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my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Oven Wrangler

I seriously doubt 22lr is going to do any damage to the device. Significantly less gas/pressure than a 9mm. I could be wrong but I personally would not sweat it.

But yeah as you said it's probably going to get much more dirty shooting 22lr than a centerfire round.

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John DiFool
Aug 27, 2013



ChesterJT posted:

Got a 9mm pistol can ordered that comes with piston/Nielson. I've heard you should take off the piston and put a direct thread end on for non-tilting and rifles to reduce wear on it which makes sense. Is that still an issue if I'm throwing it on something like a 22lr rifle that will have minimum recoil? From what I'm reading the bigger issue would be the spring assembly getting dirty as hell.

Not just the spring, the baffles are gonna be filthy. I wouldn't shoot 22lr through a can unless it's user serviceable. If you shoot enough 22lr through one it will build enough gunk to block the bullet path.

Comfy sponk
Mar 30, 2007



When using the silencershop site, submitted form 4 individual, how long was the actual turn around on getting approved and receiving your stamp? check was cashed on 9/18/20 and there hasn't been movement since. The NFA tracker (I know it's an estimate but still) shows 175 days for individual paper and 168 for e-file (I thought that wasn't running yet).

Just getting antsy to put my suppressor on my guns and pew.

Armacham
Mar 3, 2007

Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?

Comfy sponk posted:

When using the silencershop site, submitted form 4 individual, how long was the actual turn around on getting approved and receiving your stamp? check was cashed on 9/18/20 and there hasn't been movement since. The NFA tracker (I know it's an estimate but still) shows 175 days for individual paper and 168 for e-file (I thought that wasn't running yet).

Just getting antsy to put my suppressor on my guns and pew.

Mine was cashed on 9/25 and I'm also still waiting.

BadgerMan45
Dec 30, 2009


Comfy sponk posted:

When using the silencershop site, submitted form 4 individual, how long was the actual turn around on getting approved and receiving your stamp? check was cashed on 9/18/20 and there hasn't been movement since. The NFA tracker (I know it's an estimate but still) shows 175 days for individual paper and 168 for e-file (I thought that wasn't running yet).

Just getting antsy to put my suppressor on my guns and pew.

I had one that was check cashed on 19Sep20, approved 9Jan21, and stamp received 20Jan21. Y'all aren't way outside the normal time yet though, hopefully you don't end up like one of my buddies, he was waiting on one for 18 months. Bought another can way after that one and got it first.

Comfy sponk
Mar 30, 2007



BadgerMan45 posted:

I had one that was check cashed on 19Sep20, approved 9Jan21, and stamp received 20Jan21. Y'all aren't way outside the normal time yet though, hopefully you don't end up like one of my buddies, he was waiting on one for 18 months. Bought another can way after that one and got it first.

That's messed up.

Mostly was hoping to not have to wait another year before getting my second one in my hands. First can took almost exactly 365 days.

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


BadgerMan45 posted:

Bought another can way after that one and got it first.

I've had that happen with cans getting out of order. My ffl and I were confused because they basically rushed the 2nd can and drug their feet on the 1st. Just the luck of the draw since it was all the same paperwork for both.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


So surefire makes a training suppressor and also a blast diffuser called the 'warden' which are both non-NFA. If they just extended the body of the warden to be as long as their training suppressor with the same kind of 'blast diffuser' end would it still be legal?

ChesterJT
Dec 28, 2003

Crescent Fresh




John DiFool posted:

Not just the spring, the baffles are gonna be filthy. I wouldn't shoot 22lr through a can unless it's user serviceable. If you shoot enough 22lr through one it will build enough gunk to block the bullet path.

Yeah it's serviceable thankfully. I didn't plan on using it too much on the 22, just for fun range times every now and again. I plan on getting a dedicated 22 can eventually. My first suppressor buy, just got my form 4 in yesterday, check not cashed even so I know I've got a ways to go. Did a form 1 for a SBR a couple years ago and it was relatively painless, minus the $200 sting.

The Bananana
May 21, 2008

This is a metaphor, a Christian allegory. The fact that I have to explain to you that Jesus is the Warthog, and the Banana is drepanocytosis is just embarrassing for you.





