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Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010


We really don't know exactly HOW Potara work. I mean, originally it was going to be permanent, and Elder Kai stayed fused after removing his. They retconned it into only being permanent for Kaioshin, and from there we haven't really seen any absolutely unassailable evidence for defusion methods other than time/power drain and wishes.

We see Goku Black's earring get cracked, but that never feeds into anything. We see Kefla unfused when Kale and Caulifla land in the stands, but despite the earrings breaking we can't be sure that wasn't due to other reasons, like the teleportation to the stands undoing it, or her power running out at that point. The earrings breaking could just be intended to tell us "and we're taking these out of the equation too".

Now, yeah, it probably WAS supposed to be "the Potara broke so the fusion failed", but I'm just saying that it's not absolutely, 100% definitive, so it's hard to argue one way or the other for sure.

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
how about we just not have the toilet cthulhu

Burkion posted:

Let's be super honest, only Kale was pulling her weight power wise. Kefla is basically Cauli's personality married to Kale's muscle.

That's probably the only reason she wasn't able to 1 v 1 Jiren herself

All she needs to unlock her true power is to break into a musical number.

Nanigans
Aug 31, 2005

~Waku Waku~


Kurui Reiten posted:

We really don't know exactly HOW Potara work. I mean, originally it was going to be permanent, and Elder Kai stayed fused after removing his. They retconned it into only being permanent for Kaioshin, and from there we haven't really seen any absolutely unassailable evidence for defusion methods other than time/power drain and wishes.

We see Goku Black's earring get cracked, but that never feeds into anything. We see Kefla unfused when Kale and Caulifla land in the stands, but despite the earrings breaking we can't be sure that wasn't due to other reasons, like the teleportation to the stands undoing it, or her power running out at that point. The earrings breaking could just be intended to tell us "and we're taking these out of the equation too".

Now, yeah, it probably WAS supposed to be "the Potara broke so the fusion failed", but I'm just saying that it's not absolutely, 100% definitive, so it's hard to argue one way or the other for sure.

Yeah, exactly. They left things ambiguous so they can continue to use whatever rules they want for Potara.

When's Heroes going to introduce the dance version of Kale + Caulifla? I guess it'd be...

Ka-ri-fu-ra
+
Ke-ru

Kariru?

Anyway, at least in the anime, I don't think -Sign- is supposed to be significantly stronger attack-wise than regular SSB, so I still don't see Goku beating Kefla 1v1 in a regular, non-tournament fight if he can't activate MUI.

Momomo
Dec 25, 2009

Dont judge me, I design your manhole


I figured the fusion broke because they used up all their time by expending so much energy, and the breaking of the earring was just a way of showing they were spent anyway. The blast Goku did was kind of weird since it seemed more like it just pushed her away instead of actually hurting her.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



I mean I know expecting consistency in Dragonball and all but Vegito's earings didn't break when he ran out of power. I don't think there's anything indicating they are one-use-only.

Momomo
Dec 25, 2009

Dont judge me, I design your manhole


I meant the blast broke them when they were in the middle of unfusing anyway.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Momomo posted:

I meant the blast broke them when they were in the middle of unfusing anyway.

No it doesn't.

Goku knocks Kefla off -> The earring shatters and then we see Kefka teleported back -> it's Caulifla and Kale who actually appear back in the stands.

Like there's absolutely no reason to assume that the earring being shattered isn't the reason for Kefla's defusing.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
how about we just not have the toilet cthulhu

It's because it looked dramatic.

Calaveron
Aug 7, 2006



The earring breaking was dramatic shorthand for Goku completely overwhelming and beating Kefla

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

The potara breaking isnít so dramatic considering Vegeta crunched one in his hand pretty easily.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


Kurui Reiten posted:

We see Goku Black's earring get cracked

I'm still mad nothing came of that.

Momomo
Dec 25, 2009

Dont judge me, I design your manhole


TheHan posted:

The potara breaking isn’t so dramatic considering Vegeta crunched one in his hand pretty easily.

It's symbolic in that both cases say fusion isn't an option for them anymore.

Course they got eliminated and it's technically a moot point, but the point was made that Goku soundly beat her.

lezard_valeth
Mar 14, 2016


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqJzR6rDBQM

This Fighterz Goku UI raid video popped in my recommended and at around the 16:40 mark it has a moment that is straight out of the anime like holy poo poo

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008




Gravy Boat 2k

lezard_valeth posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqJzR6rDBQM

This Fighterz Goku UI raid video popped in my recommended and at around the 16:40 mark it has a moment that is straight out of the anime like holy poo poo

jesus goddamn christ these dudes had me cracking up

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013


I had the wildest thought to beat Moro. What are the odds of Goku telling Vegeta to get on his shoulders? Goku will auto dodge everything Moro has, while Vegeta attacks.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Darth TNT posted:

I had the wildest thought to beat Moro. What are the odds of Goku telling Vegeta to get on his shoulders? Goku will auto dodge everything Moro has, while Vegeta attacks.

Vegeta tries to get on Goku's shoulders for their winning strategy, but Ultra Instinct considers it an attack so he instantly dodges Vegeta, causing him to fall on his rear end.

dr.acula
May 9, 2009



I'm surprised they didnt atleast try the Yakon strategy

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

Darth TNT posted:

I had the wildest thought to beat Moro. What are the odds of Goku telling Vegeta to get on his shoulders? Goku will auto dodge everything Moro has, while Vegeta attacks.

