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Kylra posted:Also Shakespeare as a servant? It seems to be pretty normal to summon artists as Casters. There's a surprising amount of those in the wider Fate canon, such as Alexandre Dumas in strange fake and Hans Christian Andersen in EXTRA. YggdrasilTM posted:The strenght of a servant is determined by: I feel I need to point out that Heracles could be in every cast except Caster, and Berserker is likely the single worst class to summon him in. What we saw is Heracles at his weakest and he was still an insane powerhouse. Seeing him in his best class (Archer) should be amazing. gimme the GOD drat candy posted:it's an alternate history. the grail got jacked during ww2, so no fate zero, so no firestorm ruining shirou's life. Shirou becoming an orphan and then getting adopted by Kiritsugu seems to be something that will happen regardless of lacking its cause. It happens to both Shirou in kaleid liner, for instance, despite the 4th Holy Grail War never happening in that continuity. Anyways I doubt this Shirou is the Shirou we know, somehow adopted by Kirei or something, mostly because Fate voices are usually very consistent and Shirou Kotomine is voiced by Koki Uchiyama rather than Noboru Sugiyama. Then again, EMIYA's voiced by Junichi Suwabe, so who knows?
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Jul 13, 2017 03:34
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C-SPAN Caller posted:Never watched any FATES other than the one on Netflix that I couldn't really get much into, but I have seen the design of Mordred and think it looks cool. This series worth a watch? Seems good so far. Go for it.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:46
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Blaze Dragon posted:I feel I need to point out that Heracles could be in every cast except Caster, and Berserker is likely the single worst class to summon him in. What we saw is Heracles at his weakest and he was still an insane powerhouse. Seeing him in his best class (Archer) should be amazing. Heracles what-ifs are probably going to be one of those things that will remain theoretical because there's a lot of narrative value in keeping Heracles as this incredibly powerful servant who can really only be controlled through centuries of developing a humonculus with the mana capacity to sustain him and plopping him into the Berserker class to control him.
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Jul 13, 2017 04:13
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From what I understand, there's like at least 6 Gilgamesh-tier servants in this show and Mordred is actually one of the weakest in context of the war
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Jul 13, 2017 04:16
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Eej posted:Heracles what-ifs are probably going to be one of those things that will remain theoretical because there's a lot of narrative value in keeping Heracles as this incredibly powerful servant who can really only be controlled through centuries of developing a humonculus with the mana capacity to sustain him and plopping him into the Berserker class to control him. Grand Order should totally have non-Berserker Heracles to be honest, there's no reason not to have them but they just haven't yet. I will always hold out hope though.
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Jul 13, 2017 04:16
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Tae posted:From what I understand, there's like at least 6 Gilgamesh-tier servants in this show and Mordred is actually one of the weakest in context of the war I think you may be exaggerating as Gilgamesh stands on a tier above all other servants.
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Jul 13, 2017 04:35
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Eej posted:Heracles what-ifs are probably going to be one of those things that will remain theoretical because there's a lot of narrative value in keeping Heracles as this incredibly powerful servant who can really only be controlled through centuries of developing a humonculus with the mana capacity to sustain him and plopping him into the Berserker class to control him. Archer Heracles is in Strange Fake, at least
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Jul 13, 2017 05:07
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Erg posted:Was there supposed to be more to the thread title Maybe
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Jul 13, 2017 05:09
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Hunt11 posted:I think you may be exaggerating as Gilgamesh stands on a tier above all other servants. This really stopped being the case about 5 spin-offs ago. Tae posted:From what I understand, there's like at least 6 Gilgamesh-tier servants in this show and Mordred is actually one of the weakest in context of the war Kylra posted:Also Shakespeare as a servant? 
Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 05:10
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El Burbo posted:Archer Heracles is in Strange Fake, at least Technically he's an Archvenger but he's definitely insanely OP in it
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Jul 13, 2017 05:10
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The Strange Fake power levels are pretty much what you'd expect from something that was originally an April Fool's joke.
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Jul 13, 2017 05:15
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We have a million adaption of Shakespeare's works and keep making more to this day, he's the least surprising historical figure to become a Servant based on the sheer endurance of his words and the myths built up around him for better or for worse.
