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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


peramene posted:

Murmur Twin has burst out of the torso of redneck nazgul the Betrayer in a tremendously bloody display of kindness

Never let it be said that I play without heart

I know 0 about the flavor of this game and haven't read anything yet but hello everyone!

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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


peramene posted:

none of these characters are super sexualized, what a ridiculous notion, ha ha ha

these characters have ascended past the level of super sexualized and are hypersexualized

and you know the rest

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

If MMT replaces out we will know for sure if they are scum or not.

The fact that I replaced in instead of out should tell you everything you need to know!

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Podima posted:

Oh okay cool I was going to see if I could figure out who was Aubrey because peramene would definitely have made them scum. Reminder that she used Aubrey as her av on the forums for a good long time, including when she was an evil horrible person in Awful Survivor.

##vote bif

On a scale of 1-10 how much of a smoking gun is this?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Bifauxnen posted:

Jeez, we could just vote Flam instead, I feel better about voting him anyway

Oh well, hi MT! Are you that Aubrey chick?

I am.

(not really though)

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Jamuraan posted:

##vote Hal
Always scum

---

I'm perfectly okay with my Hal vote. Considering he's not directly addressed me, I am concerned.

On a read-through this feels like the most fake content in the game so far. The original vote seemed to be intended as a jokephase vote and the way it morphed into "I am concerned because he didn't address my vote" doesn't feel genuine to me.

##vote Jam

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Also uhhh I didn't realize that deadline was in less than four hours when I signed up for this I have to run a few errands but should be back before deadline.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Podima posted:

Redneck's sad excuse for a policy vote is bad, agree.

I would also agree with this.

Podima posted:

and I'd still vote MMT purely on principle.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Flamander posted:

When it boils down to it, I've only had 2 games and 4 d2s worth of experience. One scum, one town. That was my point.

Anyways, my argument contradicts itself, right? Mind pointing out how so? Because you missed out a bit. 'By itself.' I was saying that the vote wasn't necessarily enough evidence. He could have posted soon after, giving a reason. Or even post at all. But the fact that he hasn't posted in this thread that much apart from a joke conversation about popping shortly after the game's start, that vote that basically says 'holy poo poo sandwolf is in this???' and his signup leads me to believe that redneck's probably scum.

Assuming you're willing to give me a pass (as I had no control over how much nazgul posted), who would be your next strongest suspect?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Bifauxnen posted:

Well, you're already way more active than you were in FF5, so there's that

Triggered.

I'm phonebound until morning, will reread when home from work

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


I'm home and catching up now! I'm not in a masonry.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Bifauxnen posted:

Not liking this at all, I'm watching you rear end in a top hat grandpa

peramene posted:



Nikki, as played by Podima, has been popped.

Bifauxnen posted:

##vote hal

##vote Hal

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


I've also never played flipless and agree with the sentiment of "wait, doesn't that mean we're stuck in perpetual d1?" but am always down for a challenge I haven't really seen anything from Jam that's made me change my mind there yet but I guess there's still plenty of time in the game day for that.

Right now my gut leans towards Flam and Pod both having been town - I feel like the d1 lynch resulting in scum is almost as rare as the NK doing it.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Hal Incandenza posted:

What am I missing here?

Bif made a post about watching the NK target, and then voted you to open D2 - it's entirely possible (probable even) that she was just goofing around but I figured it's as good of an opening vote as any.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

Why not ask for clarity on that?

I mean, I basically am, I just thought that'd be as good a way to do it as any.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


I have an eye on Sandwolf as well - he's posting, but outside of casing nazgul for lurking he hasn't really cased anyone or made any effort to find scum.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Just caught up again and

Somberbrero posted:

like not loving much! so it's like, what was the point of this? we kept missing each other with my work schedules. i'm checking back now.

d1: asks me if i have any other abilities.

we talk a little about jokephase

talks about how town max seems

calls me out for lurking

asks me how i feel about mithross

says something about pod not getting the girl he picked

d2: mostly us missing each other and him calling me out for lurking more

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that other_bif is Max (the only other person who seemed to know anything about masonries).

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

OK well I'm not one to let a game just wallow into a barely noticable crawl because of something like flipless, so good or bad I'm just gonna claim:

I'm Venus, and know a little bit about the setup. Mostly, I know that everyone here SHOULD be in a masonry of some kind. I'm not in one because Kyu got got N0 so I'm all alone now.

Did you learn of anything that might explain how Somber thinks he's in a masonry with bif but she denies it?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Jamuraan posted:

I'm not trying to interject too much RL into this but I've been struggling with lately. I slept like 10 hours into the day after playing Civ 5 until 8am. I didn't reread anything from before today, sorry I lied and said I would. I'm not part of a masonry either and without any flips I really have no clue where to start. Like someone said, WIFOMing the kill probably won't lead to much.