Ok, just read the OP.
Question:
LETS SAY IM AN IDIOT! just for rhetorical purposes.
How or where do I go to find out what is needed to get a suppressor attached and working on my gun. Because the stuff I've read is not super clear. (For clarity, I'm not talking about the legal atf stuff)
I have a stock Springfield Saint Victor. Do I need a new muzzle?
Do I need any additional parts to support a Suppressor?
Appreciate the info, folks. Thanks

John DiFool
Aug 27, 2013



The Bananana posted:

Ok, just read the OP.
Question:
LETS SAY IM AN IDIOT! just for rhetorical purposes.
How or where do I go to find out what is needed to get a suppressor attached and working on my gun. Because the stuff I've read is not super clear. (For clarity, I'm not talking about the legal atf stuff)
I have a stock Springfield Saint Victor. Do I need a new muzzle?
Do I need any additional parts to support a Suppressor?
Appreciate the info, folks. Thanks

Thereís two main routes for attaching a suppressor to an AR barrel: Direct thread or muzzle device.

I believe a muzzle device is generally better. Usually this will be a flash hider or brake that is compatible with the suppressor youíve chosen. I would figure out which suppressor you want and then look for muzzle devices compatible with that suppressor and your barrel thread pitch. Some suppressors will come with a muzzle device included so you can skip the muzzle device search in those instances.

Then thereís quality of life accessories you can get for your suppressed AR like adjustable gas blocks, vented charging handles, and heavier buffers.

Out of those an adjustable gas block is the upgrade Iíd prioritize, then heavier buffer. Your AR is likely overgassed from the factory and putting a suppressor on the end will only make things worse.

boxen
Feb 20, 2011


First off, an AR chambered in 5.56 with a can might not be as quiet as you're hoping, the bullet is still supersonic so they'll be the boom from that. It will quiet the muzzle blast, so if you're fine with that, go for it. I think you can get subsonic 5.56, but at that point you don't have much performance, 5.56x45 gets its energy from its velocity rather than the round's mass.There are other chamberings for AR's (300 Blackout, for one) that have better subsonic performance, or you can just not let that bother you and enjoy your rifle.

You very probably don't need a new muzzle device, but you'll have to take the current one off, which will take a wrench and a vise. Every 5.56 AR barrel I've ever seen was threaded 1/2x28, it's possible yours is different but it's very unlikely.

From there, you can go the direct-mount route and get a suppressor threaded to match your barrel (1/2x28, very likely), and just screw it on and you're done. This can suck because they'll tend to loosen themselves, so you need to check that periodically, you could put some threadlock on it to help that but that will make it difficult to take off. If you do this, you're basically committed to always shooting with the can on. Alternately, there are Quick Detach suppressors and mounts, in several patterns, such as KeyMo (not to be confused with keymod) and tri-lug, so pick one you like (make sure the threads match your barrel), and a matching adapter for your suppressor. For instance, if you bought a suppressor from Dead Air, makers of KeyMo stuff (some other manufacturers might make KeyMo compatible accessories), such as the Nomad, you would then buy their KeyMo adapter for that suppressor, and screw it into your suppressor instead of the direct-thread mount. Then, you'd buy a KeyMo-compatible muzzle device (of which i think there are a few), install that to your gun (using some sort of threadlock or other retaining method, since you won't need to remove it), and you can take your suppressor off and on in literally seconds with no tools.

One possible issue is that your gun might run differently (probably will) suppressed vs unsuppressed, as it creates more backpressure and therefore puts more energy back into the action through the gas tube. This makes components wear faster, makes you feel more recoil, and might blow gas in your face. You can just deal with this, or swap in something like an adjustable gas block, or an adjustable bolt carrier group. Either of those will allow you to adjust your gas system when you put the can on, and then adjust it back when you take it off.

The Bananana
May 21, 2008

This is a metaphor, a Christian allegory. The fact that I have to explain to you that Jesus is the Warthog, and the Banana is drepanocytosis is just embarrassing for you.





Ah, sorry forgot to mention, yes it's in 300 BLK.
-
Thank you both for the good info.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Nap Ghost

Yup, your options are basically

Threaded muzzle -> suppressor with compatible threads

Threaded muzzle -> muzzle device with compatible threads -> suppressor with compatible adapter

For recoil-operated pistols with tilting barrels (i.e. most of them) your suppressor will also need a booster called a Nielsen device otherwise it won't cycle. It will have an insert to match your barrel threads. You do NOT want to use a Nielsen device on a fixed barrel, as it can gently caress things up.

