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That's just me being bad at math. But yeah, that was a common problem. People would commission, say, a pin up, and then ask for one more character to go with it, because it's only one more character how hard can it be?
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Jul 26, 2017 16:57
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Lareine posted:Really? Skunks? Is that what all the furries who like farts/BO end up being? A complete subset of Tiny Toons watchers. Did you have any problems with people stealing your work and calling it their own?
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Jul 26, 2017 18:42
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Not really, no. Had a few people steal my MLP art (the clean ones), but mostly no one tried to steal my fetish art. There's pretty good policing in the fetish community for that sort of thing tho, and my clients were quite fond of me because of how I ran my business, so they were more vicious than most when it came to art theft. Kinda a double edged sword, because while no one really tried to steal my stuff, I also had white knights who were kinda creepily into "preserving my honor".
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Jul 26, 2017 19:14
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Sociopastry posted:I also had white knights who were kinda creepily into "preserving my honor". This is the cringe that I came to hear about.  Please elaborate.
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Jul 28, 2017 06:31
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Hoooooo boy. Strap in, folks. So, like always on the internet, if you appear/identify as female, there's always gonna be creepers. Now, creepers come in many varieties. There's the standard, blatant creeper, there's the aggressive angry creepers... and then there's the white knights. Anyone who's played video games online has probably encountered one. Now, when you add fetish culture into the mix, suddenly there's a particular miasma of creepy that's unique in its awfulness. Now, as I've stated- I'm generally a pretty sex positive/non judgmental person. Generally, as long as your fetish isn't hurting anyone, I don't really care what you get a boner to. That goes doubly if I'm being paid. I also didn't really make it a secret that I identified as female at the time. I didn't flaunt it, either, but I have a pretty feminine name and my paypal is under it. As a result, I got some white knights. Now, usually, white knights aren't too bad. A little cringey. Most of them would just comment on my posted work with "M'lady, truly you are the best at drawing dragon cock" or whatever. And honestly, it seemed like an unspoken rule among them not to blatantly hit on me. The rare occasions when one of them did, the others would dog-pile on them pretty much immediately, with really cringey things about how I was "above such vulgarity". No, I'm not kidding. Some even took to calling me Goddess and offering money as tributes. It was weird. I mean, free weed money, but still weird. Anyway, after a while, there was a problem with some art thieves on the sites I used. Nothing unusual- it's the kind of poo poo you see on places like deviantart. Some dumb kid decides that the best way to get popular is to take someone else's art, trace it/recolor it, and call it their own. Annoying, but not anything that's as bad as taking art and selling it, y'know. Anyway, one of these recolorists saw my work and didn't quite think things through. I was fairly popular at that point, and my work pretty well known. So it was obvious that they'd traced and recolored my work, expecially since it was some of my more... distinct work. Now, usually, I'd just report them and move on, whatever. Those white knights I told you about? The ones that had taken to calling me "Goddess" and getting really weird? They did not simply move on. Instead, they launched a massive campaign against the poor kid, and I mean massive. I made multiple posts asking them to stop, but they were "protecting my honor", in their eyes. They harassed that poor kid for months, even after I'd made multiple posts saying to leave off and that the kid had apologized and we were cool. It took me getting in touch with the site's admins before anything was done. The majority of the creepier white knights were banned, but a few remained and laid low until everything had blown over. So that's why you should just say you're male online if you're in the fetish community.
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Jul 28, 2017 07:31
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Sociopastry posted:... This is always good practice for any erotic-leaning, fetish-accepting activity online. Especially if you are 100% straight woman irl and want to preserve your sexual sanity.
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Jul 28, 2017 23:55
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Do you think it affected the stuff you're into? I'm not asking for specific examples, but I'm curious about how seeing the weird poo poo makes you go deeper.
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Jul 30, 2017 19:13
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No, not at all, really. I am fairly vanilla, and was at the time, as well. At most it made me less self conscious of my body/body issues because if someone can get a boner to cumdragontaur then me and my stretch marks are probably just fine.
