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Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008




Gravy Boat 2k

Buu will wake up after Vegeta loses, and he'll turn Goku and Vegeta into candy and eat them. You'll get Gogeta/Vegito Buu.




This will not happen but it's making me smile thinking about it.

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Nanigans
Aug 31, 2005

~Waku Waku~


Beerus just said he wants to eat something tasty, immediately followed by Whis telling Merus that only GoD can interfere in mortal affairs.

Beerus is going to tsundere his way to Earth and help, with the excuse being that he was hungry.

Vegeta is a moron and should actually keep using IT. It’s not like Goku would care. He’s absolutely not getting the W for this. Not alone.

Merus and the twins will still play some role.

Boo/Grand Supreme Kai still has to do something.

Mastered Ultra Instinct is still a thing.

There’s like six Chekhov’s guns left.

I will say, the panel composition during the majority of Goku and Moro’s fight was actually...really good?

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Tin Can Hit Man posted:

I dunno, I'm not really feeling it. Yeah, UI getting chumped feels really lame for some reason. Even if Whis goes out of his way to explain Goku is "using it wrong", it's like, isn't that the whole point? That he's supposed to run on some kind of godly instinct and not his dumb monkey brain?

This is my issue with it too. It literally should not be possible to use UI "wrong", as the entire point of UI is that you stop thinking and let your body move you. Even in -Sign- Goku's defenses should be basically perfect, but instead we're shown Goku fighting as he always has had. In fact, maybe even worse, since trying to brute force a power-up is very un-Goku (though it's pretty Toyotaro Goku, considering he did the same in the ToP in the manga). In the end it's clear that UI is being used as a generic power-up, which is immensely disappointing considering how unique it was in the anime.

Augus posted:

that's just the exact shots copy/pasted from the episode but with bad tweening

Which still hits the right notes more than FighterZ did, and having to travel on a rock to make up for the lack of Kefla blast thing was actually quite clever.

Nanigans posted:

Vegeta is a moron and should actually keep using IT. It’s not like Goku would care. He’s absolutely not getting the W for this. Not alone.

I read that as Vegeta saying he can't rather than he won't. He didn't actually train to learn IT, he went through heavy trial-and-error because he had to get to Earth now. He can't actually use it at will, he has no idea of the theory without the stress of "do it or everyone you love dies". He could train to get it, but that'd imply either getting to Yardrat again (ten days of travel) or asking Kakarot for help (not happening).

That said he then smugs his way through by saying he has something even better so I guess he didn't particularly care anyways.

Rudoku
Jun 15, 2003

Damn I need a drink...




Blaze Dragon posted:

This is my issue with it too. It literally should not be possible to use UI "wrong"

He used it "wrong" fighting Kefla in the anime, all dodging and no attack power, so there's that. I'll chalk it up to that + time running out.

Parrotine
Dec 19, 2012

Wolverine with Parrots!


FooF posted:

There's no doubt in my mind that Vegeta will actually "win" against Moro but due to [reasons], Moro can't be defeated in the traditional way. I'm very curious what he learned, though, and cocky Vegeta is the best.

Both Goku and Vegeta will fail, fusion won't be an option, and Merus is going to defy Angel law and fight Moro himself using UI. Either Merus wins outright and gets depowered/annihilated, Whis intervenes and does something to him, or Merus sacrifices himself but no matter what, Merus is a goner for doing the "right" thing. They've already set him up as an Angel with a conscience.

If Merus tries so much as to throw a punch in the general direction of Moro he will get deleted on the spot, he couldnt do poo poo if he tried

Pyrus Malus
Nov 22, 2007
APPLES

Really well done fight but they're really just making UI Sign into super saiyan 5 lmao

also did vegeta turn a yardrat guy into like 20 smaller yardrat guys? is that the power? is he gonna split up moro and then step on em?

Tin Can Hit Man
Jul 30, 2003

try to catch him if you can

Pyrus Malus posted:

also did vegeta turn a yardrat guy into like 20 smaller yardrat guys? is that the power? is he gonna split up moro and then step on em?

They looked pretty disoriented. So he probably learned how to create them. Existence is pain to a Yardrat.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010


Vegeta's new power only works when used off-panel. Goku will save the day by drawing the manga's attention, and then we'll cut back to Moro having been beaten by Vegeta, who can never use this ability again.

