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May 8, 2021 21:29
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My mistake. You see acting like you don't understand something gives the impression that you don't understand something.
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May 8, 2021 21:37
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Captain Monkey posted:Charlesthehammer’s gimmick is arbitrarily deciding what you mean then arguing that insistently against all evidence.
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May 8, 2021 21:39
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Toshimo posted:Lauren Holly in Picket Fences (from David E. Kelley of Ally McBeal fame). I remember as a kid it had the weirdest sexual plotlines, like one where the wacky "foreign" guy from Ghostbusters 2 asked another dude to show him a place in the pit of a woman's knee that you could massage and it was basically like fingering them. I distinctly remember scenes where both of these 40-somethings basically finger-blasted their 20-something female colleagues in public at work meetings. Am I the only one who remembers how loving weird this was? And of course it was the daycare gig for Robert Downey Jr. at his nadir. But it all seems to have vanished from pop culture memory.
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May 12, 2021 05:00
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Vandar posted:That song isn't nearly as bad as people act like it is. Megillah Gorilla posted:I remember that character also had a thing for "wattles" under a woman's neck which lead to him being a massive creep to women. Oh loving lord the wattle thing. God what was it with that show? The whole thing seems like some horny late-Boomer/Gen-X fever dream. Much like the dot com era in general, come to think on it. mind the walrus has a new favorite as of 06:18 on May 12, 2021 |
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May 12, 2021 06:16
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Does anyone have that tweet or was it a tiktok where some guy rewatches a teen movie from 2004 and is all  at how skeevy it actually was?
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May 12, 2021 06:49
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Thank you. Yes this is the one. Ghost Leviathan posted:Though oddly enough I think the 90s actually had more open acknowledgement of class and material issues than the 00s did. Megillah Gorilla posted:South Park.txt
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May 12, 2021 07:28
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I was going to say my satire radar was going off like crazy. They almost completely sell it as real but something was off. I'm not sure what.
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May 12, 2021 23:25
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BrigadierSensible posted:A while back, but re: Cartman from South Park. I stopped watching South Park a literal decade ago-- as far as I'm concerned "You're getting old" is the series finale and everything after is fundamentally a spin-off-- but did Parker/Stone and their crew ever head-on acknowledge or take any responsibility for their cultural influence? I know they did a weak mea culpa for making GBS threads on Al Gore and "Manbearpig" in 2003, doing actual damage to Climate Change discourse, but have they ever copped to building their empire on the back of irl Cartmen? Or is that still a taboo too far?
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May 13, 2021 10:59
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Rockman Reserve posted:The whole reboot was surprisingly good. It was fine, but it really cast a spotlight on how important the wider cast was to Animaniacs. Everything about each individual sketch is on point, but the lack of diversity gets old fast. And then out of nowhere they take a giant poo poo on Chicken Boo + the rest of the supporting cast and it's like "ok but why though?" I'm not saying they needed to drag out the Goodfeathers or that getting Sheri Stoner back for Slappy Squirrel is a small ask but having stuff like Minerva Mink, Mindy and Buttons, Rita and Runt, etc. would have gone a really long way and coming up with original characters couldn't be that hard when you have that level of talent on-hand.
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May 14, 2021 23:33
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Ally McBeal genuinely seems like a weird cultural fever dream in hindsight. Remember when they sent Robert Downey Jr. there at the height of his drug and legal problems? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTqjjewT_KA Jesus look at how loving drugged this man is.
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Jun 10, 2021 03:11
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Mr Interweb posted:my go to is Cat from Catdog. Dog got abused too, but it was mostly directed towards Cat, and sometimes the latter's abuse was directly the result of the former. it was one of my least favorite shows growing up cause Cat just kept getting beaten up for no other reason than because a lot of people out there thought it was funny to see otherwise harmless people getting victimized. Ngl I always thought it was funny how they basically repurposed that exact dynamic for Squidward/Spongebob but when they did it was somehow comedy gold? I swear I'll never understand why Spongebob became this Juggernaut when it was indistinguishable from every other Nicktoon of its era. It's not bad, but seriously. Do you know what's aged really loving badly? Shrek and Shrek-adjacent things. Zoomers go to the mat for Shrek and get shocked when I mention that I think it's mediocre at best, but they're what marketers want to court now so in the past week we got like three separate examples of "Holding out for a Hero" in nerd poo poo and it's just like... come the gently caress on dudes. Please. No more. It's not funny. It wasn't funny the first time they did it. It's only ever been mildly amusing. Just stop it. Please.
