nerdist.com/classic-doctor-w...d-lost-episode/

Oh! Is that Zoe's entrance story? I am excited.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

HopperUK posted:

Oh! Is that Zoe's entrance story? I am excited.

Unfortunately, they've haven't clarified what they mean by "reconstructed". Do they mean animated, or do they mean just marrying the soundtrack to a progression of still images?

Shiftypenguin
Mar 15, 2005

Antique Roadshow

Murderion posted:

Mmmnope, having recently watched the original Silurian serial, they don't come off very well. The first Silurian leader seems like a nice chap(?) who's willing to try to coexist, but once his second in command takes over he jumps straight to attempting genocide. Twice. With no provocation. They're presented as morally complex and diverse, but they were a credible threat even if the Brig did the wrong thing.


I got the Silurian box set partly because I wanted another 5 story. After opening it all up, the little booklet that came with the Warriors basically said "we know this is terrible and we're very, very sorry ". Still haven't watched it.

What's a good jumping on point for 5? I've got Castrovalva and I've seen Earthshock.

The bonus interviews with Davison and Fielding on the Warriors of the Deep dvd make it worthwhile. They basically make fun of the whole thing. It's delightful.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

"I saw Dallas Keuchel....THERE'S A BEARD!!!!!"


I certainly hope it's animation if they got an article written about it.

glowing-fish
Feb 18, 2013

by Nyc_Tattoo


On the subject of animation:

Does anyone remember the two Tenth Doctor, full length animated stories?

Dreamland (new companion, played by Georgia Moffet) and The Infinite Quest (with Martha Jones).

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Oh, the world's not so crazy, Kolenkhov. It's the people in it. Life's pretty simple if you just relax.



I remember the Infinite Quest (which also had Anthony Stewart Head as the villain if I remember correctly). I watched Dreamland, but I can't remember much about it - I know it was a military thing about Roswell.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste?

YUMMY!


Soiled Meat

They tried to act like Dreamland was like a core and fundamental part of that season too...and it wasn't. It was a cool side story; but not critical.

Same with those 11 Doctor Adventure games getting billed as "Like episodes 14-17 of Series 5!"

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

I fought in
the Old Revolution
on the side of
the Ghosts and the King


Murderion posted:

What's a good jumping on point for 5? I've got Castrovalva and I've seen Earthshock.

The three Davison seasons are all pretty distinctive. His first is all over the place, but you can see some definite holdovers from the Baker years. His second has a lot of high concept, imaginative science fantasy, and is fairly distinct - I can't imagine another era trying something like Terminus or Enlightenment. His third is the dark, gritty stories we tend to associate with Five, with human exploitation and commodification as a central theme throughout. Davison's honest, incorruptible Doctor helps keep it watchable and from descending into Grimdark.

So it really depends on the kind of story you'd want to see. I'd probably recommend:

Season 19: Kinda, Black Orchid
Season 20:: Terminus, Enlightenment
Season 21: Frontios, Resurrection of the Dales (gently caress the haters)

I love Caves of Androzani and can talk about it for hours, but it really does work best as a capstone to the Davison era. Partly because it perfectly nails what Saward had been trying for, bringing sharp focus on the earlier stories' flaws, but also because it ties to themes running throughout his run, and his need to save his companion at any cost. Plus it will give you something to look forward to.

Speaking of flaws, this is the era that inspired my "keep in mind the story they were trying to make" approach - it makes it a lot easier to get past budget limitations, comical effects, strange edits, and BBC meddling. There was some really ambitious storytelling in these, and concepts that would be hard to portray even with access to time and money, making their attempts to do so with neither rather endearing. To me, at least.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


Doctor Spaceman posted:

Although it is pretty badly scripted too.

How about that one scene where the team of UNIT soldiers - who are presumably trained to deal with alien menaces - go into the ghost town in America, having been told, "Listen, these are devious shape-changers who can and will try to play mind games with you - don't fall for it!" and the lead guy instantly believes one of them pretending to be his mum (did she live in the ghost town? Was the ghost town the soldier's hometown? Should he have expected to find her there?) and not only goes into the obvious trap unarmed, but convinces his men to put down their guns and do the same thing? There's so many better ways you could have done that scene and that one feels like such a first-draft placeholder it's mind-boggling.

Or the bit where the Doctor and someone else (I can't remember who it was - maybe Osgood?) are walking about when a couple of police officers get out of a car in the background and start approaching them menacingly, then next thing you know they're somewhere completely different and the thing with the "Are those policemen Zygons?" is never resolved?

It's just not very well-written. I didn't really enjoy "Kill the Moon" either but it wasn't that badly-written.

Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at Jul 7, 2017 around 08:07

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


Wheat Loaf posted:

not only goes into the obvious trap unarmed, but convinces his men to put down their guns and do the same thing? There's so many better ways you could have done that scene and that one feels like such a first-draft placeholder it's mind-boggling.

http://i.imgur.com/5oZspXl.gifv

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


Anyway, I don't feel like talking about bad episodes, so here's fun. I was re-reading the list of actors who could have been the Doctor the other day. While I wouldn't want to replace any of the actors who did play the part, the ones from that list I most would've liked to see in the role are Michael Hordern as Two, Richard Griffiths as Five (or Eight in a putative post-McCoy season in 1991) or Ben Daniels as Twelve.

As far as actors who were to my knowledge never considered to play the Doctor (fantasy casting, obviously, but hopefully realistic fantasy casting, i.e. realistically could have happened), I would have most enjoyed Peter Wyngarde or Laurence Payne as either Three or Four and James Hazeldine as Five for Six.

And More
Jun 19, 2013

How far, Doctor?
How long have you lived?


What ever happened to Peter Jackson directing an episode of Doctor Who?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w6agKVUCTM

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


The BBC looked at his proposal for 500 practical Dalek models each with a different colour scheme and greebling to signify their rank, the number of life forms exterminated and their last century of clan history and shitcanned it.

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

High marks for compassion, low marks for survival skills





After The War posted:

Resurrection of the Daleks (gently caress the haters)

Resurrection is a mess, but it's the sort of mess I enjoy. Also the Daleks having to put up with a mercenary whose role appears to be to tell them "No, you idiots, THIS IS WHY YOU KEEP LOSING" will never not be funny.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


After The War posted:

Resurrection of the Dales (gently caress the haters)

It's better than "Revelation" but not as good as "Remembrance".

quote:

I love Caves of Androzani and can talk about it for hours, but it really does work best as a capstone to the Davison era. Partly because it perfectly nails what Saward had been trying for, bringing sharp focus on the earlier stories' flaws, but also because it ties to themes running throughout his run, and his need to save his companion at any cost. Plus it will give you something to look forward to.
th access to time and money, making their attempts to do so with neither rather endearing. To me, at least.

That's the thing - Saward was influenced by Bob Holmes and wanted to write Bob Holmes stories, but he had his own style and formula, which boiled down to "there's a badass mercenary gunslinger type, the Doctor is secondary to this character, and everybody dies at the end". "Caves" is Holmes writing a story using this formula, but it works a lot better than most of Saward's own efforts simply, I think, because Holmes was a better writer than Saward.

What did Saward do after Doctor Who, by the way?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


Dabir posted:

The BBC looked at his proposal for 500 practical Dalek models each with a different colour scheme and greebling to signify their rank, the number of life forms exterminated and their last century of clan history and shitcanned it.

Peter: I'll pay for it myself.
BBC: Well in that ca-
Tories: Did somebody say public-private partnership in the BBC as an ongoing model?
BBC: ...nevermind...

Senor Tron
May 25, 2006

send em back to Islamistan or some shit

Wheat Loaf posted:

Anyway, I don't feel like talking about bad episodes, so here's fun. I was re-reading the list of actors who could have been the Doctor the other day. While I wouldn't want to replace any of the actors who did play the part, the ones from that list I most would've liked to see in the role are Michael Hordern as Two, Richard Griffiths as Five (or Eight in a putative post-McCoy season in 1991) or Ben Daniels as Twelve.

As far as actors who were to my knowledge never considered to play the Doctor (fantasy casting, obviously, but hopefully realistic fantasy casting, i.e. realistically could have happened), I would have most enjoyed Peter Wyngarde or Laurence Payne as either Three or Four and James Hazeldine as Five for Six.

I'm convinced there is an alternate universe where Patrick Stewart didn't get the role as Captain Picard and he returned to England, became The Doctor, and rejuvenated Doctor Who's popularity over his 7 year run as the Doctor.

I'm also glad that the 50th effectively defused the Time War guilt for the Doctor. It's crazy to realise that the Time War now happened approximately 1/3 of his life ago.

pgroce
Oct 24, 2002


docbeard posted:

Resurrection is a mess, but it's the sort of mess I enjoy. Also the Daleks having to put up with a mercenary whose role appears to be to tell them "No, you idiots, THIS IS WHY YOU KEEP LOSING" will never not be funny.

At one point the BBC Worldwide sent a copy of Resurrection to the US (and elsewhere? IDK) with some extra scenes, but no special effects or music in the last half or so of the serial. That was the one I recorded off the air and watched repeatedly as a kid. It sounds like it would be laughable, but I found that it made the already stark events of the script even starker. Watching Tegan at the end reacting to the wrecked Daleks and people, then running away, all in silence, was really powerful. Watching it later with the music and sound effects kind of took me out of it, weirdly enough.

