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Errant Gin Monks
Oct 2, 2009

"Yeah..."
- Marshawn Lynch


Sandwich Anarchist posted:

Yeah, you right. I stopped posting because I was getting angry (obviously), but I took some time and talked to a couple different chefs I know about this to get their insight.

Firstly, it isn't illegal per se. U.S. labor laws say that an unpaid position can't benefit the company directly, and in fact might hinder it. Any time I've ever had a stage, he is babysat by a cook all night and ends up slowing that station down considerably, and the other cooks have to help them out playing catchup on prep.

That said, doing the paperwork and dealing with the payroll for a new hire and cutting them a check for what might be one night of work would be a nightmare. We could pay them under the table, and that's something some other chefs I know have started doing apparently, and I'm considering as well.

I hadn't heard about places removing the tip system, so I looked it up. Good to see there is some success there. I'll admit that it's much easier to jump into a pool that already has water in it.

Explosive hostility has a way of making people double down and lash out. Doesn't mean someone is a horrible person though. I've got our chef meeting tomorrow, and I'm going to float this and see where it takes us.

This is awesome and you are awesome. I hope you can implement changes and work for the betterment of the industry at large.

Thanks for being open minded and willing to embrace even the thought of change.

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Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Delicious and Nutritious



Fun Shoe

Sandwich Anarchist posted:

Yeah we typically have a chat by nights end about whether or not we want to bring them on, and a couple 20s and a handshake shouldn't be hard to swing. It's never been about the money, we are doing well enough, it's just the precedent that we thought existed. Sometimes you need a push to get moving.

And really, people have already spent $30 on custom avatars for me, so it's hard for me to stay mad in the face of laughing.

I'm glad to see you reconsidering. Good on you.

'The way it's always been done' is why a bunch of really hosed up abuses of employees keep carrying on in the industry, and the regulatory bodies aren't funded well enough to do much about it on the individual level other than play whack-a-mole until it rises to stuff like corporate chains not paying OT chain wide. People doing right on the individual business level is the best solution we've got right now.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at Aug 1, 2017 around 23:44

Hyperlynx
Sep 13, 2015



Sandwich Anarchist posted:

Yeah, you right. I stopped posting because I was getting angry (obviously), but I took some time and talked to a couple different chefs I know about this to get their insight.

Firstly, it isn't illegal per se. U.S. labor laws say that an unpaid position can't benefit the company directly, and in fact might hinder it. Any time I've ever had a stage, he is babysat by a cook all night and ends up slowing that station down considerably, and the other cooks have to help them out playing catchup on prep.

That said, doing the paperwork and dealing with the payroll for a new hire and cutting them a check for what might be one night of work would be a nightmare. We could pay them under the table, and that's something some other chefs I know have started doing apparently, and I'm considering as well.

I hadn't heard about places removing the tip system, so I looked it up. Good to see there is some success there. I'll admit that it's much easier to jump into a pool that already has water in it.

Explosive hostility has a way of making people double down and lash out. Doesn't mean someone is a horrible person though. I've got our chef meeting tomorrow, and I'm going to float this and see where it takes us.

Good on you, dude. I mean it. Both for knowing to stop posting when mad, considering opinions that made you mad when in a calm frame of mind, and considering changing your mind. None of that is easy.

Hyperlynx fucked around with this message at Aug 2, 2017 around 01:17

Samizdata
May 14, 2007


Errant Gin Monks posted:

Well good thing too, you could have been there and gotten a D

He should have found out if the inspector was down.

Malachite_Dragon
Mar 31, 2010

Weaving Merry Christmas Magic


Fallen Rib

The inspector gets down but unless you're into 50 Shades level of stuff, you won't like it.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Delicious and Nutritious



Fun Shoe

Hey man, some people are into elbow length rubber gloves and being given an itemized list of your failings. Don't judge.

The one true heezy
Mar 23, 2004


Staging is the practice that enables me, as an employed cook, to walk into a kitchen I find interesting and learn new stuff, free of hassle and concern for that kitchen's budget constraints. As much as I think you should pay serious prospective hires for their time in the kitchen, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the flexibility staging allows for being able to experience different food in different kitchens first hand as a journeyman. I guess I'm saying there is a difference between a stag and a working interview, and that stages shouldn't be paid while a working interviewee ought to be.

