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To be fair a guy in the police and or army ignoring the rules and doing what they want is treated as desirable most of the time in action shows. I can’t speak on Gotham but that in itself isn’t proof
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Jun 3, 2020 15:18
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Absurd Alhazred posted:SVU 40K There's a whole series of 40k police and crime novel's that got announced *today*. Great timing there Games Workshop. I can't imagine they are written from anyone not on side of the fascist dictatorship. Beating down people will surly work to prevent more people joining the forces of Chaos. Comstar has a new favorite as of 15:22 on Jun 3, 2020 |
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Jun 3, 2020 15:19
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Arivia posted:If I remember correctly this ties into an ongoing subplot about that university being completely horrible about all kinds of sex crimes; there's the frat house that gets shut down for gang rapes after the women's centre calls it out, then an edgy comic gets more frat boys to rape the women's center leaders protesting him (and eventually one of them seduces the comic to get back at him) and so on. It is so, so lurid and absurd. Why anyone would ever apply to the L&O universe's fake Hudson University is beyond me. Every other week it's like "Looks like there's another multiple homicide/rape/act of biological terrorism at Hudson." That school must have the most overworked PR department in the world.
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Jun 3, 2020 15:21
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Comstar posted:There's a whole series of 40k police and crime novel's that got announced *today*. Great timing there Games Workshop. I can't imagine they are written from anyone not on side of the fascist dictatorship. Beating down people will surly work to prevent more people joining the forces of Chaos. Or be taken in by a Genestealer Cult. Or any other excuse they have for why Authoritarianism Is Scientifically Necessary.
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Jun 3, 2020 15:27
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Why anyone would ever apply to Hudson University in the L&O universe is beyond me. Every other week it's like "Looks like there's another multiple homicide/rape/act of biological terrorism at Hudson." That school must have the most overworked PR department in the world. It worked a bit better in the original L&O which moved around a bit more and had more intimate, local stakes (SVU is lurid and deviant sex crimes, CI is Major Cases with big concerns or a bunch of press), so you got a better feeling for NY even in the middle of rising crime as a very big city with a lot of things going on that weren't just these specific crimes. When you get your first serial killer on L&O back in like season 4, it's not just a dude doing a bunch of killings, it's shown to have a really bad effect on Harlem as a community. In Season 2's "Heaven" you have the first mass casualty case, where an entire social club goes up in flames and 30 odd people die: the opener isn't a grim faced dedication to getting the bad man, it's the detectives rolling up and being absolutely shocked/mourning the senseless loss of so many lives. The framing is very much "these are mistakes and crimes being done against a generally good, struggling people" not "WORLD IS HELL AND NO ONE GETS OUT UNRAPED".
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Jun 3, 2020 15:28
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Why anyone would ever apply to the L&O universe's fake Hudson University is beyond me. Every other week it's like "Looks like there's another multiple homicide/rape/act of biological terrorism at Hudson." That school must have the most overworked PR department in the world. That was a joke in an episode of Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt when she considered going there. All the school advertising was pictures crime scenes and “As seen on SVU!”
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Jun 3, 2020 15:30
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Why anyone would ever apply to the L&O universe's fake Hudson University is beyond me. Every other week it's like "Looks like there's another multiple homicide/rape/act of biological terrorism at Hudson." That school must have the most overworked PR department in the world. Or at least neck and neck with Midsomer.
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Jun 3, 2020 15:36
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Jokerpilled Drudge posted:In the US, police are basically a violent street gang with the power of the state behind them. This is a narrative that is altogether absent from any depictions in any of these shows. Chicago PD does a pretty good job of portraying that, regardless of its writers' intentions. Someone said it earlier, but it really is just an hour of police brutality, with the non-cops being justifiably horrified.
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Jun 3, 2020 15:37
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Schubalts posted:Chicago PD does a pretty good job of portraying that, regardless of its writers' intentions. Someone said it earlier, but it really is just an hour of police brutality, with the non-cops being justifiably horrified. Also a Dick Wolf show, it should be noted. One of these horrible SVU university episodes is a crossover with it, in fact.