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Jun 19, 2021 07:55
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kupachek posted:Apparently the 'neo-nazi' thing is solely because of a comment in an episode about the 'heroic' defense against the Allied powers in the war. Otherwise he is just a former East German Olympic Skier. American Dad has aged remarkably well overall though. Some real good episodes in there. Way, way better than Family Guy. Cleretic posted:I feel like the reason Spongebob managed that dynamic while something like Catdog didn't was for a couple reasons. Yes this did remind me of how ugly a lot of Nicktoons at the turn of the century were and explains a lot. Thank you. Push El Burrito posted:That's why shows like Bob's Burgers are good. The families actually care about each other and genuinely want to be together. I don't find Bob's Burgers funny or amusing but drat, they are wholesome.
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Jun 19, 2021 17:12
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Vandar posted:
CharlestheHammer posted:Yeah I stopped watching American dad a bit ago but Claus was a Nazi was always pretty obvious. Maybe that changed but it was a thing for a long time.
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Jun 19, 2021 23:29
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I'm suddenly reminded of Stephen King 50s/80s bullies and how they're always pulling literal switchblades and seriously physically harming the kids, and that would explain a lot-- Boomers only recognizing bullying as hardcore physical abuse is very on-brand for them.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:11
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I have a feeling that stuff is historically accurate for the 1950s, at least for the kind of place where King grew up. That and the wild cartoonish racism with 10,000 exotic slurs I’ve never seen anywhere else. Oh yeah I wasn't disputing the accuracy at all, just noting that it would explain a lot for why Boomers were genuinely blind to things like verbal/emotional abuse until the violence in schools got toned down a few notches. Plethora posted:Even well into the 90's violence of all kinds was just shrugged off in school. I genuinely have no idea what the line was that would get attention from the teachers. One time a heavily bullied kid shot himself on the steps of the school close to mine, where they found his body on the front doorstep the following morning. I remember a boomer teacher of mine saying, "That's God's way of weeding out the weak ones." This is an awkward time to remind you that the Eugenics movement and a lot of the "Social Darwinism" nonsense that the Nazis loved was homegrown American horseshit.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:58
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Phylodox posted:Yeah, speaking of…I’m actually reading Mr. Mercedes right now and…woof. Another staple of Mr. King’s works that don’t sit well at all are his constant attempts at “good” racism. Every likeable black character seems to have to happily engage in ironic, self-deprecating slurs and horrible attempts at outdated patois. It’s honestly difficult to read now. and that poo poo was published in 2014 goddamn
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Jun 21, 2021 03:36
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BioEnchanted posted:The reason it's distinctly UK is that the organisation to help mentally and physically disabled people used to be called the "Spastic Society" in the UK - however, spastic of course started to be used as a slur like all those terms do, so they renamed it Scope. Now it's been called that ever since and spastic has gone completely out of fashion because of what it was turned into. "Retarded" was ultimately on that track too but thanks to the dipshits running Rick and Morty literally stopping their show midstream to talk about how awful it is to label retardation a pejorative (and that it's the fault of "powerful people") basically an entire generation of edgy teens see it as loaded and live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOBoKxEcVAA The real irony here is that Harmon is out as on the spectrum, if Roiland isn't then I'm a monkey's uncle, and they've even gone so far as to imply the character Rick is too. I know that later episodes of this cartoon have tried to gently backpedal empowering the absolute worst types of dudes, but this one in-particular has aged really really badly.
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Jun 23, 2021 22:36
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Sunswipe posted:As with most things, it was probably funnier when The Venture Bros did it. Never watched R&M, but I think it's a safe bet. I think the Venture Bros. got a lot worse when they moved out of general Gen X Adventure Media ephemera into actually trying to be full-on superhero.
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Jun 24, 2021 18:25
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Bob's Burgers is cute but also has that Everybody Love Raymond thing where it just feels like a couch cushion fart come to life. It's a show that's way easier to admire than actually like.