Also, I've staged for free and ended up working for the fairest and most generous chef ever. I've also been paid for my stages by chefs who puff their chest out while they hand me a 90 dollar check, but they don't actually pay their cooks poo poo. i also find that kitchens that pay their stages tend to be in more corporate environments, and are generally less efficient, creative, and less desirable to work in.

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008

A poptart is a pizza.



The one true heezy posted:

Staging is the practice that enables me, as an employed cook, to walk into a kitchen I find interesting and learn new stuff, free of hassle and concern for that kitchen's budget constraints. As much as I think you should pay serious prospective hires for their time in the kitchen, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the flexibility staging allows for being able to experience different food in different kitchens first hand as a journeyman. I guess I'm saying there is a difference between a stag and a working interview, and that stages shouldn't be paid while a working interviewee ought to be.

Also, I've staged for free and ended up working for the fairest and most generous chef ever. I've also been paid for my stages by chefs who puff their chest out while they hand me a 90 dollar check, but they don't actually pay their cooks poo poo. i also find that kitchens that pay their stages tend to be in more corporate environments, and are generally less efficient, creative, and less desirable to work in.

This is pretty succinct, good post

Republicans
Oct 14, 2003

- More money for us

- Fuck you


Oh Christ. Someone said they spotted cockroaches in the golf course garage, which is the bottom half of the building the restaurant is in. I hope the boric acid I keep down for the ants also keeps them the gently caress out but I just know they're gonna come up through the water pipes or something horrible.

Mezzanon
Sep 16, 2003



Just got racked by Easter European tourists last night. Which means I made my usual 20 % on most of my night but then got an average of 3% on four hundred dollars worth of sales. That's the way the dice land sometimes.

Willie Tomg
Feb 2, 2006


Trebuchet King posted:

Hm, an interesting development.

for context, at the marina I live at I run a little breakfast buffet for our members and guests every saturday during the boating season--me and a bunch of other members get up and make it happen, and it's nothing too fancy. Bacon, fruit salad, yogurts, croissants, omelet bar, etc. We've got all the appropriate city licensing to serve food and I have my documentation. It's fun but I've long thought of it just a way to blow off the stress of the work week, and when people have complimented me on it before I'd generally graciously deflect (couldn't do it without other volunteers, etc., that kind of thing) but thank them for the compliment all the same. Usually we'd serve low 30s, coverwise, but we've gotten as high as 60.

Today I got an email from a member asking me if I'd be willing to cook for around 30 people for a week as part of an OBX wedding.

It's soon enough that I'm not sure I could get the time off, so this is a huge if. The soonness also makes me wonder if a previous plan fell through. I'm working on a response in my head, and the first and most obvious question is of course compensation. I'm going to ask for a couple days just to try and mull logistics, etc. but mostly so I can get my boss's (who has done this kind of thing before) opinion since Thursday's when next both he and I are working together.

I guess the next questions after compensation would be menu needs/expectations, budget for additional hands (for serving or prep or whatever), what the kitchen is like...honestly I'm daunted enough by being asked my brain's kinda freewheeling.

If nothing else this is making me more confident that jumping to the other side of the house would be a good move, I guess.

On that notice, anything under $40 a head with an 18% autograt for servers--and you will need at least one while you hump service--is an insult. Don't do it for a loving penny less. Good luck.

e; oh jesus i glossed over how it was a week long commitment. yeah, try a hundred per head for the week. AT LEAST. AT LEAST. thats just one meal provided on a week long basis. multiply that if they ask for breakfast, lunch AND dinner or if they want apps start thinking in terms of $3-4 per whores d'oeurvre. EACH. if they can party at the loving marina for a week but can't front that cash, then they're just loving with you.


Sandwich Anarchist posted:

Yeah, you right. I stopped posting because I was getting angry (obviously), but I took some time and talked to a couple different chefs I know about this to get their insight.

Firstly, it isn't illegal per se. U.S. labor laws say that an unpaid position can't benefit the company directly, and in fact might hinder it. Any time I've ever had a stage, he is babysat by a cook all night and ends up slowing that station down considerably, and the other cooks have to help them out playing catchup on prep.

That said, doing the paperwork and dealing with the payroll for a new hire and cutting them a check for what might be one night of work would be a nightmare. We could pay them under the table, and that's something some other chefs I know have started doing apparently, and I'm considering as well.

I hadn't heard about places removing the tip system, so I looked it up. Good to see there is some success there. I'll admit that it's much easier to jump into a pool that already has water in it.