Most suppressors are modular, or at least let you swap out the attachment end, but if you will be switching with any frequency between say a pistol and a fixed barrel PCC they're annoying to change out, and definitely not easy to do if they're hot from firing.

Direct thread is cheapest and easiest, but slowest to attach and risks coming unscrewed. Also typically the only option for pistols.

Three-lug/tri-lug is based on the MP5 and great for fixed barrel pistol calibers, but typically not rated for rifle calibers

Surefire has a really great attachment system with an eccentric ratchet ring that locks up tightly but is easy to remove without tools.

One more note, if you use a muzzle device you might have to "time" it with shims so it's clocked correctly

Edit: ah yeah, with 300 blk you should have lots of options

Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


John DiFool posted:

Thereís two main routes for attaching a suppressor to an AR barrel: Direct thread or muzzle device.

I believe a muzzle device is generally better. Usually this will be a flash hider or brake that is compatible with the suppressor youíve chosen. I would figure out which suppressor you want and then look for muzzle devices compatible with that suppressor and your barrel thread pitch. Some suppressors will come with a muzzle device included so you can skip the muzzle device search in those instances.

Then thereís quality of life accessories you can get for your suppressed AR like adjustable gas blocks, vented charging handles, and heavier buffers.

Out of those an adjustable gas block is the upgrade Iíd prioritize, then heavier buffer. Your AR is likely overgassed from the factory and putting a suppressor on the end will only make things worse.

Also, a couple of brands (e.g., Bootleg, Gemtech) make adjustable BCGs.

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



I have questions about the 5320.20 form.

Matches seem to be returning this fall, and I have 2 of them I want to attend, but across separate states over 2 months. What do I put in the destination address box?

Just the final place I'll end up? Do I have to list each state I'll likely be driving through? Is this a thing I should email the ATF and ask about?

John DiFool
Aug 27, 2013



L0cke17 posted:

I have questions about the 5320.20 form.

Matches seem to be returning this fall, and I have 2 of them I want to attend, but across separate states over 2 months. What do I put in the destination address box?

Just the final place I'll end up? Do I have to list each state I'll likely be driving through? Is this a thing I should email the ATF and ask about?

Disclaimer: Iíve never filled out a 5320.20.

That said, my understanding is you need to file one for each state you intend to visit.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Nap Ghost

John DiFool posted:

Disclaimer: Iíve never filled out a 5320.20.

That said, my understanding is you need to file one for each state you intend to visit.

I've only filled out one (just got it back actually ), but I believe this is the case

I don't believe you need to do one for any intervening states during the trip as long as you're not taking it out/storing it there, say for a competition along the way.

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



So if I understand correctly both from here and reading more online, I file 1 form per match location I'm going to. I don't need to file a form for anywhere in between because in theory I will just be driving through those places not using the firearms there in any way.

ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

L0cke17 posted:

So if I understand correctly both from here and reading more online, I file 1 form per match location I'm going to. I don't need to file a form for anywhere in between because in theory I will just be driving through those places not using the firearms there in any way.

I think so, or at least that is what I have always done.

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


Thatís my interpretation. When I was traveling with guns, I would file a form for every place I suspected Iíd spend an entire day or more. Iíd file for most of the surrounding states, and then states where I would maybe take a class.

stgdz
Nov 3, 2006

158 grains of smiley powered justice

How much gas does the geisle charging handle remove?

The Bananana
May 21, 2008

This is a metaphor, a Christian allegory. The fact that I have to explain to you that Jesus is the Warthog, and the Banana is drepanocytosis is just embarrassing for you.





Part 2 of a 2 part Question. The prequel is in the general questions thread.
Part 2


When filling out my form 1 for an SBR, it requested the exact measurements of my SBR.

My question is, if approved and SBR'd, can I ever change the upper, (either shorter or, in my specifically desired case, longer)?

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


The Bananana posted:

Part 2 of a 2 part Question. The prequel is in the general questions thread.
Part 2


When filling out my form 1 for an SBR, it requested the exact measurements of my SBR.

