Search Amazon.com:
Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
  • Post
  • Reply
Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009


massive spider posted:

I find nu metal interesting because hip hop mixed with metal doesn't sound like fundamentally a horrible experiment in theory and yet it became known as one.

100% because of Fred Durst, which is funny considering the context of what limp bizkit was. I think Henry Rollins described them best.

https://youtu.be/6jxvxjwh7FI

Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park are a ridiculous comparison for a lot of reasons, but I think Rollins brings up the key one. Linkin Park was always an album band. They were less about rapping over rock, which has kind of undeservedly become the calling card of nu metal. Like if you listen to a Linkin Park song, the ones that incorporate the rapper guy don't have him doing it over a heavy riff. They actually just transition from sort of rap/hip hop drum and electric beats into a heavy chorus and back and forth. And later on they started experimenting with a bunch of different sounds to see what they could do, and you get some really unique tracks like Nobody's Listening. In that regard, they're more in the vein of a Muse, in that they put their emphasis as musicians on doing things new and different in the recording studio, and kind of made something uniquely them in the process. Obviously their inspirations are clearly different and you can hear that in the songs, but I think their approaches to music were similar.

Limp Bizkit on the other hand, was always 100% about writing the most energetic music they could, and translating that energy onto the stage. Wes Borland was a master at it, and he deserves a lot more credit and a lot bigger share of the identity of limp bizkit than he gets. The rapping was there, but they never flipped genres mid song like Linkin Park did. If you listen to a Limp Bizkit instrumental, it's rock all the way through, with the exception of a few outright rap songs. The transitions from Durst rapping to yelling are controlled by Wes dictating the flow. And he did a lot of cool things playing around with it. The guitar, drum, and bass in Almost Over in particular is something I still see a lot of merit in. Honestly, Fred Durst was just along for the ride. That's why he got away with writing lyrics that seemingly were just Fred hitting up rhymezone, finding two words that rhymed, and then mashing them to fit the song. Like the lines never flow together, and you never know what the gently caress he's talking about, but that didn't matter. All he had to do was give you some sort of GIMME SOMETHIN TO BREAK when Wes dropped that beefy riff. And it worked so goddamn well.

You know what's funny is that a few years ago, I saw Rammstein, and there was this band I had never heard of called combichrist opening for them. Of course, given the theme of it being a rammstein show, I wasn't surprised that combichrist were very theatrical on the stage. There's two drummers and they have a really unique style, and their sort of rhythmic tribal style really flowed well with it. But what really drew my eye was the guitar player. His stage presence was unbelievable. He was creepy and intense and 100 different things at once, and he completely captivated the crowd. Later on I was digging into it to see who he was, because I thought he was really talented. Turns out that combichrist's music is all written and recorded by the lead singer, and the "band" are just random guys who come on and play the parts. Who was playing the guitar during that show? Wes Borland, because of course it was. He's a hell of a performer.

Volkerball fucked around with this message at Aug 1, 2017 around 14:20

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012

YOU DON'T DESERVE
A BREAK TODAY


Lipstick Apathy

Volkerball posted:

Limp Bizkit on the other hand, was always 100% about writing the most energetic music they could, and translating that energy onto the stage. Wes Borland was a master at it, and he deserves a lot more credit and a lot bigger share of the identity of limp bizkit than he gets. The rapping was there, but they never flipped genres mid song like Linkin Park did. If you listen to a Limp Bizkit instrumental, it's rock all the way through, with the exception of a few outright rap songs. The transitions from Durst rapping to yelling are controlled by Wes dictating the flow. And he did a lot of cool things playing around with it. The guitar, drum, and bass in Almost Over in particular is something I still see a lot of merit in. Honestly, Fred Durst was just along for the ride. That's why he got away with writing lyrics that seemingly were just Fred hitting up rhymezone, finding two words that rhymed, and then mashing them to fit the song. Like the lines never flow together, and you never know what the gently caress he's talking about, but that didn't matter. All he had to do was give you some sort of GIMME SOMETHIN TO BREAK when Wes dropped that beefy riff. And it worked so goddamn well.
One kinda noteworthy thing when I search for live Limp Bizkit on YouTube, I get a lot of European festivals particularly in France and Russia, where the band still seems pretty popular. I would seriously reckon that lower English language proficiency in those countries might be part of the reason. The cringy lines don't seem so cringy and English has a gutteral power to it like German and the instruments still rock so