One thing commonly said about British TV of the era is that the 2-camera recording style promoted a more theatrical presentation. One thing theater does well is drive home seriousness with silence; that copy of Resurrection did that well, IMO. It would have been interesting to see it done as an actual artistic choice and not as an incidental part of the distribution.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


After The War posted:

Resurrection of the Dales


Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

After The War posted:

Resurrection of the Dales

No spoilers for the new season of Twin Peaks please!

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


After The War posted:

Resurrection of the Dales

With John Craven, Kate Humble and Ed Balls.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


Moff getting some sick burns in:

Steven Moffat posted:

I wrote to Russell when I was doing this. I said, 'I'm going to bring back one of your characters. Do you want the spoiler or not?' And he went, 'Tell me, tell me'.

I said, 'OK, it's John Simm's Master', and he goes, 'Oh my god, the dialogue, them meeting, brilliant, oh god, they're going to... aren't they?'

I said, 'It's a children's show. It's not Cucumber. We can't do that.'

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Oh, the world's not so crazy, Kolenkhov. It's the people in it. Life's pretty simple if you just relax.



I enjoy the idea of Russell T. Davies concocting soap opera-level twists to troll the next showrunner (she's pregnant!) via email, long after leaving the show. I'm glad it didn't make it in, though.

He's also been saying that he knows whom they've cast to play the Doctor, but he won't tell. He may be a giant, but he has the soul of a mischievous little boggart.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009


Bicyclops posted:

I enjoy the idea of Russell T. Davies concocting soap opera-level twists to troll the next showrunner (she's pregnant!) via email, long after leaving the show. I'm glad it didn't make it in, though.

He's also been saying that he knows whom they've cast to play the Doctor, but he won't tell. He may be a giant, but he has the soul of a mischievous little boggart.

He probably hides the remote control when his husband's out and spends the next hour giggling. Not because he's home and looking for it yet, just laughing at how funny it will be when he can't find it.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Oh, the world's not so crazy, Kolenkhov. It's the people in it. Life's pretty simple if you just relax.



He never raised his voice. That was the worst thing... the fury of the Time Lord... and then we discovered why. Why this Doctor, who had fought with gods and demons, why he had run away from us and hidden. He was being kind... He wrapped Steven Moffat in a simulation inside of a simulation, in which you cannot breathe or blink. He tricked Peter Harness into a refugee camp in a collapsing galaxy, to be imprisoned there... forever. He still visits Russell T. Davies once a year, every year. I wonder if one day he might be able to forgive him. But there he is, see? He trapped him inside the television. Every television. If you ever see a ridiculous twist on your favorite show and groan, that's him. That's always him. As for me, as for ol' Briggsy, I was suspended in time and the Doctor put me to work voicing the Daleks as their sound editor. We all wanted a Big Finish. So the Doctor made sure we got one.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


Bicyclops posted:

He never raised his voice. That was the worst thing... the fury of the Time Lord... and then we discovered why. Why this Doctor, who had fought with gods and demons, why he had run away from us and hidden. He was being kind... He wrapped Steven Moffat in a simulation inside of a simulation, in which you cannot breathe or blink. He tricked Peter Harness into a refugee camp in a collapsing galaxy, to be imprisoned there... forever. He still visits Russell T. Davies once a year, every year. I wonder if one day he might be able to forgive him. But there he is, see? He trapped him inside the television. Every television. If you ever see a ridiculous twist on your favorite show and groan, that's him. That's always him. As for me, as for ol' Briggsy, I was suspended in time and the Doctor put me to work voicing the Daleks as their sound editor. We all wanted a Big Finish. So the Doctor made sure we got one.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012


We've got this thing licked!



Bicyclops posted:

He never raised his voice. That was the worst thing... the fury of the Time Lord... and then we discovered why. Why this Doctor, who had fought with gods and demons, why he had run away from us and hidden. He was being kind... He wrapped Steven Moffat in a simulation inside of a simulation, in which you cannot breathe or blink. He tricked Peter Harness into a refugee camp in a collapsing galaxy, to be imprisoned there... forever. He still visits Russell T. Davies once a year, every year. I wonder if one day he might be able to forgive him. But there he is, see? He trapped him inside the television. Every television. If you ever see a ridiculous twist on your favorite show and groan, that's him. That's always him. As for me, as for ol' Briggsy, I was suspended in time and the Doctor put me to work voicing the Daleks as their sound editor. We all wanted a Big Finish. So the Doctor made sure we got one.