Slightly Absurd
Mar 22, 2004




I feel like Vegeta's gonna get to lay a nice beatdown on Moro, but then Moro's gonna be like, "poo poo, didn't think I was gonna have to use this technique," then instantly chumps Vegeta. But Vegeta's new technique will probably ultimately teach Goku something about Ultra Instinct, then Goku gets to fight a bit, but his body craps out or something, then Buu or Merus will probably swoop in for the win.

But I'm amazingly bad about what predicting Dragon Ball will do

Parrotine
Dec 19, 2012

Wolverine with Parrots!


More people speculate on what kind of asspull technique Vegeta will do during his Moro fight cause I got nothing and waiting a whole month for the answer is gonna kill me

Siliziumleben
Dec 4, 2003

The scientists' findings were astounding! They discovered that the powers of the Metroid might be harnessed for the good of civilization!

How can I receive a notification when a new chapter of a manga on Shueisha's Manga Plus is released? There's no RSS feed or newsletter from what I can see.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010


Vegeta has used Yardrat training to perfect his Bingo Dance, and will use it to entertain Moro to the point that he agrees to spare planets and instead learn about the art of interpretive dance.

This will continue to be a running theme with villains, each of them finding something from Earth culture that leads them to spare the planet and put their efforts into experiencing or improving themselves in one hobby or another.

Eventually, after Cell Dorado gets into Gunpla, true peace will be achieved and Universe 7 will have the highest mortal rank in the multiverse.

Then Android 22 will wake up.

EimiYoshikawa
Sep 12, 2017

Defective, dumb, and self-destructive.

This metaphor is getting a little heavy-handed.


Megamarm

Nanigans posted:

Beerus just said he wants to eat something tasty, immediately followed by Whis telling Merus that only GoD can interfere in mortal affairs.

Beerus is going to tsundere his way to Earth and help, with the excuse being that he was hungry.

Everything else aside, this was my immediate assumption upon seeing that line, too.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
how about we just not have the toilet cthulhu

Kurui Reiten posted:

Vegeta has used Yardrat training to perfect his Bingo Dance, and will use it to entertain Moro to the point that he agrees to spare planets and instead learn about the art of interpretive dance.

This will continue to be a running theme with villains, each of them finding something from Earth culture that leads them to spare the planet and put their efforts into experiencing or improving themselves in one hobby or another.

Eventually, after Cell Dorado gets into Gunpla, true peace will be achieved and Universe 7 will have the highest mortal rank in the multiverse.

Then Android 22 will wake up.

P sure this is still literally just Steven Universe

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


Slightly Absurd posted:

I feel like Vegeta's gonna get to lay a nice beatdown on Moro, but then Moro's gonna be like, "poo poo, didn't think I was gonna have to use this technique," then instantly chumps Vegeta. But Vegeta's new technique will probably ultimately teach Goku something about Ultra Instinct, then Goku gets to fight a bit, but his body craps out or something, then Buu or Merus will probably swoop in for the win.

But I'm amazingly bad about what predicting Dragon Ball will do

That actually sounds like a reasonable expectation for Dragon Ball Super.



Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 09:08 on May 21, 2020

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

EimiYoshikawa posted:

Everything else aside, this was my immediate assumption upon seeing that line, too.

You’d think he wouldn’t have to make up excuses to stop the guy who’s destroying multiple planets a day, right? I wanna see the god rules that give Moro and Freeza and pass but put the Saiyans on the chopping block.

Parrotine
Dec 19, 2012

Wolverine with Parrots!


Siliziumleben posted:

How can I receive a notification when a new chapter of a manga on Shueisha's Manga Plus is released? There's no RSS feed or newsletter from what I can see.

Honestly I just put an alert on my phone calendar, drops on the 20th every month at 9/10 my local time (CST zone).

Pyrus Malus
Nov 22, 2007
APPLES

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!



I don't know who does these, but they're always great.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
how about we just not have the toilet cthulhu

I think it doesn't help that 'MORE POWEEEEER' has been the correct solution to like 90% of Goku's fights thus far.

Figures the big twist to make Dragon Ball interesting is to rip off Jojo more.

Zedd
Jul 6, 2009

I mean, who would have noticed another madman around here?




This is a series where Vegeta learned to blow himself up so well that he now survives it.