Durst's lyrics on "Shotgun" also poses the perennial question: What'cha gon' do when you're sitting all alone in your empty-rear end home with a motherfuckin' sawed-off? I'm like, well I never thought about that but it's a good question.

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009


Peak Fred Durst

quote:

Where you at Jacksonville, 
Rochester., Louisville, 
Columbia, Hartford, 
Milwaukee, and Lewiston Maine? 
where you at Providence, Nashville, 
Memphis, Lauderdale, 
Portland, Orlando, Chicago, and Frisco? 
I left my heart in Austin with Mary Campbell. 
Got lost in Boston lookin' for the tea party. 
Met a child molester in Worchester 
Need a Kleenex every time I'm leavin' Phoenix. 
I get silly when I play in Philly. 
Limp Bizkit committee down in Kansas City. 
Never know what I'm in for when I'm playin Denver. 
Hard rock don't stop down in Vegas. 
In Cincinnati the girls call me daddy 
and I probably aint leavin' the next time I'm in Cleveland. 
Found my lucky coin in Des Moines
and spit on a boy named Tina in Pasadena. 
We get the swing from New Orleans. 
Ft Worth and Dallas we toast when we're tippin' up the challis. 
Tulsa, St. Louis, Sacto, Mesa, Norfolk, Lawrence, Minneapolis, 
St. Paul, North Hampton, Detroit, Omaha, New York, LA, 
what can i say, i cant name em all. 
so somebody,
anybody, 
everybody
get the gently caress up!! 
show me what you got
Whooo ha
Show me what you got
hey ladies

These words rhyme!

Volkerball fucked around with this message at Aug 1, 2017 around 14:34

SamuraiFoochs
Jan 16, 2007



Grimey Drawer

Volkerball posted:

Peak Fred Durst


These words rhyme!

Okay see this is what I meant. And for the record I was probably too harsh, I shouldn't say Limp Bizkit's music is devoid of value because it gives some people a good time and that's cool. I guess I just always hated the LB/LP comparison because it always seemed really superficial and dumb and it almost invariably came from people who act like they know everything about music and are Smarter Than You.

I still can't stand Fred Durst though.

Oh and like 90% of music in every genre is formulaic so that as a pejorative baffles me.

SamuraiFoochs fucked around with this message at Aug 1, 2017 around 17:34

The Muppets On PCP
Nov 12, 2016



i didn't mean to invite a comparison between the two but i will say in limp bizkit's defense apart from fred durst they actually were legit talented musicians

SamuraiFoochs
Jan 16, 2007



Grimey Drawer

The Muppets On PCP posted:

i didn't mean to invite a comparison between the two but i will say in limp bizkit's defense apart from fred durst they actually were legit talented musicians

Yeah, I'll give you that but Fred Durst is Fred Durst. Shame really.

Sir Lemming
Jan 27, 2009

It's a piece of JUNK!

"DEDICATED TO YOU, BEN STILLER!
YOU ARE MY FAVORITE MOTHAFUKKA!"

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012

YOU DON'T DESERVE
A BREAK TODAY


Lipstick Apathy

Sir Lemming posted:

"DEDICATED TO YOU, BEN STILLER!
YOU ARE MY FAVORITE MOTHAFUKKA!"

