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Nephzinho
Jan 24, 2008



Not a Children posted:

Tell me how to enjoy Ogre Battle 64

I can't get over losing units and I'm terrible at spatial awareness. Love tactics Ogre, but Ogre Battle just never clicked with me.

Play it on an emulator where you can speed it up. Fight the urge to have a super unit that soaks up XP from less able units.

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Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001





LPG Giant posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FWVKu1gnWs

I think Mark Brown explains pretty well why the music in BOTW is great and works well for an open-world game. Agree that the battle music is a bit meh though.

Too bad im not mark brown. slate should have had an mp3 player built in imo for playing music during the many rote shrines

Tales of Woe
Dec 17, 2004



Mario 64 has aged really poorly visually like almost all n64 games but it still is like top 10 all time for fun movement. speedrunning is a big part of what's kept it relevant

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010



Tales of Woe posted:

Mario 64 has aged really poorly visually like almost all n64 games but it still is like top 10 all time for fun movement. speedrunning is a big part of what's kept it relevant

Sonic 2006 of all things is a good speedrunning game


(I still agree with you)

Raserys
Aug 22, 2011

IT'S YA BOY

you: botw has no good music
me: https://youtu.be/hwyhYmGzKLU

Tender Bender
Sep 17, 2004



BotW's town music is great, as people have said, and in the wilderness the "high mountaintop" music is great as well (the one that played at the start of the E3 2016 trailer). The standard wilderness tinkles are good but I admit I'm kind of tired of them by now. But I've also put 150+ hours into the game.

I'm up to New Donk City in Odyssey and I have to say the music is just alright so far, there are a few standout tracks but the rest I'd say is fine but not particularly memorable.

DLC Inc
Jun 1, 2011

Tyger Tyger, burning bright,
In the Direct of the night;
What immortal hand or eye,
Could frame the joy of Sakurai?

Not a Children posted:

Tell me how to enjoy Ogre Battle 64

I can't get over losing units and I'm terrible at spatial awareness. Love tactics Ogre, but Ogre Battle just never clicked with me.

Always retreat if you're going to lose units and/or have tomes of resurrection. I don't remember losing many units since I flanked lots of enemies and retreated when I had to...also helped that I had a healer on like 4/5 of my armies. It's easier to clump together armies with a buddy systems i.e. 2 at a time per route while leaving a dragon or something at the base to defend it.

Man if losing characters is a thing for you, wait til you play Darkest Dungeon on Switch.

Stan Taylor
Oct 13, 2013

Touched Fuzzy, Got Dizzy

DLC Inc posted:

Always retreat if you're going to lose units and/or have tomes of resurrection. I don't remember losing many units since I flanked lots of enemies and retreated when I had to...also helped that I had a healer on like 4/5 of my armies. It's easier to clump together armies with a buddy systems i.e. 2 at a time per route while leaving a dragon or something at the base to defend it.

Man if losing characters is a thing for you, wait til you play Darkest Dungeon on Switch.

Aw man im excited to finally check out darkest dungeon. I really hope Spelunky 2 comes out on this thing too. And give me XCOM 2 while you're at it. something about games being on the switch is much more appealing than playing them on my pc.

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Tender Bender posted:

I'm up to New Donk City in Odyssey and I have to say the music is just alright so far, there are a few standout tracks but the rest I'd say is fine but not particularly memorable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKBjbjZfTiM

Tales of Woe
Dec 17, 2004



I think Odyssey has a good soundtrack but only steam gardens, new donk, the water levels, and the two vocal songs are really memorable. I can't play the sand kingdom or luncheon kingdom music in my head right now despite spending hours in them.

Edit: add Bowser's castle to that list too, that one is good.

Tales of Woe fucked around with this message at Nov 1, 2017 around 15:27

PantsBandit
Oct 26, 2007

it is both a monkey and a boombox


Tales of Woe posted:

Mario 64 has aged really poorly visually like almost all n64 games but it still is like top 10 all time for fun movement. speedrunning is a big part of what's kept it relevant

I think this is where a large part of the divide comes in. I know a lot of people can't stand the graphics of early 3D games but I actually find them charming.

Mario 64 also had a lot of visual diversity and good level design, which helps with the look of it. Despite having flat textures, levels like Boo's Mansion or Cool, Cool Mountain still look really good to me because of how well all their pieces fit together.

Tijuana Bibliophile
Dec 30, 2008



Scratchmo

enojy
Sep 11, 2001

bass rattle
stars out
the sky


Macaluso posted:

I'll not tolerate any more crass words against our brave explorer boy

Tijuana Bibliophile
Dec 30, 2008



Scratchmo

Finding Captain Toad in weird places makes me smile

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...


Tender Bender posted:

I'm up to New Donk City in Odyssey and I have to say the music is just alright so far, there are a few standout tracks but the rest I'd say is fine but not particularly memorable.
This is the one aspect of the game where I'm willing to argue that the Galaxies were absolutely superior, but at the same time, I'll give credit to the Mario team for not digging into the orchestral & nostalgia well again and adding more casual & original tunes. I am definitely looking forward to remixes in future Mario games for years to come.

