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dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


I saw Furie, a Vietnamese flick about a debt collector from a rural village going to Saigon to rescue her daughter from human traffickers. Veronica Ngo I don't think has a martial arts background but did her own fights and was really good overall. Her character is not the usual action movie invincible badass, she gets her rear end kicked more than she does the kicking. There isn't a huge amount of action but what there was was pretty good. The best part of the movie was being the only white guy in the theater filled with Vietnamese families, from very young children to grandmas, supporting Vietnamese filmmakers by watching this totally inappropriate-for-children violent and gory movie. I hope they enjoyed it as much as I did.

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dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


I watched the new Scott Adkins flick Avengement and it rules. That is all.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


There are still people, even Scott Adkins fans, not hip to Avengement. Get on it, people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq-JeB4IHKw

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


I think that lieutenant was played by Tim Man, who did the fight choreography for Ninja 2 and most of Scott Adkins' subsequent films. He's also in Undisputed 4 fighting against Adkins. I believe his background is in taekwondo but I don't know anything about martial arts.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Triple Threat was actually filmed like 3 or 4 years ago and Jesse Johnson complained that there was lots of Chinese interference which caused changes for the worse and much delays. In any case I don't think Johnson's primary interest or skill is in showing cool fights, but in more character driven crime stories like The Debt Collector. Even in Avengement, the fights were more brutal than showy, which worked really well for the story.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


I recommend the director's commentary on Hard Target 2, where he discusses a lot of the realities and limitations of low budget action filmmaking. IIRC he says they had less than twenty days to shoot the whole thing and just two days to rehearse the fight scenes. They averaged 100 setups per day, which is probably 8 times what they shot on John wick 3. It's a miracle any of these direct to video movies are any good at all.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


MrBling posted:

Eliminators any good?

Yes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvcOzHYWMVA

Edit: this post made me want to watch the movie again, which I did, and it still rules.

dokmo fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Aug 31, 2019

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


I don't think this was posted here, but mubi has a very good article on the best action scenes of the last decade.

part one
part two

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


It's real good op

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Basebf555 posted:

Yea when he's paired with even a reasonable budget, the results are always outstanding. But he also has done a bunch of zero budget stuff that can still be enjoyable but you need to have a tolerance for crappy production values. It's a shame that he had to make so many of those to eventually work his way up to stuff like Accident Man and Debt Collector.

I guess At Close Range qualifies for this, because that movie kicks rear end no matter how cheap it looks.

I would add Ninja 2 to the list of essential Adkins, the best white guy ninja movie ever made.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Tezcatlipoca posted:

Crying Freeman is what everyone should be talking about re: Dacascos and I dont understand why it hasn't been mentioned.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


filmschoolrejects did their 50 best action movies of the decade list. posted without comment.

1. Mad Max: Fury Road (2015, Australia)
2. The Raid 2: Berandal (2014, Indonesia)
3. The Night Comes for Us (2018, Indonesia)
4. The Man from Nowhere (2010, South Korea)
5. The Raid: Redemption (2011, Indonesia)
6. Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014)
7. John Wick: Chapter 2 (2017)
8. Fast Five (2011)
9. Mission: Impossible – Rogue Nation (2015)
10. Haywire (2011)
11. Mission: Impossible – Ghost Protocol (2011)
12. Dredd (2012, UK)
13. John Wick: Chapter 3 – Parabellum (2019)
14. Mission: Impossible – Fallout (2018)
15. Avengement (2019, UK)
16. Tokyo Tribe (2014, Japan)
17. Ninja: Shadow of a Tear (2013, Thailand)
18. Blade of the Immortal (2017, Japan)
19. Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning (2012)
20. SPL II: A Time for Consequences (2015, China)
21. The Yellow Sea (2010, South Korea)
22. Hanna (2011)
23. John Wick (2014)
24. Furie (2019, Vietnam)
25. Spy (2015)
26. Master Z: Ip Man Legacy (2018, Hong Kong)
27. Jack Reacher (2012)
28. Upgrade (2018)
29. Man of Tai Chi (2013)
30. Hobo with a Shotgun (2011, Canada)
31. The Villainess (2017, South Korea)
32. Ip Man 2 (2010, China)
33. The Witch: Part 1 – Subversion (2018, South Korea)
34. Eliminators (2016, UK)
35. Ip Man 3 (2015, China)
36. No Tears for the Dead (2014, South Korea)
37. Re: Born (2016, Japan)
38. Nightshooters (2018, UK)
39. Confidential Assignment (2017, South Korea)
40. Jailbreak (2017, Cambodia)
41. Why Don’t You Just Die! (2018, Russia)
42. Wolf Warrior 2 (2017, China)
43. The Brink (2017, China)
44. Revenger (2018, South Korea)
45. Kill Order (2017, Canada)
46. No Escape (2015)
47. Atomic Blonde (2017)
48. The Dark Knight Rises (2012)
49. Plan B (2016, Germany)
50. Gemini Man (2019)