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Jun 24, 2021 18:50
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bunnyofdoom posted:All I remember is that Lisa Kudrow is also on it as Phoebe's amoral twin sister Phoebe is amoral as poo poo iirc. Lived on the street, beat people with pipes, dealt drugs, very probably murdered a few people. Not even subtext this is poo poo the character just throws in as asides throughout the run.
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Jun 26, 2021 02:59
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"Babe, tell me I'm good" is the best part of that. Detective No. 27 posted:I'm pretty sure Simpsons has younger writers these days. Every once in a while I'll see a Twitter post of someone saying they finally got to achieve their lifelong dream of writing for The Simpsons. It seems that the show is more resume padding than anything now. And yeah it's sort-of just "known" that after the initial wave of Harvard dudes moved on, the people who came in were outside that once-in-a-generation bubble and more traditional entertainment industry types who were looking for the prestige/paycheck of a juggernaut franchise. I actually met a relative of Ian Maxtone-Graham (aka "One of the worst ones of all time" or WOAT) and they said "Oh yeah he's one of those guys who always dresses in three piece suits regardless of the occasion." If you know the types of schlubby/dorky-rear end Ivy League boys that made up the Golden Years, then even though there's no real proof there should be a kind-of "click" as to why the show suddenly became a weird diluted version of itself and by now the show likely is just a sort-of minor ring you can collect if you're good enough to work your way through Hollywood.
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Jun 26, 2021 14:04
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Captain Fargle posted:Considering James Bond actually, literally rapes a woman on screen on Goldfinger I'd definitely say so. He pulls that poo poo in one of the Craig flicks too, although the Craig flicks at least glanced at the idea that Bond is a miserable piece of human refuse and acknowledged his colossal arrogance in Skyfall. Alan Moore deserves a lot of poo poo for some of his own media aging-- Nukeface in Swamp Thing reads as "not the demon to fight right now dude" with hindsight, he used sexual assault as a plot device his work to the point where it became a trope many worse writers thought was a normal thing to do to add "adult" bonafides to their garbage and he was using it well into the 2010s, his "dirty old man with attractive young twenty-something" fetish shows up in multiple works, and he's always had a general inability to write non-white characters without resorting to stereotype-- but one thing that has aged beautifully was his depiction of James Bond in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Spoilers follow for a 3 year-old comic none of you read. Moore's Bond is an irredeemable piece of amateur dogshit whose only real assets are being pretty and born with a silver spoon in his mouth. In the final volume released in 2018 he's a main antagonist, having been given control of MI5 after Emma Peel hosed off with the main characters to become immortal from a magic pool in Africa that's a reference to some British fiction I've never heard of. Everything in LOEG is rooted in British pop ephemera you've never heard of. It's like a Boomer Weetabix version of Ready Player One. Anyway in-between a whole host of other nonsensical bullshit involving British superheroes you've never heard of, we're given black and white interstitial comics showing Bond and his team of J1-6 + Reserves (e.g: all the adaptation versions of Bond) going to the Immortality cave, using it, and nuking it because Bond is a classic British imperialist who sees everything in existence as his toybox that no one else can have:       This culminates with Bond finding and nuking "The Blazing World"  But the beautiful part is that while Bond excels in his very narrow lane of self-indulgence, for all of his build-up once he actually crosses paths with the main characters it's exactly like every other depiction of him in the field-- outclassed and chumped instantly by someone who sees right through every bit of his bullshit:   Petty? Yes. But still satisfying.
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Jun 27, 2021 05:25
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packetmantis posted:That comic is really disturbing! AceOfFlames posted:Edit: one thing that hasn’t aged well in that sequence however is the most sympathetic J series being Dr. Noah / Jimmy Bond from the 1967 Casino Royale, played by… Woody Allen. Even though in that film he turned out to be the villain. Also it was written in 2018, so Moore should definitely have been aware of what a monster Woody Allen is. the_steve posted:Yeah, in LOEG, EVERYTHING happens. Which means that during the 80s (at least), Big Brother was a thing in the comics. And in the books Big Brother did happen but in the 1940s, pretty sure as an opportunistic party that took control immediately after WWII (which was started by Charlie Chaplin's Hinkel from the Great Dictator; seriously). The characters in the 50s basically refer to it as a brief period of national madness that they'd all rather pretend they hadn't gone along with to one degree or another. Moore also writes a small comic strip aside featuring a Tijuana Bible starring proles loving on the assembly line speaking only in Newspeak, because of course he does.