Y'all can lynch me if you want, I know a few of you still think I'm the best choice, but I'm not scum and unfortunately you won't even gain any information from lynching me.

I think if anyone else has more info about the setup it can only help us. This masonry hint from Max doesn't seem dishonest, but it seems strange that no one else has backed him up.

The silver lining to choking as bad as I did in FF5 is that I think I can see it when other people are going through similar stress trying to scum.

##vote Jam for now. I'm going to sleep but look forward to figuring out what's up with that masonry.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

Oh, no. Just that everyone should be in a masonry.

How do you mean "should be in a masonry"? Is it like assessing the present situation (ie "I counted the money and it should all be in there") or recommending a future one (ie "we have all this money, we should go on vacation!")? Or is it phrased that way and the meaning is ambiguous?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Sandwolf posted:

The rehashing of the flipless dilemma, light suspicion on Jam (no reasoning), and then some assurance that the two dead are both town.

That's a scummy fuckin' post, dangit!!

I was just stream of conscious'ing after catching up on the game. You omit the both the case I made earlier (here) and the part where I later make a vote and case:

Murmur Twin posted:

The silver lining to choking as bad as I did in FF5 is that I think I can see it when other people are going through similar stress trying to scum.

##vote Jam for now. I'm going to sleep but look forward to figuring out what's up with that masonry.

To be fair, my case was a reference to a game you weren't in so I can see where it wouldn't have made sense to some people. I'm going to put it in my next post.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Jamuraan posted:

Been living my life, sorry for not being here and for not participating much, I'll try to get my top 3 leads.

I'm really surprised I'm getting chastised for trying to take a more reasoned approach to the game instead of taking the cheap way out and using emotional appeal.

I've been skimming the thread and not really making any connections because I'm being lazy, but I'll turn it around asap, please trust I'm not scum.

---

I'm not trying to interject too much RL into this but I've been struggling with lately. I slept like 10 hours into the day after playing Civ 5 until 8am. I didn't reread anything from before today, sorry I lied and said I would. I'm not part of a masonry either and without any flips I really have no clue where to start. Like someone said, WIFOMing the kill probably won't lead to much.

Y'all can lynch me if you want, I know a few of you still think I'm the best choice, but I'm not scum and unfortunately you won't even gain any information from lynching me.

I think if anyone else has more info about the setup it can only help us. This masonry hint from Max doesn't seem dishonest, but it seems strange that no one else has backed him up.

---

I'm sorry, I'm playing in another game and that is taking up most of my attention. I really am trying to keep up with the thread and I have a few ideas I want to think about before I speak them out lest I be even slightly wrong about something and someone hounds me for it forever.

What things do people see from Jam in these posts? Choose all that apply:

(a) a self-conscious awareness of how others perceive him
(b) effort put into explaining why he's not making cases
(c) cases and votes

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Sandwolf posted:

I really don't find the case on Jamuraan to be compelling

What's your opinion of Jam's alignment and why?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

Why not ask for clarity on that?

Sandwolf posted:

You read that entire post and decided he was scum without muster? Wouldn't he be more likely to replace out? I don't like this vote either.

Did I miss some mafia memo where you can't vote for someone unless you're super-duper sure they're scum?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Somberbrero posted:

skimming, not feeling particularly compelled by these cases.

max, how would i know when bif is asleep? checking the doc today, all other-bif has posted in it since then is this:

:o)
(o:


but like two dozen times.

Hahaha I'll bet 100$ it's Birdstrike.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Murmur Twin posted:

Hahaha I'll bet 100$ it's Birdstrike.

To clarify:

(a) I know from Myst that he likes bantering with pera
(b) It'd explain why faux-bif picked bif as the person to fakeclaim
(c) The weirdness of someone else from outside the game playing a role seems consistent with a twist I could see pera using
(d) It sounds like (from the smiley-face spamming) that it's a shitposter, but definitely doesn't sound like bif

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Also it's 75 and sunny and I live next door to the beach so I'm out for a little while, more tonight.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Jamuraan posted:

MY THOUGHTS SO FAR:
Somber: Somber is reading scummier and scummier as I read more. I find strange buddying to be a scum attempt to latch onto a weaker town early to get an extra vote and then they try to flip and lynch them in the middle days. I think this is exactly what Somber was trying to do with me. And then his attack on MMT didn't make any sense to me, where his basis for voting was from one of MMTs very first posts. I really thought Betrayer was town, and I don't really see the case here on MMT either.