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


the best thing about the list is the intentional diversity. i'm not sure how many other lists would have only one american co-production in the top five, in addition to canadian and german ultra low budget productions that weren't great but were interesting.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


here's a nice feature on the Isaac Florentine/Scott Adkins collaborations

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


mastershakeman posted:

I've been powering through that list of movies and wolf warrior 2 might be the funniest jingoistic movie I've seen as an American. Is this what American movies feel like to everyone else? Amazing

What's great is that Wolf Warrior 2 inspired other countries to make their own jingoistic bombast, like Paskal (Malaysian) and Börü (Turkish). And then there's Sky Hunter, which is to China's air force what Wolf Warrior was to China's army. Only Paskal reaches the ridiculous heights of Wolf Warrior 2, however.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Inspector 34 posted:

Where are there a bunch of Adkins movies streaming? Been meaning to catch up on a bunch of the stuff you all have posted here but not really sure where to look for em.

Avengement is on netflix, Ninja Shadow Of A Tear is on tubi.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Jack B Nimble posted:

What are the top five I must see from that list/the last decade.

Here are my top five of the 2010s

The raid
Universal soldier day of reckoning
Re:born
The man from nowhere
Avengement

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Basebf555 posted:

The Raid 2 is, in some ways, better than the original but be aware that it's very different. Same protagonist, played by Iko Uwais, and same style of action choreography, but it's a completely different type of story.

The action in Raid 2 is also shot differently than the first one. Much longer takes with more blows exchanged in each shot, more camera movement. There's also that great oner during the car chase where the camera leaves one car through a window and drifts down to another car and through it. To me this raises Raid 2 to another level, certainly as far as degree of difficulty in filmmaking goes.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


City On Fire made a list of the 40 best martial arts movies of the decade (not in any kind of order, AFAIK):

Undisputed 3: Redemption (2010, USA)
Ong Bak 3 (2010, Thailand)
BKO: Bangkok Knockout (2010, Thailand)
Jiu-Jitsu (2010, Japan)
The Man from Nowhere (2010, South Korea)
14 Blades (2010, Hong Kong)
True Legend (2010, Hong Kong)
Bad Blood (2010, Hong Kong) AKA King of the Triads
KG: Karate Girl (2011, Japan)
The Raid (2011, Indonesia)
Wu Xia (2011, Hong Kong) AKA Dragon
The Lost Bladesman (2011, China)
Death Grip (2012, USA)
Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning (2012, USA)
CZ12 (2012, China) AKA Chinese Zodiac
Ninja: Shadow of a Tear (2013, USA)
Bushido Man (2013, Japan)
The Grandmaster (2013, Hong Kong)
Vengeance of an Assassin (2014, Thailand)
The Raid 2 (2014, Indonesia)
Once Upon a Time in Shanghai (2014, Hong Kong)
One Million K(l)icks (2015, Germany)
SPL II: A Time for Consequences (2015, Hong Kong)
Ip Man 3 (2015, Hong Kong)
Kung Fu Jungle (2015, Hong Kong)
Final Master (2015, China)
Boyka: Undisputed (2016, USA)
Re:Born (2016, Japan)
Karate Kill (2016, Japan)
The Bodyguard (2016, Hong Kong, D: Sammo Hung)
Sword Master (2016, China) AKA The Bodyguard (D: Yue Song)
Paradox (2017, Hong Kong)
The Brink (2017, Hong Kong)
Accident Man (2018, USA)
Revenger (2018, South Korea)
The Night Comes for Us (2018, Indonesia)
Triple Threat (2018, USA/China)
Shadow (2018, China)
Ip Man 4: The Finale (2019, Hong Kong)

The one that interests me is Jiu-Jitsu (2010, D: Hiroki Asai), which I can't find any information about at all. If you've never seen Bushido Man, I can confirm that if loving rules and is worth the effort to track down.