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Jul 13, 2017 05:35
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What are the good fansubs for this? I just saw one for episode 2 that was complete trash and had to stop at like 10 minutes
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Jul 13, 2017 05:39
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The REAL Goobusters posted:What are the good fansubs for this? I just saw one for episode 2 that was complete trash and had to stop at like 10 minutes UTW
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Jul 13, 2017 05:42
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Going from Shakespeare's final play the Tempest it can be viewed as him viewing himself as some sort of wizard (in regards to the final speech of the play) so it is no surprise that Shakespeare would be a caster. Rodyle posted:This really stopped being the case about 5 spin-offs ago. Maybe I went too far but at least saying that almost the majority of the servants in this show are at the same level as Gilgamesh is a bit much.
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Jul 13, 2017 06:07
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Mordred confirmed best Saber
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Jul 13, 2017 06:09
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re: Iskander vs Saber, one of the things that keeps me coming back to Fate in all its incarnations is that the characters espouse a bajillion different philosophies, and then rather than telling you who is right the narrative usually settles the conflict in a way where the question of who was right is left to the audience. When Iskander presents his arguments about the nature of a king at the Banquet, Saber's counterpoints seem kind of impotent... but then at the battle on the river she unleashes Excalibur the same way that Iskander unleashed the Hetairoi, using the symbol of her life and legend the same way Iskander did to deliver the rebuke and show the real merits of HER style of kingship. When he left the banquet he was in complete contempt of Saber and entirely assured that he is in the right, but after seeing her use her sword he's melancholic and suddenly eager to prove his point through combat because he feels simple rhetoric has failed him. Shirou's journey in Stay Night is the same. Both later routes take Shirou to a different conclusion on his life's philosophy, they're irreconcilable but they're correct in their own context. The bitter flamewars between people who favor Unlimited Blade Works vs those who favor Heaven's Feel are a testament to just how well crafted the philosophical question is and just how much the answers our protagonist comes to speak to the audience. Heck, even Kiritsugu's philosophy, which the entire final act in Zero is about shattering into a million pieces, leaves the question open to an extent because he follows it through despite the personal cost and the collateral damage, so we are left to judge his actions for ourselves. Whether you agree or disagree with any given character's philosophy isn't ultimately the point, its the process of you coming to that conclusion after witnessing the conflict that Fate seems to be intent on triggering, and to me that's what makes it special. We meet characters, we learn their beliefs, we see those belief's clash with each other in knock down drag out PHILSOPHY WARS, and then we get to sit down and think about it once the dust settles. I can only hope Apocrypha provides the same, and at least with what I've seen thus far of Mordred, Vlad and Team Chiron in these first two episodes, I'm hopeful Sanguinia fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 06:24
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Sanguinia posted:We meet characters, we learn their beliefs, we see those belief's clash with each other in knock down drag out PHILSOPHY WARS, and then we get to sit down and think about it once the dust settles. I suppose Extella has philosophy wars, of a sort.
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Jul 13, 2017 06:51
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Blaze Dragon posted:It seems to be pretty normal to summon artists as Casters. There's a surprising amount of those in the wider Fate canon, such as Alexandre Dumas in strange fake and Hans Christian Andersen in EXTRA. All the artists, writers, inventors and philosophers are summoned as Casters by default
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Jul 13, 2017 07:19
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YggdrasilTM posted:All the artists, writers, inventors and philosophers are summoned as Casters by default this is especially funny because some of them don't even know how to use magic.
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Jul 13, 2017 07:19
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Stallion Cabana posted:this is especially funny because some of them don't even know how to use magic. Many of them were secretly mages all along, or self-taught, or dabbled in magic without knowing it, etc.
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Jul 13, 2017 07:35
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YggdrasilTM posted:All the artists, writers, inventors and philosophers are summoned as Casters by default Not always. Tesla, for example, is summoned as an Archer.
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Jul 13, 2017 07:37
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Pureauthor posted:Not always. Tesla, for example, is summoned as an Archer. Multiple attitudes. Tesla can be inventor Tesla, and also lightning wielder, death ray user Tesla.
