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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012



I wouldn't even say Holmes loses in "A Scandal In Bohemia". He correctly solves the problem, it's just that Adler manages to be that little bit sharper than him and gets one step ahead where it counts.

I think the only story where Holmes "fails" in the sense that he completely gets his conclusion wrong is "The Adventure of the Yellow Face".

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corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

one cat, one vote, one beer


Burkion posted:

Wait what


*WHY*

and she falls in love with him, too!

Hemingway To Go!
Nov 10, 2008



Burkion posted:

Wait what


*WHY*

if you don't want to watch the show, hbomberguy's "sherlock sucks and here's why" video goes through all the bad things that particular episode did and why it sucked. I don't remember the details but had the episodes on as background noise and even I thouht the Irene Adler depiction was pretty awful.

sherlock honestly holds up a lot less than modern doctor who does if you're paying attention and like mysteries, or care deeply about any character besides sherlock himself. At least Who is fantastical and about a lot more than how smart the Doctor is.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.


Burkion posted:

Wait what


*WHY*

As he says, it's to show how clever and infalliable Sherlock is. It's really lovely too.

The gist of it is Irene Adler's a dominatrix (professional alias, "The Woman") who has saucy photos of her with a princess (go with it), locked on her phone (and then later it's government documents that would be embarassing or something). It loosely plays out as it does in the original story (Sherlock comes to her house disguised as a priest, and tricks her into revealing where it's hidden, etc), and he manages to get hold of the phone and tries vainly to crack the four digit code, every time it fails coming up with "****-LOCKED".

There's other stuff involving the governmental documents, but anyway, Mycroft strikes a deal with her, and she's about to walk away having bested him, then Holmes is like "Ah I know, you're obsessed with me, so it can only be SHER-LOCKED, lol you people and feelings lol".

And then there's a weird epilogue where it cuts between Sherlock sitting forlornly in his flat thinking about her, and her about to be beheaded in middle east, with her discussed in the past tense, but Sherlock is disguised as an executioner and saves her.

It's such an odd choice even though it wouldn't take much to keep it closer to the original story. Like, they could have had her walk away, having bested Sherlock and Mycroft, and Sherlock later sitting in the flat thinking about her, and receives an ambiguous text from her or something I don't know.

[e]: Also Davros1 and Wheat Loaf, definitetly gonna look up the Clive Merrison Sherlock and Michael Caine Ripper things, respectively.

[e2]: Oh yeah, I know, I've seen it.
VVV

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at Oct 14, 2017 around 22:49

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Pesky Splinter posted:


[e]: Also Davros1 and Wheat Loaf, definitetly gonna look up the Clive Merrison Sherlock and Michael Caine Ripper things, respectively.

Micael Caine and Ben Kingsley starred in a fun Holmes film called "Without a Clue" where it turns out Watson is the brilliant detective who turns his adventures into stories starring a fictional detective name Holmes. When the public demanded to meet Holmes, he hired an out of work actor to play Holmes.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012



The new series of feature-length adaptations of Maigret novels on the ITV starring Rowan Atkinson as Maigret are also quite good. Only been three so far; two last year, the third this Easter and the fourth out this November.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Wheat Loaf posted:

The new series of feature-length adaptations of Maigret novels on the ITV starring Rowan Atkinson as Maigret are also quite good. Only been three so far; two last year, the third this Easter and the fourth out this November.

Oh yeah, they’re surprisingly good. I wish they’d do an actual series, and not just have them on random holidays.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Who ties the Zarbi’s plimsoles?

https://twitter.com/stuart_manning/...163155749761026

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

I fought in
the Old Revolution
on the side of
the Ghosts and the King



I think we're about to see the greatest musical number of all time!

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012



The_Doctor posted:

Oh yeah, they’re surprisingly good. I wish they’d do an actual series, and not just have them on random holidays.

The one from 1992 with Michael Gambon as Maigret is also good. Another Granada production, like Adventures of Sherlock Holmes.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

Boomerang Arrow. It comes back to you in the end. Boomerang respect it.


Davros1 posted:

Micael Caine and Ben Kingsley starred in a fun Holmes film called "Without a Clue" where it turns out Watson is the brilliant detective who turns his adventures into stories starring a fictional detective name Holmes. When the public demanded to meet Holmes, he hired an out of work actor to play Holmes.