PantsBandit
Oct 26, 2007

it is both a monkey and a boombox



Yes, that penguin is very cute. I'm glad you agree that Mario 64 is amazing

hosed up that dude is wandering around without his hat.

PantsBandit fucked around with this message at Nov 1, 2017 around 15:44

Thom P. Tiers
May 29, 2008


Mario 64 was developed 20+ years ago. The graphics have aged as they should. It's a game from 20+ years ago.

(Also, the game owns)

Frankston
Jul 27, 2010




This song gets stuck in my head for hours whenever I hear it and I'm totally fine with that

Ventana
Mar 28, 2010


Your Computer posted:

Not at all, my entire point is that those specific games are doing their thing perfectly and changing it in those games would be for the worse. I didn't mean overworld themes in general, or anything else about the music in those or other games, just the sound design vv

I get where you'd mix up my point (and I probably should've reworded it more specifically), but I still stand by those points even for these specific games. At least, for Botw, I don't think there's any reason they couldn't have gone for less spacious melodies. Dramatic and somber tones with more clear melodies have been done for a long time, even in big adventure-y games.

For Dark Souls, I think it's a harder argument given that imo it's even more stylized in other ways to convey emptiness that it's hard to argue it not fitting. I think you could, but I don't think it would help all that much (where as, I do think something could be gained in changing Botw's ambiance).


Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

I'm sure they could've managed to cram in more melodic stuff and everyone would have been happy, but I really respect the vision they had with the scoring. It's not like there's no music there -- there are lots of non-repeating and ambient stuff in the background that you don't remember

Gonna be the hipster here and on this but watch the 8-bit Music Theory video about the actual melodies going on in the ambient tunes in Botw. It is moving and doing things that would connect it to other Zelda overworld themes/adventure titles but in a new way. It's explaining the mechanisms of why you get the general feelings you do from it (which is what the Mark Brown video mostly talks about), and it's super super cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl-6K3zrcr0

He has several videos on Botw/zelda music and they are all great btw, people should check this guy more

Slimy Hog
Apr 22, 2008



Thom P. Tiers posted:

Mario 64 was developed 20+ years ago. The graphics have aged as they should. It's a game from 20+ years ago.

(Also, the game owns)

This is what I don't get about people saying it hasn't aged well. If Mario 64 hasn't aged well, then no other Mario game has either.

well why not
Feb 9, 2009



Mario 64 holds up better than most games of similar age. It's still super fun and accessible. Stuff like Star Fox 64 or Goldeneye are borderline unplayable compared to modern games.

It's not timeless like high quality spritework (SMW3) but it's not terrible.

enojy
Sep 11, 2001

bass rattle
stars out
the sky


Please tell me some form of Gusty Garden Galaxy is somewhere in Odyssey

Actually don't because I already have a feeling where it may be and that the answer would be heavy spoiler territory

Kaubocks
Apr 13, 2011

she is beauty
she is grace
she'll go so fast
she'll melt your face


Tender Bender posted:

I'm up to New Donk City in Odyssey and I have to say the music is just alright so far, there are a few standout tracks but the rest I'd say is fine but not particularly memorable.

mario metal/big band is my new favorite genre of music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2__mBmXR-kc

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

What is the Matrix? We just don't know.



Buglord

Macaluso posted:

I mean I still enjoy it cause I have nostalgia for it but Mario 64 hasn't aged well


Eh I'd rather have the best of just the platforming challenges. Champion's Road for instance is one of the best platforming things I've ever played in a video game. That's why I'm always hoping for another Donkey Kong Country Returns cause both of those games were stellar platformers

It has aged extremely well

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002

Don't fuckle with Shuckle(s)

Like that other Shuckle, but different.



This song is so good.

Fortuitous Bumble
Jan 5, 2007



well why not posted:

Mario 64 holds up better than most games of similar age. It's still super fun and accessible. Stuff like Star Fox 64 or Goldeneye are borderline unplayable compared to modern games.



What's wrong with Star Fox 64? I did a quick playthrough recently and the controls and level design still feel really good to me. The original SNES Star Fox, on the other hand, is pretty hard to look at with the single digit framerates.

Tijuana Bibliophile
Dec 30, 2008



Scratchmo

Improbable Lobster posted:

It has aged extremely well

Yeah there's not a lot of other early 3d games that are remotely playable

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

speaking of music has anyone done this dumbass joke yet
https://my.mixtape.moe/cdurtz.mp4

Ventana posted:

I get where you'd mix up my point (and I probably should've reworded it more specifically), but I still stand by those points even for these specific games. At least, for Botw, I don't think there's any reason they couldn't have gone for less spacious melodies. Dramatic and somber tones with more clear melodies have been done for a long time, even in big adventure-y games.
I think we're speaking past each other. My point was that I'm not talking about the songs or melodies at all, merely the usage of music in the game (hence why I specified sound design). My point isn't that the music is good (or bad) but that the way the music is used in game is excellent and it would be a detriment to the game(s) if there was blaring overworld music instead.

well why not
Feb 9, 2009



Fortuitous Bumble posted:

What's wrong with Star Fox 64? I did a quick playthrough recently and the controls and level design still feel really good to me. The original SNES Star Fox, on the other hand, is pretty hard to look at with the single digit framerates.