Bif: It always bothers me when people are super active, to the point of trying to lead or coerce. Bossy scum are dangerous and scary, and that's what I think Bif is doing this game. Also part of my suspicion is that Bif might actually be the anonymous messenger and for whatever reason doesn't want to admit it. All this non-sense makes me wonder if there's any alignment meta to address. Is the mysterious mason buddy more likely to be Scum or Town? Obviously Somber and his whisperer aren't both scum or the masonry makes no sense. Maybe 3p? This part is loving with my head too much so for now I'm just gonna assume it's a bad role trying to sow discord, but not necessarily scum. I know that last part is WIFOMy but I still think Bif looks scummy without it.

I feel like you're contradicting yourself here - if you think Somber is scum, what could the masonry possibly be? Why would there be someone lying about their identity in a masonry to a scumbo?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Somberbrero posted:

I don't want to oversimplify and confuse the issue, but how much of this could be explained as poor town play rather than effective scum play? i see most of that posting as attributable to town as well.

I think that the self-consciousness is specifically a scum trait - like the last time I was scum I felt hyper-aware of the fact that I didn't have any sort of point of view and kept apologizing for it, and after thinking about it I came to realize that I only ever do that as scum.

Somberbrero posted:

i'm setting an alarm for an hour from now. jam, if you're town, you really should claim. without flips this is absolutely mission critical.

otherwise i'll hammer then.


Somberbrero posted:

i'm setting an alarm for an hour from now. jam, if you're town, you really should claim. without flips this is absolutely mission critical.

otherwise i'll hammer then.

Are you still talking with fake_bif? This is mostly just curiousity on my part.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

Also driving upstate soon so I'll probably drop a vote and jet in a moment.

---

Let's see what happens when we tie it up.

##vote MMT

I wished you good casino luck and everything What, you think I offer that to just anyone?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Sandwolf posted:

Seriously, don't take my word for it, go read through Murmur Twin's post history, it's less than a page.

Pay attention to every post, even innocent ones like this:


The rehashing of the flipless dilemma, light suspicion on Jam (no reasoning), and then some assurance that the two dead are both town.

That's a scummy fuckin' post, dangit!!

I feel this is a case of glass houses and stones. Did my clarifying what I found scummy about Jam influence your read on me?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

pera chan is bad
She makes you do things that hurt
Like this bad p.r.

Haikus are fun and
I will join in solidarity.
What's the cause (flavor)?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Hahaha I was going to try and continue posting in haiku form and struggled mightily with it, sorry Max!


Are you still in the masonry?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

The middle line has
Eight syllables, you should be
Glad you are not me

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Granted not everyone has checked in yet but right now if you were to put a gun to my head I'd say it was a Jam/Sand scumteam.

Sandwolf posted:

I reckon this masonry poo poo isn't gonna bring us any answers anytime soon, so, why don't we pay attention to the deadline coming up.

---

I really don't find the case on Jamuraan to be compelling, and the more I look at Hal's second vote there, the more uneasy it makes me.

MT's vote reasoning is extremely flimsy and mostly illusion, there's no real desire to find scum there, just apathy.

----

Seriously, don't take my word for it, go read through Murmur Twin's post history, it's less than a page.

Pay attention to every post, even innocent ones like this:

The rehashing of the flipless dilemma, light suspicion on Jam (no reasoning), and then some assurance that the two dead are both town.

That's a scummy fuckin' post, dangit!!

Sandwolf started going after me when I made a case on Jam for it being a fake case. After I explained my rationale he fell quiet instead of arguing it or looking for someone else.

Consider this a virtual vote but this late in the game I'll wait until everyone has had a chance to check in before I start voting.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


I'm starting to consider the idea that it's a Somber/Max scumteam and all of the "weird" things (the masonry and the haiku PR on D2) are them just trying to throw us off the scum-hunting scent

Somberbrero posted:

Yeah. I just checked and today is the first time they haven't said anything though. I guess that could change though.

Were you in the masonry to start the game or did it happen N1?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

You use that but not
Me tying you up in the
Vote end of day 2?

Admittedly I had forgotten about that - at the time I was reading you as town and figured that was you fishing for reactions since the other votes on me were Sandwolf (for not explaining my case) and Somber (who claimed to understand what I was saying after I re-iterated my points).

Why did you vote for me? Do you think I'm scum? If not me, who?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

I am paranoid
That faux-bif is using this
To pin on N.2.

Hahahaha I'm sorry to do this to you but can you explain what you mean by this?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Max posted:

Very busy fri.
Please do not make me scramble
Will hate you a lot.

This post is a lot funnier if you visualize Max as an egg

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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.


Phoneposting until further notice

Sandwolf posted:

The brass balls to say Jam, or anyone dead, is one alignment or another is just absolutely bonkers.

You were wrong about Jam yesterday



You're casing me for not having authentic calls? How many people have you cased this game besides me?

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