This but Goku has Vegeta in a little baby carrier.

Babe Magnet
Jun 1, 2008


MECHA-SHIVA

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
how about we just not have the toilet cthulhu

They probably would have legit tried that in Dragon Ball.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


dr.acula posted:

I'm surprised they didnt atleast try the Yakon strategy

Moro eats planets and seems to have no limit on how much he can consume. Or, at the very least, he's not as dumb as Yakon.

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

Babe Magnet posted:

MECHA-SHIVA

The Invincible Bota-Magetta

dr.acula
May 9, 2009



Blueberry Pancakes posted:

Moro eats planets and seems to have no limit on how much he can consume. Or, at the very least, he's not as dumb as Yakon.

Ah but Goku probably is, looking at the Goku vs. Super 17 fight.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


TheHan posted:

The Invincible Bota-Magetta



Why did they ever break this formation? It was actually working out really well for them.

dr.acula posted:

Ah but Goku probably is, looking at the Goku vs. Super 17 fight.

Possibly.

amigolupus
Aug 25, 2017

This is the dance
of our people



TheHan posted:

The Invincible Bota-Magetta



Wasn't Botamo supposed to be the one on the bottom, since he's the one who can absorb all physical damage?

Monaghan
Dec 29, 2006



amigolupus posted:

Wasn't Botamo supposed to be the one on the bottom, since he's the one who can absorb all physical damage?

No because bota can be thrown and dragged but if he's sitting on top of magetta he becomes a pair of industructable ear plugs. Magettas only weakness is hearing an insult

PaletteSwappedNinja
Jun 3, 2008

One Nation, Under God.

Blueberry Pancakes posted:

Why did they ever break this formation? It was actually working out really well for them.

They got separated when Kale went Broly and started nuking the arena, from memory.

biracial bear for uncut
Jun 9, 2009

ask me about being the most obnoxious person of all time

The series should have ended at the same point TFS stopped making parody episodes.

Kild
Apr 24, 2010


biracial bear for uncut posted:

The series should have ended at the same point TFS stopped making parody episodes.

nah

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


Gohan has never really ever been written as terribly interesting, and I can understand why Toriyama went back to Goku after a while of writing him.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta


Grimey Drawer

biracial bear for uncut posted:

The series should have ended at the same point TFS stopped making parody episodes.

No because that implies that the show should have ended before the Great Saiyaman arc, a.k.a. the best arc in the series.

Homora Gaykemi
Apr 30, 2020

"We live together in her Skull Cave. We cook each other dinner all the time. She gifted me this beautiful horse. Do you think I should ask her out?"*

*Ancient lesbo saying


Blueberry Pancakes posted:

Gohan has never really ever been written as terribly interesting, and I can understand why Toriyama went back to Goku after a while of writing him.

The Great Saiyaman rules and a character who doesn't really like fighting but has to to protect those close to him amongst a bunch of meatheads who just like punching for punching's sake is an interesting character, even if Toriyama doesn't really know how to let that drive his story

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

Also I'd rather not have the series end on Cell.

eonwe
Aug 11, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

I think having Cell be a part of the universal tournament would have been baller

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


Homora Gaykemi posted:

The Great Saiyaman rules and a character who doesn't really like fighting but has to to protect those close to him amongst a bunch of meatheads who just like punching for punching's sake is an interesting character, even if Toriyama doesn't really know how to let that drive his story

Okay, the Great Saiyaman is great, but I still stand by the notion that Toriyama (and Toei for that matter) not knowing what to do with Gohan has really dragged down his potential.

RBX
Jan 2, 2011



It should have been Resurrection C. Cell is back and the whole saga could involve Gohan having to beat him again and get over his inner feelings while Goku and Vegeta are training with Whis unaware. Then Blue could premier during the Universe 6 tourney. Then during the ToP Gohan wouldn't need to be rushed to be powerful again and then Frieza could be asked for help.

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

Security? Please escort the fan in section 106, row 16, seat 1 out of the building right now and bar him from coming here again!



Blueberry Pancakes posted:

Okay, the Great Saiyaman is great, but I still stand by the notion that Toriyama (and Toei for that matter) not knowing what to do with Gohan has really dragged down his potential.

i dunno, gohan was fine up until the end of the buu saga and then he stopped writing gohan that way. its not like tried to make gohan interesting and failed, he just stopped altogether

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
how about we just not have the toilet cthulhu

Eh, Cell is an idea that works fine exactly once. If you're going to retread that whole thing again, you might as well bring Android 21 into canon.

Homora Gaykemi
Apr 30, 2020

"We live together in her Skull Cave. We cook each other dinner all the time. She gifted me this beautiful horse. Do you think I should ask her out?"*

*Ancient lesbo saying


Ghost Leviathan posted:

you might as well bring Android 21 into canon.

a) if that means resurrecting my sweet son C16 as well then sure

b) all for it as long as she steps on my throat

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Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010


Look I don't care how you do it bring android 16 back. You can bullshit Bulma making a new version and recovering his brain chip or some poo poo.

Also yes canon 21 please

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