Explosive hostility has a way of making people double down and lash out. Doesn't mean someone is a horrible person though. I've got our chef meeting tomorrow, and I'm going to float this and see where it takes us.


Thank you for being cool and considering some new poo poo. Industries are no more or less than a collection of professionals and you demean your role as such in thinking problems are too large to be addressed.

Willie Tomg fucked around with this message at Aug 2, 2017 around 19:40

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This user's endless pedantry is kept grey.

Key words: nutrition, philosophy, regulatory science, law, shallow realpolitik, fake cheese, game design fanfiction.

There are more criteria for unpaid work to be legal than "did not directly benefit the company". Also the stage being slower than usual or having some detriment isn't sufficient if they're displacing someone else, or if they're occupying an otherwise unfilled position.

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008

A poptart is a pizza.



Discendo Vox posted:

There are more criteria for unpaid work to be legal than "did not directly benefit the company". Also the stage being slower than usual or having some detriment isn't sufficient if they're displacing someone else, or if they're occupying an otherwise unfilled position.

There are more criteria of course (the stage learns something, it is to the benefit of the stage, they don't displace employees, they aren't guaranteed a job, and both parties understand that there is no pay), but generally, in my experience anyway, a stage is never occupying an unfilled spot. They are there to shadow a station with a commis. Even before I was running a place, I had never seen a stage fill an empty slot; they are always an extra hand.

cods
Nov 13, 2005

Oh snap-kins!

Hi there, Chef goon moving to L.A. from NYC.

Got rid of our stuff, and our apt, and job Living with a friend. I have a recruiter working on a couple leads out there/applying to stuff.

I am wanting to get back into hotels, and Im moving from across the country(figuring out now im probably going to have to fly out for a tasting soon) blind, and it looks like a going to take a pretty big hit on salary and title. This was to be expected, and kinda the price to pay for going corporate.

I'm willing to suck it up for a year or two if it gets my foot in the door of a nice hotel over there. If memory serves me right, most of the chefs i worked under in hotels were all mostly from other cties and usually their foot in the door job, or a transfer from another property. All kinda coming together now.

And while the money is better in stand alones, I am so ready to sell my soul for stability, security, and in the long run hopefully more money going corporate.

Also since it looks like im going to have to do a tasting for just about worthwhile job out there, my wife and i are just thinking of saying gently caress it and just moving out there at the end of the month anyway. I can maybe afford going out there(i have to pay for this) like 4 days to do tastings.

Errant Gin Monks
Oct 2, 2009

"Yeah..."
- Marshawn Lynch


Good luck dude.

A Man and his dog
Oct 24, 2013

by R. Guyovich




We hired some guy this morning and he quit in ten minutes....

Mezzanon
Sep 16, 2003



A Man and his dog posted:



We hired some guy this morning and he quit in ten minutes....

Did you get to gently caress him at least?

A Man and his dog
Oct 24, 2013

by R. Guyovich


Sadly I didn't even get his name.

The food truck came in and he was like "oh gently caress this poo poo isn't for me"

RIP.

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008

A poptart is a pizza.



A Man and his dog posted:

Sadly I didn't even get his name.

The food truck came in and he was like "oh gently caress this poo poo isn't for me"

RIP.

I had a dishwasher quit his first night because he was "tired of washing pots and pans". RIP

TheKennedys
Sep 23, 2006

Take my hand, and I will lead you from this godforsaken internet


We lost one after two days because he could not manage to stop arguing with the GM about anything she asked him to do. We're all guilty of challenging her on things we think are dumb and/or inefficient, but this guy was the one that apparently had no idea how to talk to someone that's your ultimate boss in a brand new job. Maybe because our GM is young and blonde and Californian people don't take her seriously, but they typically learn really quick where the line is (just shut up and make her happy).

Naelyan
Jul 21, 2007
Far from perfect, but better than you...

Fun Shoe

Mezzanon posted:

Did you get to gently caress him at least?

A Man and his dog posted:

Sadly I didn't even get his name.

You didn't answer the question.

Republicans
Oct 14, 2003

- More money for us

- Fuck you


One of our servers rushed through our kitchen to the back door facing the bathroom in a very urgent, panicked manner. About fifteen minutes later I go to the bathroom and find someone has explosively shat on the handicap stall floor. One of the other cooks went to check on him at some point and found him outside where he was coaxed back to work.

