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Blaze Dragon posted:"Rumours" is a very weird word to use for something that's already been confirmed, that has appeared in two images and now in a video. As unlikely as it is, I'm still wishing that this is a fake-out somehow and Gohan's the one getting this new power-up. It just bugs me that despite being the cause of this mess in the first place, not only is Goku being rewarded with all the fights he wants, he also a brand new power-up. To use the midlife crisis analogy mentioned before, this is like Goku screwing things up financially for his family and friends to purchase a sports car so that he could go on a road rage. Only he's awarded with a brand new car for doing that, while the news tells everyone what he did was fine since the people he ran over were going to die of old age anyway, and isn't it cool how he sent them flying?
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Aug 28, 2017 06:12
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RealFoxy posted:Is there any particular reason why Gohan is such a fan favorite? He had two chances, almost blew one, and certainly blew the other. I'm a fan of how Gohan has turned out, and it's because Dragon Ball has a long history behind it. To get into it, all kid Gohan wanted was just to study and make his mom proud. Yet he's always been forced into life-and-death situations. He'd been beaten to within an inch of his life, actually died himself, saw his dad and his friends get hurt fighting, and deal with his friends and loved ones being killed by monstrous forces. Adding to that, Goku, the man Gohan has always looked up to, had either fundamentally misunderstood him (Cell), and abandoned him, either unwillingly (Raditz) or willingly (again, Cell). He then had to tell Chichi that Goku's not coming back, and help her raise Goten. And yet despite all these traumatic experiences, Gohan somehow manages to be a well-adjusted person. It's no small miracle, and we have Chi-Chi and Piccolo to thank for being there for him. Now, Gohan has a loving family, a supportive network of friends, and even a start in a career he loves. He's married to one of the richest and most beloved families in the world, he's got a movie made based on his heroic alterego, and, if we include DB Online lore, he's going to unravel the mysteries of ki that will revolutionize the world. I'm looking forward how they'll incorporate Gohan's desire to be strong to him being a family man in the future. I like Gohan because he's proof that just because you had a crummy childhood or terrible experiences growing up, it doesn't mean you have to let it define you or drag you down, that you can move on and be better off for it. It's a very nice message for a kids show, I feel. 
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Aug 28, 2017 07:31
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Stallion Cabana posted:tbh the last few episodes have made me lose hope in Jiren being worth anything Same. The only way Jiren would be interesting now is if it turns out that the reason he's not actively seeking out fights this entire time is because he doesn't want to help eliminate other universes in the first place. Go all in the Superman analogy and have him be this friendly, reasonable guy who inspires hope in others.
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Aug 28, 2017 19:34
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Kashuno posted:His attitude is clearly not this though. Yeah, it's just so disappointing, especially from a universe that's sentai/Justice League-themed.  Glagha posted:Actual question: Has Jiren even spoke yet? His MO seems to be eternally staring silently at the poo poo going on and only occasionally stepping in to do one move to show he's a badass before going back to doing nothing. He told Goku to get lost when he came over to taunt the Pride Troopers. Which is pretty boring in comparison to Caulifla trashtalking the U7 Saiyans.
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Aug 28, 2017 19:43
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OB_Juan posted:An amazing end to the arc. Just Beerus' reaction...  Glagha posted:It's funny how much they've tried to walk it back and say "N-no, Goku didn't doom trillions of people! They were gonna delete some universes anyway, Goku just prompted them to make the decision via tournament instead of randomly!" but Goku still looks like kind of a bastard right now. Was there a ton of backlash in the Japanese boards when it was revealed the losers would have their universe deleted? It makes me wonder if the writers were gauging the fan reactions and panicked that Goku is being considered the bad guy, so they hastily tried to walk it back.
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Aug 28, 2017 19:59
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Kashuno posted:Goku barely gave a poo poo that it was almost his fault entirely that Zamasu went off the deep end and literally destroyed all the universes before having Zeno come and blow that one up too. Guy just doesn't care if he gets a good brawl out of it. It's really weird to me that Goku never got called out on his role in that despite the arc being good about pointing out other parties and their share of the blame (Bulma for inventing time travel, Trunks being the one who created the alternate timeline, Gowasu for failing as a mentor to Zamasu, Zamasu being so judgmental of mortals). It's just much worse now because there have been a lot of points where Goku should've been called out on his actions, but doesn't. Like when the U7 crew found out the universes would be erased, they're only mad at Goku for not telling them the truth about what's at stake. There's no mention of him being the cause of it, as if Gohan or Whis forgot to tell the others that one key detail. And while I know that the rest of the universes teaming up to take out U7 would make for a shorter story, I still find it weird how Toppo conveniently drops his grudge against Goku, or that Bergamo doesn't immediately shout to everyone about Goku's role in this mess. Like he pretty much challenged all the gods to send all their best fighters right at him.