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Jul 13, 2017 07:57
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Pureauthor posted:Not always. Tesla, for example, is summoned as an Archer. I did a Fate RP one time where we had a Caster Tesla. His noble phantasm was the ability to make a machine that could more or less do anything he imagined by cobbling together a sciency-looking container and then filling in the insides with magic. We kept finding surveillance devices and communicators and weird weapons, but any time we busted one open looking for clues it was basically elaborate scrap metal with magic residue we couldn't analyze at all inside, which made deducing his identity a chore for quite a long time.
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Jul 13, 2017 08:19
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Preview Episode 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT7YJ-PXCQ8
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Jul 13, 2017 13:43
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Hunt11 posted:Maybe I went too far but at least saying that almost the majority of the servants in this show are at the same level as Gilgamesh is a bit much. I seriously doubt most of the Servants in this war are at Gilgamesh's level but there's at least one who is his equal if not superior in Karna, and Vlad Tepes is at his maximum power because this Holy War is happening in his lands It should be noted that these two are Lancers, so despite having this power, they will almost definitely die in horrible and unlucky ways because Lancers.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:37
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Karna is probably just about his level, but Vlad, even at his maximum power, is not. It really has to be remembered that Gil has also constantly gotten buffs throughout the duration of the franchise, so if you're just trying to compare his FSN/FZ appearances you're not going to get the full accounting. For one, it has been confirmed that Gilgamesh knows what exactly every single piece of his treasury does, and can call forth specific weaponry if he wants - he just doesn't bother 99% of the time. He also has all sorts of ludicrously overpowered equipment floating around it in it that he just doesn't feel the need to use - hell, even his golden armor is incredibly tough along with boosting his Magic Resistance up to around Arturia's level, and that's pretty basic. Like, he has perfect foresight items in it he's perfectly capable of using. Hell, his fancy flying throne thing in Zero (Vimana) is from Indian mythology, just in case one was forgetting he has access to effectively everything ever. The only thing that's ever held his back is his attitude - a deadly serious Gil basically wrecks nearly everyone.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:22
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Lord Koth posted:Karna is probably just about his level, but Vlad, even at his maximum power, is not. Yeah, it's a fair guess that if (insert hero here, including Karna) has it, Gilgamesh has the original, better version. He is the evil mirror of Shirou/Archer, after all.
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Jul 13, 2017 18:16
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Actually according to CCC Gil isn't sure if he actually has Karna's unique weaponry and armour because they're technically all divine implements and don't come from human achievements. Honestly at this point it just makes Gil's loss to Shirou in UBW even dumber because we know he now has stuff like dozens of magic staves that can shoot Ancient Uruk Laser Beams that UBW has no counter to.
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Jul 13, 2017 18:19
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Darth Walrus posted:Yeah, it's a fair guess that if (insert hero here, including Karna) has it, Gilgamesh has the original, better version. He is the evil mirror of Shirou/Archer, after all. There's no rule saying an imitation can't surpass the original. Pureauthor posted:Actually according to CCC Gil isn't sure if he actually has Karna's unique weaponry and armour because they're technically all divine implements and don't come from human achievements. gae bolg but twice
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Jul 13, 2017 18:19
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If too much pride was a fixable thing, most fighting shows would be solved instantly.
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Jul 13, 2017 18:23
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Pureauthor posted:Actually according to CCC Gil isn't sure if he actually has Karna's unique weaponry and armour because they're technically all divine implements and don't come from human achievements. If he wanted to he could have just gone all out with Ea and break UBW before killing Shirou. However, he did not see Shirou worthy of such efforts so even as he got more angry he still refused to go all out due to pride until the very end and by that point it was too late. Still he could have killed Shirou if the Grail hadn't started to freak out and consume him.
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Jul 13, 2017 18:25
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My favourite moment in the Ufotable UBW adaptation is Gil's instant of distaste and hesitation before grabbing Ea just before Shirou cuts his arm off. It's a nice character moment that summarises the entire fight.