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Jul 30, 2017 20:18
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I can't think of any questions, but this thread is absolutely fascinating, and hilarious. Thank you for sharing
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Jul 31, 2017 00:08
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Sociopastry posted:if someone can get a boner to cumdragontaur then me and my stretch marks are probably just fine. This should be embroidered on pillows and sold in stores.
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Jul 31, 2017 02:31
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I'm put it on a shirt but I think it'd get my redbubble store taken down
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Jul 31, 2017 02:51
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Just put a copyrighted character on it first.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:58
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You could boil it down to "There are worse fetishes out there" with a footnote. When fetish art was your primary income, about how many hours a week did you put into it? Did you ever struggle to get enough work to make ends meet? Did you do any live-streaming?
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Aug 1, 2017 21:05
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IMJack posted:You could boil it down to "There are worse fetishes out there" with a footnote. I put about 30-40 hours a week into it- as much as a full time job. I mostly did this in between shifts at my actual, lovely, retail job. My retail job didn't even pay me enough for me to buy food, let alone pay rent. So into the fetish rabbithole (  ) I went. There were a few times at the beginning, before I was well known and had a following where I spent a lot of sleepless nights trying to figure out how I was gonna survive two weeks on a bag of bread (which my lovely roomates ate the next day, but that's a different sad story) and also pay rent. Luckily, once I started getting more niche commissions and more loyal clients, I didn't have to worry about things as much. Well, at least, not things related to money. I did do some live streaming, but never once showed my face. The most my clients got was a stream of me working on whatever commission it was that week, while music played over it. I couldn't do my voice because most of the time I was laughing or making fun of the fetish, which would have been suicide for my little art trade. A lot of working in the fetish community is playing nice and being as inoffensive/pleasant as possible. There's a lot of weirder, grosser rules for conduct if you're female/female presenting, though, which I won't get into very much because it'd be a six paragraph angry feminist diatribe. Suffice to say a lot of it was just "never make someone lose their boner".
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Aug 1, 2017 22:47
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I mean, uh, I'd be happy with six paragraphs of angry feminist diatribe about terrible nerd social rules but it's your thread of course.
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Aug 2, 2017 09:06
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OwlFancier posted:I mean, uh, I'd be happy with six paragraphs of angry feminist diatribe about terrible nerd social rules but it's your thread of course. Seconded.
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Aug 2, 2017 18:44
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hooooooo boy strap the gently caress in then, folks, we're going on a loving ride. Before I start tho, I'm just gonna say that if one goddamn person chimes in with #notallmen I'm just gonna assume that you're one of the people that wanted the lactating cumdragon commission. Alright so there's a lot of unsavory fuckin poo poo when it comes to treatment of women/feminine presenting peeps in the fetish community. I'm gonna be mostly mentioning women here, but it applies to anyone perceived as/presenting in a feminine way, my own nonbinary rear end included. There's a few base categories that the unsavory treatment of women falls into; there's the peeps that think that all women are whores/objects who only exist for the pleasure and titillation of men, there's the peeps that think all women are somehow "other" and either elevate them to an unsustainable level/put them on a pedestal, and there's the ones that fall into a mix of the two. Now, a lot of porn is focused (unfortunately) on the idea that women exist only as seen through the lens of men's pleasure. This is especially true in niche fetish communities. Now, I myself didn't appear in pornography, but because I directly was involved in the creation of it, I had to deal with a lot of really hosed up things, and observed other female fetish artists dealing with the same. Most people are familiar with the idea of a Madonna-whore complex. For those of you that aren't, I'll give you a brief rundown. The idea is that women fall into two categories- either they're a virginal Madonna-like saintly figure, untouched by carnal desires and therefore better or above everyone, or they're a whore, who only exist to sate sexual desires and therefore have no intrinsic worth as a human being. This black and white view of women is dangerous for a number of reasons, but the base problem with it is the "othering" of women. They're pushed into a category where they're not humans, with complex feelings, desires, dreams and personalities, but rather a fetish/icon of worship and are not allowed out of whatever category they fall in, lest they be punished severely for it. The fetish community isn't immune from this problem, and it actually mixes with the sexually charged nature of the community and mixes to become a problem for women in