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Gigi Galli
Sep 19, 2003

OH LOOK MY HEROES RETIRED ON A LOW BECAUSE THEY'RE SHIT, MAYBE THIS IS A SIGN FOR ME TO RETIRE AS A MOD TO EMULATE MY HEROES?


Feels Villeneuve posted:

Well that's kind of happening in Germany with the extremely fake RB Leipzig team so it's not doing a very good job of that.

It's happening right now with AC Milan as well. They've already broken the Italian net transfer record and are still signing more players, but they're a traditional "big" club in Italy so it's less insane sounding to a lot of people.

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3 DONG HORSE
May 21, 2008

I'd like to thank Satan for everything he's done for this organization


dont be mean to me posted:

Let me get this straight.

Fifteen million people deserve to be murdered horribly.

The world deserves to be driven to the brink of global war.

Human rights deserve to be flushed down the toilet even harder than usual.

All so whatever team your sad rear end watches play a kid's game stand a half-percent chance of drawing in journeymen. Not even all-stars.

What is wrong with you?!

If you are an actual LA sports fan then, yes, a nuke is the only appropriate action right now.

e: it's the only way to save ourselves from Magic

3 DONG HORSE fucked around with this message at Jul 14, 2017 around 15:11

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

by Smythe


First, nuke all cities.

Second, there's never been full parity in sports, or at least the four major US sports. More importantly, there's no real desire for full parity. Leagues benefit from having their best players playing in their most important and most visible games.

I think one of the major changes is that it's always been easy to sell the good teams, but we're starting to see that you can sell being a really bad team, i.e. trust the process. It's obviously good to be a championship team, but it's also good to be a godawful team because it accelerates a rebuild. The middle is death and that's where hope dies, where you're not good enough to truly content for a title but not bad enough to acquire a cheap gamechanger unless you get really lucky.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


The actual death is to be the Cleveland Browns or Toronto Maple Leafs, where you have a die-hard fanbase and an owner who knows that he doesn't have to actually try to win titles to make lots of money, because the fans won't stop going to games.

Probably Magic
Oct 9, 2012

(multiple lives not included)


Has LA been nuked yet? I'm very impatient.

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



Feels Villeneuve posted:

The actual death is to be the Cleveland Browns or Toronto Maple Leafs, where you have a die-hard fanbase and an owner who knows that he doesn't have to actually try to win titles to make lots of money, because the fans won't stop going to games.

The browns are....complicated.

I imagine the fans are also terrified about 1995 happening again so they continue to support them through the thinnest of times. You also have a media class in this city that refuses to be patient with front offices, coaches, and players. While a lot of those i just typed have flat out sucked? There's a lot of other stories where a young QB was rushed into playing time behind a poo poo o-line and pretty much broke the guy's spirit.

I think being in a division like the current AFC North is also a problem. Pre-Roethlisberger, Pre-Flacco? They made progress. They were in the playoffs within 3 years of their existence. I've seen "meh" teams make the playoffs several times. But the Browns rarely get that opprotunity because you have two freak of nature good franchises above them hogging the title and wildcard spot. Not to mention the Bengals.

iospace
Apr 20, 2020




Grimey Drawer

FuzzySkinner posted:

The browns are....complicated.

I imagine the fans are also terrified about 1995 happening again so they continue to support them through the thinnest of times. You also have a media class in this city that refuses to be patient with front offices, coaches, and players. While a lot of those i just typed have flat out sucked? There's a lot of other stories where a young QB was rushed into playing time behind a poo poo o-line and pretty much broke the guy's spirit.

I think being in a division like the current AFC North is also a problem. Pre-Roethlisberger, Pre-Flacco? They made progress. They were in the playoffs within 3 years of their existence. I've seen "meh" teams make the playoffs several times. But the Browns rarely get that opprotunity because you have two freak of nature good franchises above them hogging the title and wildcard spot. Not to mention the Bengals.

