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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:90s entertainment pretended racism and sexism were over while also revelling in awful poo poo and broke a lot of brains. That's it, yeah. Kinda same in the 00s. There's a lot of contradictions that ended up exploding in the 10s. Though oddly enough I think the 90s actually had more open acknowledgement of class and material issues than the 00s did.
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# ? May 12, 2021 07:05 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 13:24 |
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:90s entertainment pretended racism and sexism were over while also revelling in awful poo poo and broke a lot of brains. South Park.txt
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# ? May 12, 2021 07:19 |
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Thank you. Yes this is the one. Ghost Leviathan posted:Though oddly enough I think the 90s actually had more open acknowledgement of class and material issues than the 00s did. Megillah Gorilla posted:South Park.txt
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# ? May 12, 2021 07:28 |
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Megillah Gorilla posted:South Park.txt It's ironically funny that Cartman starts a character who is "unfairly" accused of hate crimes and now he's an open racist who loves Hitler and race war.
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# ? May 12, 2021 08:00 |
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Wasn't Cartman supposed to be a modern Archie Bunker?
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# ? May 12, 2021 09:56 |
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FreudianSlippers posted:Wasn't Cartman supposed to be a modern Archie Bunker? Depends what season you're talking about. I always thought he's supposed to be one of those people who "hates everyone equally."
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# ? May 12, 2021 10:02 |
reminds me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ7mJFNkLAU which tw for sexual assault
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# ? May 12, 2021 11:20 |
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FreudianSlippers posted:Wasn't Cartman supposed to be a modern Archie Bunker? At first, yeah. That was supposed to be his schtick early on, but then he got ramped up to full on Nazi and I don't think they bothered dialing him back until they started turning Mr. Garrison into Trump and let him be the blatant Nazi instead.
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# ? May 12, 2021 11:24 |
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Cartman's still a huge piece of poo poo, he just changes up his act just often enough to get away with it.
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# ? May 12, 2021 11:44 |
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Toshimo posted:If you have Cee Lo's pipes, you run with that poo poo.
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# ? May 12, 2021 11:51 |
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mind the walrus posted:Thank you. Yes this is the one. Yeah looking back, roughly 2000-2005 was a really dark time culturally where it really seemed like the right was ascendant and a lot of pop culture was catering to that, to an extent that would seem almost unthinkable today. The nationalism/jingoism coming from 9/11 was certainly part of it, but not the entire story.
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# ? May 12, 2021 13:24 |
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letthereberock posted:Yeah looking back, roughly 2000-2005 was a really dark time culturally where it really seemed like the right was ascendant and a lot of pop culture was catering to that, to an extent that would seem almost unthinkable today. The nationalism/jingoism coming from 9/11 was certainly part of it, but not the entire story. I mean a lot of it was just swallowed up and became part of culture in general. How many Calls of Duty are we on now, for instance?
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# ? May 12, 2021 13:33 |
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:Depends what season you're talking about. I always thought he's supposed to be one of those people who "hates everyone equally." They were all originally meant to be typical kids of the kind you knew at school. Stan is the normal kid with the odd parents; Kyle is the kid that you get told is different because of his religion or race or whatever but there's really nothing different about him that a kid can see; Kenny is the poor kid who you're friends with because he knows all the dirty jokes (and when you're a bit older, can steal his parents' cigarettes and his older brother's porn); and Cartman is the rear end in a top hat kid that everyone hates but he always has the best toys and video games and he'll let you play with him if you're his "friend". They've mostly stuck to those tropes, except Cartman got cranked up to 27 because the writers think it's funny to see exactly how bad he can be and still have it vaguely believable that the others will still hang out with him.
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# ? May 12, 2021 14:42 |
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Vandar posted:That song isn't nearly as bad as people act like it is. Didn't MTV and VH1 basically took a giant dump on it in the late 90s and 2000s by people too cool for it? I mean it the nature of pop culture I guess. This was popular? Oh well actually it sucks now because we as a culture are too sophisticated/want real music crowd. I admit, as someone who liked some nerdy/pop acts in the late 90s, I am highly influenced by the douciness that is late 90s nu-metal act and radio stations like WAAF that were liked by the literally worst people in my hometown.
