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Sunswipe posted:For the cast or the audience? Yes
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Sep 8, 2020 22:53
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Sunswipe posted:For the cast or the audience? For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know, B5 lost more principal cast members by its 20th anniversary than Star Trek did by its 50th.
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Sep 8, 2020 23:43
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MariusLecter posted:Binged LEGION season 2 recently and I am dismayed at the choices made on this show. It makes a decent recovery in season 3.
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Sep 8, 2020 23:48
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legion is a great show and i'm still kind of amazed how badly people reacted to the concept that the main character of a show could be a lovely person and a bad guy, and that a show told from his perspective might've elided some things or overlooked some perspectives like he did but people have that issue with a lot of media, i find
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Sep 9, 2020 00:14
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A lot of really popular shows have lovely main characters, it’s possible legion might just be bad
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Sep 9, 2020 00:37
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Nah, it’s pretty good
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Sep 9, 2020 00:41
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Maybe they could do Babylon Five TNG or a remake. I've never seen it so I don't know how either suggestion would make sense.
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Sep 9, 2020 01:10
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Legion got really really bad. David is a rapist now, can the x-team that includes the shadowking (aka the guy who abused David his whole life and has been raping people for centuries), stop him from destroying the world? Why should I care? All these people are terrible.
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Sep 9, 2020 01:16
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well, if we're going to break out of the spoiler tags: legion is a show about a guy named david who thought he was insane and it turned out he had superpowers, on top of not being very well. the first season is about him learning what he can do and how everyone's super scared of him because he could potentially do anything (but don't worry, he's convinced himself he's a good person and he has a hard enough time dealing with the disembodied evil taking up space in his head and dealing with a relationship with syd, the first woman who's ever expressed interest in him). the second season is trying to get things to 'normal' but the evil has escaped and is trying to convince people that as soon as david realizes truly that he can do whatever he wants the world is going to go to poo poo, and then it turns out that maybe david's been doing poo poo subconsciously this entire time... including potentially having convinced his love interest to fall in love with him since episode one (since she's been otherwise written fairly clearly to have never wanted to be close to anyone in her entire life) syd realizing this and going 'yo i want my space to try to comprehend this a little better' leads david to overstep and "make her try to feel better by making her worries go away" and even though he goes back on it before doing anything even worse this obviously makes syd freak out even harder & it ends on everyone going "okay yeah maybe we do need to control him before things get apocalyptic" and it turns out david doesn't like that very much at all it's genuinely well done and a lot of people flipped out b/c they couldn't believe someone who's so nice and has constantly been saying he's a good person to himself for the entire run of the show would "suddenly" do something so bad & to those people i say 'maybe talk to some women in your life about the situations they've been put in and how they can't trust most people anymore'
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Sep 9, 2020 01:45
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flatluigi posted:well, if we're going to break out of the spoiler tags: legion is a show about a guy named david who thought he was insane and it turned out he had superpowers, on top of not being very well. the first season is about him learning what he can do and how everyone's super scared of him because he could potentially do anything (but don't worry, he's convinced himself he's a good person and he has a hard enough time dealing with the disembodied evil taking up space in his head and dealing with a relationship with syd, the first woman who's ever expressed interest in him). the second season is trying to get things to 'normal' but the evil has escaped and is trying to convince people that as soon as david realizes truly that he can do whatever he wants the world is going to go to poo poo, and then it turns out that maybe david's been doing poo poo subconsciously this entire time... including potentially having convinced his love interest to fall in love with him since episode one (since she's been otherwise written fairly clearly to have never wanted to be close to anyone in her entire life) Need to add Legion to the list with Passenger that reads completely different to each gender.