Monaghan
Dec 29, 2006




This guy criticisms can ignore all context, because it's shown that goku's in an absolutey desperate state against Moro and has no tricks left. Like what else is he supposed to do but go for broke?

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


Ghost Leviathan posted:

I think it doesn't help that 'MORE POWEEEEER' has been the correct solution to like 90% of Goku's fights thus far.

Figures the big twist to make Dragon Ball interesting is to rip off Jojo more.

I like when Goku comes up with really good moves through analysis, even if that seems like it should be more of Vegeta's thing. Like when he notices the length of time it takes Hatchiyak to charge up his attack while everyone else is just going ham and charging in head-first.

Tin Can Hit Man
Jul 30, 2003

try to catch him if you can

Monaghan posted:

This guy criticisms can ignore all context, because it's shown that goku's in an absolutey desperate state against Moro and has no tricks left. Like what else is he supposed to do but go for broke?

No. He's "using it wrong". Whis said so.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP



Id read it kore as goku panics and his monkey fight brain starts gaining ground over his divine martial artist state

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012



You don't need to give toyotaro the benefits of the doubt

Siegkrow
Oct 11, 2013

HURR DURR ASK ME ABOUT HOW I CAN'T STOP MENTIONING I THINK PEOPLE WHO LIKE A GAME CHARACTER ARE ACTUALLY GENOCIDE APOLOGISTS


Ahh now that it is poo poo it is Toyotaro. When it was good it was all Toriyama.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008




Gravy Boat 2k

I have decided in the pursuit of fairness to all parties involved, that all of DB: S is officially bad, regardless of its medium.


Toei, Toriyama and Toyotaro can sit in their corner and think about what they've done.

multijoe
Oct 15, 2007

how do i say this ... the first time i saw that ultimate life form ... i had a boner

Fun Shoe

Honestly I don't think Toei's staff don't get enough credit, the anime's usually superior takes on Toriyama's outlines were all on the writers and animation directors. Don't think it's really fair to blame Toyotaro entirely for UI:Omen jobbing when it appears to be Toriyama reverting to form by chucking last arc's transformation in the bin.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015

BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 2010
I am trash mon
410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS


turning the big dial that says "written by toriyama" and "not written by toriyama"

Tin Can Hit Man
Jul 30, 2003

try to catch him if you can

Siegkrow posted:

Ahh now that it is poo poo it is Toyotaro. When it was good it was all Toriyama.

I blame Goku.

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013


So when was it ever stated that using UI automatically means you're using God ki?

multijoe
Oct 15, 2007

how do i say this ... the first time i saw that ultimate life form ... i had a boner

Fun Shoe

It was a pretty clear implication when Goku's hair turned silver to fight in the Angel style

Still gets me that the Gohan Blanco meme accurately predicted the transformation both in visuals and story, the only thing it got wrong was thinking it would be anyone but Goku who got to use it

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

Perfected UI in the anime was Super Saiyan White anyway so complaints about it feeling cheapened now don't really scan for me.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Rigged Death Trap posted:

Id read it kore as goku panics and his monkey fight brain starts gaining ground over his divine martial artist state

But then it makes no sense UI is still active, since UI is foremost a mental state, which then triggers a transformation, not the other way around. Goku being 100% himself while on UI, even Sign, is a contradiction to what we were shown of the form during the Tournament of Power.

multijoe posted:

Honestly I don't think Toei's staff don't get enough credit, the anime's usually superior takes on Toriyama's outlines were all on the writers and animation directors. Don't think it's really fair to blame Toyotaro entirely for UI:Omen jobbing when it appears to be Toriyama reverting to form by chucking last arc's transformation in the bin.

The more time passes, the more I realize that Toei's writers really were the best part of Super. Toriyama's outlines are fine but they took that and made something great out of them, and the non-poo poo animators did an impressive job in bringing it all to life.

I'm not sure if it's Toyotaro or Toriyama in charge, I thought Toriyama had completely taken over writing but this week's Goku felt far more like Toyotaro's own take on the character (MUST BUFF UP I AM A lovely STUDENT) and Vegeta also felt a bit Toyotaro-ish (SMUG SMUG SMUG but he had just enough actual good points to not be Toyotaro's incredibly lovely Cell Saga Vegeta). Then again, at this point I have no idea if the parts I really like of Super come from Toriyama, Toei, or they're just a happy accident from the clash of too many people involved.