They also listed the 10 worst:

The Kick (2011, Thailand/South Korea)
Shadowguard (2011, Hong Kong) AKA The Blood Bond
Tom Yum Goong 2 (2013, Thailand) AKA The Protector 2
Special ID (2013, China)
Rise of the Legend (2014, Hong Kong)
Kung Fu Yoga (2017, China/India)
Kickboxer: Retaliation (2018, USA)
Iceman: The Time Traveller (2018, Hong Kong)
Master Z: The Ip Man Legacy (2018, Hong Kong)
Invincible Dragon (2019, Hong Kong)

I liked Special ID.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Stairmaster posted:

how is there a sequel to spl anyways considering how that film ended?

there are two "sequels", none of them have anything to do with the others.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


FancyMike posted:

I thought Master Z was pretty good, surprised to see it listed as one of the worst of the decade.

The descriptions of the movies on the list show some bias against wire-fu (as do I), that probably accounts for it.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


that is exactly what i wanted from that movie

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


The shantytown destruction scene is also recreated in the underrated thai classic Born To Fight.

And man, if you want to see thai stuntmen at their most reckless, Born To Fight is the movie for you.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


The reason imo fast five was so different from what came before was that the filmmakers hired legendary stunt coordinator Spiro Razatos to do the second unit. If you're looking for wild car chases you could do worse than go through his filmography, particularly the stuff he did in the 90s for straight-to-video production company PM Entertainment. Razatos did the each of the F&F movies since five, but did not do Hobbes and Shaw, which is why it was different and not as cool.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Speaking of Korean thrillers, I watched The Villainess again and was surprised that I've enjoyed it more each time I've sat through it. I think I was a victim of my own expectations the first time. Like many, many Korean thrillers, it has pacing issues, but this bothers me a lot less now that I've learned to accept the movie on its own terms. I'm curious about other people's experiences with it.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

kitchen fights are extremely good.

agreed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZxn9md_aZI

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


X-Ray Pecs posted:

Doesn’t JCVD fight the Penguin in the stadium kitchen in Sudden Death? That part loving slaps (and so does the rest of Sudden Death.)

drat right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq2NGEHJ6Qg

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


According to Adkins fb Debt Collector 2 has finished shooting.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Scott Adkins is counting down and talking about his top 5 movies on his yt channel. He's done 2 already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6RcEPY0A40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1q21lWdJzA

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


If DTV movies have taught me anything, it's that underground fights to the death staged for rich people gambling is the most lucrative business in the world.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Hard target 2 is a fun watch, not a great movie. I enjoyed the director commentary as well which is a must listen for anyone who wants to know how difficult it is to make any DTV action movie, much less a good one.

Adkins talks about his favorite Boyka movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGPQ59DaYrs

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


I gave Special ID a rewatch. Not a great flick, but the fight scenes are very good. Donnie Yen was going through a period of more realistic fight choreography, and there's not a lot of flashy kicks here, but lots of grappling instead. It's crazy how much better the fights are filmed in even the most routine Donnie Yen movie compared to literally any hollywood studio movie with 20 times the budget (aside from John Wicks I guess).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH78UyN2GKg

Boco_T posted:

Man of Tai Chi (2013) - 4/5, Netflix

Sometimes it feels like there are six people in the world who liked this movie. It's pretty good!

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Olympic Mathlete posted:

Watching that Scott Adkins top 5 and man they filmed Avengement in 17 days? That's drat impressive.

Yeah that was a shock. It's almost definitely the greatest action movie ever made in less than 3 weeks.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Olympic Mathlete posted:

Thread, I have to ask an important question. What are your thoughts on Shoot 'em Up?