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Sep 9, 2020 02:13
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I’m starting to think TNG is the only Trek worth rewatching
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Sep 9, 2020 02:16
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I mean if you don’t find anyone likable and don’t want to watch it because of that it’s fine, you don’t have to prove anything to people online
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Sep 9, 2020 02:16
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean if you don’t find anyone likable and don’t want to watch it because of that it’s fine, you don’t have to prove anything to people online Wrong Edgar Allen Ho posted:I’m starting to think TNG is the only Trek worth rewatching WRONG
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Sep 9, 2020 02:22
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Legion Talk Except Syd was written as someone who thought relationships were impossible because of her power, then found it wasn't true. And Syd's realization that she needed space from David came after she spent hours around the shadowking and his puppet being brainwashed (they do all the music cues). Then David uses mind control to get her back (and make her have sex with him, entirely out of character for him. They try to imply that David has been using his powers on her the whole time subconsciously. This is the WORST. If he was using his power accidentally to make Syd fall in love with him then he is an "accidental rapist," which is terribly bankrupt writing, or David is a monster lying to himself in season 1, which really doesn't jive with the writing. And most monsters don't really worry about being a good person. Also, having the shadowking around to work with the "good guys," screws everything up. Anything David has done the shadowking has done for hundreds of years deliberately. Confronting David with his abuser on hand is super duper hosed. There is a lot of talent involved in Legion. But they decided to use that talent to tell the story of the amazing mentally-ill accidental mindrapist, and his abuser who's a hero now for some reason. It's gross, reinforces gross tropes, and I think you could get what they were going for without trivializing abuse. Slowpoke Rodriguez has a new favorite as of 02:52 on Sep 9, 2020 |
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Sep 9, 2020 02:43
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Slowpoke Rodriguez posted:Legion Talk Even worse: if you think about it, each of the show's 3 seasons ends with the Shadow King getting what he wants: Season 1: He manages to gain a physical body (though not David's). Season 2: He gets his original body back and manages to turn everyone against David. Season 3: He convinces his past self to leave David alone since it won't make him happy and he gets away scot-free, "joking" that in the future he and David should take over the world together. AceOfFlames has a new favorite as of 03:37 on Sep 9, 2020 |
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Sep 9, 2020 02:53
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I’m starting to think TNG is the only Trek worth rewatching I'm watching DS9 and, while some aspects have aged poorly, it's good TV.
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Sep 9, 2020 03:27
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It sounds like Legion hit the same problem Heroes had: the breakout star was the villain, so they had to keep finding ways to keep the villain around. See also: The Flash and Arrow, several times each. Fortunately they have Legends of Tomorrow for all their 'we like this actor/character, but don't have anything for them to do anymore' needs.
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Sep 9, 2020 03:28
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Cleretic posted:It sounds like Legion hit the same problem Heroes had: the breakout star was the villain, so they had to keep finding ways to keep the villain around. not in the slightest
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Sep 9, 2020 03:42
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Cleretic posted:It sounds like Legion hit the same problem Heroes had: the breakout star was the villain, so they had to keep finding ways to keep the villain around. No. The twist is that the hero was revealed to be the true villain. The primary villain was not truly introduced until the second season either.
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Sep 9, 2020 03:46
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Henchman of Santa posted:No. The twist is that the hero was revealed to be the true villain. The primary villain was not truly introduced until the second season either. to be fair i'd say "one of the villains" and it's definitely a 'nurture not nature' thing; if david had been raised differently he would've turned out much differently and certainly a lot less broken anyway this show went off the air last year and saying it aged badly is like saying the sopranos aged badly b/c the protagonists killed people sometimes; it's an intentional part of the show that you're relating to someone who turned out to not be the best person in the long run. like breaking bad.
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Sep 9, 2020 04:10
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Baba Yaga Fanboy posted:
And then the episode ends with Rachel agreeing that it is weird and they fire him.
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Sep 9, 2020 05:57
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I've watched a few choice episodes of DS9 before trying it from the start. Half of the premiere is just Sisko babbling with an alien-entity about how time works. Is there a lot of this navel-gazing in the rest of the show?
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Sep 9, 2020 10:08
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Detective No. 27 posted:Maybe they could do Babylon Five TNG or a remake. I've never seen it so I don't know how either suggestion would make sense. B5 was an internally complete narrative and something like 85 of the 110 episodes were written by one man. A sequel would be very hard to pull off - especially since the overlap between characters who survived the show and actors who are still alive is virtually nil - and a remake wouldn't have the twists. Plus there's an executive still at Warner who despises the show, which is why there hasn't been a proper HD version.
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Sep 9, 2020 10:25
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Slowpoke Rodriguez posted:If he was using his power accidentally to make Syd fall in love with him then he is an "accidental rapist," which is terribly bankrupt writing  Slowpoke Rodriguez posted:And most monsters don't really worry about being a good person.  Slowpoke Rodriguez posted:Also, having the shadowking around to work with the "good guys," screws everything up. Anything David has done the shadowking has done for hundreds of years deliberately. Confronting David with his abuser on hand is super duper hosed. Slowpoke Rodriguez posted:his abuser who's a hero now for some reason. Inspector Gesicht posted:I've watched a few choice episodes of DS9 before trying it from the start. Half of the premiere is just Sisko babbling with an alien-entity about how time works. Is there a lot of this navel-gazing in the rest of the show?
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Sep 9, 2020 10:32
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Passengers was one of the creepiest movies I've ever seen and the idea that there are men who would legitimately think that's a romantic thing to do is loving terrifying. Re: Legion, a villain opposing another villain doesn't mean either of them are good.
