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How would you rate The Promised Neverland?
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Schubalts
Nov 26, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.

amigolupus posted:

Same. I was worried it'd be some weird-rear end redemption at first , but nope, Ratri was a sociopath even back then.

Less a sociopath and more the ends justify the means combined with his child mind coming up with any desperate justification it could for the horrific poo poo his family was involved with ("Julius sacrificing his closest friends wasn't the selfish act of a scared rear end in a top hat, it was the selfless act of a hero who was willing to give up everything for peace!"). He's still doing that self-justification, even.

He absolutely became a complete sack of poo poo as he grew up, though, and went above and beyond in his "noble duty" in all of this.

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Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012

Schubalts posted:

Less a sociopath and more the ends justify the means combined with his child mind coming up with any desperate justification it could for the horrific poo poo his family was involved with ("Julius sacrificing his closest friends wasn't the selfish act of a scared rear end in a top hat, it was the selfless act of a hero who was willing to give up everything for peace!"). He's still doing that self-justification, even.

He absolutely became a complete sack of poo poo as he grew up, though, and went above and beyond in his "noble duty" in all of this.

I don't think it was a child mind trying to justify it so much as a kid who didn't know better unlike his older brother who was mature enough to understand what really was being conveyed by their ancestor.

Buzzsaw Roomba
Feb 14, 2012

Christ, what an asshole.
Chapter 174

Hypocrisy
Oct 4, 2006
Lord of Sarcasm

Obviously the masses are like hell no we wanna keep eating people.

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!
Pretty caught off guard by the Demon god never expecting this system to last this long and mercy killing Ratri.

Equeen
Oct 29, 2011

Pole dance~
New chapter: https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1006536

A lot of tear-jerkers in this one :unsmith:

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Hey

heyyyy


things are getting too happy
Bad things happen when things get too happy

Mraagvpeine
Nov 4, 2014

I won this avatar on a technicality this thick.

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Hey

heyyyy


things are getting too happy
Bad things happen when things get too happy

Well we still don't know what price Emma has to pay for her Promise.

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

~Groovy~


:unsmith: Mujika is queen! The farms are gone! Phil is safe!!! Demons and humans can both live happily from now on! This is a super optimistic ending for a series that started so dark, and yet it all fits so well.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012

Mraagvpeine posted:

Well we still don't know what price Emma has to pay for her Promise.

My pet theory is that Emma herself will turn into a demon and have to remain in the Demon World. She'll be sad to be separated from her family, but she'll take comfort in being able to remain with her friend Mujika.

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Hey

heyyyy


things are getting too happy
Bad things happen when things get too happy

For a second there I'd forgotten that Andrew (the military guy that worked for Peter) was dead and assumed he would snipe Phil. Looks like we're in the clear.

amigolupus
Aug 25, 2017

I loved the part where the demons overthrew the yoke of capitalism. Everyone already felt like the nobles were screwing them over, so they were pretty quick to see Leuvis' point of view.

amigolupus
Aug 25, 2017

New chapter's out

Isabella dying here feels like a bullshit way to turn what's supposed to be a happy ending into a bittersweet one. Everyone's finally free, and this should really just be a victory lap.

One thing I'm morbidly curious about, but not really interested in finding out the answer, is what's going to happen to those farms where kids are essentially brain-dead. I'm really not sure what anyone can do about that situation.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

amigolupus posted:

New chapter's out

Isabella dying here feels like a bullshit way to turn what's supposed to be a happy ending into a bittersweet one. Everyone's finally free, and this should really just be a victory lap.

One thing I'm morbidly curious about, but not really interested in finding out the answer, is what's going to happen to those farms where kids are essentially brain-dead. I'm really not sure what anyone can do about that situation.

Probably just mercy killed. Unhooked, and let to pass naturally, like what Normal did. But this time, presumably they will get let to die "comfortably" and a proper burial

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!
Boooo, BOOOOOOOO I wanted my hyper saccharine ending thank you. Maybe at least since not ALL the children can go to the human world Emma can negate whatever raw deal she got and they can all live in the utopia they just helped make.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
this ending is getting unbearable

the conditions of emma's new promise are the only major plot thread left dangling and they're just throwing roadblock after roadblock to keep us from finding out what it is

yes mama's dead, tragic, sad, spill the beans already

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012

Oxxidation posted:

this ending is getting unbearable
Post/User combination speaks the truth.

Mulderman
Mar 20, 2009

Did someone say axe magnet?
This series has gotten so bad sadly.

It's just an endless barrage of small things that really rub me the wrong way. For example:

Emma throws down her gun and rushes to hug Phil (But look at her expression! That is NOT the face of someone wanting to hug her good friend!)
I get not wanting to hug a small child while carrying a loaded gun.
BUT THEN RAY DOES THE EXACT THING WHILE CARRYING IT! IN A GROUP HUG!
But all of the sudden a demon shows up!
And OH NO! EMMA LOST HER GUN!
But then Ray is still carrying his gun.
But it's pointless anyway. so Mom takes the stab!

Why even point this poo poo out? Why even make a point of Emma losing her gun? If it wouldn't have mattered in the first place?

