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Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012


Making a gif of Broly managing to somehow throw a beam is the best idea I've heard this week, so I'm glad someone went for it.

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Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

If Dragon Ball Super was around ten years ago, Android 17 probably would have ended up being one of my favorite characters like, in general. Honestly, I wish DBS was around that long ago for a lot of reasons. Younger obsessed-with-dragon-ball me deserved something like Super. Now that I'm a cynical adult watching a children's cartoon, it's just not the same.

Android 17 is still cool, though.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

a cartoon duck posted:

It looks like the same pose as the 18/17 team attack, so maybe that's an alternate version of that combo if you put Krillin in 18's team.

Yeah the same thing could happen in Budokai 3 in her ultimate -if you use it like four times in a row krillin shows up instead of 17

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

Raxivace posted:

If Something Awful were a Dragon Ball universe what would its Mortal Level be?

It'd be erased before the tournament even began.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

Jiren is so over-the-top serious that I'm convinced he's going to have a complete personality 180 when he finally starts fighting and go full Ginyu Force/Great Saiyaman (or something else wacky). That's pretty much the Dragon Ball approach to comedy, after all.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

Maybe guns got better. It's been like thirty years, after all. I'm pretty sure that's how guns work.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

I feel like Vegeta would at least fight teletubby-girl-whose-name-I-forget before getting eliminated since it's featured so prominently in the opening, and the opening probably has more weight than the ending credits.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

I'm pretty sure the deal with Namekians and food is supposed to be that they CAN eat but can survive with just water if they choose. Since Namekian society is really chill and probably not too big on unnecessary waste, people on Namek probably subsist on only water by default for that reason.

Namek didn't seem to have good food potential, anyway. Unless nebulously canon giant crabs taste any good.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

I'll admit a lot of the super characters wouldn't be super interesting, but I really want them to put in some variation of Zamasu, whether it be immortal Zamasu, Goku Black, fused Zamasu, or hell even spooky cloudgas Zamasu.

Edit: I was not at all paying attention to what thread I was currently in so I assumed the conversation was about Figherz, please forgive my sudden accidental change in topic.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

I hope Vegeta gets owned because that sets him up for a "real" victory or cool moment in the future. He's still depicted front-and-center right next to Goku in DB promotional stuff, after all - they have to throw him a bone eventually. It just seems very unlikely that bone is coming this arc.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

You guys are probably right but I'd like to believe you aren't. Let me have this.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

ImpAtom posted:

It's true, the coolest character was the one whose motivation was literally "a baby cried too much next to me when I was a baby." Why can't characters have that kind of deep and detailed writing now?

When I first got into DBZ like a decade or so ago, I didn't watch any of the movies or anime - both were no longer being broadcast with any regularity as far as I could tell - so my exposure to movie characters like Broly and all the filler anime stuff was purely through the video games. I thought Broly looked super cool because I was 12, but when I found out his motivation was revenge for having to listen to Goku cry, I thought that was brilliant. Why, building up a super tough overpowered villain like that and then giving him the most pathetic and silly motivation possible was Akira Toriyama as hell! Surely the movie was fantastic!

Anyway long story short many years later I finally saw, the movie, and they kept trying to play Broly straight even after the reveal, and it was bad and dumb. The lesson I've learned over the years is that all the anime, movie, and GT characters sound super awesome if you haven't actually seen any of that stuff, and I was a very lucky kid to be operating under the misguided assumption that the movie villains were cool for so long.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

TheKingofSprings posted:

Then he did a poo poo job because Goku never hit Chi-chi

The Toei filler where he sends her through the house with a backpat doesn't count

No that was in the manga. It was like two panels though, which means that Toei probably made a couple full episodes out of it. Full disclosure I haven't actually watched more than three episodes of the DBZ anime (all of them were Goku charging a spirit bomb).

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

Reiche posted:

So did those 3 just forget they were ever old in the first place?

It seems like Pilaf is the only one who remembers/cares on a consistent basis so maybe that's an actual plot point. Maybe being wished young messes with your memory -
it did make them children mentally, after all.

