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CharlestheHammer posted:Kid trunks is a fail sons and goons don’t have that kind of cash kid trunks the don jr of dbz
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Jan 24, 2022 10:47
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 21:16 |
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I was trying to put my finger on what's wrong with this arc and I think I got it. Basically this feels like one of those silly side character fights in bleach that dragged the story out. The difference being that the characters in Bleach were at least quite interesting, usually with unique gimmicks other than "being the strongest", but also Bleach spent a good few years slowly introducing this silly number of secondary characters it had (at least until the end anyway). Here we have a guy who shows up out of nowhere vs another guy who's shown up out of nowhere. The fighting and art is kinda "whoosh whoosh, punch, kick, explosion" bland so why should we care about what happens. You'd have more engaging content in a side story where Chi Chi gets into a fight at a supermarket over the price of beans or some poo poo.
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Jan 24, 2022 10:51
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Kanos posted:Gohan kinda can't just not show up like Yamcha. Despite everything, his genetics and upbringing mean that even completely out of shape he's like, Earth's number four or five at the absolute worst(after Goku, Vegeta, and the androids), and the androids are mercurial and self-centered enough that they will literally say "everyone's going to die? so what, what's in it for me". If Freeza shows up or Goku gets everyone sucked into a multiverse death tournament he can't go "nah guys I've decided I'm not a fighter anymore sorry" because the failure state there is "everyone dies". Yeah, it's important to remember that Gohan at his absolute worst (Resurrection "F") was still significantly more powerful than the second-best fighter they had on Earth at the time (Piccolo), who himself was quite a bit better than the third (Krillin). And this was an incredibly rusty Gohan who couldn't even go past Super Saiyan and ended up burning himself out just to call his dad. Gohan is stuck in that awful place where everyone, including himself, is fully aware he's got untold potential that even surpasses Goku and Vegeta and will always be at worst the third-best fighter on Earth, a planet that is constantly in danger, but also he wants nothing to do with it and just wants to spend time with his family, his studies and his superhero gig. He takes a step back whenever Goku and Vegeta can take care of things, but otherwise he has no escape because otherwise everyone might die. At least, the Tournament of Power seems to have had an impact on him since he recovered his Ultimate Form and keeps up that level of power for Moro and Super Hero (despite using Super Saiyan again in it, one of his art pieces specifically calls him "Ultimate Gohan") so he now knows he must train because his life will never be as peaceful as he wants it to be. Goten and Trunks growing and taking his place would be useful, but also it's unlikely to happen because
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Jan 24, 2022 14:21
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Zedd posted:I take the downaged pilaf gang as still having their memories but very much having their emotional development being set back to being kids. I think it's more that it's not like they've ever really not been childish. Pilaf especially. Regaining their youth if anything seems to have given them a second opportunity to grow up. Also pretty funny that they're basically Bulma's housemates/live-in servants now. I'd say talk about keeping your enemies close, but well, Dragon Ball. Burkion posted:Oh Gero absolutely made their clothes Something something Hugo Boss. Funny that Gero is more attached to the Red Ribbon Army than its own original leader, but then I suppose it was basically what made his career.
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Jan 24, 2022 14:35
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 I had to see this on Reddit so the rest of you must also suffer.