It's just another small thing, but there are so many of them lately.

Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying
This might be the most hilariously contrived and unnecessary "redeemed through death" I've ever seen.

Fabricated
Apr 9, 2007

Living the Dream
I kinda feel like this series isn't really sticking the landing.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012

Fabricated posted:

I kinda feel like this series isn't really sticking the landing.

The actual resolution of the main plot stuck the landing well enough. It's just that the epilogue is being clumsily drawn out. I suspect the author is stalling for time trying to figure out what the Human World is actually like and how everyone will react to the terms of Emma's deal with the Unpronounceable Demon God.

What we're told about the Human World doesn't make much sense, come to think of it. There's a bunch of indications that the history of the Human World is basically our world's history (the Roman Empire is specifically mentioned, for instance), and Grace Field House is stocked with a bunch of books describing an outside world along the lines of our world circa 2000, but there were demons running around the Human World as late as 1000 years ago. Are we supposed to assume that the promise between the Ratri Clan and the UDG somehow changed everyone's memories, archaeological evidence, etc. so that there was no evidence of the demons ever existing? Or are the books and so forth actually imported from a different parallel universe?

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

I'll be shocked if we actually see the human world and the final shot is not the kids walking through the door(s) into the light pouring out from the human world

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011

I'll agree with saying that the actual climax "this is how the old order falls and something better might emerge" part of the story was very good - I'd even say some of the story's stronger material. The epilogue has felt kind of meandery and disjointed, though.

Not Keyser Soze
Mar 7, 2007

Endless Celestial Sex
What happened to writers to make them almost universally think eucatastrophe is such a bad thing?

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Not Keyser Soze posted:

What happened to writers to make them almost universally think eucatastrophe is such a bad thing?
I think a lot of it is a reaction formation against storybook endings. The thing is, it's fair to say the story doesn't necessarily have a good ending, but even in reality sometimes things go well.

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011

A silly little mouse!
I know it's an unpopular opinion in this thread, but I thought the story's been on a fast decline ever since they found Norman. Making the Demons just weird mutants with "Parallel Gene Transfer" really ruined all the terror and suspense. Like remember how Lewis was loving terrifying as this unknowable thing that hunts children on safari like he's one of the Fey. Now they're just mooks. And I really don't like the whole pacifism thing out of complete nowhere. They've all been repeatedly traumatized by these guys and all of a sudden Emma is a pacifist where theres this hard shift in tone where no, the child eating dudes just have a few bad apples and are all loving families. And then the story makes repeated Deus ex Machina's so no one has to actually consider any hard choices and brings all the popular characters back from the dead. It's just painfully generic and uninspired.

Evrart Claire
Jan 11, 2008
Introducing the Lambda kids as these people strong enough to just beat down demons easily is where I lost a lot of interest.

amigolupus
Aug 25, 2017

The recent chapters feel like the ending to Lord of the Rings. There are several perfectly good stopping points, but the story just keeps going on and on.

galagazombie posted:

I know it's an unpopular opinion in this thread, but I thought the story's been on a fast decline ever since they found Norman. Making the Demons just weird mutants with "Parallel Gene Transfer" really ruined all the terror and suspense. Like remember how Lewis was loving terrifying as this unknowable thing that hunts children on safari like he's one of the Fey. Now they're just mooks. And I really don't like the whole pacifism thing out of complete nowhere. They've all been repeatedly traumatized by these guys and all of a sudden Emma is a pacifist where theres this hard shift in tone where no, the child eating dudes just have a few bad apples and are all loving families. And then the story makes repeated Deus ex Machina's so no one has to actually consider any hard choices and brings all the popular characters back from the dead. It's just painfully generic and uninspired.

To be fair, while the set-up and world of TPN is pretty gruesome, the tone of the story has always been hopeful. If it had been needlessly grim and the characters were killed one by one, then it wouldn't really be a good fit for Shonen Jump. The goal of the kids has always been to get as happy an ending as possible.

I don't agree that Emma's growth into a pacifist came out of nowhere, though. She was the one who kept pushing for everyone to live right from the start. She met Mujika and Sonju and found out that there are demons who don't need to eat humans. She met Yugo, Lucas and the Goldy Pond kids and realized just how hard it is to survive out in the world. She also disguised herself and infiltrated demon villages and saw how the demons have families and are struggling to survive themselves. Emma's always been very empathetic so it makes sense that she experienced all of these and became a pacifist as a result.

superloosegoose
Dec 26, 2008
I hope that monster that ate the guy that had his face blown off and was eaten by the feral demon goes and eats this ugh of an epilogue or whatever disappointing thing this is

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
emma's always been pacifistic but ever since the comic's hit endgame it feels like the story's bending itself over backwards to hand her easy victories, whereas before she was constantly being forced to compromise between her do-no-harm principles and the brutal realities of survival. and she still came out on top most of the time! now she's just friendship-speeching everyone into submission

and now we get mama-kebab, which is a snap back to the story's older tone that comes off as way too abrupt

Mulderman
Mar 20, 2009

Did someone say axe magnet?
I lost interest when Emma's way of outsmarting the demons became. "LET'S SHOOT GUNS!"