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Jun 3, 2020 15:40
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Arivia posted:Speaking of Dick Wolf and cop shows desensitizing people to cops as violent subculture: https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/dick-wolf-fires-writer-posts-1.5596271 Maybe it’s because his shows have been going on for literal decades, but I expected Dick Wolf to look much older than that.
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Jun 3, 2020 15:50
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AceOfFlames posted:Maybe it’s because his shows have been going on for literal decades, but I expected Dick Wolf to look much older than that. He’s 73. It’s all makeup and hairstyling.
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Jun 3, 2020 15:58
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Any show can’t properly show the Chicago PD without their torture blacksites
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Jun 3, 2020 16:01
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Arivia posted:He’s 73. It’s all makeup and hairstyling. Still. I think I was expecting something along the lines of late-career John Hurt or Peter Postlethwaite.
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Jun 3, 2020 16:01
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https://twitter.com/officiallivepd/status/1267517722209943552?s=21
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Jun 3, 2020 18:35
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Yikes.
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Jun 3, 2020 19:40
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Schubalts posted:Chicago PD does a pretty good job of portraying that, regardless of its writers' intentions. Someone said it earlier, but it really is just an hour of police brutality, with the non-cops being justifiably horrified. Dick doesn’t live in Chicago. Anybody famous that lives in NYC needs to kiss the cop rear end lest Bad Things Happen.
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Jun 4, 2020 17:28
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Or be taken in by a Genestealer Cult. Or any other excuse they have for why Authoritarianism Is Scientifically Necessary. I mean it's kind of a point that Authoritarianism Isn't Scientifically Necessary and that the universe wouldn't be nearly as lovely as it is if the Imperium wasn't so loving awful about everything. Like IIRC they had a guy who came out of suspended animation from the Emperor's time take one look at the Imperium and go "Wow, you guys really ruined everything with authoritarianism, huh."
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Jun 5, 2020 00:35
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Kchama posted:I mean it's kind of a point that Authoritarianism Isn't Scientifically Necessary and that the universe wouldn't be nearly as lovely as it is if the Imperium wasn't so loving awful about everything. There's a few short stories where some pre-Heresy traders or something exit a warp rift and meet the 40k people and end up getting executed for heresy because their first encounters are some flavor of "huh, that seems dumb" following by purging fire.
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Jun 5, 2020 01:44
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Kchama posted:I mean it's kind of a point that Authoritarianism Isn't Scientifically Necessary and that the universe wouldn't be nearly as lovely as it is if the Imperium wasn't so loving awful about everything. IIRC the latest storyline involves one of the Primarchs (original dozen super duper Space Marine sons of the original emperor) coming out of 10,000 years of stasis and leading the imperium to kick a bunch of demons in the teeth while privately going "Oh gently caress, oh poo poo, what's with all this gloomy hate and ignorance and ranting about heresy stuff and why is everyone worshipping my dad as a god this is literally the exact opposite of what he wanted how did these idiot's gently caress things up so much?"
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Jun 5, 2020 02:19
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Sadly it's the primarch that's the biggest dork instead of someone cool like vulkan.
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Jun 5, 2020 02:22
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:IIRC the latest storyline involves one of the Primarchs (original dozen super duper Space Marine sons of the original emperor) coming out of 10,000 years of stasis and leading the imperium to kick a bunch of demons in the teeth while privately going "Oh gently caress, oh poo poo, what's with all this gloomy hate and ignorance and ranting about heresy stuff and why is everyone worshipping my dad as a god this is literally the exact opposite of what he wanted how did these idiot's gently caress things up so much?" Think he means the same guy. Which is pretty ironic coming from one of the Emperor's Primarchs.
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Jun 5, 2020 02:22
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:IIRC the latest storyline involves one of the Primarchs (original dozen super duper Space Marine sons of the original emperor) coming out of 10,000 years of stasis and leading the imperium to kick a bunch of demons in the teeth while privately going "Oh gently caress, oh poo poo, what's with all this gloomy hate and ignorance and ranting about heresy stuff and why is everyone worshipping my dad as a god this is literally the exact opposite of what he wanted how did these idiot's gently caress things up so much?" That's been talked up a lot but it really doesn't seem like it's turning the narrative of the setting at all to me. "What are you doing with this cruel fascist religious dictatorship? You're supposed to be a cruel fascist military dictatorship!" ain't a grand message. Warhammer 40k post-Thatcher era has aged very poorly indeed.