Or, more likely, the writers just don't really think about it.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

I won’t be too upset if they don’t do buu saga - I just want to see them do the other movies. There’s a lot of potential left in those.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

Controversial opinion - if you read the manga you don’t necessarily need to watch the anime. The manga is paced a lot better and Toriyama is very good at drawing action. I believe Super takes the manga as canon, too.

That being said I grew up with the manga rather than the anime so maybe I’m biased (they got the volumes at my library, and I borrowed them all because I was a massively nerdy kid.)

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

JoeGlassJAw posted:

I think the consensus is that the Super anime is canon as opposed to the manga. Less/nonexistent supervision by Toriyama for the manga than the show.

Oh, sorry, I meant that Super takes the DBZ manga as canon, not that the Super manga is canon. The anime is way better than the manga for Super.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

I remember LittleKuriboh’s Naruto Abridged “fan-based parody of a fan-based parody” being pretty good but it’s been a LONG time since I’ve watched it - no idea if it holds up. I like the idea of a series just directly making fun of Naruto Abridged, though.

Naruto itself holds up really poorly and even as a kid I couldn’t make it through more than like five episodes of the famous “100 straight episodes of filler” section (though I was a pretty big fan before that, being a dumb kid and all). Dbz holds up way better in comparison, but I don’t think that’s really surprising considering how it managed to stay so relevant for decades.

Edit: okay, well, the original anime itself aged pretty poorly, but you get what I mean

Zinkraptor fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Nov 7, 2018

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

Improbable Lobster posted:

Sometimes but the only examples I can think of are people like Martin Luther King Jr who were named after famous people they weren't related to.

Martin Luther King Jr. was the son of Martin Luther King Sr, so that's a direct father-son relationship. Generally Jr. is not used if a generation is skipped, but the rules for this sort of thing are somewhat poorly defined.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

I was late for the movie because of some bullshit and got in literally just as the last trailer ended so I'm pretty sure I'm the real winner here.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

I think it’s worth keeping in mind that weird gimmicks and powers really haven’t been all that prevalent in DB after Vegeta appears, except when they are used in order to facilitate punching better. Buu had weird powers, but most were basically just fancy ways to do violence to people. Now all of a sudden, they’re up against a villain who is almost entirely tricks and weird spells, and he’s kicking their asses. In addition, people much weaker than Vegeta are able to hold their own though similar means, and Buu (oh, I’m sorry, “Boo”) is stranger than ever. The fact that Vegeta has prioritized raw strength over all else means he’s suddenly at a huge disadvantage. While Vegeta is frequently behind Goku on the power scale (and not as much as of Super, barring things like Ultra Instinct), his issue is usually that he’s not doing what they both do good enough. Now all of a sudden everyone’s playing a different game, and he’s left completely unprepared. Vegeta’s had a lot of character development, but it still makes sense for him to be really frustrated by this development.

Now we just have to see if he decides to double-down on “strength over all else” or actually decides to diversify a bit. It’d be really strange for Vegeta to learn instant-transmission when it was Goku’s thing for so long, but it was already pretty weird that nobody else wanted to learn it so maybe it’s about time.

(Alternatively I might just be putting too much thought into this when consistent character development isn’t really a priority in DB, but that’s no fun, is it?)

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

Yeah but that’s mostly through clever use of powering up and is still mostly used to punch better/more efficiently. It’s not really the same type of thing as teleportation or outright magic.

I think maybe the implication is that he sees the techniques themselves as the problem, rather than the usage? I’ll be honest, there doesn’t seem to be a perfect way to make it all fit, but I think this is the intention

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

I hope we get a flashback to the Bojack stuff at some point and it’s just five-ten seconds of over-the-top pirate impressions, and then it’s never mentioned again.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

A big thing about DBZ's relationship stuff is how much of it is off-screen. Think about how often Vegeta and Bulma actually interact in DBZ - in Super they spend a lot of time together, but before that we basically just have to take characters' at their word or make assumptions based on their current situation. This actually works to its benefit - DBZ was a weekly punchfight manga, and the tone/content makes it very difficult to include real relationship building in a way that doesn't interfere with the pacing. In an anime, dedicating an episode to goofier low-key stuff isn't that big a deal, but in a manga a LOT less ground is covered per week, so it's a lot more important to consider priorities. This ALSO has the advantage of letting the reader make assumptions about the relationship and how it progressed rather than simply have it described or shown to them - which might help quite a bit, since what the reader makes up is probably something they like a lot more than what would be shown. Obviously, this is an absolutely terrible way to write a story where such relationships are more important to the plot, but in a story like DBZ where they mostly exist to facilitate some superpowered action punchfights, it ends up working out okay.