It's really slow-feeling, the animal voices aren't great, all-range mode is a chore and it's pretty confusing how to actually visit some of the planets visible on-screen.

Not the worst aged game, but it's a pretty tough replay IMO.

Fortuitous Bumble
Jan 5, 2007



Also, I started playing Zelda a week ago and the beginning of Zora's Domain is really strange. I was really impressed with the game up until this point, but when I started approaching the Zora tower, it's like they suddenly gave into all their worse game design impulses and decided it was best to railroad players to the boss fight while some Zora guy follows along to pull you into random cutscenes

enojy
Sep 11, 2001

bass rattle
stars out
the sky


Did anyone else get a little tilted when they realized a good number of NPC voices in Odyssey sound exactly like Animal Crossing mumbling and there's still not even a hint of an Animal Crossing game on Switch?

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010



Fortuitous Bumble posted:

Also, I started playing Zelda a week ago and the beginning of Zora's Domain is really strange. I was really impressed with the game up until this point, but when I started approaching the Zora tower, it's like they suddenly gave into all their worse game design impulses and decided it was best to railroad players to the boss fight while some Zora guy follows along to pull you into random cutscenes

Go somewhere else then if you aren't enjoying the area

AlBorlantern Corps
Mar 4, 2017

In brightest day,
In darkest dim,
No tool man shall I broker him,
Let those who shout 'More Power' grim
Heed my call, I don't think so Tim


You don't have to go to Zora's domain by that route. But if you do it's a cool change of pace and a neat structured challenge since climbing has become nonviable. But if you don't like it you can just approach from the North. There's even a special cutscene of the guy being like "Whoa how did you get here?"

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Fortuitous Bumble posted:

Also, I started playing Zelda a week ago and the beginning of Zora's Domain is really strange. I was really impressed with the game up until this point, but when I started approaching the Zora tower, it's like they suddenly gave into all their worse game design impulses and decided it was best to railroad players to the boss fight while some Zora guy follows along to pull you into random cutscenes

Even then you can still bypass the entire thing with some clever rock climbing There are no invisible walls or necessary triggers, heck, I didn't even know about the cutscenes until I saw someone else play through that section of the game!

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010



Grimey Drawer

And personally I like everything about Zora's domain's setup. They made the Zora and the Gerudo feel a lot more like real functioning civilizations than the Gorons and in particular the Rito. I wish they'd done more stuff like that to flesh out the stories and areas of each of them.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007

I'm high speed, low drag; Oscar Mike to be OP in the AO, in the deepest, most tactical Black Ops Multiplayer to date.


enojy posted:

Did anyone else get a little tilted when they realized a good number of NPC voices in Odyssey sound exactly like Animal Crossing mumbling and there's still not even a hint of an Animal Crossing game on Switch?

I thought it was more like Egad in Luigi's Mansion.

MZ
Apr 21, 2004

Excuse me while I kiss the sky.

well why not posted:

Mario 64 holds up better than most games of similar age. It's still super fun and accessible. Stuff like Star Fox 64 or Goldeneye are borderline unplayable compared to modern games.

It's not timeless like high quality spritework (SMW3) but it's not terrible.

It's that Mario magic, Super Mario Bros. 1/2/3 hold up better than 99% of games from the NES era, a lot of them are trash to play today.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007

I'm high speed, low drag; Oscar Mike to be OP in the AO, in the deepest, most tactical Black Ops Multiplayer to date.


MZ posted:

It's that Mario magic, Super Mario Bros. 1/2/3 hold up better than 99% of games from the NES era, a lot of them are trash to play today.

Jumping in Castlevania 1-3 is so loving bad in comparison that it's night and day.

PantsBandit
Oct 26, 2007

it is both a monkey and a boombox


I thought the approach to Zora's Domain was great. One of the things that's really cool about BotW is how groups of enemies set up in defensive positions around points of interest in places that would, theoretically, force people to go through them to get where they want to go. Of course, Link can climb almost anything so most of the time you can just bypass these challenges.

With Zora's Domain though, you have to actually battle your way to your destination. It shakes things up by removing (or at least seeming to remove) your ability to shortcut your way past the difficulty. Plus you get some great views along the way.

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enojy
Sep 11, 2001

bass rattle
stars out
the sky


Mister Facetious posted:

I thought it was more like Egad in Luigi's Mansion.

Yea, some of them are more unique like that, but the guy who runs the roulette games for example sounds right out of Animal Crossing.

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