My question is, if approved and SBR'd, can I ever change the upper, (either shorter or, in my specifically desired case, longer)?

Yes, you can. If it's a temporary change, no paperwork needed. If you intend it to be a permanent change, you're supposed to notify the ATF so they can update the registry.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Nap Ghost

Tyro posted:

Yes, you can. If it's a temporary change, no paperwork needed. If you intend it to be a permanent change, you're supposed to notify the ATF so they can update the registry.

Updating them is pretty easy, you can fax or email them a notification something like:

"hello this is X and I'd like to add the following configuration(s) to my SBR serial #YYYY:

Caliber 1 OAL 1
(Caliber 2 OAL 2, etc.)

regards,
Tyro"

I sent mine in with my 5320.20 travel forms so I could prove they received it, but technically you just need to notify the ATF, not actually get a response.

Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


How does it work with an SBR AR if the lower is the registered item?

Do you just register it with one of the uppers or just as the lower itself? Do you need to update the ATF with any changes since no upper + lower combo is permanent?

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Nap Ghost

Toshokan posted:

How does it work with an SBR AR if the lower is the registered item?

Do you just register it with one of the uppers or just as the lower itself? Do you need to update the ATF with any changes since no upper + lower combo is permanent?

When you do the paperwork you register the lower and there are fields to describe the configuration, which is basically caliber + barrel length + overall length.

Then if you want to have "permanent" options you can send them a letter listing all the other configurations. Otherwise just have the original upper (or one like it) with the lower in case someone wants to check your paperwork

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

Life Before Death
Strength Before Weakness
Journey Before Destination


Ordered a Nomad-LT yesterday. Because my AR-15 and AR-10 get shot so frequently that I need two cans for them.

I haven't shot either in over 6 months. Or anything else for that matter. Wtf.

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


ilkhan posted:

Ordered a Nomad-LT yesterday. Because my AR-15 and AR-10 get shot so frequently that I need two cans for them.

I haven't shot either in over 6 months. Or anything else for that matter. Wtf.

It's the curse. You're first can is multifunctional but then you get tired of swapping so you start getting more specific cans. Then you build guns for different cans too.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

Life Before Death
Strength Before Weakness
Journey Before Destination


Atticus_1354 posted:

Then you build guns for different cans too.
Have you seen my AR-22? Built specifically for my Q El Camino.

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


ilkhan posted:

Have you seen my AR-22? Built specifically for my Q El Camino.

No. Post pictures.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

Life Before Death
Strength Before Weakness
Journey Before Destination


Atticus_1354 posted:

No. Post pictures.


That's my AR-15 SBR lower, but I swapped the stock just to see how it feels vs the brace it's real lower is wearing. I'm not 100% happy with the stock, but the whole combo is rediculously lightweight and fun. 4.5" CMMG dedicated barrel/bolt, M&P15-22 mag adapter/mags, with the Q just barely poking out of the tiny 7" S-One handguard.

ilkhan fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Apr 7, 2021

Boner Wad
Nov 16, 2003


ilkhan posted:

Ordered a Nomad-LT yesterday. Because my AR-15 and AR-10 get shot so frequently that I need two cans for them.

I haven't shot either in over 6 months. Or anything else for that matter. Wtf.

Why LT vs regular? I have the regular Nomad 30 but I haven't shot it (through it?) yet.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

Life Before Death
Strength Before Weakness
Journey Before Destination


Boner Wad posted:

Why LT vs regular? I have the regular Nomad 30 but I haven't shot it (through it?) yet.
The Nomad-30 wasn't enough of a performance difference from the Sandman-S for me.

Basically my goals for this can were max suppression with about the same weight as the sandman while using the same mounts. Max suppression (-L) and minimal weight (-Ti). Goals met.

Silencershop put it on promo so I ordered. Overall the cost increase over the -L or -Ti is fairly minimal. $1100 isn't cheap, but buy once cry once, etc.

I might swap my 11.5" 5.56 barrel for a 12.5" to stay within spec if I want to shoot it on that gun, but the Nomad is going to be for the 18" 6.5CM and upcoming 16" 308 upper so probably not.

The two cans simply have complimentary roles for me.