God drat.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


Bicyclops posted:

He never raised his voice. That was the worst thing... the fury of the Time Lord... and then we discovered why. Why this Doctor, who had fought with gods and demons, why he had run away from us and hidden. He was being kind... He wrapped Steven Moffat in a simulation inside of a simulation, in which you cannot breathe or blink. He tricked Peter Harness into a refugee camp in a collapsing galaxy, to be imprisoned there... forever. He still visits Russell T. Davies once a year, every year. I wonder if one day he might be able to forgive him. But there he is, see? He trapped him inside the television. Every television. If you ever see a ridiculous twist on your favorite show and groan, that's him. That's always him. As for me, as for ol' Briggsy, I was suspended in time and the Doctor put me to work voicing the Daleks as their sound editor. We all wanted a Big Finish. So the Doctor made sure we got one.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

I fought in
the Old Revolution
on the side of
the Ghosts and the King



Forktoss posted:

No spoilers for the new season of Twin Peaks please!

Wheat Loaf posted:

With John Craven, Kate Humble and Ed Balls.

I had been asked to turn out the light, so I was typing the dark, in addition to fighting to stay awake. The thread's been moving fast enough lately that I haven't been able to get timely responses in, so I felt I needed to finish it right then.


Wheat Loaf posted:

That's the thing - Saward was influenced by Bob Holmes and wanted to write Bob Holmes stories, but he had his own style and formula, which boiled down to "there's a badass mercenary gunslinger type, the Doctor is secondary to this character, and everybody dies at the end". "Caves" is Holmes writing a story using this formula, but it works a lot better than most of Saward's own efforts simply, I think, because Holmes was a better writer than Saward.

Oh yes, Saward's longing to be the next Robert Holmes is palpable (and best chronicled by our own Forktoss), but I can't stay mad at him - at least for his Davison stories. As a response to Cold War resurgence militarism and corporatism, it's the kind of Doctor Who I like.

There might be an 80s effortpost incoming, but I should probably get back to, y'know, work work.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


Jon Pertwee was born 98 years ago today

Man, that feels odd

Crusader
Apr 11, 2002

Progress that shields us from the terrors of an uncertain future.




Grimey Drawer

Bicyclops posted:

He never raised his voice. That was the worst thing... the fury of the Time Lord... and then we discovered why. Why this Doctor, who had fought with gods and demons, why he had run away from us and hidden. He was being kind... He wrapped Steven Moffat in a simulation inside of a simulation, in which you cannot breathe or blink. He tricked Peter Harness into a refugee camp in a collapsing galaxy, to be imprisoned there... forever. He still visits Russell T. Davies once a year, every year. I wonder if one day he might be able to forgive him. But there he is, see? He trapped him inside the television. Every television. If you ever see a ridiculous twist on your favorite show and groan, that's him. That's always him. As for me, as for ol' Briggsy, I was suspended in time and the Doctor put me to work voicing the Daleks as their sound editor. We all wanted a Big Finish. So the Doctor made sure we got one.

spectralent
Oct 1, 2014

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I SPENT FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND POUNDS STERLING ON PLASTIC SURGERY TO LOOK LIKE NOEL EDMONDS BEFORE FINDING OUT HE WASN'T NOEL FROM OASIS.


I finally watched the weekend episode. I liked it but it did feel like the character resolutions were way above the plot resolution.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Prawn 2012
Studying the art of Tetrasquillidae
To keep you safe


spectralent posted:

I finally watched the weekend episode. I liked it but it did feel like the character resolutions were way above the plot resolution.

Agreed. It was like a mini-Trenzalore.

"And then the Doctor stayed, to protect everyone from the Cybermen...until he told everyone to get the hell out and blew the Cybermen up. Then end."

I don't really mind, as I was WAY more wrapped up in Bill and Missy than the other people, but you're not wrong.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


Vinylshadow posted:

Jon Pertwee was born 98 years ago today

Man, that feels odd

He was in naval intelligence with Ian Fleming, Christopher Lee et al. during the war, wasn't he? I think there was an article about it when a bunch of files were declassified a couple of years ago; he reported directly to Churchill and Attlee, which is pretty cool.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


Wheat Loaf posted:

He was in naval intelligence with Ian Fleming, Christopher Lee et al. during the war, wasn't he? I think there was an article about it when a bunch of files were declassified a couple of years ago; he reported directly to Churchill and Attlee, which is pretty cool.
Pertwee, Lee and Cushing were all in "The House That Dripped Blood"

But one has to wonder how a film with their later performances would've been

The Doctor vs Grand Moff Tarkin and Ansem the Wise, or thereabouts

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Man I wish Christopher Lee played the Doctor once in his life.


I don't know what that would have been like, but it would have been amazing

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

"I saw Dallas Keuchel....THERE'S A BEARD!!!!!"


He'd have made a better Master than a Doctor.

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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


Imagine some alternate timeline where the BBC weren't interested in Doctor Who in the 60s so Sidney Newman et al. took it to Hammer Film Productions instead, and either Cushing or Lee played the Doctor, and it becomes this long-running cult film series.

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