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Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


one of my favorite episodes of hercules: the legendary journeys had a plot where iolaus is chosen to be a judge of a beauty contest between aphrodite, artemis, and athena. each one of them offers iolaus a reward for choosing them (artemis will make iolaus the greatest warrior of all time, athena will make him the most brilliant thinker of all time, and aphrodite says she'll give him a golden apple that will make any woman he wants fall in love with him). iolaus goes with aphrodite, and mainly did so cause he wanted her specifically. aphrodite sadly informs iolaus it only works on mortals. iolaus is, as expected, pretty angry and is about to throw away the apple, until he sees a beautiful woman walking along the beach and decides to test it out. unfortunately, the woman in question is a princess who was betrothed to marry the prince of a rival kingdom to bring peace.

so i didn't really give it much thought until i watched the episode again recently and was describing the plot to a friend of mine, but the premise is honestly kind of yikes-y. i mean, you're basically magically forcing someone to fall in love with you that may not have otherwise. in the show, this is not seen as a problem at all. the only reason it becomes a problem is that iolaus chose the wrong potential mate. had it been anyone else, it would have been played off as something completely fine, with them (presumably) getting happily married and all.

as i said, it was one of my favorite episodes as a kid, and this stuff was seemingly treated as completely normal and uncontroversial, and i only made the realization fairly recently. (granted, i hadn't seen this episode SINCE i was a kid, but still..).

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Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


Mooseontheloose posted:

Kevin Sorbo's politics aged pretty poorly.

fun fact (which i just found out as well): this episode was apparently sorbo's first directorial debut on the show. so...yeah..

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


Antifa Turkeesian posted:

This is I guess an adaptation of The Iliad, which is older than it by like 3000 years, and even The Iliad has a part early on where Helen and Paris talk to each other about how hosed-up and wrong it is that Aphrodite made them fall in love.

oh yeah, i'm totally aware of the iliad. hercules: TLJ was always pretty loose with its connections to the original greek myths. but that being said, we know stories from thousands of years ago were pretty problematic (lots of instances of rape being seen as good things, as long as done by gods/heroes apparently), but you'd think modern interpretations would try to avoid such things.

(oddly enough, hercules never had a trojan war episode, but xena did...)

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


was i the only that wasn't a big fan of godzilla 2014 cause of the new kaijus? king of monsters was much better for a variety of reasons, but agreed on it being really drat hard to see

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


more kevin sorbo fun, but this time not from hercules:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlondt_U4w4

guy: your bride is over three thousand years old
sorbo: she said she was 19!

i remember watching that trailer and raising the old eyebrow at that part, even as a 12 year old. just to be clear, sorbo would have been 39 by this point.

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


oldpainless posted:

I thought it was noted cool guy Stefan Urquelle and not perpetual nice guy Steve Urkel that Laura fell for.

ehhhhh....kinda sorta

initially urkel would transform into stefan, which would make laura very happy. however, urkel also developed a surprisingly mutual relationship with myra as well, and suddenly had to decide whether he wanted her or laura. so in typical urkel fashion, he decided to bake his cake and eat it too, and so he cloned himself, letting the clone become stefan while he remained as urkel.

now after that i'm not exactly sure what happened. i think stefan went off to become a fashion model or something, dunno what happened to myra (but her actress wound up dying sadly ), and then urkel went to be an astronaut and proposed to laura and she accepted. i'm not clear on the details since i stopped watching after the show moved to CBS

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


holy crap. had no idea so many people not only liked G Gundam but thought it was better than Gundam Wing (count me among them)

catlord posted:

You know, I'd heard about this but I've only ever seen a tiny bit of Gundam Wing. It's pretty rough, but not quite as bad as I...


Oh.

To go back to Kevin Sorbo for a moment, I am so disappointed that he's... Kevin Sorbo. I loved Hercules and Andromeda! I liked it when he showed up in Sci-Fi original movies! Kull... wasn't good! I'm just so sad he's a loving piece of poo poo.


you and me both, friendo. it's incredibly ironic that he was part of a handful of actors i actually gave a poo poo about and took notice when he starred in other projects. finding out who he really is makes it a bit hard (though not impossible) to go back and watch hercules. but it does help that hercules the character is absolutely nothing like sorbo, so i'm able to disassociate myself from that. also it helps that the show turned to utter poo poo in the final seasons. but the first few seasons still hold up greatly (imo).

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


not sure if it applies here, but the outrage MOB came after poor gina carano simply for making the teeny weeny mistake of saying conservatives are being treated like jews in nazi germany

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


https://twitter.com/CBThorburn/status/1377696492295761923

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


marshmallow creep posted:

Ha, I was just talking to my wife earlier today about the 40 Days and 40 nights, where a man is raped in his sleep and his girlfriend gets mad at him about it.

the first ace ventura film is a pretty tough one to go back to as well

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


a LOT of 90s shows had a very tiny pool of voice actors. usually it'd be some combination of rob paulson, jim cummings, frank welker, kath soucie, tress mcneil and tony jay.