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Sep 9, 2020 11:19
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Inspector Gesicht posted:I've watched a few choice episodes of DS9 before trying it from the start. Half of the premiere is just Sisko babbling with an alien-entity about how time works. Is there a lot of this navel-gazing in the rest of the show? Not really, no. Though the show is concerned with matters of emotion and character, grief and pain, religion and faith, that sort of stuff.
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Sep 9, 2020 12:37
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Jedit posted:Plus there's an executive still at Warner who despises the show, which is why there hasn't been a proper HD version. Who's this twit, and why does he hate the show?
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Sep 9, 2020 13:00
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Tiggum posted:How so? If david can't control brainwashing people into loving him, its not really his fault when he does it, so that makes him an innocent abuser. Which is gross given what we know about real abusers. Brock Turner definitely doesn't worry about if he is a good person. Shadowking has never been shown to be a lesser evil. The people in season 2 who tell us david is going to destroy the world we know were brainwashed by shadowking, its not trustworthy information. Slowpoke Rodriguez has a new favorite as of 13:50 on Sep 9, 2020 |
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Sep 9, 2020 13:45
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Lesser of two evils seems like a cartoon premise I thought Legion was a more serios show
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Sep 9, 2020 13:54
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CharlestheHammer posted:Lesser of two evils seems like a cartoon premise I thought Legion was a more serios show A cartoon premise...or the freaking presidential election?!
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Sep 9, 2020 14:11
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Henchman of Santa posted:A cartoon premise...or the freaking presidential election?! American elections are basically an episode of Captain Planet so this checks out
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Sep 9, 2020 14:45
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CommissarMega posted:Who's this twit, and why does he hate the show? Somebody doxxed him a while ago, it should be easy to find with a google, not that it really matters. As to why, it's because of a bunch of internal politics at WB/PTEN. Basically if things from one group do well, then the other group does worse because reasons. The group that didn't include B5 won the power struggle so if B5 were to do well or get some attention it would give face to the other group which is absolutely unacceptable in a corporate environment. The stakes are incredibly low and the winnings are incredibly stupid but that's corporate America for you.
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Sep 9, 2020 15:55
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Incelshok Na posted:Somebody doxxed him a while ago, it should be easy to find with a google, not that it really matters. Isn't that the same sort of thing that hosed up Firefly's run on tv?
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Sep 9, 2020 16:31
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Incelshok Na posted:Somebody doxxed him a while ago, it should be easy to find with a google, not that it really matters. This is basically how all TV networks operate. A lot of good BBC stuff gets cancelled after 1 or 2 series or never gets beyond a pilot because there's a constant revolving door of executives and every one of them immediately cancels everything their predecessor commissioned because it makes them look bad if someone else's show does well.
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Sep 9, 2020 16:37
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CommissarMega posted:Who's this twit, and why does he hate the show? Anyone who's seen the show would be my guess.
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Sep 9, 2020 18:50
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Sweevo posted:This is basically how all TV networks operate. A lot of good BBC stuff gets cancelled after 1 or 2 series or never gets beyond a pilot because there's a constant revolving door of executives and every one of them immediately cancels everything their predecessor commissioned because it makes them look bad if someone else's show does well. Venture Bros is the latest casualty of this process. That's a show that has aged especially well for the era in which is was made, outside of some unfortunate insensitive trans stuff early on before they figured out exactly who all the characters were. Few shows that have been on tv for 18 years manage to stay so consistently good or to age as well. Of course, most shows that have been on tv that long have more than 7 seasons at the end of it too.
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Sep 9, 2020 20:41
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Sunswipe posted:Anyone who's seen the show would be my guess. 
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Sep 9, 2020 20:59
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There's an episode of Angel in the second season about zombie cops brutalizing people. At the end of the episode when they've been stopped Angel's cop lady friend list a bunch of crimes that stopped because of the brutal beatings like maybe this neighborhood is better off being under the iron fist of triggerhappy zombie cops? That characterization aged pretty well but I'm not sure if the writers meant it to be viewed negatively.
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Sep 10, 2020 03:16
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Slowpoke Rodriguez posted:If david can't control brainwashing people into loving him, its not really his fault when he does it, so that makes him an innocent abuser. Which is gross given what we know about real abusers. Slowpoke Rodriguez posted:Brock Turner definitely doesn't worry about if he is a good person. Slowpoke Rodriguez posted:Shadowking has never been shown to be a lesser evil. The people in season 2 who tell us david is going to destroy the world we know were brainwashed by shadowking, its not trustworthy information.
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Sep 10, 2020 06:33
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the_steve posted:Isn't that the same sort of thing that hosed up Firefly's run on tv? No, that was Firefly being garbage.
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Sep 10, 2020 11:51
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