I haven't seen it in a long time, but what I remember most is how well conceived the action was. It came out during that period when super fast cuts were in fashion, when almost every action scene was a confusing mess, but this movie did a great job of establishing the spatial relationships between the characters. Can you imagine how unintelligible a scene like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9TkKFn6Tk8

would be if say Luc Besson made it?

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


I am going to respectfully disagree. I liked the movie quite a bit, and liked that sequence. But I feel like that sequence was not helped at all by making it a fake single take shot—there were multiple moments when I was confused as to where everyone was in relation to each other, and cutting to a wider shot would have helped in these cases. Also one of the reasons to make such a long take is to increase the tension of sustained action, which it does, but the main reason is as kind of a technical dick waving move. But when the cuts are as obvious as they are in Extraction it takes away a lot of the impressiveness (compare to that scene in Atomic Blonde, where the cuts were hidden much more effectively). I still liked the scene and the whole movie, but was a little distracted by the showiness of faking a single take.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Al Cu Ad Solte posted:

Is it common for second units to shoot most of the action in films? I was reading this interview with Christopher Nolan and he mentioned he doesn't have a second unit, he shoots everything himself. Which made me wonder, I understand that movies are huge and a logistical nightmare, but wowie why would you want to direct an action movie...but not shoot the action yourself? Maybe that's not as common as I think? Some behind the scenes stuff for John Wick 3 showed Chad Stahelski on set and by the camera for just about every sequence.

many (most?) big budget action movies bring in second unit specialists, guys like Spiro Razatos and Dan Bradley are known for putting together big spectacle sequences. In the past there were guys like Vic Armstrong performing that role. There are also guys you bring in specifically for fight scenes, like Jeff Imada. I don't know anything about superhero movies, i assume there are action specialists working in those as well who get 2nd unit director credits.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


PeterCat posted:

Would the main director have decided all of the shots via storyboard before shooting? Would the 2nd unit just carry out that plan or are they given more autonomy?

In general big action scenes are very difficult to storyboard, there's just too many cuts, too many changes take place during the shooting. (Fury Road is the big exception to this, almost all the action was storyboarded.) I think a lot of modern action movies pre viz action scenes either on computers or with stuntmen shooting on rudimentary sets in a gym to work out the best shots. I'm sure the director has story beats he wants built into the sequence and maybe some hero shots that he definitely wants, but I believe in most cases the whole sequence is largely in the hands of the 2nd unit director. There's a lot of variation to this. Jackie Chan famously didn't choreograph anything until he got to the location to shoot, as he wanted to build the location into the action as much as possible. On lower budget movies where there is no 2nd unit, the director and stunt/fight coordinator usually work very closely to choreograph the action—in the Raid movies, they extensively prevized everything on cardboard sets, as this time is much cheaper than working stuff out on location while shooting. In big budget action movies they will sometimes bring in a big name 2nd unit guy specifically for coming up with a cool sequence, I'm sure in these cases the 2nd unit director is given a lot of leeway. For example, on Bourne Identity, there was a stunt where a guy jumps off a rooftop and into a window on the next building, it was Dan Bradley who came up with the shot that tracked the jump by giving a stuntman a camera and telling him to jump off the roof following the first stuntman, a truly great shot.

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


from the blessed pics thread


https://twitter.com/meowmays/status/1258878204019965957

dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Tak is back! with his Re:Born director Yûji Shimomura with another movie that looks like one big fight scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcFfeWCMCM8



They released a teaser trailer a year ago and have apparently been doing a bunch of reshoots. If you haven't seen Re:Born yet I can't recommend it enough.

dokmo fucked around with this message at 13:39 on May 11, 2020

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dokmo
Aug 26, 2006

man


Having been on the other side of the argument so many times, i feel like i now have to stick up for long takes. The reductio ad absurdum of the argument against them is that a million cuts = better, which is obviously the opposite of true, at least when it comes to action sequences. Obviously long takes can be good or bad, but it's worth remembering what they're inherently good at: Long takes are incredibly useful in immersing the viewer in the action. Even in showy shots like this one, where you feel the hand of the director at every second, you are still in the action in a way that a cut to another angle would take you further away from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJlCYNt2z9k

I think the complaint is that directors pull off these long takes (in particular, fake long takes) as a way to show off primarily, which is probably true. But sometimes it's also the best way to portray the action.

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