Iron Man 3?

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Oh, the world's not so crazy, Kolenkhov. It's the people in it. Life's pretty simple if you just relax.



Tom Baker's first season is so goddamn good. I don't care how much everyone hates Robot, I love it. The Ark in Space is great. The Sontaran Experiment is pretty silly, but it's treated that way. Genesis of the Daleks is one of the best Daleks stories. So many good quotes.

The Brigadier: Naturally enough, the only country that could be trusted with [monitoring international nuclear codes] was Great Britain.
The Doctor : Naturally! I mean... the rest were all foreigners!

The Doctor: You never know when these bits and pieces will come in handy, Harry. Never throw anything away. (Absently throws something away.)

[[Tom Baker's delivery on his long list of the kinds of clocks he likes.]]

The Doctor: Well, now he's gone, any chance of a cup of tea?
Secret Police Guy: What?
The Doctor: Or coffee. My friend and I have had a very trying experience. Haven't we had a trying experience, Harry?
Harry: Very trying, Doctor.
Secret Police Guy: Step into the security scan!
The Doctor: (holding Harry back) What, no tea?
Secret police Guy: Let me point out to you that you have no rights whatsoever. I have full authority to torture and kill any prisoner who does not comply absolutely with my orders. That is your first and last warning.
The Doctor: No tea, Harry.

The Doctor: Hello, can you help me? I'm a spy.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


Robot is great, but I can see why some people don't like it as much as the amazing stuff that follows. It's very much a Jon Pertwee story with a completely different kind of Doctor jammed into it (which is the point, of course, it marks the changing of the guard) and the special effects are incredibly awful even considering the time in which it was made.

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005



Bicyclops posted:

Genesis of the Daleks is one of the best Daleks stories. So many good quotes.

OTOH it has that bit where the Doctor is allegedly trying to convince a room of people about what a threat the Daleks are and I don't think there's another moment where it's quite so obviously 9:57pm and all he can care about is which pubs he can reach before the lock-in starts.

McGann
May 18, 2003

Get up you son of a bitch! 'Cause Mickey loves you!



LividLiquid posted:

angry angry angry

Wow, there is a lot of projection going on here. I'm going to assume you had a bad day. Feel better dude

Tim Burns Effect posted:

Is Nick Briggs a good Holmes? I think I bought one of BF's releases years ago but i never got around to actually listening to it

I really like Briggs in the BF Holmes stories. Plus, knowing he is a huge fan makes it more enjoyable to me as I just imagine he's having an absolute blast playing the character.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

He who fights shitposters should see to it that he himself does not become a shitposter. And if you gaze for long into an anidavatar, the anidavatar gazes also into you.

Pesky Splinter posted:

Hbomberguy did quite a good video on it (and also links it tangentially to Doctor Who), although he does get some things wrong in their relation to the original books (I can't recall what off the top of my head).
He assumes they were fair-play mysteries when they frequently weren't.

The Holmes in the Consulting Detective boardgames is a cheating arsehole too.

Burkion
May 10, 2012


Doctor Spaceman posted:

He assumes they were fair-play mysteries when they frequently weren't.

The Holmes in the Consulting Detective boardgames is a cheating arsehole too.

They still weren't as full up their own rear end as Sherlock though.

But yeah a good chunk of the original novels absolutely did not give you the keys to the mystery. Especially when it was one where Sherlock himself was barely in the story and doing a bunch of poo poo off page, like Hounds.

I finally watched that video though and yeah, his complaints ring 100% true on the stupidity of the show. Christ I didn't know they did a Hounds episode and the fact that they did *THAT* to it is just

And then the Irene stuff.

Just

How Moffat. How

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so

Bicyclops posted:

Genesis of the Daleks is one of the best Daleks stories.

It obviously is, but the Doctor's line at the end rubs me the wrong way. "Something good probably came out of it too, I guess" is kind of a lame excuse for letting a race of genocidal cyber-Nazis launch a generations-long galactic reign of terror, especially when that wasn't the point debated in the "Do I have the right?" scene. The Doctor let the Daleks live because he thought genocide is wrong, end of*, not because allowing them exterminate half the galaxy might make the other half band together out of fear, and trying to explain that decision away as the latter undermines the moral conflict at the heart of that scene and the whole serial. You made a principled decision, Doctor, so own up to it.