Right now, it's the Packers, Seahawks, Patriots, Steelers/Ravens, (formerly) Saints, (formerly) Colts, and (formerly) Broncos shows in their divisions in recent years. The only division without a dynasty at the division championship level has been the NFC East with a revolving door between all four.

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



iospace posted:

Right now, it's the Packers, Seahawks, Patriots, Steelers/Ravens, (formerly) Saints, (formerly) Colts, and (formerly) Broncos shows in their divisions in recent years. The only division without a dynasty at the division championship level has been the NFC East with a revolving door between all four.

It helps when there's like one dynasty in division.

generally when that happens? you can kinda have random teams occasionally get on hot runs and wind up in the playoffs. I think when Roethlisberger and Brady retire? The AFC as a whole will be interesting to see play out.

patonthebach
Aug 22, 2016

Border Patrol


I really do feel there is tremendous parity today in three of the major sports. When it comes to the playoffs, it really could be any team winning it in the MLB or NHL. NFL is a close third as sometimes (more so during the regular season) an underdog can really surprise you and beat a great team with a few well timed turnover recoveries.

NBA has really just gone to poo poo for parity. It's hard for me to work up any interest in the playoffs this year, and next year doesn't seem promising either. Its pretty bad when based on how the playoffs are setup and where the talent is, there is only two teams in the entire NBA really in the picture for a championship. One has a generational talent with LeBron that could convert a middle school team into an 8th seed, but man do I hate how the stockpiling of top players on GSW has made them such a favourite there wasn't much point in even playing the playoffs. Parity my rear end. You could have ran that playoffs 100 times and had GSW win 99 of them.

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012

We just out here tipping more than $13


Parity does not exist in basketball stop believing it ever did

exploded mummy
Sep 10, 2008

Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola

-Cheap Trick


Doctor Rope

Metapod posted:

Parity does not exist in basketball stop believing it ever did

Sire you did you had either the Lakers or the Celtics

Henchman of Santa
Aug 21, 2010


Metapod posted:

Parity does not exist in basketball stop believing it ever did

It did in the 70s when the Finals were on tape delay

patonthebach
Aug 22, 2016

Border Patrol


Metapod posted:

Parity does not exist in basketball stop believing it ever did

You gotta figure for the past 15 years or so there was a group of like 3-5 teams each playoffs that had a non-zero chance of winning it all. 2 (or even 1 like this year) teams having a chance sucks. NBA sucks when it comes to surprises now. I am not sure what can be done about it though. I'm not sure I want a league that will veto a signing like a top 5 player like KD joining a team that just had the best regular season of all time. Although it was a joke. And still is.

patonthebach fucked around with this message at Jul 18, 2017 around 14:04

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

It's always Mardi Gras season in my house!


Grimey Drawer

patonthebach posted:

You gotta figure for the past 15 years or so there was a group of like 3-5 teams each playoffs that had a non-zero chance of winning it all. 2 (or even 1 like this year) teams having a chance sucks. NBA sucks when it comes to surprises now. I am not sure what can be done about it though. I'm not sure I want a league that will veto a signing like a top 5 player like KD joining a team that just had the best regular season of all time. Although it was a joke. And still is.

No, it's usually just 2-3. Rarely ever does it get to 5. Ask Zogo!

Paul Zuvella
Dec 7, 2011


Has that one specific goon been nuked to death yet?

EvanTH
Apr 24, 2004

i like to express my inner pain by being really boring on the phone
or just when i'm kickin it
that's me though
i'm kind of oddddddd

Metapod posted:

Parity does not exist in basketball stop believing it ever did

It's weird because I think complaining about the Warriors sorta started this whole discussion off, but the NBA actually has some of the best parity rules of any of the 4 majors in the USA. The Warriors only exist because Curry resigned after a massive injury, Draymond takes a massive discount for god knows what reason, and Durant was promised Nike money to undermine Steph's stupid UA shoes. Whoops I accidentally wrote NBA instead of USA just now then corrected it. Every morning I wake up and put my right hand across my heart and takk de plejj.