Dragon Ball Super, on the other hand, makes these relationships much more relevant and thus dedicates more screentime to it, and I think it does a surprisingly okay job (the anime, at least. I didn't start reading the manga before Moro and while I like that arc so far I head it was pretty bad before that).

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

Some Numbers posted:

When Freeza destroyed Vegeta, Bardock got sent back in time to a time when Vegeta was still called Plant, encountered proto-Saiyans (that don't look anything like Saiyans), fought Freeza's ancestor Chilled and became the first Super Saiyan.

Them being proto-saiyans was a DBZA joke. It takes place on planet Plant/Vegeta, which was conquered by Saiyans and wasn't their native planet. Episode of Bardock is insanely dumb, but it's not that dumb, sadly.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

I like to imagine they were still around on the planet when the Saiyans attack (sorta like how DB Earth still occasionally has animal people and such) and were very confused when people fitting the description of their legendary savior from so many years ago just show up and murder them all.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

Goku = Homestar, Vegeta = Strong Bad.

Note the dynamic between Goku and Vegeta is very different in Super than it is in Z. In Z Vegeta mostly just gets mad about how much weaker he is and then it’s revealed that Goku was twenty steps ahead the whole time (Vegeta was not anywhere near Goku’s level in Buu saga). In Super, however, they’re treated as being about equal most of the time, except when Goku pulls off temporary nonsense like Ultra Instinct - Goku is still ahead much of the time, but not nearly to the same extent. (I really like that Vegeta managed to catch up to Goku only after he chilled out and admitted Goku was his friend, and even started working with him for mutual improvement, but I digress). So that affects the dynamic a lot.

Basically what I’m getting at is, Vegeta is Wario only in Z, and Luigi in Super.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

Calaveron posted:

So like Vegeta was almost neck in neck with Goku before his yard rat training and now the chains have come off and he will now be considerably stronger or will Goku show up, be impressed at Vegeta's new strength and then go all oh hey I spent months training with an angel one on one so I’m still stronger than you

The general status quo of Super has been "Vegeta and Goku are about equal", but the reason for this is so that when Vegeta loses every major fight the audience will say "Oh no! How will Goku win if badguy could beat Vegeta so easily?????" except it happens literally every time.

I don't expect this to change.

Edit: Maybe they're setting up something that'll let Vegeta get closer to UI level sometimes, since that's the biggest power imbalance between them since Super started (depending how you view SSBKK, which I think was a Toei thing? It didn't seem to really be treated as a major power boost after its first appearance, but that's every transformation).

Zinkraptor fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jan 12, 2020

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

multijoe posted:

I don't know why they've retconned Hakai to cause huge explosions now when every depiction of it to date has just erased things from existence

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I think the reason is that they need it to work in such a way that it can be used offensively without just directly erasing the opponent and instantly winning.

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

khwarezm posted:

It might be filler but in the Buu saga when Dabura turns him into stone Trunks accidentally shatters his statue and straight up thinks he killed him. Then Piccolo shows up and says something about about how he's able to regen so long as his head isn't damaged.

Its heavily implied that Trunks sees a pile of gore from the broken pieces as well.

It’s not filler, I remember that part and I’ve only read the manga.

Namekian regeneration is one of those things that seemed to inexplicably get a lot more powerful as the series went on so like many things in Dragon Ball it’s probably better not to think about it too hard.

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Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

Goku could beat comic strip popeye but definitely not animated popeye. That is my official goku vs popeye tier list.

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