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012

YOU DON'T DESERVE
A BREAK TODAY


Lipstick Apathy

But don't tell me you wouldn't be down with the L-I-M-P if Vin Diesel was your co-pilot in a spoilered-out Honda Civic and had just open palm-slapped a Chocolate Starfish CD into the deck while telling you to hit the nitro.

an skeleton
Apr 23, 2012

scowls @ u


I'm thoroughly enjoying Linkin Park's Live in Texas concert. I don't think there's an hour of live limp bizkit that i could listen to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mxg4VkkRRI

M1TCH3LL
Apr 1, 2005

Calling all girls of the opposite sex

I saw Limp Bizkit last year, supporting Korn in the UK. Not only were they more fun than Korn (and I say that as a huge apologist for Jonathan Davis and someone who's seen some amazing Korn shows) but I'll never get tired of Wes Borland failing to hide his disdain for Durst.

Plus, Limp Bizkit did provide one incredible piece of self-aware genius to support an incredible piece of self-unaware music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JGsRHvwhvQ

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009


Trivium has a new video out. Meh

https://youtu.be/RAoKcM54Q1Y

Keith Atherton
Feb 7, 2006



I used to hate Limp Bizkit because of Fred Durst but man they are a great band if you can tune out what he's yelling about and just treat his voice like another instrument

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

sets off a "weirdly specific fetish artwork" vibe

The thread title reminds me that while we're all confessing that we secretly kinda enjoy nu metal there remains not a single band labelled "post grunge" that I would ever voluntarily listen to.

financially racist
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!



as poo poo as nu metal is, even the worst cannot hold a candle to how bad the average post-grunge band is. i feel safe in saying it's the worst genre ever.

The Muppets On PCP
Nov 12, 2016



filk and contemporary christian are worse but red state radio rock is definitely up there

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009


Foo fighters are good.

The Muppets On PCP
Nov 12, 2016



is this the most nu-metal video ever made? i think it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJzeJiHHQOY

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012

oh god i'm allergic


What modern(ish) band would be considered post-grunge? I remember it being used as an insult when talking about Nickelback/Creed back in the day (and maybe Staind? I dunno) but I haven't heard the term used in conversation in a long time and I don't keep track of genres anymore.

Also I unabashedly really like Alter Bridge, do they a) fit in this thread and b) earn me a shocking amount of derision?

Sir Lemming
Jan 27, 2009

It's a piece of JUNK!

Puddle of Mudd would be Post-Grunge, right? I mean they came about 5 years after Kurt Cobain died and definitely wanted to be Nirvana, so I'd think they'd fit the bill. Anyway, they definitely had a handful of not-terrible songs.

The Muppets On PCP posted:

filk and contemporary christian are worse but red state radio rock is definitely up there

Well, "Contemporary Christian" basically means "whatever was popular 5 years ago" so it's pretty nebulous.

Minto Took
Dec 4, 2002



Fun Shoe

Sir Lemming posted:

Puddle of Mudd would be Post-Grunge, right?

Another thing we can thank Fred Durst for.

On the topic of Post-Grunge, I do like some Local H on occasion.

The Muppets On PCP
Nov 12, 2016



Sir Lemming posted:

Well, "Contemporary Christian" basically means "whatever was popular 5 years ago" so it's pretty nebulous.

nah it's a more specific thing than what you're thinking of, stuff like hillsong and michael w smith

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009


MockingQuantum posted:

What modern(ish) band would be considered post-grunge? I remember it being used as an insult when talking about Nickelback/Creed back in the day (and maybe Staind? I dunno) but I haven't heard the term used in conversation in a long time and I don't keep track of genres anymore.

Also I unabashedly really like Alter Bridge, do they a) fit in this thread and b) earn me a shocking amount of derision?

Yeah they fit. I don't like most of their stuff, but show me a leader is a really good track imo. Singer is kind of annoying tho.