But it's also the spot where individual superstars can have the most impact. Ain't no parity while LeBron is out there being Jordan But Better.

Mind_Taker
May 7, 2007

He's the best mindfuck yet


It's not just superstars having a bigger impact (though that is a huge component), it's also that basketball is a high scoring high event game. Flukiness isn't really a thing in basketball and when fluke plays happen it has a minor impact on the scoreboard because there are so many scoring events.

On the other hand in hockey a bullshit bounce can decide a series since it's so low-scoring.

EvanTH
Apr 24, 2004

i like to express my inner pain by being really boring on the phone
or just when i'm kickin it
that's me though
i'm kind of oddddddd

I don't even understand why hockey and soccer even have goalies, they only make the game worse. Just shrink the net, elevate it slightly and make it illegal for someone to squat in front while playing under a totally different ruleset than the rest of the dudes.

iospace
Apr 20, 2020




Grimey Drawer

EvanTH posted:

I don't even understand why hockey and soccer even have goalies, they only make the game worse. Just shrink the net, elevate it slightly and make it illegal for someone to squat in front while playing under a totally different ruleset than the rest of the dudes.

Look into pond hockey

exploded mummy
Sep 10, 2008

Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola

-Cheap Trick


Doctor Rope

iospace posted:

Look into pond hockey

Or water polo

VikingSkull
Jan 23, 2017



iospace posted:

Curious as to how you believe this to be why auto racing is dying.

In a nutshell it just drives costs up in a sideways manner as teams pay more for engineers and the like looking for any advantage they can get, and it also results in dumb things like sandbagging in practice and qualifying in order to avoid BoP penalties.

Plus if you look at NASCAR, the cars are so equal it's impossible to pass and makes the races boring as gently caress as people can only get to the leader but not by them, and in Indycar it causes pack racing which has an actual death toll behind it.

a new study bible!
Feb 1, 2009



BIG DICK NICK
A Philadelphia Legend
Fly Eagles Fly


Team size is directly linked to parity. That's why you have Tiger, Federer, Nadal, Serena, and Venus owning poo poo for entire decades. Basketball will not have parity until a team starts ten instead of five.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


The current era of the same like three or four people winning every tennis tournament for a solid decade has like no parallel in the entire history of tennis.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007




Hell Gem

Yeah, it's actually a confluence of team size X talent dropoff by player X number of games played X frequency of scoring. E.g., tennis has a handful of dominant players (as opposed to an alternate reality where many top players all had similar levels of talent), and then also individual player performance means everything in the game of tennis (as opposed to big team sports like football with over 50 rostered players at every game), and then there are a lot of matches (as opposed to everything being decided based on a handful of games per year) and then there are many many scoring opportunities per match (as opposed to soccer/hockey/etc where a single shot on goal often decides the entire game).

So one question then is: why do so few tennis players dominate? Why don't we have a lot more tennis players who are at or close to the talent levels of those top players? Ask the same question about your Curry/LeBron/etc. You can see the same thing in many other sports: Usain Bolt, Michael Phelps, Tiger Woods, off the top of my head. Where is the guy who is 99% as good as Usain Bolt, pressing him for wins at every race and occasionally beating him when Bolt has an off day? With nearly seven billion people on the planet, it's tough to believe that there is no human being anywhere with the desire and potential to be that guy, so there must be something in the process of locating and developing talent that creates that gap.

e. I figured the answer is obvious here but just to be explicit: I'm saying that if there is no parity in basketball, one idea is that there's something structurally wrong with the way the sport is arranged (and I'd agree with that); but another is that we're somehow doing an inadequate job of identifying and developing the nation's absolute best basketball players, such that there's not enough LeBron James-class players to go around a whole league.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at Jul 19, 2017 around 00:43

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


So few tennis players dominate because changes in courts mean it is now much easier to be good on both clay and hardcourt/grasscourt tournaments. Also because of steroids. Tennis right now is basically cycling in the early 2000s.