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Jun 27, 2021 15:21
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Legally? The Trade Paperbacks are still in print and available through normal online shops like Amazon, running an average of around $15 a piece if you're in the US. Just uh, I'm not kidding about disturbing content. When the book goes hard it goes really hard.
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Jun 27, 2021 15:37
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I remember having all those same thoughts when I first saw the movie in 2008 and the guy introducing it to us was so self-impressed about the old German Guy being a Holocaust victim as proof of the film's latent depth.
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Jun 27, 2021 18:18
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I quit reading Moore after Lost Girls, which is basically League of Extraordinary Gentlemen but explicitly pornography and nothing else.
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Jun 27, 2021 23:49
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marshmallow creep posted:Visions of my cousin discovering Legend of the Overfiend in the kids section at Blockbuster, taking it to the front counter and making them watch it so they would put it in the correct section. As I recall, the guy humored her and went to the backroom and came back with a thousand yard stare after a few minutes. He then took it to a different section. This poo poo used to hit so much harder before the proliferation of streaming video on the internet. At least I assume so. Do kids still blindlink each other to traumatic porn like goons did in the 00s?
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Jun 28, 2021 01:37
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I mean, say it without enough cutting and wit and a lot of people will believe it, so
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Jun 28, 2021 05:07
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The bottom line is framing matters, and broken dudes from poo poo homes are always going to latch onto whatever they perceive as the most butch, domineering, "alpha" presentation. Rick ranting about the sauce has him literally towering over Morty claiming victory, and the actual context doesn't mean poo poo because lizard brain sees strong man. It's the same way CHUDs and NeoNazis loving love American History X and Rage Against the Machine despite both of those things explicitly hating everything about them-- all they know is that the media is aggressive, loud, masculine, and "badass" so they use it uncritically and without shame. Like you really need to go very far out of your way to humiliate a character before dudebros will give up the aesthetic. It's not enough to show the Joker as pathetic, you'd actually have to show him getting pegged by another dude wearing a Batman mask before fans would stop idolizing him. Rick can't just be shown loving up relative to a Namor pastiche gyrating at the camera, he's gonna have to have Morty literally kick him in the balls and make him eat his own poo poo while he cries or something before fans stop taking the wrong beats from him. Audiences just can't understand anything more complex than the most basic power dynamics.
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Jun 28, 2021 23:08
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CelticPredator posted:This first seasons episode they set it up and have the antagonists just rip everything out of him in one swoop and it’s a pretty good gag. Yeah it's clear the writers are trying, but they still can't bring themselves to humiliate the character in a way so explicit that even the idiot nazi boys in the back will get it. MariusLecter posted:We get it, you turn your brain off and Media can have multiple appeals, and one consistent appeal of animation is fluidity of movement and sequence in a space where all sets cost roughly the same to construct and the camera can go anywhere. The animators clearly have fun with Rick's science weaponry and part of the show's appeal has always been watching him groove on his own power. Again-- problem with framing when the writing also wants to portray this guy as an emotionally broken loser, because lizard brain sees strong man. Same way Venture Bros. is a character study of late Boomer and Gen X manchildren, but also a showcase for Brock Sampson and whomever to cut loose. Superjail's entire appeal was watching the animators cut a tear at the expense of any sort of logical or narrative cohesion. It's not a problem to point out that dissonance in a cartoon where part of the appeal is fundamentally at odds with the writing but also not a problem to say "yeah I know but I enjoy those parts in isolate." I enjoy those parts in isolate too, even if I think "man the show really can't commit to its own vision of Rick as a loser" while it happens. Ghost Leviathan posted:The most fun part has been telling people about Namor. Mr Nimbus is, if anything, toned WAY down.
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Jun 29, 2021 11:59
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The United States posted:I mean it was right after Lord of the Rings so of course they did
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Jul 1, 2021 15:47
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Captain Monkey posted:Fictional geography doesn’t need to be consistent. 
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Jul 1, 2021 16:46
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Crespolini posted:Nope. If there can be dragons, then the castle can also be located just outside of London.