the community. It doesn't matter what they do, they'll inevitably piss someone off and then the hunt is on. I knew of one particular artist who actually ended up having to completely nuke her online presence because her fans found out she had a boyfriend, and began doxxing her, sending death threats, and even posting pictures of her house online. And that wasn't an uncommon thing to happen. So generally, you'd have women in the community lean one way heavily and do their best to play the role they'd chosen for their own personal safety. I mentioned in a previous post about the creepy white knights that started calling me "Goddess" against my wishes and were generally super creepy. I didn't mention a lot of the harassment that came with it, precisely because I didn't wanna go into a massive tangent, but there was a lot of really abhorrent things that were done. I got a lot of inappropriate messages, such as picture messages of the business fursona I made printed out with cum all over it, a picture of someone slapping their dick on my profile page, some guy sent me a video of him loving himself with a dildo and begging me to kill/castrate him for daring to think of me sexually... It was really gross and hosed up and I ended up having to go over a lot of the worst poo poo in therapy. Anyway, I was an example of people considering me a "Madonna" figure, because I didn't actively participate in the pornography- some fetish artists create a fursona that they then kinda whore out by saying "for X amount of money I'll draw your fursona loving mine". I chose not to do that, because 1.) I didn't want to and 2.) I had a SO at the time. (He turned out to be horribly abusive but I was loyal anyway.  )On top of that, you'd have the men who'd have an unhealthy interest in taking women "down a peg". I mentioned the person who wanted to turn the smart, bookish pony into a gently caress-toy bimbo pony. He was one of these, but a lot of other men in the community acted the same way towards the women in the community. They'd often search for anything- anything at all, even a single throwaway sentence in a single forum post- to use to demonize her and start a witch hunt for her. They'd spend all their time trying to get these women to either beg forgiveness for whatever the perceived slight was, or trying to ruin her business/presence in the community by spreading hate or lies. The woman I mentioned earlier was one of these- one man had found a post she'd made on a forum that had mentioned she was going to see her boyfriend so they could go on vacation somewhere- obviously something innocuous. But that man took it, clipped the context out, and brought it to her rabid fanbase, many of which also treated her as a Madonna. The knowledge that this woman was an adult with her own life in a happy relationship loving enraged them, and they did what I mentioned above. I made very sure after that to never, ever, ever mention anything about my social life, and indeed used completely different usernames/details than my actual life. I used a pseudonym, posted often fake things about my life that would keep me safe and the more worrysome of my fans plactated... It was just a shitshow. At this point, I'd never ever go back to drawing fetish art unless I was truly desperate, and even then, I think I'd make a new persona to post under- a masculine one, for safety.
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Aug 2, 2017 20:12
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That certainly is not an element I was quite getting from your previous posts  Not sure I would have the patience not to start murdering people at that point to be honest.
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Aug 2, 2017 21:10
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Not gonna even touch that because holy poo poo Did Patreon exist/was it a real thing when you were drawing? I'm imagining that artists who primarily get their revenue via Patreon can probably stick to less sanity-shredding stuff because they're trying to appeal to a broader audience, but I don't know how the economics work and it might be that you have to do commissions instead of/in addition to Patreon to put bread on the table.
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Aug 2, 2017 21:17
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OwlFancier posted:That certainly is not an element I was quite getting from your previous posts You'll do a lot of unsavory poo poo if you're hungry enough. I was... not in a good place when I was doing this. cheetah7071 posted:Not gonna even touch that because holy poo poo Patreon wasn't a thing until after I stopped doing fetish work. At the time I was working, it was very much just a "be as active as possible, cater to fans, get commissions" type of thing. There were some people making monthly commissions, but those were usually the people making fursuits and other more intensive work. The problem with Patreon is that it's mostly meant for less NSFW stuff, although I know a few fetish artists make quite good money on it. (Fek is a good example, I think he's almost at 8000$ a month at this point? He was really active in the community for years before patreon was a thing, though.) Mostly, though, for patreon, you need things that aren't just commissions to entice people. Fek, for instance, used to do just pinups/comics, but then he segued into porn games and the like, which is a much more lucrative market. There's a few other examples of that, but I can't give names without outing my pseudonym, because we were part of an artist's ring to help protect each other. I'm still in contact with a few people. It is a little weird to explain how I met some of my friends. Most of the people in our ring were people who were just trying to put food on the table and were also real good at drawin dongers.