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009


Re: Post Grunge, I'm not really sure how you define it. Nu metal itself is kind of difficult to define. To me, it encompasses at least 3 and probably more trends that popped up in the late nineties and the early 2000's. There was obviously the rap rock segment of it, but there was also a big industrial one (Rammstein, Static X, Powerman 5000, Rob Zombie, etc), and what I think Corey Taylor calls the new wave of American heavy metal (Slipknot, Disturbed, Godsmack, etc). For me, post grunge would be rock that became popular during that time period while being outside the scope of nu metal. So I'm thinking bands like Muse, Foo Fighters, and Queens of the Stone Age.

il_cornuto
Oct 10, 2004



Volkerball posted:

For me, post grunge would be rock that became popular during that time period while being outside the scope of nu metal. So I'm thinking bands like Muse, Foo Fighters, and Queens of the Stone Age.

I'd consider all of those rock bands, not post grunge at all. I've always heard it used to describe bands like Nickelback, Creed and 3 Doors Down - poppy anthemic hard rock I guess.

I think your singer has to sound like a lovely Eddie Vedder to really be post grunge.

A human heart
Oct 10, 2012



Post grunge is what I call a really good mail prank.

The Muppets On PCP
Nov 12, 2016



Volkerball posted:

and what I think Corey Taylor calls the new wave of American heavy metal (Slipknot, Disturbed, Godsmack, etc).

new wave of american heavy metal was stuff like lamb of god/shadows fall/killswitch engage/trivium/etc.



il_cornuto posted:

I'd consider all of those rock bands, not post grunge at all. I've always heard it used to describe bands like Nickelback, Creed and 3 Doors Down - poppy anthemic hard rock I guess.

I think your singer has to sound like a lovely Eddie Vedder to really be post grunge.

yeah pretty much. post-grunge is all the yarling bands foisted on the public starting in the mid-90s once the labels settled on a formula

The Muppets On PCP fucked around with this message at Aug 12, 2017 around 19:33

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012

YOU DON'T DESERVE
A BREAK TODAY


Lipstick Apathy

The Muppets On PCP posted:

is this the most nu-metal video ever made? i think it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJzeJiHHQOY
I hate having to do this and I am sorry to everyone but it's this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYTwIZslZXo

il_cornuto
Oct 10, 2004



The Muppets On PCP posted:

yeah pretty much. post-grunge is all the yarling bands foisted on the public starting in the mid-90s once the labels settled on a formula

quote:

To "yarl" is to sing melodramatically with a sort of barely suppressed letter "r" sound lurking beneath every other syllable.
That is a perfect description.

M1TCH3LL
Apr 1, 2005

Calling all girls of the opposite sex

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

I hate having to do this and I am sorry to everyone but it's this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYTwIZslZXo

Yeah, Adema are pretty much the poster children of nu-metal to me. Jonathan Davis' half-brother, without any of the charisma, talent or good-will from the first album. In fact, Adema's best album (equiv. of being world's tallest dwarf) was Planets which had a different lead singer.

However, I would also throw this into the mix as peak nu-metal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NbkxcNjH9w. Them, American Head Charge (who at the time felt a step above, but in hindsight I'm not sure) and Drowning Pool. Maybe Bodies could be considered quintessential nu-metal video of all time, but I feel that song may have transcended nu-metal too.

il_cornuto
Oct 10, 2004



I think what Nu Metal was probably worst at was covers. Linkin Park's Wish, Orgy's Blue Monday, Papa Roach's Where Is My Mind? and Limp Bizkit's Faith come to mind.

They tended to pick good songs and ruin them basically.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



I like the Deftones cover of Cocteau Twins Wax and Wane

il_cornuto
Oct 10, 2004



Deftones don't count as nu metal

Actually back when I was reading music magazines in the ATF - S/T era I saw them referred to as nu metal, emo, alt rock and post hardcore at different times. But yeah their cover of Sade's No Ordinary Love is great too.

The Muppets On PCP
Nov 12, 2016



BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

I hate having to do this and I am sorry to everyone but it's this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYTwIZslZXo

ooh that's definitely a contender. gonna have to bring out a deep cut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsl-TodL5sI

financially racist
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!