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Jul 1, 2021 17:01
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CharlestheHammer posted:I fail to see how it’s different other than you just don’t want to be associated with those two despite doing the same thing CinemaSins' style of criticism builds a brand around critical analysis wherein the highest level of analysis is fealty to "realism." The more "real" you find a movie, the better it is. Problems within a movie can thus be literally quantified, and said counter is a literal metric of any film's overall quality. This is both a limited and frankly adolescent way to approach critical analysis of anything. Now there are lots of people who will rightly point out that CinemaSins is a goofy YouTube show (it is) and not intended to be taken as legitimate criticism (despite never resisting or qualifying that label in meaningful fashion), and I'm not going to debate that. In the end CinemaSins is the natural outgrowth when generations of adolescents and adults grow up under English courses where "The curtains are blue because they symbolize depression" and fail to break through into understanding that critical analysis is not about ascertaining a binary "good or bad" even though we often refer to works as such in casual conversation. Ultimately media can be judged on a wide variety of axis, and understanding that variety is key to getting the most out of what we consume, including the bad stuff. If CinemaSins were more open and willing to grow with this process, it might be more well-regarded instead of being used as shorthand for "lazy, bad faith critique" in the 2020s. That said... Recognizing that elements of a movie can strain or even break verisimilitude-- the ability of the audience to buy into a fictional reality of any kind-- can in-fact be valid personal critical appraisal, and exists on a gradient of context that can be cited as valid personal criticism. Like I just said media can be judged on a wide variety of metrics, and both fealty to realism and verisimilitude are valid ones to use. A modern classic example would be the Fridge scene in "Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull" wherein the hero survives a point-blank nuclear detonation by hiding inside of a lead-lined refrigerator which is sent airborne at least a full kilometer before landing with him safely. This is often cited as the worst example of the film in terms of realism, which may seem a very odd criticism in a franchise that routinely featured literal religious magic and a similar scene where a raft falls several stories in the air with all of its occupants remaining safe and sound. Why care about "realism" now? The CinemaSins approach is to take this fridge and say "The Fridge sucked, therefore the movie sucks." This is a stupid argument and should be mocked. However there is an argument, and a valid one, that the Fridge may be the-- no pun intended-- crystalizing moment that the film went too far in straining its credulity. Up to this point in the film the presentation has been noticeably aged from prior Indiana Jones features due to a 15 or so year gap between productions. Filmmaking styles and sensibilities have changed. There is much more CGI. Indiana Jones is noticeably kinder in his violence. The Nazis have been replaced with USSR soldiers as militant antagonists. The MacGuffin is more noticeably in the realm of science fiction than religious mysticism. The actors are much more aged and their delivery through the characters is different. A young Shia LeBeouff has been poised as Indiana Jones' son and eventual heir. These are all elements that mark "Crystal Skull" as very tonally different from the prior three movies, making it fight uphill for audience investment-- especially if they fondly remembered the earlier pictures-- and then right at one of the action crescendos midway the Fridge scene occurs. That may indeed be the event horizon from which the movie fails to recover for many people, and it's valid if they say as such... it's just not valid when they try to shorthand all of the elements above or try to cite "realism" as the defense, even if writing all this out marks me as a massive dork who deserves a swirly. The same criticism, but one is ultimately more valid than the other because of context and qualification (as in literally providing that context when rendering judgment). Circle it back to the original argument-- Reign of Fire was weaker for that one poster because the geography of its England is massively altered from the real world. Some people said that's equivalent to "The Fridge sucked, therefore the movie sucks" to again use shorthand. It was implied that such an argument is bullshit because movies are inherently fictional, the one in question called "Reign of Fire" features dragons, therefore adherence to any realistic geography should have been long discarded and the fault is on the viewer and not the work in question. I was saying that's bullshit, because context matters, and that one poster shouldn't get dismissed for not liking the geography. Why? What makes the difference? First let's examine why film geography would even matter. Geography realism is one of the most frequently broken rules in all of moviemaking. Jurassic Park famously has an action sequence that makes no geographic sense. The Shining's hotel geography was deliberately made impossible to disquiet the audience. Continuity of geography is broken in film so often it's usually not worth mentioning unless you're being a pedantic CinemaSins goober who only measures film quality on an axis of "realistic" to "terrible." But, there is an exception which is when you personally know the geography being portrayed. This usually only manifests on a national scale or above, or a very local scale. It is a personal criticism to make, but it is a valid one. A good example is Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen. In it the characters say they need to travel from the US to Egypt, and we jump to the next scene where the characters are in Egypt and at the famous Pyramids, and both the editing and narrative indicate this was near-instantaneous. Now even ignoring finer details like where the Pyramids are in relation to Greater Cairo, the fact that the characters managed to essentially warp halfway around the world can be a moment that breaks verisimilitude. Why that and not the conceit of giant robots? Because most audiences know how long it takes even under the fastest technology to travel across the world, and giant robots are a conceit the films already takes pains to ask the audience to accept as exceptional fiction. What CinemaSins and its ilk often fail to articulate or even grasp is that when a narrative is good-- the audience doesn't care. The audience might still notice, but the incongruity is much more acceptable. Examples? It's harder to find geography examples on-hand but let's use the most common examples of "broken physics." See the earlier Indiana Jones movies which pulls dumb physics breaks just like Crystal Skull, but the narrative is strong enough audiences doesn't mind. The first Iron Man movie features two full sequences that have Tony Stark surviving massive falls from a great height, but the audience lets the inconsistency go because we really like Iron Man. The better the story being told, the more elasticity the outlandish elements can have (although it's not a mathematical input/output formula where x good narrative earns y level of inconsistencies, for gently caress's sake please stop trying to boil it all down to binary reasoning). Which brings us back to geography we personally know. When you know the local geography, seeing it broken can also break your engagement with a movie even when you might otherwise like it. When a movie set in the US shows someone going from New York to Texas on the same day without any explanation, it raises an eyebrow, even if it is a minor critique because the rest of the movie may in-fact be Smurfs 4.5: A Smurf in Time or whatever. It's a valid problem to cite geography inconsistency as breaking your personal investment, even if it's ultimately a matter of personal context and not some CinemaSins "ding." And that was what that one poster was doing-- "I know England and seeing its geography broken further took me out of an already outlandish movie." Valid criticism to have. Hope that clears it up a little. AceOfFlames posted:That does sound better than what we got, ngl
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Jul 1, 2021 20:22
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BrigadierSensible posted:This is not a popular take. But I kinda liked Aliens vs Predator 1. Prey is legit. Predators and AvP1 get too much poo poo but they both suffer from that 00s decade-long problem of being too diet-80s for their own good. It's like watching someone in the kitchen whipping up a cake and all the ingredients are right there, but then they go to grab the "non-fat" butter and milk and "trans-fat free" eggs and "sugar-free" frosting because they saw a thing on Oprah/Dr. Oz about eating healthier and nothing you say can convince them it's the wrong choice for this product. So it's still a cake, and a pretty drat well-made cake, but the taste is just off enough that you can see why no one bothered with a second slice. The Predator is just downright embarrassing. I feel bad for just about everyone involved in that pile. And not to tangent too hard from Predator stuff, but some kid pointed out that "The Good Doctor" is somehow still on TV and running and I'm just like shocked. That show combines two of the worst autism stereotypes-- cognitively feeble and savant syndrome-- in a way that I do think does genuine harm.
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Aug 7, 2022 20:56
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Just watch the Civvie 11 recap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngbwe1amOlk
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Aug 8, 2022 04:18
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Perestroika posted:Speaking of, when I rewatched it a while back it struck me just how prevalent the fear of crime was in the (white) cultural US psyche at the time. So many movies around that time had the premise that some time soon the US would become a wild wasteland of unrestricted gang warfare.
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Aug 8, 2022 12:28
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SCheeseman posted:The faux irony that pervades much of shows like South Park hasn't aged well but Tropic Thunder wasn't that, it draws a direct line between the exploitation and simplification of the differently abled and the industry's history with blackface. The film is overtly about Hollywood's hypocrisy and exploitation from multiple angles, it's supposed to be a bit uncomfortable at times. Vandar posted:Lmao Dragnet.
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Sep 24, 2022 14:22
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Mooseontheloose posted:At last L&O occasionally has the humility to go after police or show that the NYPD can be really hosed up. Blue Bloods is literally the cops can do no wrong and should actually be in charge of everything.
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Sep 25, 2022 16:15
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