Would intentionally making diarrhea noises with a squeeze bottle when he's present be too mean?

iospace
Apr 20, 2020




Fun Shoe

Republicans posted:

One of our servers rushed through our kitchen to the back door facing the bathroom in a very urgent, panicked manner. About fifteen minutes later I go to the bathroom and find someone has explosively shat on the handicap stall floor. One of the other cooks went to check on him at some point and found him outside where he was coaxed back to work.

Would intentionally making diarrhea noises with a squeeze bottle when he's present be too mean?

As one of the few people who actually cleans the bathrooms, yes.

Hauki
May 11, 2010



Republicans posted:

One of our servers rushed through our kitchen to the back door facing the bathroom in a very urgent, panicked manner. About fifteen minutes later I go to the bathroom and find someone has explosively shat on the handicap stall floor. One of the other cooks went to check on him at some point and found him outside where he was coaxed back to work.

Would intentionally making diarrhea noises with a squeeze bottle when he's present be too mean?

nah

GhostofJohnMuir
Aug 14, 2014

anime is not good


Republicans posted:

One of our servers rushed through our kitchen to the back door facing the bathroom in a very urgent, panicked manner. About fifteen minutes later I go to the bathroom and find someone has explosively shat on the handicap stall floor. One of the other cooks went to check on him at some point and found him outside where he was coaxed back to work.

Would intentionally making diarrhea noises with a squeeze bottle when he's present be too mean?

hope he shat himself due to poor diet and excessive drinking and not foodborne illness

A Man and his dog
Oct 24, 2013

by R. Guyovich


Republicans posted:

One of our servers rushed through our kitchen to the back door facing the bathroom in a very urgent, panicked manner. About fifteen minutes later I go to the bathroom and find someone has explosively shat on the handicap stall floor. One of the other cooks went to check on him at some point and found him outside where he was coaxed back to work.

Would intentionally making diarrhea noises with a squeeze bottle when he's present be too mean?

I'm sorry but

Chef De Cuisinart
Oct 31, 2010

Brandy does in fact, in my experience, contribute to Getting Down.

Got fired from my dream job after I hit my head, passed out, and went on autopilot thanks to my anxiety meds and scared the poo poo out of everyone and drank a whole bottle of tequila.


Reason for termination? My potentially mind altering PRESCRIBED medications could be a clear and present danger to myself and others.

e: oh sure, I'll just stop taking those so I can go back to being a binge drinking ball of stress.

The Midniter
Jul 9, 2001



Chef De Cuisinart posted:

Got fired from my dream job after I hit my head, passed out, and went on autopilot thanks to my anxiety meds and scared the poo poo out of everyone and drank a whole bottle of tequila.


Reason for termination? My potentially mind altering PRESCRIBED medications could be a clear and present danger to myself and others.

e: oh sure, I'll just stop taking those so I can go back to being a binge drinking ball of stress.

Well that was fast. What now?

THE MACHO MAN
Nov 15, 2007

...Carey...

draw me like one of your French Canadian girls


Republicans posted:

One of our servers rushed through our kitchen to the back door facing the bathroom in a very urgent, panicked manner. About fifteen minutes later I go to the bathroom and find someone has explosively shat on the handicap stall floor. One of the other cooks went to check on him at some point and found him outside where he was coaxed back to work.

Would intentionally making diarrhea noises with a squeeze bottle when he's present be too mean?

oh god

and because he was working, I assume he wasnt' the poor son of a bitch who cleaned that??

Chef De Cuisinart
Oct 31, 2010

Brandy does in fact, in my experience, contribute to Getting Down.

The Midniter posted:

Well that was fast. What now?

I applied around, already got some call backs for sous positions, and one catering manager position. I'll bounce back in a week or two no problem. I've also got a full size paycheck coming my way and 10k in my 401k if I absolutely have to.

e: lawyer bud said I should sue them since the employee handbook prohibit s the use of antipsychotics, which is a violation of the ADA, but I doubt it's worth my time or effort.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Delicious and Nutritious



Fun Shoe

Chef De Cuisinart posted:

I applied around, already got some call backs for sous positions, and one catering manager position. I'll bounce back in a week or two no problem. I've also got a full size paycheck coming my way and 10k in my 401k if I absolutely have to.

e: lawyer bud said I should sue them since the employee handbook prohibit s the use of antipsychotics, which is a violation of the ADA, but I doubt it's worth my time or effort.

Do it. Likely he can get fees out of them, and gently caress them for that.

Trebuchet King
Jul 5, 2005

This post...