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# ? May 12, 2021 14:59 |
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letthereberock posted:Yeah looking back, roughly 2000-2005 was a really dark time culturally where it really seemed like the right was ascendant and a lot of pop culture was catering to that, to an extent that would seem almost unthinkable today. The nationalism/jingoism coming from 9/11 was certainly part of it, but not the entire story. Something that stands out to me was a kind of edgy contrarianism in response to the (percieved) sincere, do-good atmosphere of the 90s. I was the perfect age for this era and stuff like Family Guy felt incredibly refreshing at the time because it was a rejection of what seemed like a lot of very forced, artificial narratives about cultural harmony, which is probably why a lot of the humor is via parody of media format. The 90s had a lot of (what we thought of as) very formulaic diversity, like the classic example of the group of kids in a textbook photo where one is black, one is asian, one is hispanic, one is white, and one is in a wheelchair. In the moment, it felt like we were pushing back against the artficiality (something like "everything's great, so if I say these nasty things, you can't get offended, because it's not actually hurting anyone, and if you do get offended, then you're admitting that you failed"), but in retrospect it was also just a handy frame for bullying and racism, which is what we've all kind of figured out in the past decade and change.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:10 |
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Something that stands out to me was a kind of edgy contrarianism in response to the (percieved) sincere, do-good atmosphere of the 90s. I was the perfect age for this era and stuff like Family Guy felt incredibly refreshing at the time because it was a rejection of what seemed like a lot of very forced, artificial narratives about cultural harmony, which is probably why a lot of the humor is via parody of media format. The 90s had a lot of (what we thought of as) very formulaic diversity, like the classic example of the group of kids in a textbook photo where one is black, one is asian, one is hispanic, one is white, and one is in a wheelchair. In the moment, it felt like we were pushing back against the artficiality (something like "everything's great, so if I say these nasty things, you can't get offended, because it's not actually hurting anyone, and if you do get offended, then you're admitting that you failed"), but in retrospect it was also just a handy frame for bullying and racism, which is what we've all kind of figured out in the past decade and change. I think this is basically the arc of a lot of forums posters yeah. Myself included.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:39 |
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letthereberock posted:Yeah looking back, roughly 2000-2005 was a really dark time culturally where it really seemed like the right was ascendant and a lot of pop culture was catering to that, to an extent that would seem almost unthinkable today. The nationalism/jingoism coming from 9/11 was certainly part of it, but not the entire story. honestly, i think is pretty accurate. i was looking back on those years (and the latter half of the 00s) with nostalgia goggles mainly cause i wasn't "political" back then, and since i didn't see a bunch of rightwing shitheads repeatedly tell me that juniper lee was feminist propaganda, i figured the Right didn't have as much of an imprint in media as they do now. in one sense, i guess this is probably a good thing in that gamergate probably didn't create a unique or long lasting impact as i thought, and that we just keep cycling through the same poo poo over and over again.
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# ? May 12, 2021 16:08 |
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Josef bugman posted:I mean a lot of it was just swallowed up and became part of culture in general. How many Calls of Duty are we on now, for instance? It's interesting to look at call of duty and how its general tone changed when it moved from a series about ww2 into a more contemporary setting and iirc that's because most of the people they would interview for research on the latter were still employed by the military, so they were less likely to offer a more nuanced account of their experiences.
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# ? May 12, 2021 16:12 |
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We have call of duty games now with levels that are just Benghazi with the names changed.
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# ? May 12, 2021 16:37 |
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rip Sean Smith/ vilerat. sure is weird how regressives stopped trying to get justice for him and the three other dude after 2016. also didnt Michael Bay make a Mr Ben Ghazi movie in 2016 and it aged like spoiled milk even when the it was just a 2014/15 announcement?