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Jan 24, 2022 15:41
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remember when bulma had a crush on zarbon's first form
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Jan 24, 2022 15:45
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I think people underrate Gohan's arc through Super so far, in large part because they get so fixated on how scrawny he was when Frieza showed up again and think its 'ruining' the character where everybody is thinking about his fight with Cell. The whole idea as far as I can see it is that after the Buu saga he was finally free to live his life as his own man, in almost the entire series previous to that he was basically fighting on the prompting of Piccolo and Goku, his father and 'father' respectively, and if it wasn't for that parental push and lingering sense of duty towards Piccolo especially he wouldn't have gotten caught up in all this insanity. Like he basically had no choice when Piccolo kidnapped him or when Goku told him to fight Cell. His arc in the Buu sage is kind of a mess that didn't really have a satisfying payoff, especially with the way that he was kept away from a ton of the action and then got a random power up for no effort on his part and then threw it away against Super Buu. Thinking back its a big problem how passive he is through most of it, like even with the World Tournament he only joins because Videl forces him to do so, but it came together a bit more with the fact that he had his new family with Videl and later Pan. So for the first part of Super he just puts all that fighting behind him and becomes a nerd dad like he probably always really wanted to be, which of course is the source of maximum consternation with the fanbase but I think is true to the nature of his character, especially since he likely assumes that he can just leave all the lasers and powerups to Goku and Vegeta. But then Frieza comes back and it lays bare how weak he's gotten and how helpless he is to protect everybody he loves, Piccolo, Pan, Videl, Goten and Chi-Chi are all killed with his full knowledge and its only thanks to Whis's plot reset button power that it gets undone. I know Resurrection F is in the running for one of the worst Arcs in DB's history but it actually has a pretty big impact on Gohan in hammering home how quickly everything he loves can be snatched away just like that. Then with the Future Trunks arc they have a good little thing going on where Trunks goes to see Gohan, is glad to see that his former mentor is living the happy life he always really wanted and decides not to burst his bubble by telling him about the horrible nightmare that going down in his timeline. Gohan later on finds out the truth and it dawns on him just how horrendous things are for Trunks while he's being doing this dorky dad act in comparison, and how he was cut out of the loop because people didn't want to bring that darkness into his life when he was likely not really strong enough to help much anyway. So by the time of the Tournament of Power he's started to really internalize the fact that he's his own man at this point in his life but now has a greater sense of purpose in training to defend his new family and stepping up to that responsibility as a father. He doesn't want to be in a situation again like when Frieza killed Piccolo in front of him or when Trunks shied away from involving him in his affairs. He doesn't need Goku or Piccolo on his rear end getting him to train, he's doing it now out of his own volition and approaches both of his father figures in his life increasingly as equals. Hopefully this gets pushed further with the Super Hero movie.
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Jan 24, 2022 15:51
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New Leaf posted:
where the gently caress is goku in this pic
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Jan 24, 2022 16:07
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Kild posted:where the gently caress is goku in this pic Apparently it's coming in a follow-up pic..
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Jan 24, 2022 16:31
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Blaze Dragon posted:Goten and Trunks growing and taking his place would be useful, but also it's unlikely to happen because Ehhh, I don't know about that. Gohan was never a fight-loving idiot, he was pretty much drafted into the punchmonkey wars from the word go and dragged along kicking and screaming the entire time. He's never really shown ever enjoying himself in a fight except for the times he snaps and goes psycho sadist Gohan like he did against Cell. Like I can't think of a time that Kid Gohan ever enjoyed himself and wanted to show off in a fight like Goten and Trunks do basically all the time. Hell, we even have an offscreen arc in Super where Goten and Trunks are left alone to guard an island against dangerous poachers during the ToP and seemingly have a boatload of fun beating the poo poo out of them. Goten and Trunks in general both seem pretty eager to emulate their dads.
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Jan 24, 2022 16:52
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Considering their fathers, bloodline, superhuman abilities and accessibility, the population of DB Earth are lucky that Gohan, Goten and Trunks aren't nihilistic, murderous, rapey bullies. Just being carefree and funloving dorks or studious nerds is the best case scenario. Gohan especially, by the age of 4 he's kidnapped, watches his uncle brutalize his father and Goku, is forced to unleash an emotionally charged attack and ends up with Goku's death. And he doesn't even get to see his mom afterwards, just gets whisked away to survive in the wild on his own. Not even going to bother retreading all the poo poo on Namek and the Cell Games. Yeah I get why he doesn't like fighting. Gohan's a drat saint, all things considered. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 24, 2022 17:38
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Did we really need to go there?