Jackie D
May 27, 2009

Democracy is like a tambourine - not everyone can be trusted with it.


I was under the impression tennis players used to burn out by 30 so the longevity is something totally new

Feels Villeneuve posted:

Also because of steroids.

Ah

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


This is a very good article about the different court types in tennis and how they've recently changed btw

http://grantland.com/features/court...age-men-tennis/

patonthebach
Aug 22, 2016

Border Patrol


EvanTH posted:

It's weird because I think complaining about the Warriors sorta started this whole discussion off, but the NBA actually has some of the best parity rules of any of the 4 majors in the USA. The Warriors only exist because Curry resigned after a massive injury, Draymond takes a massive discount for god knows what reason, and Durant was promised Nike money to undermine Steph's stupid UA shoes. Whoops I accidentally wrote NBA instead of USA just now then corrected it. Every morning I wake up and put my right hand across my heart and takk de plejj.

But it's also the spot where individual superstars can have the most impact. Ain't no parity while LeBron is out there being Jordan But Better.

Just because a league has a tight salary cap doesn't mean they have tons of parity. If you have 2 or 3 top 5 players on your basketball team. Especially a team that just had the best regular season ever. And you add another top 5 player. gently caress. Ridiculous. Has there ever been a similiar situation where in any major league after having a historical season they add a top 5% that will take up 20% of all plays/minutes? I'd would have to be like the entire WR and RB core for the NFC all star team signing with the Patriots after their 16-0 regular season. And even then I'm not sure if thats equivalent to Durant to GSW. Maybe something like both Ted Williams, Babe Ruth and Mike Trout joining up with that insane Mariners win team.

If anyone it can make it less fair in a way because superstar players want to play with other stars and will pick and choose their spots and their pay. Thats how you get the bottom 10 teams paying top 5 player money to random scrubs that arent even good starters.

patonthebach fucked around with this message at Jul 19, 2017 around 17:16

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

It's always Mardi Gras season in my house!


Grimey Drawer

The GSW situation was a once in a lifetime thing that required so drat much to happen in a specific way at specific times to make it possible. Any thing short of removing the idea of max contracts won't fix it. And even that may not fix it.

Under old CBA:
Curry had taken significantly less money due to worries about his ankles and then became MVP shortly thereafter. Draymond was a second round pick that turned into one of the greatest defenders in the league in additional to a great playmkaing and ok shooting big and also took less money than he could have on his next contract due to much of his accolades for that happening after that second contract. Klay Thompson became a top 3 3pt shooter and great perimeter defender and also took less money than he could have on his second contract.

Under new CBA:
Giant cap spike the likes of which the league hasn't seen before. A top 3 player is an unrestricted free agent (though his original team can offer more money/years than anyone else). Since all of GSW's key players are on contracts that were under their real value under the old CBA and salary cap, they now have a ridiculous amount of cap space. Just enough to fit in Durant.

If Curry wasn't injury prone before signing his second contract, if Draymond was a first round draft pick and had broken out in a big way before his second contract (2nd rounders get two years, 1st rounders get four, iirc), if Durant hadn't become an UFA the season of the giant cap leap, if any of these contracts had been done in a different year, etc., it wouldn't have happened.

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 12, 2007

Ain't nothin' to fuck with

EvanTH posted:

the premise is that i want my team to win but the other teams are too good, probably from cheating

Guillotine the Patriots, got it

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

by Smythe


Kibner posted:

The GSW situation was a once in a lifetime thing that required so drat much to happen in a specific way at specific times to make it possible. Any thing short of removing the idea of max contracts won't fix it. And even that may not fix it.

Under old CBA:
Curry had taken significantly less money due to worries about his ankles and then became MVP shortly thereafter. Draymond was a second round pick that turned into one of the greatest defenders in the league in additional to a great playmkaing and ok shooting big and also took less money than he could have on his next contract due to much of his accolades for that happening after that second contract. Klay Thompson became a top 3 3pt shooter and great perimeter defender and also took less money than he could have on his second contract.