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# ? May 12, 2021 17:04 |
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letthereberock posted:Yeah looking back, roughly 2000-2005 was a really dark time culturally where it really seemed like the right was ascendant and a lot of pop culture was catering to that, to an extent that would seem almost unthinkable today. The nationalism/jingoism coming from 9/11 was certainly part of it, but not the entire story. https://medium.com/mammon-machine-zeal/ultraviolent-flash-games-after-9-11-b416b836f28e
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# ? May 12, 2021 17:11 |
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I get annoyed when I watch an old western and it turns out that the protagonist is a former Confederate soldier. I end up cheering for the villain most of the time. The Outlaw Josey Wales is the most recent example but there are a lot of Westerns that show Confederates in a sympathetic light. Pretty weird!
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# ? May 12, 2021 17:24 |
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Alexander Hamilton posted:I get annoyed when I watch an old western and it turns out that the protagonist is a former Confederate soldier. I end up cheering for the villain most of the time. The Outlaw Josey Wales is the most recent example but there are a lot of Westerns that show Confederates in a sympathetic light. Pretty weird! It even dates back to the silent era. For example The General was broadly based on a real story but made its hero part of the Confederacy instead of the Union.
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# ? May 12, 2021 17:35 |
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Speaking of inappropriate 80s "it's not sexual assault when it's a 16yr old boy! High five man!"... Yall may have discussed this already but to celebrate my med school graduation, my friend and I got high last night and started watching Doogie Howser, MD. I think it may be the most inappropriate show I've EVER seen on TV. https://youtu.be/dl8_HL-Pf9c Both first two episodes involve 16yr old Doogie being sexually assaulted by adult women. There's a scene where Doogie and his father hitting on the same adult doctor.... While their mom/wife is right there listening. Basically every single scene is appalling. Not to mention the "16yr old doctor" Air Bud aspect. It ran for FOUR SEASONS. That the previous generation thought this was acceptable should disqualify them from everything.
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# ? May 12, 2021 17:44 |
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I loved this poo poo out of Doogie Howser, but to be fair, I was 8 when it started airing and a lot of it flew over my head.
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# ? May 12, 2021 17:55 |
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Also, Doogie Howser came from David E. Kelley, of Picket Fences fame. :P
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# ? May 12, 2021 17:58 |
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saw an episode of gunsmoke a while back and the lovable, slow witted deputy was sympathetic to the confederacy
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# ? May 12, 2021 18:08 |
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The southern affiliates won't air it if you make them look like the bad guy.
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# ? May 12, 2021 18:20 |
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# ? May 12, 2021 18:45 |
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Alexander Hamilton posted:I get annoyed when I watch an old western and it turns out that the protagonist is a former Confederate soldier. I end up cheering for the villain most of the time. The Outlaw Josey Wales is the most recent example but there are a lot of Westerns that show Confederates in a sympathetic light. Pretty weird! I don't think it's weird, per se, in that I understand how post-war the slave states managed to spin their treachery with the lost cause lie, but it is kinda gross! I was thinking about how Mal Reynolds in Firefly is coded as a former Confed, and now I wonder if that could have eventually tied into how half of known space in that show is supposed to be Chinese but there wasn't a single Asian on his ship
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# ? May 12, 2021 18:46 |
Alexander Hamilton posted:I get annoyed when I watch an old western and it turns out that the protagonist is a former Confederate soldier. I end up cheering for the villain most of the time. The Outlaw Josey Wales is the most recent example but there are a lot of Westerns that show Confederates in a sympathetic light. Pretty weird! God, I remember an episode of The Rifleman that had Chuck Conners try and teach his son tolerance and acceptance by hiring on a shell-shocked former Confederate soldier as a farmhand, and I think even defended him from a posse of former Unionists hunting him down to settle some score. Because nothing engenders tolerance than giving aid to Confederates! I mean, I guess it depicted the guy more in a "man broken by a war he didn't believe in that will haunt him forever" kinda way instead of being some noble hero, but still, weird mixed message.