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Jan 24, 2022 17:41
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Come on man
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Jan 24, 2022 17:42
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New Leaf posted:
Of all the things, I'm getting Kid Chameleon vibes for some reason
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Jan 24, 2022 17:47
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I like the tired old 'Piccolo is his dad' gag immediately followed by tip-toeing around the fact that means his dad whisked him away to almost die in the wilderness
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Jan 24, 2022 17:47
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Justin_Brett posted:I like the tired old 'Piccolo is his dad' gag immediately followed by tip-toeing around the fact that means his dad whisked him away to almost die in the wilderness Piccolo only did what was best for his son. Plus, really, “abducted a four year old to make him strong enough to fight killer aliens cause yes our options are THAT bad” still pales in comparison to the whole Cell thing, so it’s not really shocking it gets glossed over.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:26
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Piccolo only became his dad through the kidnapping and child abuse though, when he took him it was as little more than a slave
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Jan 24, 2022 18:28
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It was also literally the first thing Piccolo did, he didn't become Gohan's real daddy until they trained together.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:29
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Blaze Dragon posted:Goten and Trunks growing and taking his place would be useful, but also it's unlikely to happen because Hey now, we might finally see something new design wise out of superhero, god willing.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:34
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Also Piccolo was still coming off of the villain juice, it took taking care of Gohan to realize there are more important things in life than being the demon king.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:39
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Kanos posted:Ehhh, I don't know about that. Gohan was never a fight-loving idiot, he was pretty much drafted into the punchmonkey wars from the word go and dragged along kicking and screaming the entire time. He's never really shown ever enjoying himself in a fight except for the times he snaps and goes psycho sadist Gohan like he did against Cell. Like I can't think of a time that Kid Gohan ever enjoyed himself and wanted to show off in a fight like Goten and Trunks do basically all the time. Hell, we even have an offscreen arc in Super where Goten and Trunks are left alone to guard an island against dangerous poachers during the ToP and seemingly have a boatload of fun beating the poo poo out of them. I think it helps that Goten and Trunks A: have a peer they can relate to, and 2: are eased a bit more into the lifestyle than Gohan being more or less literally thrown into it. They perform so badly against Buu as Gotenks not because they're weak or unwilling to fight but because they're genuinely unused to the stakes involved, and are also literal children. Basically on the other end of Gohan- who was basically either paralysed with fear, going berserker rage or trying to make the best of a bad situation, while Goten, Trunks, and especially Gotenks see fighting as a fun game and have a lot of trouble breaking out of that mindset.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:47
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So here's Goku as a father. Pros: Raises Gohan from birth to at least eleven years of age before dying, continually puts Gohan's safety before enjoyment of a fight to the point of breaking a promise to Nappa that he wouldn't use the Kaioken on him, always immediately tries to remove Gohan from the battlefield whenever possible, spends time with Gohan even when training after he comes back to life, has a good relationship with Gohan upon returning back to life, encourages his son even despite him getting weaker by saying that no one can beat him when he puts his mind to it, etc. Cons: Retroactively wasn't there when Gohan was born due to interviews, misjudged how Gohan viewed fighting while trying to demonstrate his faith in Gohan to Cell, chooses to stay away from home for a year after Frieza and longer still after dying to Cell I'd say the pros outweigh the cons. Honestly, Super has done more to diminish the image of Goku as a father than the Z-era.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:57
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Goku and Piccolo both TRIED to get their drivers licenses. Is Vegeta out here trying to get his license because his wife forced him to do so? Didn't think so. Clearly Goku and Piccolo combined are the ultimate dad.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:10
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timeline where the potara are still for keeps and it ended up being Goku and Piccolo fusing to take down Buu, and Piku did the job admirably and went on to be the Best Dad and probably a terrifyingly powerful fighter when you consider the bullshit that is Saiyan+Namekian
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Jan 24, 2022 19:15
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Kild posted:where the gently caress is goku in this pic And Bulma
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Jan 24, 2022 19:23
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Piku Goccolo Kajunior Makarot So many good names gone unused
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Jan 24, 2022 19:25
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Captain Baal posted:Goku and Piccolo both TRIED to get their drivers licenses. Is Vegeta out here trying to get his license because his wife forced him to do so? Didn't think so. Clearly Goku and Piccolo combined are the ultimate dad. Vegeta just drives without a license, Bulma too.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:38
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Last Celebration posted:Piccolo only did what was best for his son. Plus, really, “abducted a four year old to make him strong enough to fight killer aliens cause yes our options are THAT bad” still pales in comparison to the whole Cell thing, so it’s not really shocking it gets glossed over. As the father of a 5 year old, holy loving poo poo, looking back at that whole arc is insane. A 5 year old against a wall of muscle like Nappa? I mean yeah, Saiyan DNA, but still..