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Aug 2, 2017 21:35
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Yeah by "less sanity-fraying" I meant like, vanilla porn, not high art or whatever. Or at least a fetish that doesn't make you hate yourself.
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Aug 2, 2017 21:42
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oh. Yeah, no, you need some kind of hook. Fek makes games and a lot of semi-niche fetishes (size difference, cum, tickling, a few other ones that I remember from a few times we worked together), someone else uses animation for hers, a third person does only vore, that kind of thing. You can't really make decent money doing only vanilla porn/pin ups, you need to cater to people with more income than sense who need special boner attention. That's the down side to things. It's more rare to see someone with vanilla porn making good money, because usually people who are into just plain vanilla porn (with furries, obv) are more likely to just look up free stuff or just watch actual porn.
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Aug 2, 2017 21:47
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Sociopastry posted:You'll do a lot of unsavory poo poo if you're hungry enough. I was... not in a good place when I was doing this. I am not remotely blaming you, merely admiring your ability to not devolve into a flailing lunatic which is my usual response to that sort of environment.
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Aug 2, 2017 21:50
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I went into therapy for other reasons but man there was a lot of working through stuff about the work, too. My therapist didn't judge me, but she did go a little at some of my stories.
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Aug 2, 2017 21:53
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Sociopastry posted:(Fek is a good example, I think he's almost at 8000$ a month at this point? He was really active in the community for years before patreon was a thing, though.) After a quick Google search it looks like this person is making over $25k goddamn dollars a month.
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Aug 2, 2017 22:05
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oh nice, he must have released his new game, then. good for him. He was working on a pretty massive project around the time I stopped working, good to hear he's doing well. He's a pretty okay guy, all in all.
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Aug 2, 2017 22:14
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Jacobus Spades posted:After a quick Google search it looks like this person is making over $25k goddamn dollars a month. They show $25k in pledges, but how many of those pledges actually come through is another matter. Between credit cards being denied and assholes who revoke their pledges right before pay time, the artists might not see nearly that much. And Patreon takes a pretty good cut, of course. I've seen several people who want to do art full time and depend on commissions and Patreon, but due to circumstances or a lack of effort on their part, it just doesn't do what they hoped it would. Half of being an artist is being able to sell your art, after all - for all definitions of "sell".
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Aug 2, 2017 22:52
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Sociopastry posted:Before I start tho, I'm just gonna say that if one goddamn person chimes in with #notallmen I'm just gonna assume that you're one of the people that wanted the lactating cumdragon commission. Do you think your experiences drawing fetish porn has changed your opinion of men in general? And for clarity, I don't mean that in a 'you're prejudiced!' way, I mean in more of a 'I have peeled back the curtain of civilisation and now I know the darkness of men's hearts' kind of way.
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Aug 3, 2017 00:48
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jabby posted:Do you think your experiences drawing fetish porn has changed your opinion of men in general? Oh, kinda. I already kinda had a low opinion of most folks due to a bad background but doing fetish art did kinda make that worse. I'm working on trusting people again.
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Aug 3, 2017 02:10
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Sociopastry posted:Oh, kinda. I already kinda had a low opinion of most folks due to a bad background but doing fetish art did kinda make that worse. I'm working on trusting people again. I've been happily following this thread a long and it has been making me want to open up a companion A/T version from the other side of the coin in terms of fetish art commissions. However, seeing how miserable dealing with the crowd of freaks has has been for you has me thinking twice. I knew some artists wouldn't want to touch their patrons with a 40 foot poll on a good day and some were positively repulsed but you're story doesn't even sound that abnormally bad(in comparison to the wider dramasphere) but still devastating to your mental/emotional health. D.Ork Bimboolean fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 03:36
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Sociopastry posted:I couldn't do my voice because most of the time I was laughing or making fun of the fetish, which would have been suicide for my little art trade.