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Jun 5, 2020 02:34
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i would personally just wish that games workshop would do a better job of curating all the content attached to their 40k IP to make sure everyone's on message while there are plenty of books that remember that the imperium is, in fact, a wretched dystopia that's doing far more harm to itself with its insane administration than to anyone else, right now the games workshop policy re: any extra material is: everything's canon in one way or another, it's just that some of it is propaganda found in-universe and other stuff leans more toward factual narratives of real events it's a very lazy, hands-off way of not having to vet your books and other supplementary material to make sure they're all staying on a point that shouldn't be too hard to stay on in the first place e: Pieces of Peace posted:That's been talked up a lot but it really doesn't seem like it's turning the narrative of the setting at all to me. "What are you doing with this cruel fascist religious dictatorship? You're supposed to be a cruel fascist military dictatorship!" ain't a grand message. i mean, the alternate take here is if an awful dictator like roboute guilliman can break down and weep over how horrible the imperium has become than perhaps the imperium is, in fact, the cruellest and bloodiest regime imaginable like it says in the taglines hard counter has a new favorite as of 03:00 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 02:50
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How is Wizards of the Coast able to sell people on these epic, multi-year, plane-spanning plotlines, in a game that involved collecting cards and then playing a game with them with other people? It's mind-boggling to me. During my brief stint with Magic when it came out, I remember thinking a few of the cards had interesting hints at story, but it was mostly about trying to get a deck to beat people. I couldn't imagine myself getting invested in this superstructure.
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Jun 5, 2020 02:57
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Absurd Alhazred posted:How is Wizards of the Coast able to sell people on these epic, multi-year, plane-spanning plotlines, in a game that involved collecting cards and then playing a game with them with other people? It's mind-boggling to me. During my brief stint with Magic when it came out, I remember thinking a few of the cards had interesting hints at story, but it was mostly about trying to get a deck to beat people. I couldn't imagine myself getting invested in this superstructure. They have been doing full world building since Ice Age nearly 25 years ago. The Tempest block began a five year story arc. Then they introduced the first of the current cast of planeswalkers and since then the sets have been "Jace, Ajani, Chandra, Liliana and Garruk visit this interesting place and meet the locals". But you can ignore it all if you want, it's just there if you want it.
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Jun 5, 2020 09:43
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Jedit posted:They have been doing full world building since Ice Age nearly 25 years ago. The Tempest block began a five year story arc. Then they introduced the first of the current cast of planeswalkers and since then the sets have been "Jace, Ajani, Chandra, Liliana and Garruk visit this interesting place and meet the locals". But you can ignore it all if you want, it's just there if you want it. There's a pretty significant difference with between the current and previous stories though. They kind of switched from the style of having the cards stand alone but also hint at the story to making the story first and the cards into supporting material. Like, the old way it felt like you could kind of piece things together by paying attention but with the new ones it feels more like the cards are sort of advertisements for the books. At least, that's the impression I got at the time.
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Jun 5, 2020 10:45
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Tiggum posted:There's a pretty significant difference with between the current and previous stories though. They kind of switched from the style of having the cards stand alone but also hint at the story to making the story first and the cards into supporting material. Like, the old way it felt like you could kind of piece things together by paying attention but with the new ones it feels more like the cards are sort of advertisements for the books. Didn't they make that mistake back in the Weatherlight saga, and it was loving awful, so they switched to the more stand-alone stuff for Torment/Mirrodin/Kamigawa era sets?
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Jun 5, 2020 11:55
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Didn't they make that mistake back in the Weatherlight saga, and it was loving awful, so they switched to the more stand-alone stuff for Torment/Mirrodin/Kamigawa era sets? The Weatherlight stuff is what I was talking about as the old way. The thing about it back then was that it felt like the books didn't even matter. The cards were the primary material and you could pick up the gist of the story from them. I guess if you really wanted to know all the details then the books also existed, but they didn't seem necessary. But after that storyline the cards just seemed to hint at stuff and it was suddenly like "if you want to know what the gently caress any of this is about, better buy the books!"