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Jan 24, 2022 19:42
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There really is never again going to be a way to sincerely sell the gravity of the stakes that never stopped escalating from the time of the Piccolo vs Goku Saga up through to the end of the Namek Saga.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:45
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Momomo posted:Vegeta just drives without a license, Bulma too. Who can actually stop them? Krillin???
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Jan 24, 2022 19:54
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The Tournament of Power had some of its own great magic when you shave down and combine the best of the Anime + Manga versions, but nothing quite like deathmarch of defeating Vegeta and then the brute suicide of Frieza. My one wish is a retake on that NES game that let you really what-if around with the Saiyan -> Namek Saga. Let me take everyone alive to Namek. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPcVrMx5PVM&t=2470s
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Jan 24, 2022 20:00
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Bulma also doesn't pay taxes. Neither does Vegeta. This has nothing to do with Vegeta being a demi-God, that's just normal for rich people and major corporations.
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Jan 24, 2022 21:05
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New Leaf posted:
yajirobe ftw
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Jan 24, 2022 21:27
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Black August posted:The Tournament of Power had some of its own great magic when you shave down and combine the best of the Anime + Manga versions, but nothing quite like deathmarch of defeating Vegeta and then the brute suicide of Frieza. I wish Kakarot was this instead of an unchanged adaptation of the series. It'd be more fun and your characters that aren't Goku, Vegeta and Gohan wouldn't lag behind so horribly in level (I got to the postgame today and it sure feels great to have all of my party except those three be 30 levels behind...) Covok posted:Bulma also doesn't pay taxes. Neither does Vegeta. This has nothing to do with Vegeta being a demi-God, that's just normal for rich people and major corporations. Vegeta doesn't own anything so I'm not sure what you could tax him for. Everything he uses is owned by his wife. Bulma...well, she's the richest person in the world. Good luck getting her to follow any law. No dog's ruling over her.
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Jan 24, 2022 21:54
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Vegeta and Bulma's tax obligations are covered by helping save the world every now and again. Of course, as one would expect, they are far less effective at doing so than the put upon working stiff hero that is Goku.
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Jan 24, 2022 21:56
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Blaze Dragon posted:I wish Kakarot was this instead of an unchanged adaptation of the series. It'd be more fun and your characters that aren't Goku, Vegeta and Gohan wouldn't lag behind so horribly in level (I got to the postgame today and it sure feels great to have all of my party except those three be 30 levels behind...) Bulma’s family invented the capsules that nearly the entire world uses, President Dog has basically been a figurehead from the very beginning.
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Jan 24, 2022 22:02
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New Leaf posted:
this owns though?
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Jan 24, 2022 22:24
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khwarezm posted:Vegeta and Bulma's tax obligations are covered by helping save the world every now and again. Bulma invented the Dragon Radar that gets large segments of the population wished back regularly, at least. And Vegeta is foreign royalty, he's got the ultimate tax dodge. Captain Baal posted:Piku If Goku and Superman fused, what would their name me? Son Clarku Kent? Kalkarot-El? Oddly enough I reckon a confusing but fitting name might be Super Goku.
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Jan 25, 2022 08:02
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Bulma invented the Dragon Radar that gets large segments of the population wished back regularly, at least. Gokuman.
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Jan 25, 2022 08:47
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close, but its Gokuperman. then the other fusion method is Kark Kentarot
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Jan 25, 2022 09:44
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