My only nice to have that it doesn't check the box for is 338 caliber bullets. But I doubt I'll ever step up to a Lapua, so it doesn't really matter.

ilkhan fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Apr 7, 2021

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Nap Ghost

ilkhan posted:



That's my AR-15 SBR lower, but I swapped the stock just to see how it feels vs the brace it's real lower is wearing. I'm not 100% happy with the stock, but the whole combo is rediculously lightweight and fun. 4.5" CMMG dedicated barrel/bolt, M&P15-22 mag adapter/mags, with the Q just barely poking out of the tiny 7" S-One handguard.

Spaceguns own

Pitre
Jul 29, 2003



I haven't done much research on this topic yet so I'll be lazy and ask here before I dig in. I have three suppressors in my name as the manufacture. I also want to SBR my AR pistol before the ban hammer comes down on braces.

I didn't go through the trouble of setting up a trust originally like a moron because I didn't figure anyone would want them once I'm dead. Now there is interest in them if something were to happen to me. What all is involved to setup a trust with several people and then transfer these three suppressors into that? Is it going to cost $200 for stamps again for each item? Do the items have to go back in to FFL jail during the waiting period?

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


Pitre posted:

I haven't done much research on this topic yet so I'll be lazy and ask here before I dig in. I have three suppressors in my name as the manufacture. I also want to SBR my AR pistol before the ban hammer comes down on braces.

I didn't go through the trouble of setting up a trust originally like a moron because I didn't figure anyone would want them once I'm dead. Now there is interest in them if something were to happen to me. What all is involved to setup a trust with several people and then transfer these three suppressors into that? Is it going to cost $200 for stamps again for each item? Do the items have to go back in to FFL jail during the waiting period?

No FFL jail. Yes $200 stamp per item.

If you still want to go forward, I would set up the trust with just yourself as the only responsible person, then add the other people after the items are transferred to the trust. If you do it the other way around, every person will have to submit prints and paperwork to ATF. It's less of a hassle to add them after the items are in the trust.

If the only concern is people wanting them after you are dead, put them in your will and they can transfer tax free on a form 5 to your heir or whoever after you pass. The only advantages I am aware of for the trust there are that the items avoid probate, and you avoid the hassle of doing the form 5s.

John DiFool
Aug 27, 2013



Pitre posted:

I haven't done much research on this topic yet so I'll be lazy and ask here before I dig in. I have three suppressors in my name as the manufacture. I also want to SBR my AR pistol before the ban hammer comes down on braces.

I didn't go through the trouble of setting up a trust originally like a moron because I didn't figure anyone would want them once I'm dead. Now there is interest in them if something were to happen to me. What all is involved to setup a trust with several people and then transfer these three suppressors into that? Is it going to cost $200 for stamps again for each item? Do the items have to go back in to FFL jail during the waiting period?

Disclaimer: IANAL.

Setting up a trust is dead simple. Just buy one of the templates from nationalguntrusts or similar, fill it out, and get it notarized. I used silencershop for mine, but I assume any relatively major provider of these templates are OK.

Unfortunately, each NFA item will have to get a new $200 tax stamp to transfer into the trust. You will have to submit a responsible person form for each RP or trustee named in your trust. I believe you can retain possession of the items during the stamp application process, but I would check with a lawyer about that.

I would start out with just you in the trust, transfer everything in, and then add whoever else you want in the trust. Everything Iíve read indicates adding or removing responsible persons to or from the trust does not require ATF notification, so you can avoid having to submit paperwork for a bunch of people by waiting until the transfers are done. Though, again, I would consult a lawyer about that.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

Life Before Death
Strength Before Weakness
Journey Before Destination


you would absolutely hold onto the items while the stamp get processed to form 4 from personal to trust. It doesn't stay at the dealer because it's getting transferred, it stays with them because that is who currently has possession. Same if you are transferring from you to you. This is also one reason why people hesitate to buy private party, the current owner holds onto it while they have your money and wait for the stamp.

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DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Nap Ghost

Tyro posted:


If the only concern is people wanting them after you are dead, put them in your will and they can transfer tax free on a form 5 to your heir or whoever after you pass. The only advantages I am aware of for the trust there are that the items avoid probate, and you avoid the hassle of doing the form 5s.

The main advantages of a trust are that multiple people can have access to the item(s) without the owner being present and that the list of people can be changed periodically

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