Darth TNT posted:

So when was it ever stated that using UI automatically means you're using God ki?

Whis says that Goku entered the realm of the gods with UI when Goku's back explodes. There were likely more moments that had people point out it uses godly Ki but that one comes to mind.

Pureauthor posted:

Perfected UI in the anime was Super Saiyan White anyway so complaints about it feeling cheapened now don't really scan for me.

It really wasn't. Goku fought in a very different, kind of inhuman way with UI active, and even his personality became way too subdued, to a creepy (and cool) extent. Goku forcing his way through like he did this chapter is very un-UI in execution, and even un-Goku.

Also, talking about Goku, I love that a FighterZ match can now be fought entirely by Gokus.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008




Gravy Boat 2k

multijoe posted:

Honestly I don't think Toei's staff don't get enough credit, the anime's usually superior takes on Toriyama's outlines were all on the writers and animation directors. Don't think it's really fair to blame Toyotaro entirely for UI:Omen jobbing when it appears to be Toriyama reverting to form by chucking last arc's transformation in the bin.

Conversely I will always blame Toei for giving us Broly, and just because Toriyama fixed that whole disaster doesn't change how awful Broly used to be.


"But that was ____ years ago!" I won't ever forget that man's lame rear end maximum power.

Tin Can Hit Man
Jul 30, 2003

try to catch him if you can

Blaze Dragon posted:

Also, talking about Goku, I love that a FighterZ match can now be fought entirely by Gokus.


You literally have everything from Base Goku, to SS, SSBlue, SS4, SSRosé and UI.

Nanigans
Aug 31, 2005

~Waku Waku~


Shinjobi posted:

Conversely I will always blame Toei for giving us Broly, and just because Toriyama fixed that whole disaster doesn't change how awful Broly used to be.


"But that was ____ years ago!" I won't ever forget that man's lame rear end maximum power.

That guy was specifically Yamamuro's creation.

The same Yamamuro that gave us banana hair super saiyan's and Super's overall ugly design aesthetic. Also in charge of the downright fugly Super Dragon Ball Heroes anime.

The same Yamamuro who intended Beerus to be a "virus" and be the being that infected saiyans in the first place and make them evil until Toriyama took that name, thought he meant "Beer" and then said "no, he's my cat."

The same Yamamuro who publicly whined about Beerus being weaker looking than his awesome creation Broly but somehow stronger and how he didn't even bother to see the new movie in theaters.

Yamamuro loving sucks.

Nanigans fucked around with this message at 20:26 on May 21, 2020

Skeleton Mom
Aug 11, 2008



Blueberry Pancakes posted:

I don't know who does these, but they're always great.

https://twitter.com/MatoiRisu/statu...3795171328?s=19

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Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Nanigans posted:

That guy was specifically Yamamuro's creation.

The same Yamamuro that gave us banana hair super saiyan's and Super's overall ugly design aesthetic. Also in charge of the downright fugly Super Dragon Ball Heroes anime.

The same Yamamuro who intended Beerus to be a "virus" and be the being that infected saiyans in the first place and make them evil until Toriyama took that name, thought he meant "Beer" and then said "no, he's my cat."

The same Yamamuro who publicly whined about Beerus being weaker looking than his awesome creation Broly but somehow stronger and how he didn't even bother to see the new movie in theaters.

Yamamuro loving sucks.

That's not true. Yamamuro is an artist, he has nothing to do with the writing. He's completely to blame for art choices in Super (except Broly) and Heroes, you are correct there, but he did not have anything to do with writing choices, much less whining about Beerus and Broly.

All of the things you're complaining about here (again, other than Super's art) are the fault of Takao Koyama.

It's also important to remember that people aren't black and white. Yamamuro had impressive animation during late Z, giving us some of the nicest moments in the movies, he got a lot worse with time but search for his old stuff, dude was impressive back then and it's easy to see why Toei would place him in such an important position as is the animation director of their biggest franchise, even if now he's terrible. Takao Koyama wrote every non-canon Dragon Ball movie and OVA, and while most are terrible, that makes him responsible for the good ones as well like Bardock - The Father of Goku, Cooler's first movie and Fusion Reborn.

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