Under new CBA:
Giant cap spike the likes of which the league hasn't seen before. A top 3 player is an unrestricted free agent (though his original team can offer more money/years than anyone else). Since all of GSW's key players are on contracts that were under their real value under the old CBA and salary cap, they now have a ridiculous amount of cap space. Just enough to fit in Durant.

If Curry wasn't injury prone before signing his second contract, if Draymond was a first round draft pick and had broken out in a big way before his second contract (2nd rounders get two years, 1st rounders get four, iirc), if Durant hadn't become an UFA the season of the giant cap leap, if any of these contracts had been done in a different year, etc., it wouldn't have happened.

And it's not like the title was given to GSW after Durant signed, even if it felt like it, because they sacrificed any depth for that top-end talent. When Durant got hurt in February and was out for just about the rest of the regular season, there were fears that he was done for the year which would have radically changed up the direction of the playoffs. Sure the Warriors probably steamroll their way to the WCF (and maybe steamroll to the Finals if they're willing to undercut Kawaii again) but the Cavs aren't a complete pushover.

Spring Break My Heart
Feb 15, 2012


C. Everett Koop posted:

And it's not like the title was given to GSW after Durant signed
It absolutely was

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007

If loving you is binturong, I don't want to binturight.


Yep. Cleveland already had a near impossible task to beat them before and they drat sure weren't going to beat them after it.

EvanTH
Apr 24, 2004

i like to express my inner pain by being really boring on the phone
or just when i'm kickin it
that's me though
i'm kind of oddddddd

C. Everett Koop posted:

And it's not like the title was given to GSW after Durant signed, even if it felt like it, because they sacrificed any depth for that top-end talent. When Durant got hurt in February and was out for just about the rest of the regular season, there were fears that he was done for the year which would have radically changed up the direction of the playoffs. Sure the Warriors probably steamroll their way to the WCF (and maybe steamroll to the Finals if they're willing to undercut Kawaii again) but the Cavs aren't a complete pushover.

Ehh, the concerns about sacrificing depth were mostly about how it might increase the likelihood of injuries for stars. Which is to say that a cascade of injuries was about the only thing people thought could derail them.

One of the reasons people hated that KD move so much was that it made the whole season seem like a forgone conclusion.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007

If loving you is binturong, I don't want to binturight.

The NBA season was a foregone conclusion even before KD went to Golden State though.

EvanTH
Apr 24, 2004

i like to express my inner pain by being really boring on the phone
or just when i'm kickin it
that's me though
i'm kind of oddddddd

Nah, just the regular season and the first few rounds of the playoffs.

Also the Spurs always have a chance.

Kirios
Jan 25, 2010

All rise for the AL

M. V. P.


The 2017 NBA Playoffs were tremendously boring to watch from start to finish.

They still drew ridiculous ratings. It will never change until people stop watching.

iospace
Apr 20, 2020




Grimey Drawer

Kirios posted:

The 2017 NBA Playoffs were tremendously boring to watch from start to finish.

They still drew ridiculous ratings. It will never change until people stop watching.

Funny enough, this thread was born out of a discussion in one of the journalism threads, go figure. That said, NASCAR is in the same boat. The product is suffering, but as long as money flows, who gives a poo poo about the quality of the product!

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007

If loving you is binturong, I don't want to binturight.

Kirios posted:

The 2017 NBA Playoffs were tremendously boring to watch from start to finish.

They still drew ridiculous ratings. It will never change until people stop watching.

The finals drew massive ratings. I'm pretty sure they were down across the board the rest of the way compared to previous years.

EDIT: I'm wrong and dumb! Apparently viewership was up on the whole.

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Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

It's always Mardi Gras season in my house!


Grimey Drawer

DJExile posted:

The finals drew massive ratings. I'm pretty sure they were down across the board the rest of the way compared to previous years.

EDIT: I'm wrong and dumb! Apparently viewership was up on the whole.

Per game ratings across the entire playoffs were up. The fewer total games played resulted in slightly down total ratings.

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