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# ? May 12, 2021 18:51 |
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bobjr posted:We have call of duty games now with levels that are just Benghazi with the names changed. There are also Call of Duty games where they take war crimes committed by the US and say "actually the Russians did this"
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# ? May 12, 2021 18:57 |
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Asterite34 posted:God, I remember an episode of The Rifleman that had Chuck Conners try and teach his son tolerance and acceptance by hiring on a shell-shocked former Confederate soldier as a farmhand, and I think even defended him from a posse of former Unionists hunting him down to settle some score. Because nothing engenders tolerance than giving aid to Confederates! you uh
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# ? May 12, 2021 18:59 |
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What the hell is this? I remember it being a show when I was a kid, but nothing specific. This is terrible.
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# ? May 12, 2021 19:00 |
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Alexander Hamilton posted:I get annoyed when I watch an old western and it turns out that the protagonist is a former Confederate soldier. I end up cheering for the villain most of the time. The Outlaw Josey Wales is the most recent example but there are a lot of Westerns that show Confederates in a sympathetic light. Pretty weird! as a quick background, historically there's a difference between first wave confederates, the idiots who joined the sedition immediately because they agreed with its wretched, underlying principles, and second wave confederates, dudes who, for their part, just wanted to stay out of the war when it started but were dragged into it when it came to their doorstep when their communities were either getting shelled by direct union attacks or raided during foraging parties by regular forces, OR irregular forces that were vaguely pro-union (there were essentially bands of lawless roving 'bushwackers' on both sides who used civil war as an excuse to loot and/or kill their neighbours in horrible, horrible acts of irregular warfare, some acts were so vile it would led many historians to describe many of those guerrilla leaders as pure psychopaths...now, i'm summarizing heaps of history quick and dirty, but there was certainly some awful, historical internecine conflict that left lasting scars in the psyches of the involved) iirc josey wales as depicted in the film was definitely second wave, being provoked into joining a separate, guerrilla army of bushwackers who would target pro-union jayhawkers (a particular band of irregular 'border ruffians' who did the raids, as in the film) and their regular military support, after one of those irregular forces slaughtered his family at the start of the film - despite what one may assume from the premise, josey wales is still depicted as having significant moral failings he must overcome, he's not a 'good' confederate sympathizer, the film rejects that notion i'm mentioning this because, in particular, the outlaw josey wales is taken as a classic example of the revisionist western genre, a genre that subverts and criticizes americana as seen in more typical westerns, by giving strong roles to women, people of colour, depicting native americans and their culture in a positive light, while also suggesting the lead protagonist may possess more of a morally ambiguous, anti-heroic nature that blurs right & wrong more than storytellers typically like, with the cumulative effect of ultimately criticizing american society and its values, and by taking the vaguely pro-confederate josey wales down this journey, the film is considered to have deeply engaged with that criticism of americana (at least for its era, i'm sure there's nothing groundbreaking about it now in 2021)
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# ? May 12, 2021 19:08 |
Casnorf posted:you uh Okay yeah the episode probably treated the subject matter with more nuance and deftness than I'm giving it credit for here, it's been a million years since I saw that episode on cable and the current topic half-jogged the hazy recollection.
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# ? May 12, 2021 19:25 |
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Shane is pretty egregious in this regard, Wilson (the black hat) is a Yankee whose worst insult is calling “Stonewall Jackson, Lee and all the rest of them rebs” trash.
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# ? May 12, 2021 19:30 |
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Asterite34 posted:Okay yeah the episode probably treated the subject matter with more nuance and deftness than I'm giving it credit for here, it's been a million years since I saw that episode on cable and the current topic half-jogged the hazy recollection.
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# ? May 12, 2021 19:46 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9ctmLwBWW0
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# ? May 12, 2021 19:56 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 13:24 |
Casnorf posted:It was more your casual dehumanization, whether the episode handled it adeptly or not. ...good point, especially when we're talking about something specifically about NOT dehumanizing people, even your former enemies, and my kinda breezy summary was in poor taste.
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# ? May 12, 2021 20:02 |