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Aug 28, 2017 21:41
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Stallion Cabana posted:It seems to be, and to be honest it's completely fair that they thought that, that they weren't expecting people not in Goku's universe to jump to his defense. I'd say the blame is on Kahseral for that. Toppo literally ordered him to lead the others to take down only Goku. Kahseral could've ordered Dimensional Dame to keep up the barrier so no one can interfere. And once Graviton Guy pins down Goku, Tornado Tot could've easily sent him flying. He thought it was a good chance to eliminate more people, so he disobeyed orders and paid for it. It's actually neat that we're shown Kahseral had always thought his way was always better right from the start. When Toppo had summoned him for a team meeting to discuss the tournament, Kahseral completely blew them off because he felt he just had to take be super careful to save a couple kids' pet. Like I have to imagine Toppo had to waste their precious time just tracking Kahseral down since he turned off his communicator.
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Aug 28, 2017 22:29
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Raxivace posted:If Something Awful were a Dragon Ball universe what would its Mortal Level be? It'd be way higher than the Kanzenshuu forum, that's for sure
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Aug 28, 2017 22:33
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Glagha posted:Shocker that the universe that has a lazy, petulant god of destruction that blows planets up essentially at random is ranked pretty low. Have they ever mentioned U6's mortal level? It'd be kind of hilarious if it turns out they've right up there with U11 in terms of mortal level.
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Aug 28, 2017 23:01
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Manatee Cannon posted:they said it's directly above u7 iirc That's messed up. Champa and his vuvuzela deserve a higher ranking than that.
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Aug 28, 2017 23:17
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TFRazorsaw posted:would YOU wanna talk to them Covok posted:I mean, in fairness, what did Goku do there? He went to investigate when an evil verison of himself showed up to fight and decided to do a friendly boxing match with an arrogant putz. The fact that putz took this as a sign to end all life in the multiverse is hard to pin on Goku. It was a big overreaction. It's been a while since I saw the episode, but IIRC, Beerus and Whis were headed to U10 to poke around and see if there's a god there with a similar ki to Black's. Goku heard there was someone strong there he immediately pestered Beerus to take him along until he gave in. Beerus and Whis ordered him to keep quiet and behave himself, but not only did Goku casually mingling with the gods gave Zamasu a bad first impression, him asking for a spar showed Zamasu that there are mortals who have powers to rival the gods. It might not seem much, but it really colored Zamasu's perception of mortals, as seen when he wished to switch bodies with Goku. I mean, yeah, Beerus and Whis were also partly responsible for bringing Goku with them, but Goku really had no business going with them at that point.
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Aug 29, 2017 02:08
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IcePhoenix posted:Whis is on the "Goku gave the other universes a fighting chance" side. He mentions it at some point in the tournament when Beerus is complaining about u7 getting ganged up on. I just thought it was Whis being Whis, and he's more chill about it since his existence isn't on the line. Maybe he let the detail slip because he didn't want there to be any more last minute fighting?  Kashuno posted:I hope after the ToP that we get an arc more focused on goten and lil trunks. It's about time for them to really start getting involved. Goten especially. How old are Trunks, Goten and Maron supposed to be again? Maybe if they get an arc, they'll finally update their character designs to look like teens. Kild posted:Well, that only happened because Trunks hosed with time which caused some loving causality poo poo in which there shouldn't be a Goku Black unless Trunks came back and started it all. And Trunks did get called out on that being his fault later on. Thinking back on it, my problem with Goku in that scene is more how he butted in matters that only concerned the gods.
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Aug 29, 2017 04:26
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Blaze Dragon posted:See, this argument would work except: I like Bergamo. Despite being from the lovely universe, he was the only one who showed any concern over the other universes being erased and did something about it. Guy risked being erased on the spot just by asking the Zenos not to go through with erasing the universes. Justin_Brett posted:I mean you really don't think the Grand Priest would have noticed if Goku had sandbagged there? He's clearly all for the tournament, doing that just sounds like a good way to annoy him, and possibly Zeno as well. My problem with that scene is more with the fact that when the Grand Priest told him he can't hold back, Goku says he shouldn't worry since he had no intention of taking it easy in the first place. Like that is a very callous way of thinking no matter how you slice it.
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Aug 31, 2017 06:31
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Genocyber posted:I'm a bit late to the villain chat but this point here is why I really like Black and Zamasu as a villain pair, even if as individuals they're a bit bland. Teamwork is something you rarely see period in Dragon Ball, let alone the villains doing it. Basically: A little late as well, but one aspect I really liked about Zamasu was how he started out weak and had to be sneaky and underhanded to get his objectives done like Imperfect Cell. And that he used the things the protagonists did against them like using the Dragon Balls, Zenkai boosts, bullshit new forms and even fusion. I wonder if they can add Bulma as a playable character? Give her a jetpack to jump and fly around, have her summon Trunks, Goten and maybe the Pilaf crew for her attacks and supers. And if she gets knocked out and you have Vegeta in your team, he'd go Super Saiyan MY BULMA.
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Sep 1, 2017 06:20
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Huh, that was a weird episode. The early part seemed like it set up Gohan and Piccolo taking down the snipers together, except Tien rings out alongside the sniper and Goku and Vegeta were the ones to take care of his helper. While I liked that they actually worked together as a team this time, it kind of make Gohan look like a complete chump in the process. Piccolo's the one who took the hits Gohan should've dodged, as well as the one to have the idea to use smokescreen and to heat up the rubble with their ki to confuse the snipers. They don't even get to be the ones to track the snipers' positions either. Between this and how Gohan dealt with Botamo and that guy from U10, I'm getting some mixed messages on Toei' plan to make him relevant.
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Sep 3, 2017 06:32
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There's basically no way it's happening, but it'd be hilarious if Goku was the one who got knocked out next because he kept using up his stamina like a complete idiot. Having Vegeta and the rest desperately take up the slack while Goku can only helplessly watch would at least have some tension to it.
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Sep 5, 2017 15:08
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I feel those leaks might be fake, considering the mention of the Genki-dama. Like this is the universe of the void, and there aren't many people around, so how can Goku even collect enough life energy to make that attack worth anything? My guess is that Goku will get the Zenos, Beerus and Whis to raise their arms, get some god ki and absorb it to get his new form.
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Sep 6, 2017 04:11
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Darko posted:Herms is one of the most reliable sources about these things. Oh, I thought it was fake since his tweet mentioned he got it from a guy posting in 2chan. But then- IcePhoenix posted:They're confirmed now, too. bye Vegeta -this happened. So yeah, this sucks.
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Sep 6, 2017 14:28
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Blaze Dragon posted:Also I find the earlier argument funny due to the Spirit Bomb coming up, because nearly the same debate happens in-universe in Online's backstory. Seeing the Super Spirit Bomb that destroyed Buu makes Krillin and Tenshinhan reach two completely different conclusions. Krillin finds that a single person's power is not what matters, and that by working together, even a bunch of weaklings can surpass the strongest. Meanwhile, Tenshinhan reaches the conclusion that unleashing a ridiculous amount of Ki in one, decisive blow is the key to any victory, self-preservation be damned. This leads to the creations of the New Turtle and Crane Schools. These actually sound like cool and interesting takes on the Spirit Bomb. How do they handle the skills for these schools in-game? Kashuno posted:I am making a very real guess the next arc skips a few years and focuses on Uub The ToP has to end with Goku getting the Son Wukong treatment just to be extra sure this won't turn into another GT.
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Sep 8, 2017 06:32
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Kashuno posted:Uub is obviously going to be an exception, because Goku had a ton of respect for kid buu's power level and wants to see what it could become if given time to grow. I wouldn't be surprised if Goku thinks Uub will surpass him. I'm wondering, but would Goku even be a good teacher? I know he and Gohan trained together, but Gohan already had a solid grasp of martial arts thanks to Piccolo. I'm talking more if Goku has what it takes to train a complete rookie like kid Uub from scratch. Kashuno posted:The next turtle hermit is going to be Yamcha - Everyone is stronger than him - Has his own talking animal companion - Has terrible luck with women Yeah, it checks out.
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Sep 8, 2017 13:40
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Kashuno posted:Goku's problem with training people is that he gets way too bored too quickly. Uub is someone that he actually sees potential in that he can train uninterrupted (unlike Gohan who always had ChiChi getting involved). Uub won't be an especially good fighter by training with Goku (Goku isn't especially good at fighting, he's just good at being the strongest dude in a brawl), but he'll have the power to beat back most opponents. I imagine Goku won't train Uub entirely, but have other people train him in aspects he sucks at, or get Uub in on some Whis training To be fair to Chi-Chi, she actually was the one to train Goten but I got the feeling it was only for self-defense. When Goten turned Super Saiyan, Chi-Chi broke down crying because she saw it as a sign that Goten would be a delinquent like Goku and get into brawls. Though the way you describe Uub being trained under Goku makes it sound like he'll be the next Gohan. A guy who relies on his innate potential with others being the one to actually train him. But really, as he is now, I just can't see Goku being able to train Uub.
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Sep 8, 2017 14:39
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So Dragon Ball Quest? We have Trunks as the main character whose village gets destroyed/cursed to timehell, but who is our Yangus here?
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Sep 8, 2017 14:57
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Forget Goten and Trunks, what I want to know is if Krillin and 18 taught Marron how to fight. Is she going to Destructo Disc some tanks and Solar Flare some fools?
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Sep 10, 2017 18:04
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Blockhouse posted:big if true: If only this tournament would do something interesting like that.  I'd laugh if it turns out that Goku gets hurt from trying to use the Spirit Bomb because he's such a terrible person now.
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Sep 12, 2017 09:35
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socialsecurity posted:Right along him eating all the time in Super even to the point where ChiChi makes him do chores to pay for the food he's eating when he specifically used to point out he only needs to drink water. You could probably explain that by Gohan always inviting his dad over for dinner so he got used to eating food. And I thought Piccoyo helps Chi-Chi do chores as a favor to Gohan/to help her buy things for their granddaughter.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:20
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Crabtree posted:That would actually be an interesting super gag episode: Goku is so powerful that a raditz level threat is boring and not worth his time. Didn't that already happen? There was an episode with some cat-like aliens who came to Earth because they heard someone fought Beerus and lived, and thought it was Satan. One of them looked like he might be as strong as Raditz and challenged Satan to a spar, and Satan had to beg Goku to give a poo poo and fight the cat for him.
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Sep 15, 2017 22:08
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Man, U6 is really showing up U7 in the team coordination department, huh? I guess this episode and part of the next one are supposed to be happening at the same time, but I can't help but think that Goku went all "ROSHI!", tried to rush over, and completely forgot about him because he's got a strong opponent in front of him. amigolupus fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Sep 17, 2017 |
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Sep 17, 2017 07:52
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Stairmaster posted:why doesnt the antagonist of this arc have a personality I don't know, I thought the antagonist of this arc has a lot of personality. A love for battle that leads to him making terrible decisions, treating this entire event like a fun playground, constantly lying to his friends and loved ones, has a good reputation so people don't see anything wrong with his actions. Plenty interesting, I'd say. Carlosologist posted:Goku getting shook at Jiren's power was cool, for almost a second he was like " FTFY TheKingofSprings posted:Toppo is actually Superman. I thought they were more like Green Lanterns, myself. Toppo is Hal Jordan, the most boring one of all yet writers hype him up as the greatest of them all. Dyspo is Kyle Rayner, the young rookie whose cockiness and lack of experience leads to him getting dunked on. Toppo is Kilowog, Hal's close and infinitely more amusing friend who is just fun to be around.
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Sep 18, 2017 17:16
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Burkion posted:Universe 9 is when things just are poo poo. Something I do have to give credit to U9 for is that it's the only universe where we see the ToP for what it is: an apocalyptic horror story. There are people panicking and desperately trying to find a way to escape to another universe, and there are assholes who think they can do anything they want just because the universe is ending. It's chaotic, but the universe knowing what they're about to face is better since they have a chance to make peace with their fate, rather than going on about their day without knowing they could get erased at any moment.
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Sep 20, 2017 13:53
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notaspy posted:How did those people find out? The gokuniverse had no idea until the last moment and that was limited to the z fighters. I thought the leak might've been from the angel, or that the furry trio explained the stakes while trying to find team members and news spread out from there. Kashuno posted:it looks like other than Gohan/Frieza there will be Goku/Ribriane where she gets powered up when Helles is complimenting Goku. This really does make it feel like Goku was quick to forget about Roshi now that he's got someone strong to fight.
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Sep 20, 2017 17:57
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dr.acula posted:Also is anyone getting Injustice Superman vibes from Jiren? I get the feeling his teammates are kind of scared of him and all this gung ho-ness about Justice is actually out of sheer Stockholm syndrome. It's unlikely, but I'm hoping it's just that Jiren's the quiet type who doesn't like fighting despite his power. It's pretty much the only thing that can help set him apart from other rivals to Goku, IMO. I know Toppo said they'd drop justice for this tournament, but I took it more as "poo poo, we're down to three people. I know it sucks, but we have to get our acts together if we want to save our universe". Burkion posted:That's why him sacrificing himself against Buu, though ultimately pointless, was THE turning point for his character. His one selfless action that killed who he was for good and let a new man be born. A good post. What's remarkable to me is that even in Super, Vegeta keeps growing as a character. He starts off reluctantly making time for his family, to admitting he loves his wife and kid, becoming a teacher to Cabba and teaching him to take pride in his heritage, being an actual father figure to Future Trunks, and actively wanting to be there for the birth of his next child. Guy's really come a long way.RBX posted:The only plot right now is winning the tournament. Until there's a winner nothing else matters. The fun of it is just seeing all the characters interact. The only bad things recently is characters we've already seen interact just doing it again. We just need new interactions. I agree about the character interaction. Some of the better parts of this tournament was when other universes clashed with ones that aren't U7. The Hit and Dyspo fight was pretty fun, and Caulifla and Kale facing off with the other Pride Troopers got us good character development for Kale. We really need more of that.
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Sep 22, 2017 07:58
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A question to everyone, but what are your ideas for the most satisfying/passable/least satisfying ways for this arc to end?
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Sep 25, 2017 14:23
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They really should just fire Toyotaro at this point and let the one who wrote the Yamcha reincarnation manga take over the Super manga. Wouldn't be surprised if Toyotaro makes Goku win this tournament all on his own.
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Sep 25, 2017 18:01
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Manatee Cannon posted:there is a problem with this tournament in that it feels like a really elongated version of that time shin was amazed that the saiyans were so much better than babidi's goons You know, when this arc started I was wondering how Krillin, Piccolo and the rest could hope to contribute if each universe had people like Toppo who could go toe to toe with SSB. As cool as it had been to see Krillin or Roshi pull some cool moves, it's also honestly a joke how U7 effortlessly clowns on all the universes.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:35
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Momomo posted:It feels like they're trying to play it both ways at any given time. They justified it by saying the universes were gonna be destroyed anyway, but you still have things like Toppo calling Goku evil, and Goku straight up not caring at all that other universes are being destroyed. It feels like we're definitely supposed to feel weird about Goku this arc, but they don't want to fully commit to him being in the wrong. I agree. I feel that Super's been building up that trying to keep getting into fights is going to cost you a lot, and Goku being the reason universes would get erased was an interesting and logical direction for it. But no, Goku gets all the fights he wanted and he even gets a new form to go with this arc. The most frustrating bit for me is how characters and the narrator and the characters go out of their way to justify a lot of Goku's actions as something more noble than it really is. The whole "Goku actually saved one universe" was already mentioned, but I think one of the episodes where the other universes were desperately scrambling to find ten warriors had the narrator go "But how will Goku fight to protect everyone now?", IIRC. Or when Goku said he never planned to save people and it just comes with getting into fights had 17 go, "Huh, you're amazing". Or when Goku let Caulifla and Kale go saying he wants to face them when they're stronger had 17 and 18 go, "I see you spared them because it's the human thing to do".
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Sep 25, 2017 21:34
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Something else that makes me feel really sorry for Chi-Chi is how she had no idea what she was getting into marrying someone with an appetite like Goku. Didn't Ox King used to have a literal mountain of loot? Something like that might've lasted for generations, yet it only took almost 20 years of Saiyan appetite to completely bankrupt them. (Also including Gohan and Goten here) Given how the Budokai announcer reacted as if he hadn't seen them in ages during the Buu Saga, Goku never bothered participating in tournaments to earn them prize money. And Super shows Chi-Chi has a hard time getting Goku to focus on farming, so that wouldn't do wonders for their income either. I feel like it adds a sense of desperation to how much she pushes Gohan to study and be a scholar with a high-paying job, really.
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Sep 30, 2017 21:34
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Kashuno posted:Idk why people keep equating “pride” with “stupid dumb idiot fighters” I mean, we already got Super Saiyan Lesbians so maybe it's actually a different kind of pride.  Nessus posted:I figure this is why Vegeta will get rung-out before the very end, to take this one off the table. It's wishful thinking, but I wish Goku's the one who gets knocked out and Vegeta and Gohan have to be the ones to finish this. Vegeta's performance in the ToP has been pretty good, but Gohan's is just...odd for all the hyping of him finding a new path/being stronger.
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Oct 4, 2017 05:46
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seiferguy posted:I just wish Goku had a bit more to him than "fightin' stronger guys" even if that's Toriyama's intention. But Vegeta and Piccolo have character growth (even if it's a predictable "bad guy turned good" one). If Vegeta and Piccolo can have character growth from bad guys to good guys, then surely Goku can do it too. Personally, I don't want them to cop out by using a timeskip to give Goku a different characterization. As he is right now, I really cannot see him as the mentor type, much less train others since Goku would just get bored and want to fight someone strong instead.My wish is for Goku to be served a huge slice of humble pie soon, and we can see in the next few arcs how he transitions from battle junkie to a zen master. The ToP's biggest disappointment for me is that it tried to do something new and interesting with Goku, but the writers backed down hard from it. Manatee Cannon posted:goku could definitely ring out against jiren. it'd fit the general trend of goku getting owned in super It'd be an amazing troll if there was a tie and Freeza jumped off the ring as a huge gently caress you towards Goku.
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Oct 4, 2017 09:59
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Watched the special and caught up to the thread, and that fight really delivered. A few thoughts/observations: - I was surprised that my guess of the Zenos/Beerus/Whis providing ki to Goku to unlock his new form didn't happen. I'm not sure how the combined ki from the other U7 fighters could have hoped to finish off Jiren, much less give Goku the juice to unlock UI. - I feel sorry for Ribrianne. The show tried to sell her powerful new form, but it fell flat because Goku kept fighting her at base form. Feels kind of disrespectful, really. I did like that she learned from 17 about sniping opponents in the middle of transformations though. - Ultra Instinct was kind of disturbing, it was like Goku became a powerful meat puppet in automatic attack mode. I still think that Goku didn't deserve yet another power-up. - Jiren might actually be a pacifist, or at least not enjoy fighting. That's twice now that he defeated a powerful opponent then didn't knock out of the ring. It feels strangely merciful of him. Zwingley posted:Anyone else get the feeling Goku wasn't really enjoying fighting Jiren? As far as I recall, he never had his doofy fight-loving smile on when he was getting the stuffing knocked out of him, and he didn't talk about being excited by a strong opponent. I think it might be because Jiren isn't engaging with him. Goku's opponents have either: wanted to surpass him (Piccolo/Krillin), wanted to hurt him/put him in his place (Freeza/Zamasu), wanted to have fun (Fat Buu/Beerus), was drawn into enjoying fights (Tien/Hit) or Vegeta. But Jiren doesn't care about any of that at all. He doesn't see Goku when they're fighting, he sees a target to show off U11's power. Kashuno posted:Krillin explained it pretty well; both Goku and Jiren are serious martial artists who treated each other as worthy opponents and respected each other for it. I thought this part of the episode made Krillin sound like an idiot. From what we saw, Jiren only let Goku do what he did until he went UI because Belmod wanted to break the fighting spirit of the other universes. It didn't seem like he saw Goku as a worthy opponent. That, and it also felt like a really clunky excuse to try and justify why Goku keeps fighting people in base form.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:34
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Considering Super, shouldn't that be Frieza or Jiren he's kissing there?
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Oct 20, 2017 16:45
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