Also Norman is still a monster who needs to own up to committing (partially successful) genocide.

Mulderman fucked around with this message at 15:44 on May 12, 2020

Fabricated
Apr 9, 2007

Living the Dream

Silver2195 posted:

The actual resolution of the main plot stuck the landing well enough. It's just that the epilogue is being clumsily drawn out. I suspect the author is stalling for time trying to figure out what the Human World is actually like and how everyone will react to the terms of Emma's deal with the Unpronounceable Demon God.

What we're told about the Human World doesn't make much sense, come to think of it. There's a bunch of indications that the history of the Human World is basically our world's history (the Roman Empire is specifically mentioned, for instance), and Grace Field House is stocked with a bunch of books describing an outside world along the lines of our world circa 2000, but there were demons running around the Human World as late as 1000 years ago. Are we supposed to assume that the promise between the Ratri Clan and the UDG somehow changed everyone's memories, archaeological evidence, etc. so that there was no evidence of the demons ever existing? Or are the books and so forth actually imported from a different parallel universe?
There's a lot of stuff that makes me feel like the story got scaled down at some point due to editors or author concerns.

We skip literally all of Emma and Co. finding whatever the stuff for the Promise is, then smash right into the finale. Ray becomes a near non-entity in the story, Norman becomes fairly evil by the kids own standards and has a cadre of (reasonably, considering their circumstances) fanatical demon killers and they all just... get talked out of his big plan in seconds, the ticking clock generic anime blood-coughing disease just gets cured, the demons get cured, we get a tiny bit of demon lore and then a mediocre shonen battle with the queen because Posuka's strong suite isn't action paneling, etc. It all feels a lot less smart than the first few arcs. Even the art feels like it has suffered a fair amount, which makes sense because Posuka was a digital artist whose style was these painstakingly detailed shots that simulate 3d depth through perspective and rough lines and not cracking out 16-20 pages a week under a tight schedule.

There's still room for some brutal/bittersweet/maudlin ending where we find out whatever Emma gave up for her promise- but that could easily also be some real saccharine thing where the Demon God becomes a human or something to hang out with Emma to see how cool the world is or whatever.

Fabricated fucked around with this message at 16:11 on May 12, 2020

galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011

A silly little mouse!

Fabricated posted:

There's a lot of stuff that makes me feel like the story got scaled down at some point due to editors or author concerns.

I get the feeling there wasn't really any plot planned out past the escape from the farm. Even all the good arcs after it are still "about" escape and basically spun the stories wheels. "Dealing with Hunters chasing them thru the forest" "Hooking up with other Escapees at the Safari Zone" and "Dealing with Kill Teams of Human Collaborators". Then I assume the author realizes they can't really stall anymore so we get this rapid fire ending.

Fabricated
Apr 9, 2007

Living the Dream

galagazombie posted:

I get the feeling there wasn't really any plot planned out past the escape from the farm. Even all the good arcs after it are still "about" escape and basically spun the stories wheels. "Dealing with Hunters chasing them thru the forest" "Hooking up with other Escapees at the Safari Zone" and "Dealing with Kill Teams of Human Collaborators". Then I assume the author realizes they can't really stall anymore so we get this rapid fire ending.
The shelter and Goldy Pond seemed pretty well planned and made sense. I really liked the idea of some demon noble rear end in a top hat having a private ranch where he illegally poaches humans for sport, the shelter makes sense if there's this big underground railroad for the kids to escape the farms, etc.

I think they had a story planned for most of it, but I feel like somewhere along the line they decided against whatever that plan was and I think it was right after Goldy Pond. They just declared "Minerva" dead with that one message and didn't really explore that anymore outside of explaining the original promise and why the other Ratri was an rear end in a top hat. I'm waiting to see if the path to the human world is that elevator in Goldy Pond, because if it isn't- that's another thing that just kinda went poof.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Didn't they destroy that elevator alongside everything else in Goldy Pond

Fabricated
Apr 9, 2007

Living the Dream

rannum posted:

Didn't they destroy that elevator alongside everything else in Goldy Pond
I think they did actually, so we have no idea how it connected to the human world.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Fabricated posted:

I think they did actually, so we have no idea how it connected to the human world.

I assumed it was just a magical elevator between 2 points. Things would probably get a little trippy on the transition seam

Fellis
Feb 14, 2012

Kid, don't threaten me. There are worse things than death, and uh, I can do all of them.
I was hoping for an overly saccharine ending which would be bittersweetly undercut by Emma having to stay behind in demon world for her promise, which isn’t awful because demon world is on the up, but still sad.

It’s definitely dragging, and this last chapter was dumb. I don’t think it brings down the whole work, lots of manga have bad endings, just :geno:

Mikl
Nov 8, 2009

Vote shit sandwich or the shit sandwich gets it!
New chapter


Twenty-two pages of BE SAD NOW.

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Mulderman
Mar 20, 2009

Did someone say axe magnet?
*loud fart noise*

That's how I feel about this chapter honestly. They should have replaced the Ratri stuff with this. It would have made sense there instead of just doing it again only with a slightly more sympathetic character.

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