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Jun 5, 2020 12:43
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It didn't really feel like a coherent world or anything, just that there were these story elements that maybe fit together on occasion (say, if one card had effects on other cards, or if there were effects in aggregate; I remember you could get various types of Thralls and they would buff each other). But, it's, like, a competitive card game, not a role-playing game, and there weren't any mechanics to build any kind of narrative. Did they change that somehow?
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Jun 5, 2020 16:24
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Absurd Alhazred posted:It didn't really feel like a coherent world or anything, just that there were these story elements that maybe fit together on occasion (say, if one card had effects on other cards, or if there were effects in aggregate; I remember you could get various types of Thralls and they would buff each other). But, it's, like, a competitive card game, not a role-playing game, and there weren't any mechanics to build any kind of narrative. Did they change that somehow? It's more about the flavor text and card names and art telling a story, or parts of one You could make the same mechanics with no story There is definitely a stronger "setting" than Dominaria of old which was just a random mishmash of fantasy poo poo and real-world quotes
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Jun 5, 2020 16:49
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The Bloop posted:It's more about the flavor text and card names and art telling a story, or parts of one So there's no mechanics for actually generating a story or engaging with the story, then?
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Jun 5, 2020 17:16
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Absurd Alhazred posted:So there's no mechanics for actually generating a story or engaging with the story, then? Some of the cards have the MTG crown symbol behind the text to let you know "This is an important story event".
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Jun 5, 2020 17:20
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Absurd Alhazred posted:So there's no mechanics for actually generating a story or engaging with the story, then? What mechanics would there be?
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Jun 5, 2020 17:23
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War of the Spark told a lot of its story through the cards, and I thought it was pretty cool and coherent.
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Jun 5, 2020 17:28
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I mean if you are expecting any particular match to tell a story it won't beyond "two Planeswalkers dueling with magic and influence"
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Jun 5, 2020 17:30
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Ghost Leviathan posted:What mechanics would there be? I'm not sure. I think the L5R CCG had something to do with actually promoting some kind of metanarrative, or changing the framework in which you're playing based on what happened in the metanarrative, or even just actually rooting it in the structure of the world, the various clans and their interactions, etc. Let's compare things to a tabletop roleplaying campaign setting. Each individual table could just be doing a dungeon-crawl that is not particularly affected by what's going on in a big story, or any of the big factions. But if a DM wanted to they could also pivot into a bigger setting by connecting a specific artifact found in a dungeon to some big world-wide faction, like the Scarlet Brotherhood in Greyhawk, or the players could be hunted by the Spanish Inquisition in a semi-realistic Early Modern setting. It could impinge on the actual game, and it might restrict character creation based on that. Meanwhile, MtG as a game allows you to basically build any deck you want, and you win some kind of random/gambled upon card from someone's deck. I don't see how that really changes based on having a game setting or a metanarrative or anything.
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Jun 5, 2020 18:26
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No, it doesn't, and it shouldn't and no one said it did. Sets do have themes though, and new mechanics, so when you play in formats that only use the most current sets, effective decks will often be narratively cohesive anyhow Personally I like to play themed decks even when it's mildly disadvantageous because I'm not playing for money (or ante lol) but there's no rule about it. Games that tried to have clear themes are generally much more restrictive with a far higher barrier to entry (or to good deckbuilding) - Netrunner having to be between two different types of decks with entirely different cards or ST:TNG CCG having all sorts of bloat and un-fun mechanics to try to create a cogent narrative.
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Jun 5, 2020 18:45
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I'm partial to Keyforge, since it requires literally zero deckbuilding ability.
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Jun 5, 2020 18:53
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I miss the old "Tournament Packs" which have been gone since I think Champions of Kamagawa. You weren't forced to pick a themed deck to start a collection in the latest set, just let the cards give you ideas and build from there. 
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Jun 5, 2020 18:56
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The Bloop posted:No, it doesn't, and it shouldn't and no one said it did. Then I'm having a hard time understanding how people get invested in this world and in this narrative.
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Jun 5, 2020 19:16
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