Fantastic Foreskin posted:

Given what happened to the rest of his co-stars (variously, nothing, drug problems, being Harrison Ford) getting in that car accident may well be one of the best things to ever happen to Mark Hamil.

yeah his live acting career may have been finished, but he got into an incredibly lucrative voice acting career.

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!



so these are all awful but this one in particular is just confusing. why does a jewish guy turn into a black blonde when he's in danger? why does this he-man parody have powers like as if he's clayface. i'm more puzzled at this than offended

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


Flinger posted:

These guys went on to make Xavier Renegade Angel, don't think too much about it

that...actually makes a lot of sense


speaking of which, this bad animation talk reminded me Drawn Together. that show was definitely...something

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


i think zuko is more like zoomers' sasuke

not sure if he killed anyone tho...


you're doing it wrong. you gotta post the superior original version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmMFp7Kr0Ng

speaking of which, i have no idea why they went through the effort to redub that scene if they were going to use the exact same lines

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


so here's a question for some older goons or goons that were just more familiar with the media landscape in the 90s. growing up, i heard about 'political correctness' all the time, but didn't know what it meant until high school and by then the 90s were over. and yet, the 90s were full of shows that had lots of progressive themes and morals, like environmentalism with captain planet, and widget the world watcher, racism/homophobia with x-men and gargoyles, gun control with batman and gun control, and so on. i mean, this sort of thing was super prominent back then, as it is to this day. i was watching some shows that had at least one episode where they would cover one of these subjects. i mean, these things were so ubiquitous that they didn't even seem noteworthy.

so my question is, did the media complain a lot every time one of these types of shows did something like that?

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


you know i was thinking about this for a bit and i think the mistake i made was thinking things were necessarily less controversial and political in the 90s/00s, as opposed to the way our media consumption has changed since then. back in the day, you could just watch something like power rangers and take whatever message they were hawking on a given episode or not, and just move on with your life. now however, we don't just have T.V. shows/movies with a message, but we youtube personalities like sargon and the quartering, who don't just provide "entertainment", but they actively and repeatedly tell their audiences what to be angry about. this is a completely new phenomenon that didn't exist before. along with the rise of podcasts, political messaging is so much more overt and focused then it had ever been before.

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


Antifa Turkeesian posted:

The dawn of a lot of that stuff was in the 90s. Rush Limbaugh walked so that they could run. Fox News as well. I feel like the first real right-wing media outrage cycle dates to Clinton getting investigated and impeached.

right, that's true. i should have clarified that by saying fox news/rush helped enrage boomers, whereas quartering/sargon/pool/etc. enrage kids/younger people

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


Dr Christmas posted:

A condensed version that blends the two offending segments:

https://mobile.twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/1386849380863414274

this is incredible

edit: wait, he was a TEACHER?

Mr Interweb has a new favorite as of 00:49 on Apr 28, 2021

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


AceOfFlames posted:

At least we will always have 50 Cent: Blood on the Sand.

ooh thanks for reminding me that i gotta re-watch spartacus

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


letthereberock posted:

Yeah looking back, roughly 2000-2005 was a really dark time culturally where it really seemed like the right was ascendant and a lot of pop culture was catering to that, to an extent that would seem almost unthinkable today. The nationalism/jingoism coming from 9/11 was certainly part of it, but not the entire story.

honestly, i think is pretty accurate. i was looking back on those years (and the latter half of the 00s) with nostalgia goggles mainly cause i wasn't "political" back then, and since i didn't see a bunch of rightwing shitheads repeatedly tell me that juniper lee was feminist propaganda, i figured the Right didn't have as much of an imprint in media as they do now. in one sense, i guess this is probably a good thing in that gamergate probably didn't create a unique or long lasting impact as i thought, and that we just keep cycling through the same poo poo over and over again.

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


saw an episode of gunsmoke a while back and the lovable, slow witted deputy was sympathetic to the confederacy

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


Megillah Gorilla posted:

So, Meg used Quagmire to rape one of her classmates? That's hosed up.

not exactly. lois called in quagmire to show up at meg's classmate's house. i never got the impression that he raped her (cause she wasn't the only person in the house, there was a party going on and her parents were there too). figured the point was just to creep the poo poo out of her.


quagmire got worse as time went on, but he was incredibly skeevy from the start. in the episode referenced above:


quagmire (to meg's classmate): how old are you?
classmate: 16
quagmire: 18 you say??


then there was an episode where he sees a cheerleader or some hot chick lying unconscious and he runs up to her and performs what appears to be CPR and manages to revive her, and then the following exchange happens:

peter: wow, quagmire. didn't know you knew CPR
quagmire: what the hell is CPR?