...is a
WORK OF FICTION!!



Chef De Cuisinart posted:

I applied around, already got some call backs for sous positions, and one catering manager position. I'll bounce back in a week or two no problem. I've also got a full size paycheck coming my way and 10k in my 401k if I absolutely have to.

e: lawyer bud said I should sue them since the employee handbook prohibit s the use of antipsychotics, which is a violation of the ADA, but I doubt it's worth my time or effort.

what did we spend like the first four pages of this thread screaming about

Mezzanon
Sep 16, 2003



Chef De Cuisinart posted:

I applied around, already got some call backs for sous positions, and one catering manager position. I'll bounce back in a week or two no problem. I've also got a full size paycheck coming my way and 10k in my 401k if I absolutely have to.

e: lawyer bud said I should sue them since the employee handbook prohibit s the use of antipsychotics, which is a violation of the ADA, but I doubt it's worth my time or effort.

Joy is fleeting, dinner service is forever.

Willie Tomg
Feb 2, 2006


Chef De Cuisinart posted:

Got fired from my dream job after I hit my head, passed out, and went on autopilot thanks to my anxiety meds and scared the poo poo out of everyone and drank a whole bottle of tequila.


Reason for termination? My potentially mind altering PRESCRIBED medications could be a clear and present danger to myself and others.

e: oh sure, I'll just stop taking those so I can go back to being a binge drinking ball of stress.

So you're saying, they need a sous chef...

A Man and his dog
Oct 24, 2013

by R. Guyovich


Chef De Cuisinart posted:

Got fired from my dream job after I hit my head, passed out, and went on autopilot thanks to my anxiety meds and scared the poo poo out of everyone and drank a whole bottle of tequila.


Reason for termination? My potentially mind altering PRESCRIBED medications could be a clear and present danger to myself and others.

e: oh sure, I'll just stop taking those so I can go back to being a binge drinking ball of stress.

lol Owns.

Errant Gin Monks
Oct 2, 2009

"Yeah..."
- Marshawn Lynch


Chef De Cuisinart posted:

Got fired from my dream job after I hit my head, passed out, and went on autopilot thanks to my anxiety meds and scared the poo poo out of everyone and drank a whole bottle of tequila.


Reason for termination? My potentially mind altering PRESCRIBED medications could be a clear and present danger to myself and others.

e: oh sure, I'll just stop taking those so I can go back to being a binge drinking ball of stress.

What the gently caress did you hit your head on... And why did you then drink an entire bottle of Tequila.

And how did you not die?

Republicans
Oct 14, 2003

- More money for us

- Fuck you


THE MACHO MAN posted:

oh god

and because he was working, I assume he wasnt' the poor son of a bitch who cleaned that??

The golf course staff maintains the bathroom so I'm gonna say it makes us even for making special meals for the vegan guy they have.

Left a helluva stain, too.

Naelyan
Jul 21, 2007
Far from perfect, but better than you...

Fun Shoe

Chef De Cuisinart posted:

Got fired from my dream job after I hit my head, passed out, and went on autopilot thanks to my anxiety meds and scared the poo poo out of everyone and drank a whole bottle of tequila.


Reason for termination? My potentially mind altering PRESCRIBED medications could be a clear and present danger to myself and others.

e: oh sure, I'll just stop taking those so I can go back to being a binge drinking ball of stress.

Well gently caress, sorry to hear that CDC, though I know you'll have no issue finding something else. I hope the mental health is doing alright. Take care of yourself.

Stuntman
Feb 6, 2010

by Lowtax


Chef De Cuisinart posted:

I applied around, already got some call backs for sous positions, and one catering manager position. I'll bounce back in a week or two no problem. I've also got a full size paycheck coming my way and 10k in my 401k if I absolutely have to.

e: lawyer bud said I should sue them since the employee handbook prohibit s the use of antipsychotics, which is a violation of the ADA, but I doubt it's worth my time or effort.
It's worth your time and effort to help others in your situation not be unfairly treated.

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TheParadigm
Dec 10, 2009



Errant Gin Monks posted:

What the gently caress did you hit your head on... And why did you then drink an entire bottle of Tequila.

And how did you not die?

At the very least, uh, pursue your workman's comp for the head injury. Retaliating at people for getting hurt on the job is the biggest no no out there. if its a dream job, well, sometimes the result is 'i guess we have to suck it up and unfire this guy/give him his job back.'

Osha is your friend.

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