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Aug 3, 2017 07:12
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D.Ork Bimboolean posted:I've been happily following this thread a long and it has been making me want to open up a companion A/T version from the other side of the coin in terms of fetish art commissions. There were also a ton of mostly okay people who just happened to have weird fetishes- fish guy's the best example, but mostly things were okay. I just don't post as much about the more mundane/boring ones because they're just that- boring. I think probably I wouldn't have been as affected, but my background and the fact that I didn't set up and keep boundaries meant that I kinda got royally hosed in the headspace. I was also dealing with some... very bad poo poo that was going on at the time, so that probably didn't help. Maybe if I went back now, it wouldn't be as bad, but I just don't really feel like doing it again. Elukka posted:Hey I bet that's someone's fetish. It absolutely is. It's pretty common, too. See dominatrixes and the like. There's a lot of "please step on me/tell me I'm pathetic/insult me", and moreso if you're an attractive feminine person who can pull of the whole royal vibe. Maybe one day if I need money I'll just open a findom thing and insult sad nerds for money.
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Aug 3, 2017 07:30
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What was the weirdest correction/fix someone asked for on one of your pieces? I'm always interested in how goddamn specific these fetishes can be and what tiny details make commissioners lose their boners.
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Aug 3, 2017 08:54
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Sociopastry posted:There were also a ton of mostly okay people who just happened to have weird fetishes- fish guy's the best example, but mostly things were okay. I just don't post as much about the more mundane/boring ones because they're just that- boring. What was the most boring commission you ever got? Like, did you get any "draw me a woman with [mundane features x, y, and z] doing [completely normal day to day activity with no overt sexual overtones at all]  " requests?
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Aug 3, 2017 14:46
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Antivehicular posted:What was the weirdest correction/fix someone asked for on one of your pieces? I'm always interested in how goddamn specific these fetishes can be and what tiny details make commissioners lose their boners. I can't think of a specific instance, but mostly it was the fursona ones that were the worst- some of the furries are extremely specific about their fursonas, down to exact placement of markings, exact length of fur in some areas etc. I did have one guy who was extremely specific on how he wanted the cum/slime mixture to look, tho. His thing was slime girls and he really, really wanted to make it clear that she'd just been bukkake'd and it wasn't just that she was very slimy. Bronies are some of the worst, too. They're extremely loving picky and I hate working for them. Even now, when I need a little extra money I'll usually do quick clean MLP commissions because they sell the easiest/fastest and I loving hate dealing with bronies. You can tell the difference between someone who likes the show for nostalgia reasons/just because it's a cute thing/their kid watches it, and a brony. Fuckin' hate bronies. Straight White Shark posted:What was the most boring commission you ever got? Like, did you get any "draw me a woman with [mundane features x, y, and z] doing [completely normal day to day activity with no overt sexual overtones at all] I had one dude that wanted me to just draw a lady in a business suit, fully clothed, just sitting in a desk chair and looking vaguely annoyed. I liked that one, because it was literally just like doing a portrait or something. Nice palate cleanser after cumponies.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:19
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Just how cummy does a picture have to get before it moves out of regular porn and into cum fetish territory?
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Aug 4, 2017 01:48
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about three teaspoons. mosre seriously- if it looks like someone sprayed her with pop tart frosting, it's probably a fetish piece.
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Aug 4, 2017 02:10
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Sociopastry posted:about three teaspoons. A single tablespoon!?!?!   With skills like this, could I work the fetish scene?
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Aug 4, 2017 03:52
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Sociopastry, ever been asked to use a celebrity as a face or body model? Like, “please draw a trumptaur ejaculating clowns” sort of thing.
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Aug 4, 2017 12:49
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Sociopastry posted:I had one dude that wanted me to just draw a lady in a business suit, fully clothed, just sitting in a desk chair and looking vaguely annoyed. A self-portrait?
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Aug 4, 2017 22:45
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