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


you know i'm not sure if this is an actual empirical change in modern media, but i noticed that the trope of the buttmonkey doesn't appear as prominently as it used to. you know what i'm talking about, the hapless character who for some reason is the victim of abuse from various kinds of people, sometimes through misunderstandings through no fault of their own, or sometimes just simply for no reason at all. there are lots of examples, but my go to is Cat from Catdog. Dog got abused too, but it was mostly directed towards Cat, and sometimes the latter's abuse was directly the result of the former. it was one of my least favorite shows growing up cause Cat just kept getting beaten up for no other reason than because a lot of people out there thought it was funny to see otherwise harmless people getting victimized.

another example are the eds from ed, edd and eddy. of the three, you can really only make a case for eddy being deserving of the beatings they normally get, but the other two almost always wind up suffering the same consequences. one of the episodes that sticks in my mind is the one where edd and jimmy are about to fight cause of some misunderstanding. edd didn't do anything evil or malicious to jimmy (at least not intentionally) but wound up getting the poo poo kicked out of him and that's how the episode ends. that's just one example but the entire show is like that. legit makes me wonder what this says about t.v. viewers

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


Vandar posted:

Family Guy is low-hanging fruit but Meg is probably still the most persistent example of a buttmonkey.

drat, how could i forget meg?

mind the walrus posted:

Do you know what's aged really loving badly? Shrek and Shrek-adjacent things. Zoomers go to the mat for Shrek and get shocked when I mention that I think it's mediocre at best, but they're what marketers want to court now so in the past week we got like three separate examples of "Holding out for a Hero" in nerd poo poo and it's just like... come the gently caress on dudes. Please. No more. It's not funny. It wasn't funny the first time they did it. It's only ever been mildly amusing. Just stop it. Please.

i'm no fan of shrek and i agree with you overall, but in fairness, i did appreciate the series taking the piss out of the lame typical disney fairy tale tropes. felt that was definitely needed.

Cleretic posted:

I feel like the reason Spongebob managed that dynamic while something like Catdog didn't was for a couple reasons.
A: Squidward isn't strongly attached to the protagonist, either literally or figuratively. With Cat (or perhaps in a less literal example Lisa Simpson), you have to accommodate him into the narrative every single time, while if Squidward doesn't add anything to a story you can just not have Squidward there.

B: More in a general 'why did this one take off' sense, I think it's important to remember when exactly it came around. Spongebob happened in that weird era of children's cartoons when people were just doing weird, sometimes ugly artstyles because nobody else had done them before. A lot of those shows were... well, super ugly. Some made that work for their vibe and energy (Rugrats, Ed, Edd 'n' Eddy), some succeeded in spite of their look (As Told By Ginger), while some... really didn't (Angela Anaconda, Rocket Power). It was a big, weird wild west of people going 'there's no rule saying we can't look like this' and then many of them learning that, hey, maybe there's a reason we shouldn't.

And then suddenly, in the midst of all that, came Spongebob. Using the 'nobody can tell us we can't' to make a really off-the-wall aesthetic work for it, making a whole cast of colorful and marketable characters. It was a huge hit--and was exactly what Nickelodeon needed, because none of their other weirdo-aesthetic cartoons were landing nearly as well. So they pushed the hell out of it, and thankfully, Spongebob could handle the pressure.

also helps that unlike catdog, spongebob is actually, you know, funny and entertaining.

and maybe i'm misremembering of having had enough exposure to spongebob (i've watch a lot of the early seasons but missed out on more than half), but while poor squidward is an unfortunate victim of spongebob's antics, he doesn't get abused THAT badly relative to other buttmonkeys.

(though again i could be completely wrong off on that!)

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


it's been a long time since i saw the early episodes of AD but i thought the entire purpose of him being a fish in the first place was some kind of punishment for being a captured nazi?

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


Kwyndig posted:

Nah, they just wanted East Germany to lose at skiing in the Olympics one year.

so why is he a fish?

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


And they did that cause it was his punishment for losing a ski tournament?

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


mind the walrus posted:

I'm suddenly reminded of Stephen King 50s/80s bullies and how they're always pulling literal switchblades and seriously physically harming the kids, and that would explain a lot-- Boomers only recognizing bullying as hardcore physical abuse is very on-brand for them.

this is also a good point. particularly movies i would see in the 80s, the bullies wouldn't just perform wedgies or whatever, but do outright psycho poo poo. i think cracked did a video about it a long time ago.

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


like many movies at the time, idiocracy has a lot of areas where it hasn't aged well, but i still have a soft spot for it

almost all the lines from the narrator were great

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


as someone who's not seen any star trek, is ds9 worth watching and also a good starting point?

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Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


add me to the list of people just finding out there was an AD season 5


also, another show that surprisingly positive portrayal of trans people was fricken' Sons of Anarchy. figure it was also probably able to get away with it too cause the shows hypermasculine but also a soap opera for dudes. kind of like with the gay characters in Spartacus

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