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Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

tbp posted:

moro / dbs as a whole is kinda weird how they get it right and then go on for another handful of chapters where they get it wrong for no reason

why not just end with "vegeta grew as a person and a character, overcame some old flaws, and saved teh day for a change"????
Dragon Ball in general has a pretty pragmatic writing style. It sets up a lot of story and emotional beats, but when it comes to fighting it doesn't matter how much the characters want something to happen, the strongest person wins, period. Its something I really like about the series, all these endless hopes and efforts being shattered due to things just being how they are. Krillin is just never going to beat Cell for example, no matter how well it would fit the story or his character arc. When the big players are fighting, as a side character the best you can hope to be is a momentary distraction at the right time. It's become a bit more free on that front in DBS I feel but its overall still there. Android Whatshisnumber's big contribution to the Jiren fight was: hiding behind a rock.

There's something charming about a series that still after 40? years refuses to budge on the feeling of hopelessness and constant failure some characters are facing. Vegeta is probably not going to win anything, no matter how much he wants to, because he just isn't good enough to do it.

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Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

grieving for Gandalf posted:

I don't like god ki or Ultra Instinct because they're so ill-defined.

how did Vegeta get god ki? how do you get more of it?

if Ultra Instinct is the idea of your body being able to react and attack without thinking, what about it cranks Goku's strength up? why is it not just base level strength but now it's harder to hit him because he has perfect reaction speed?
This bothers me to no end as well. UI was loving excellent and unique as just entering the mind's Zen and reacting on instinct. Then suddenly he's shooting ki blasts behind his back and doing.... psychic holds? Yeah sure, i guess.

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

Kanos posted:

Basically every Dragonball villain that says they want the ultimate challenge really just wants someone strong to kick the poo poo out of so they can feel self-superior. None of them actually want to fight someone who can plausibly kick their rear end.
One Piece just did a villain that actually did want to get their rear end kicked, for real, and it was glorious.

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

TwoPair posted:

Ultra Ego is a dumb power up because "get the poo poo beat out of them yet somehow become more powerful" is like, the most basic power that all shonen protagonists have. Like I'm trying to think of a big power up in anime that doesn't come after a character gets the poo poo get kicked out of them and I'm at a loss. Like, maybe a character gets stronger training or something like Gohan unlocking Super Saiyan (although I do believe that comes via Goku beating him up a lot training) or but the real power ups when the heroes are half-dead.
One piece was not like that for the most part, (spoiler of only older pre-Wano manga stuff just in case you havent read the series) Luffy would usually show off his powerups before the big fight and they would either be finished decisively with a big hit, or devolve into stamina-contest slugfests.

Like in Enies Lobby, he shows off Gear 2nd and Gear 3rd before the big fight with Lucci, and part of the tension of that fight is that you already know what his powerups are, he has no more aces up his sleeve. The fight ends with Luffy getting up again after getting KO'd for the second and just doing a plain old regular punch series on a worn out Lucci. You could argue that Luffy figures out his powerups after CP9 beats them up and grabs Robin in Water 7, but the gap between that and the later fights is so big that they are basically separate arcs, and it's more of a interpersonal story driver than an 'I need to get stronger' motivation. Crucially, there is no training arc, Luffy just passively invents some poo poo while sleeping.

Same with Gear 4th, he pops it early in the fight, never really gets KO'd or properly challenged, finishes with just a big punch. Later when he faces Katakuri, that fight involves no new powerups, and also finishes with just a contest of stamina and a dual exchange leading to a double KO.

The only thing I can think of is, in Alabasta he figures out how to beat Crocodile after getting nearly killed, but the solution was 'oh he's weak to water' and the 'powerup' was carrying some water in a big barrel so it doesn't fit the bill.

Bisse fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jun 15, 2022

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

New Leaf posted:

I can't get behind the art of One Piece, it just looks so dumb to me.. Same with Jojo. Maybe I'm in the minority.
A lot of One Piece relies on putting silly cartoon characters in very serious and emotional situations. So yes Buggy is a literal clown with a red nose and feet that go honk honk, and his henchman is a swords guy on a uniwheel, but you won't remember that when engrossed in the tale of the poor dog who nobody loved and clown pirates killed the old guy taking care of him or whatever it was and only Zoro killing the uniwheel guy can save the poor dog and it's really emotional! Alabasta also has a whole bunch of funny silly cartoony figures, but the topic of that arc is a country succumbing to starvation under tyranny and then you reeally reaaally wanna see the rubber man punch the bad sand man and save the cartoon people.

Bisse fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jun 15, 2022

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

Thats surreal and all but not as surreal as that outofcontext page of dapper moustache guy lunge-drop-punching a frog with Jotaro looking on with a shocked face.