Earwicker posted:

I like the Deftones cover of Cocteau Twins Wax and Wane

abe's drumming in this

deftones are insanely good at covers. they even managed to be like the only band that covered the cure and weren't dogshit at it, prolly since chino takes a lot of vocal inspiration from robert smith.

il_cornuto posted:

Deftones don't count as nu metal

Actually back when I was reading music magazines in the ATF - S/T era I saw them referred to as nu metal, emo, alt rock and post hardcore at different times. But yeah their cover of Sade's No Ordinary Love is great too.

as mentioned, white pony was where they really departed from nu metal and solidified that move away from the genre with the s/t album. they were very important in forming the genre however.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



financially racist posted:

as mentioned, white pony was where they really departed from nu metal and solidified that move away from the genre with the s/t album. they were very important in forming the genre however.

I felt like their self titled was a step back. maybe not necessarily in terms of genre but more in terms of the songwriting was just really weak. I still listen to their old albums but always skip that one

Minto Took
Dec 4, 2002



Fun Shoe

Around the Fur is a stone cold classic.

financially racist
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!



Earwicker posted:

I felt like their self titled was a step back. maybe not necessarily in terms of genre but more in terms of the songwriting was just really weak. I still listen to their old albums but always skip that one

the s/t is my favorite album of theirs, followed by diamond eyes

hypersleep
Sep 17, 2011



I've been listening to a lot of late 90s / early 00s nu-metal lately and was surprised to see this thread. I discovered Islander a couple years ago but had no idea there were other bands resurrecting the genre.

Deftones is my favorite band of all time. They're still around and kicking, and released some of the best material of their career after they shed the nu-metal elements. They haven't released a bad album yet. Chino's side projects like Team Sleep, Crosses and Palms are all pretty drat good, too.

Most other bands broke up, faded into obscurity or stuck around but released weak material.

Spineshank was briefly resurrected when they released a new album in 2012, and while it was pretty ok, it shed the electronic elements of their previous albums, which was a letdown.

I liked Static-X's first album, but then they released increasingly weaker albums until they broke up. Then in 2014 Wayne Static died of a drug overdose. His wife committed suicide a year after.

I actually really liked Drowning Pool's first album, Sinner. Then their vocalist died while on tour. They got a new vocalist, but the band's subsequent material didn't grab me.

Orgy was in limbo for years and then released an EP in 2015 that was more EDM than anything.

I don't know what else is going on with most of the nu-metal bands. Slipknot and Disturbed apparently still exist somehow. I was never a Korn fan but I had a good laugh when they released a loving dubstep album. Talk about the stink of desperation.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Sir Lemming
Jan 27, 2009

It's a piece of JUNK!

hypersleep posted:

I don't know what else is going on with most of the nu-metal bands. Slipknot and Disturbed apparently still exist somehow. I was never a Korn fan but I had a good laugh when they released a loving dubstep album. Talk about the stink of desperation.

Nah, I think The Stink of Desperation is the title of their next album.

The dubstep album was actually pretty good, save for a few facepalm lyrical moments. Obviously it's hard to consider it a "pure" Korn album since there are so many producers' hands in it, but at this point in their careers, "pure" left town a long time ago. This was at least something that sounded different from anything else, a real genre fusion experiment rather than half-hearted "dubstep influences".

The 2 albums after that have been the most dire of their career by far, though. Head actually came back, but you can't even tell because it's so overproduced it somehow sounds more mechanical than the dubstep album. Beyond that though, the songwriting has gone off a cliff. It's just lifeless and generic. They obviously peaked a long time ago, but until the last 2 albums I've always found just enough interesting stuff on each album.

The one they eye-rollingly called Korn III, produced by Ross Robinson, was actually just on the verge of simultaneously recapturing their old energy and pushing them to new places. But they never quite got there.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply