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Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Okay, here's another one from Sex and the City that requires some setup. Everyone's familiar with Sex and the City in general right? Four white women basically sleeping, boozing, and living an independent life amidst the lights of New York. It was super popular and tuned into a lot of culture at the time, so a lot of celebrity appearances and parts were involved. Someone mentioned Donald Trump earlier, and that was par for the course - celebrities showing up as themselves, or sometimes in guest parts, but being a major part of the show. I watched it in like the late 2000s so after it had ended but before the second, wretched, movie.

So in Season 3, the main cast head to Hollywood for a vacation to get all that glitz and glamour instead. At a bar, Carrie (Sarah Jessica Parker) gets picked up by Vince Vaughn and they have a fling. Okay, cool. Nothing the show hasn't done before. It was a surprisingly drama-free plotline, but that's okay. Vince wines and dines Carrie as only a hollywood star can - all the best restaurants, elaborate gifts, a huge pad. They fall asleep in each others arms after having sex - and get woken up by Carrie Fisher, who's shouting at Vince, her assistant, for bringing a random girl home to her house. See, it turns out the actual plotline is that Vince is supposed to be Carrie Fisher's assistant but is misusing her celebrity and money to sleep around, including with Carrie. But between the time the episode was shot and the time I watched it, Vince Vaughn blew up from everyday kind of schlub who didn't stick out at all and made sense as an assistant to Vince Vaughn the everyday kind of schlub who's also a Hollywood A-lister himself. There were signs that Vince's character was playing beyond his means, but I totally missed the signs and the drama because it was loving Vince Vaughn, of course he can get a table at Spago or whatever.

So yeah. In the course of like 5 years this episode went from meh to completely incomprehensible just because one of its cast members became famous.

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Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



OldTennisCourt posted:

I can't loving stand those stupid "HEY YOU KNOW THIS CARTOON? LEMMEE TELL YOU HOW IT'S REALLY ABOUT DEAD KIDS/KID IN A COMA/DEMONS/HELL." It's the laziest poo poo in the world.

It's true for Sesame Street by way of John Munch, so why can't it be true for other shows?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



If we see John Munch when we die, who does Richard Belzer see?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Volcott posted:

Fade to black, executive producer dick wolf.

Incredible.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Zamboni_Rodeo posted:

Oh, sur-- wait, what?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Munch
https://thetommywestphall.wordpress.com/about/

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Krispy Kareem posted:

Or if you're transgender you obviously had gender reassignment surgery. If not you're just a cross dresser.

It's a complex subject so I can't really fault a sitcom that can't even manage multifaceted or realistic straight characters, but if you don't know a trans individual - learning about them on TV is very weird.

The whole trans is a place you go after you are super super gay is confusing as hell too.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



DesperateDan posted:

That film could have really done with pretty much anyone but cruise in the lead role, and an ending that wasn't the inevitable 9/11 based hoorah stuff.



I would love to see a fullbore attempt at recreating the original book version, it's a fantastic read

The best adaptation of War of the Worlds is the Jeff Wayne one. After Welles, of course.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



bitterandtwisted posted:

Yeah, TWotW just feels so... modern? The pacing and characters and elements of action and horror don't read like something I'd expect from the late 19th century.

I think it would be hard to do a new adaption not set in present day America. as the core premise of the story is humanity's greatest ever superpower being hopelessly outmatched by an alien force.
I'd be interested in a Victorian England version for sure, but if the aliens took casualties from pre-WW1 artillery and battleships it would probably diminish their threat to a modern audience.

You could do a Cold War version like the Iron Giant, but then you're just doing the Iron Giant with less .

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Krispy Kareem posted:

That's the problem, you can't wait until the end to swap out characters. By then you're already winding down. Like when Scrubs replaced everyone except Turk.

It also helps if the characters aren't driving the show. No one really cared what Lenny Briscoe's sex life was like because the crimes drove the storyline. There was lots of drama with E.R.'s characters, but in the end they were mostly interchangeable and helicopters could fall on people and you'd just bring in someone new.

The one season where original Law & Order does an ongoing plot line it gets very bad. Briscoe hires a hitman to kill his daughter's murderer, Curtis is about to quit the force to help care for his wife, Van Buren is about to get fired, McCoy is getting disbarred, Ross is leaving the DA's office because she can't cover for McCoy any more, and Schiff is about to lose an election. The next season, none of that sticks except Ross leaving. It just all gets forgotten over how bad it was.

L&O is also an example that replacing characters can work. Some of the show's best seasons are the last three, which only share two characters (McCoy and Van Buren) with the above from a decade earlier.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Gaunab posted:

I'm prepared to debate you on that.

You really didn't like Cutter, the even crazier Jack? And Jeremy Sisto and Anthony Anderson were a good detective pair. Not the best (that's Briscoe and your pick of Logan or Green) but good. Cases weren't a boring morass, ripped from the headlines was recognizable without being stupidly over the top, good themes. Maybe not the best season period, but good ones in general.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Gaunab posted:

My main problem with those seasons is that I thought they could have shaken things up more but that's a personal issue at the end of the day. Also it's funny you complained about the more character focused stories since the last seasons had Jack and the Governor story and Van Buren having cancer.

I don't mind the more personal stories honestly. I just jumped in to show how silly that one season ending is in response.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Calaveron posted:

Hachi Machi in this episode of Malcolm in the Middle Lois and a random lady basically have this awful violent car crash war in the middle of a mall parking lot. They just viciously rear end and t bone each other over and over again and it's all for giggles

That sounds wonderful and shouldn't have had any aging problems. Is there something else to it?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



You know what aged well? The Red Green Show. I watched a couple episodes from the first season the other day and they're still as charming as ever. I'm sure there's some episode where Harold gets a flip phone or something, but the central sketch comedy skeleton holds up just fine.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Krispy Wafer posted:

Is age of consent a relatively recent thing? I mean you hear about poo poo going on with celebrities and rock stars in the 1970's and there's no way that was isolated to the rich and famous.

I feel like Baby Boomers and the Greatest Generation retro-conned a lot of terrible stuff to make the past look more Ozzie and Harriet. Lolita was titillating because the title character was 12, which is as young as you can get and have her still be a woman. Would anyone have even cared if she was 14?

Lolita wasn't meant to be titillating at all. It was meant to be horrifying.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



It’s a great book, but it’s not meant to be uncritically sexy. Nabokov is a great writer who enjoys playing with the reader so I can see someone getting turned on - but his point is that you then need to take a cold drink of water and think for a very long time about how hosed up that is she’s only twelve you lech

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



The Bloop posted:

Seek help immediately if pronunciation variability makes you suicidal.

I did but they kept wanting to “institutionalise” me so I had to kill them.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Inescapable Duck posted:

It's funny how hating the military-industrial complex has become pretty much the default position for anyone not an extremely vocal Trump supporter or corporate America.

Inside of a year that panel has gone from out of touch to noxiously offensive corporate propaganda.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Pastry of the Year posted:

I love Elwood very, very much

see my post in the Unpopular Opinion thread

but the man isn't right in the head.

--rupi kaur

Help the threads are crossing. Someone give me the emergency gelatin mold.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



John Murdoch posted:

You sure are eager for a new outlet ever since you got owned in the internet critics thread, huh.

Bibs’ posting is bad enough he got banned from the World of Warcraft story thread recently. WoW’s story is just two kids smashing action figures together.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Roseanne also gave Mark Rosewater his big start, which is just funny.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Beachcomber posted:

Not his best work, but I'll always remember he was in this:



PYST complete with musical number

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Davros1 posted:

My only problem with Holt is sometimes I get the feeling they've written the character in such a way that they can use it as an excuse not to show him and his husband exchanging any physical affection.

I read an interview with Andre Braugher about B99 and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s his request, not the writers. He’s just very loyal to his wife is all. It’s not a show with a lot of direct physical affection anyway.

That episode in the first season where Jake meets his homophobic crime reporter idol really sells Holt’s sexuality as a part of his character. Jake fucks up as a cop and is treated as a cop, even though he’s defending Holt.

And then the other extreme is Rosa telling Holt he needs to bone. Great show.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Wheat Loaf posted:

Wow. I just looked it up and American Beauty won five Oscars. The only thing that stopped it from getting the "Big Five" clean sweep was that Annette Bening didn't win Best Actress (lost to Hilary Swank in Boys Don't Cry).

What was Thora Birch’s role in that movie anyway? I thought it was something about Spacey as an older man seducing his daughter’s friend or whatever.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



SEX BURRITO posted:

Ally McBeal has always been dated. Both the bosses were horrible sexual harassers, and there’s no way even in the 90s that they’d get away with that poo poo. The non-white characters were stereotypes, from scary Asian sex lady to sassy black best friend. There was always some ridiculous morality message in each case. Honestly, if the show didn’t have that 90s look and the short skirts it could have been made decades before.

Here's the absolutely crazy thing: Lucy Liu's role was a watershed moment in representing Asian women on television. It was actually progressive

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



And yet people thought and somewhat still think Seinfeld’s characters were good people.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Solice Kirsk posted:

I don't remember Frasier ever being belittling of trans people. Or gay people.

You must never have watched Frasier then. It wasn’t super pointed, but it was there.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



SEX BURRITO posted:

Yes, and then the two of them got married in the sequel movie. And Liza Minelli did the ceremony. Because, GAYS!

This was 2010, not some misguided episode from the mid 90s.

Don’t forget SatC was written, directed and produced by gay men. They did that FOR THEMSELVES.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:

It's "the noodle incident" she had already developed such a profile in people's minds that nothing the writers could come up with could possibly compare to our imagination of her.

Today you just hire Aubrey Plaza.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Inescapable Duck posted:

Weird thought, maybe not related; I'm suddenly picturing Jadzia Dax as Roz from Frasier in space. Who needs extra boobs when you have extra brains?

So her character in Becker?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Gaunab posted:

Is the goth lady still on NCIS? She's got to be almost fifty now. I caught the end of an NCIS: Los Angeles episode the other day where she guest starred and was captured by a serial killer. The killer had her tied up and said something like "Now I'll add a late 20s female to my collection!"

Just looked it up. She’s 48 and is leaving NCIS after this season; probably wanted to do a more age-appropriate role.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Billy Gnosis posted:

Patrick Stewart isn't actually bald.

Yes he is? There's test shots from TNG casting of him with a toupee on even and it looks incredibly stupid.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



ryonguy posted:

I know these are a series of joke posts but I believe this to be true.

No, it's true. His toupee was named George, from what I remember. Roddenberry was all "IN THE FUTURE THEY WILL HAVE SOLVED BALDNESS" and everything.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



fartknocker posted:

Ion only shows like seasons 12 or 13 and everything after that. WE TV, however, also does large blocks of the original series a few times a week and they show everything prior to that, maybe with one season of overlap, but not past season 13 or so.

Law & Order: The only show large enough to syndicate in two separate blocks.

tactlessbastard posted:

Speaking of old Law & Order, am I the only one who liked Stone way more than McCoy?

Nah, they're very different EADAs. McCoy and Cutter's antics are entertaining but Stone's strong, unshakable beliefs really help get the show going. "American Dream" is a top 10 episode for sure, and that's all Stone.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



bamhand posted:

I mean like in movies and TV shows. No one bats an eye. And honestly the actual police in the US have tazed people strapped to a chair to death. It was refreshing seeing police with some basic dignity.

Chris Noth’s character in Law & Order got fired and sent to cop purgatory for punching a suspect. Suspect deserved it, he was gleeful as poo poo about getting away with a homophobic hate crime, but it had consequences.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011




Don’t forget Chris Meloni made his mark as an actual prison rapist on Oz.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Strom Cuzewon posted:

They didn't know who/what Head Six was when they started. Just kept dropping crazier and crazier hints whilst they made it up on the spot. Same with the Daniel subplot, which they introduced because the writers can't do basic loving arithmetic.

I liked the entirety of BSG but there's no denying the ending would have made a lot more sense if the fan-theory that Starbuck was Daniel's daughter was true.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



Mammal Sauce posted:

MASH needed a soundtrack, though, so you could figure out what you were supposed to laugh at since it was painfully unfunny.

We have found him: the world’s dumbest man.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



sassassin posted:

Even Andy Samberg's vastly superior remake of the show can't improve her character much.

wow step the gently caress off Gina Linetti she is too precious and pure for you

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



AvesPKS posted:

It always pissed me off that Zack was a superhero with the power to stop time yet he did nothing with it. Nothing​.

Also there was a character on Shining Time Station who was native American and I remember there was an episode that specifically dealt with his background and culture in a respectful way.

Yeah, Tom Jackson is a very prominent aboriginal activist and actor and a good one at that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Jackson_(actor)

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Arivia
Mar 17, 2011



rodbeard posted:

I haven't read about nxivm in years. I can't believe it took this long for that guy to get arrested. It's why Kristen Kruek disappeared off the face of the Earth too.

She just started a new show for the CBC up here actually. Really awkward in the mix of all this.

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