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

Last Celebration posted:

It was really cool how they made it look like Ultra Ego was gonna be cool for a minute before crapping out. Is Ultra Ego gonna be the new jobber form? Is it the Yamcha of Dragonball Super?
Well getting hit in the face until victory worked well for Ippo

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

So all vegeta needs to do to win is find the right balance between getting hit a lot and not dying.

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

I'm just casually dropping in every 3rd chap or so occasion to see punchmen punching each other, but even I can tell this seems really drab and soulless at this point. Its a shame because the tournament arc was pretty cool and UI was an at least somewhat inspired powerup.

Meanwhile this is just "I stared at the clouds for 30secs so now I can have emotions during UI, therefore now my fireballs hit harder." At least UI showed some difference in fighting style, but this is just the exact same poo poo as before and the villain says ouch more now.

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

Choked on my strawberries at "He's a garishly-colored giant who just rampages around screaming, so I feel kinda bad for the voice actor. And he's such a veteran voice actor, too. I'm so sorry."

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

projecthalaxy posted:

I have never learned what rollback is and at this point I'm afraid to ask. I just know we have to threaten devs kids on twitter unless we get it.

Simplest explanation I can think of is:

You add a input buffer for the other player's input, of let's say 5 frames, where you just don't change the other player's inputs (say if I press LP, the game just pretends I held it down for 5 more frames). Then every time you get an update from the other player with new inputs, you re-compute the last five frames. This allows you to replace a lot of your input latency with some 'teleportation' oddities instead which occur when you re-compute frames when new inputs arrive from the other player.

That's about as simple as I can describe it.

Oh and it just so happens in fighting games those oddities are not too common, especially if you are comboing the other person his inputs don't matter, but your input timings are super important, this is kind of unique to 1v1 fighting games making them the type of game where this is the perfect tradeoff.

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

That's uh, crazy good

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

That sounds super fun, i'd love to play through a match or two like that. Depends on the ratio to standard vs excellent matches I guess.

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

Black August posted:

one or more of the characters going through a training routine you can follow along with to get a little workout
Goku: Steps into 100x grav hyperbolic time chamber
Me: Steps into my wardrobe

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

CT has a great setup, is really fun, and Lavos was scary as hell, and the story if great if you can accept that it's basically a MOTW setup. The battles are very dated and most random encounters are spam attack to win, only the boss fights are interesting, when everything comes together right fights can get really tense and exciting, Giga Gaia and the final Lavos battle being the best I think, unfortunately battles like that are kind of rare.

Anyway i've replayed it 3 times so it's a flawed but great game and has some magic to it.

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

Dragon Ball is big enough at this point that whatever you wish happened has happened somewhere in some offshoot or filler.

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

They turned a sword into a stick?

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

SeANMcBAY posted:

Jiren needed more backstory but I like how he was handled in the tournament itself.
Origin: "Strong fighter from another universe"
Motivation: "don wanna my fren to die"

That's really all that was needed, and agree he would have been better if they leaned harder into making him an overly serious emotionless concrete wall that just kinda exists. Like Goku could at some moment wonder "What challenges has this guy had to overcome to be this strong..." and we never find out because Jiren Mouth Shut, that would have been dope. There were enough other people with character and backstories and relationships throughout the tournament and that would have made this bit even better.

Also RIP Toriyama you sure knew how to draw some punch mans, wish you a wonderful trip down snake road!

Bisse fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Mar 12, 2024

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

Captain Oblivious posted:

Chrono Trigger is kind of boring to revisit.
Die. I replay it every 5 years and get equally surprised every time by how good the game still is.

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

New Leaf posted:

I love Cell as a villain though, he would have been a fun returning character in a different world. He could continuously get stronger thanks to the Saiyan DNA and pull some King Piccolo shenanigans and send monsters he created to terrorize the Z Fighters and now I'm just describing the plot of Power Rangers..

Hahaaa! After 10,000 years, i’m free! Time to conquer earth!

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

Imagine being the person needing to map near-identical hairstyles to the correct name and if you get it wrong 10,000 fans worldwide will hunt you.

Oh i'm sorry blonde with spiky upwards hair style about 40cm long should have been *checks death threat* "Gogeta" not "Vegeto", my bad.

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

Majin Duumbass
Majin Duuh
Majin D. Uu

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Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

broke:

Siegkrow posted:

The unwillingness to move on to the next generation and leave Goku and Vegeta behind is the biggest weakness of modern Dragon Ball.
I'd be jazzed for a new show that's only the younger characters having to stand up because Goku is either dead or AFK, like with the Super Heroes movie, or the second Broly movie.

Hello, give us a game that's just after Goku's death/retirement, a new generation. People of Pan, Bra and Marron's generation. New stuff, come on, that's what games are for!

woke: space son goku go raaaaaaaahhh :asoiaf:

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