(and even then the Thals blew the whole quandary up before he had the chance to act on his decision)

EDIT: *except Vervoids

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Oh, the world's not so crazy, Kolenkhov. It's the people in it. Life's pretty simple if you just relax.



Forktoss posted:

It obviously is, but the Doctor's line at the end rubs me the wrong way. "Something good probably came out of it too, I guess" is kind of a lame excuse for letting a race of genocidal cyber-Nazis launch a generations-long galactic reign of terror, especially when that wasn't the point debated in the "Do I have the right?" scene. The Doctor let the Daleks live because he thought genocide is wrong, end of*, not because allowing them exterminate half the galaxy might make the other half band together out of fear, and trying to explain that decision away as the latter undermines the moral conflict at the heart of that scene and the whole serial. You made a principled decision, Doctor, so own up to it.

(and even then the Thals blew the whole quandary up before he had the chance to act on his decision)

EDIT: *except Vervoids

He does discuss it briefly within the "Do I have the right?" scene (something about how, after all, lots of civilizations have banded together over the centuries to fight the Daleks, etc.), but yeah, it's the weakest of his points, behind "Genocide is just wrong, entirely," and "If I commit genocide on the Daleks, I will be no better than them." It's definitely not a great line to close on. Maybe he was just trying to set Sarah Jane and Harry's minds at rest, because after all, they did just have a very trying experience, with no tea.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


Bicyclops posted:

He does discuss it briefly within the "Do I have the right?" scene (something about how, after all, lots of civilizations have banded together over the centuries to fight the Daleks, etc.), but yeah, it's the weakest of his points, behind "Genocide is just wrong, entirely," and "If I commit genocide on the Daleks, I will be no better than them." It's definitely not a great line to close on. Maybe he was just trying to set Sarah Jane and Harry's minds at rest, because after all, they did just have a very trying experience, with no tea.

Now I want Twelve to go back and meet his past selves and teach them the fine art of Pocket Tea in case of emergencies

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


Forktoss posted:

It obviously is, but the Doctor's line at the end rubs me the wrong way. "Something good probably came out of it too, I guess" is kind of a lame excuse for letting a race of genocidal cyber-Nazis launch a generations-long galactic reign of terror, especially when that wasn't the point debated in the "Do I have the right?" scene. The Doctor let the Daleks live because he thought genocide is wrong, end of*, not because allowing them exterminate half the galaxy might make the other half band together out of fear, and trying to explain that decision away as the latter undermines the moral conflict at the heart of that scene and the whole serial. You made a principled decision, Doctor, so own up to it.

(and even then the Thals blew the whole quandary up before he had the chance to act on his decision)

EDIT: *except Vervoids

To be fair, wiping out Pip and Jane Baker wouldn't be genocide.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.



Dr Who really wants you to have his badges

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


Pesky Splinter posted:


Dr Who really wants you to have his badges

Two different drawings of pertwee in the same advert, both of them looking nothing like him. Top work.

sinepost
Nov 16, 2004

four o'clock and all's well


At least the picture on the cereal box offers a tantalising glimpse into a parallel universe where Pertwee regenerated into Tom O'Connor of Crosswits fame.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012



Pesky Splinter posted:


Dr Who really wants you to have his badges

"I is a Big Friendly Giant... THE BFG!"

Jon Pertwee would've been a great Willy Wonka. Imagine if Carol Reed had made that instead of Oliver!

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014



Wheat Loaf posted:

"I is a Big Friendly Giant... THE BFG!"

Jon Pertwee would've been a great Willy Wonka. Imagine if Carol Reed had made that instead of Oliver!

Jon Pertwee would have made a good lots of things.

Now I'm imagining him as Kurtz in Apocalypse Now.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012



CommonShore posted:

Jon Pertwee would have made a good lots of things.

Now I'm imagining him as Kurtz in Apocalypse Now.

He was Jimmy Perry and David Croft's first choice to play Captain Mainwaring in Dad's Army. I imagine he would have ended up taking it in a different direction from Arthur Lowe.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

ACTION DUCK
Strikes Back





Pesky Splinter posted:


Dr Who really wants you to have his badges

this is not three it is a madman who wants to eat your face off your skull








maybe they mistook him for tom

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Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


Pesky Splinter posted:


Dr Who really wants you to have his badges

You know that Peter Capaldi has all 6...

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