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Jul 13, 2017 19:38
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Yeah, Shirou's ultimate defence was being so pathetic and undignified as a fighter that Gil pretty much chose death over giving him the honour of a proper fight.
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Jul 13, 2017 19:47
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Tae posted:If too much pride was a fixable thing, most fighting shows would be solved instantly. I mean more to the point we're talking about a giant pile of mostly mythical heroes, of course pride is a crippling weakness for a lot of them
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Jul 13, 2017 19:50
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escape mechanism posted:My favourite moment in the Ufotable UBW adaptation is Gil's instant of distaste and hesitation before grabbing Ea just before Shirou cuts his arm off. It's a nice character moment that summarises the entire fight. I loved that too, so I had to gif it the moment I saw it. A very neat touch of Gil not wanting to get his favorite toy dirty. 
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Jul 13, 2017 20:32
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Stairmaster posted:There's no rule saying an imitation can't surpass the original. I thought this was specifically how Gil's weapons worked; any Noble Phantasm he has was 1 rank lower then the person who actually had it because it didn't have it's own legend; for instance he wasn't using Caladbolg, he was using 'The Sword that would become Caladbolg', which was one rank weaker then actual Caladbolg. He just made up for it because, like it was said, he has every 'The X that would become Y'.
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Jul 13, 2017 20:54
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So can Gil use all the special abilities of the various noble phantasms he has? It seems like some would inherently require proficiency with the weapon, and I thought that Gil's deal is that he can't actually fight with the weapons and just launches them out. So if some sword sets whatever it stabs on fire he could make use of that, but I'm not sure if he could do something like summon Gae Bolg and use its causality-breaking stab thing. edit: Also I'm not sure if I agree with the guy who said Arturia's "style of kinging" was vindicated during Zero. Like her whole argument is really dumb (obviously trying to take all of a country's responsibilities onto a single person is really stupid) and I'm not sure how her being able to shoot a fuckoff laser beam with Excalibur really changes that. edit2: I mean the whole deal with Iskander's noble phantasm is that it was made possible due to how much his subordinates liked him. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 20:57
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Ytlaya posted:So can Gil use all the special abilities of the various noble phantasms he has? It seems like some would inherently require proficiency with the weapon, and I thought that Gil's deal is that he can't actually fight with the weapons and just launches them out. So if some sword sets whatever it stabs on fire he could make use of that, but I'm not sure if he could do something like summon Gae Bolg and use its causality-breaking stab thing. He can't. Noble Phantasm rules are clear, they're triggered by calling their names. None of Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon NPs have names, as they will only be named in the future. Thus, they're very strong weapons, but they hold no special abilities, not yet. So he doesn't have Gae Bolg, he has a spear that will become Gae Bolg, thus it has no special properties beyond being a very good spear. Stallion Cabana posted:I thought this was specifically how Gil's weapons worked; any Noble Phantasm he has was 1 rank lower then the person who actually had it because it didn't have it's own legend; for instance he wasn't using Caladbolg, he was using 'The Sword that would become Caladbolg', which was one rank weaker then actual Caladbolg. He just made up for it because, like it was said, he has every 'The X that would become Y'. You're confusing Gate of Babylon with Shirou/Archer's Tracing. The forgeries Archer creates are of one rank lower than the original NP, which he makes up for by turning them into Broken Phantasms. As far as I know, Gilgamesh's "Prototype Noble Phantasms" are of the same Rank as the versions that obtained names and legends, they just lack any special properties and abilities, being merely very strong weapons. Blaze Dragon fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 20:59
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Blaze Dragon posted:He can't. Noble Phantasm rules are clear, they're triggered by calling their names. None of Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon NPs have names, as they will only be named in the future. Thus, they're very strong weapons, but they hold no special abilities, not yet. So he doesn't have Gae Bolg, he has a spear that will become Gae Bolg, thus it has no special properties beyond being a very good spear. So what does Gil do if Cu Chulainn uses his "thrown Gae Bolg that will always hit its target and also makes a gently caress-off explosion"? I guess he probably has some sort of shield that can block it or something. edit: I guess he could counter it with Ea like he did Excalibur, but that relies upon him seeing you preparing the attack. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 21:07
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