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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I'm not sure if the sopranos episode about columbus day was ever relevant but it sure seems silly now. Definitely a standout in terms of "wtf were they thinking with this oe". Where do you live? The importance of Columbus Day is more of a regional thing than a past/present thing, at least in my experiences. I grew up in Texas and nobody cared about Columbus Day at all, we didn't even get the day off. Then I moved to New York City for college and it was a much bigger deal there, everyone got the day off and my Italian-American friends made a big deal about how people were trying to "steal" the holiday from them. Granted, that was like a decade ago, so it's entirely possibly that attitudes have changed up there too. I know The Simpsons has been brought up a lot in this thread, but I'm trying to watch the entire series, including the lovely later seasons (why? I hate myself), and there's two pretty offensive anti-trans jokes in two consecutive episodes at the end of season 12. These aired in May of 1999. The first is the episode where Lisa joins MENSA. They all go to the park in Renaissance garb, but the town drunks are using their reserved gazebo. Skinner looks for an alternative, but reports back that "there are some shemales in gazebo three a nasty looking spider in gazebo six and the less said about gazebo eight, the better". They try to get Chief Wiggum to clear out the original gazebo, but he angrily replies with "how many gazebos do you shemales need"? That one isn't that bad outside of how much "shemale" really pops out at you, but the next one is much worse. It's the episode where the Simpsons go to Tokyo, and at the beginning they go to a seminar to learn how to be frugal. The gist of it is that you can live a luxurious lifestyle if you squeeze every penny, and to demonstrate, the presenter puts up a slide of himself partying on a yacht with a bunch of women. "You see this tux? I got it cheap 'cause Roy Cohn died in it", he says, and the audience murmurs with approval. "That fancy yacht? A bargain, 'cause it smells like cat pee", and again the crowd approves. "And those beautiful women? - They used to be men". The audience responds to that much more negatively than before, clearly finding trans people to be much more disgusting than wearing a dead man's tuxedo or a boat that smells like cat piss. It's pretty bad and the punchline is nothing more than "trans people are bad". As for other shows, King of the Hill is weird in that the earlier episodes hold up much, much better than the later ones. Apparently there were a set of dueling philosophies when it came to writing and producing the show. Mike Judge and his supporters were way more interested in having Hank confront and ultimately persevere against whatever liberal boogeyman they thought up that week, while Greg Daniels and his supporters pushed for the grounded, slice-of-life sitcom angle. Season 1 is mostly Judge, while 2-4 is a combined effort. Seasons 5-6 are mostly Daniels' people, Season 7 goes back to the collaboration, but in Season 8 a Judge disciple takes over and it stays with that group until the show ends. Most of the bad episodes mentioned earlier in this thread were from season 8 and beyond. Most of the good stuff mentioned, like the continuity and characters aging, were from seasons 2-7. There is one episode that doesn't hold up well. It's "Racist Dawg" in season 7. Ladybird attacks a black repairman played by Bernie Mac, the Hills try to blame it on him being a stranger, but when Ladybird is friendly to a new mailman, the repairman concludes that Ladybird must be racist. This leads to everyone thinking Hank is himself a racist, and the town gets more and more disgusted with him, to the point that his church holds a prayer circle on his front lawn. The plot is eventually resolved when Hank realizes Ladybird hates repairmen, so they call everyone in to see Ladybird attacking a white repairman. That episode aired in 2003, and truthfully, even when it aired there was no way a small Texas town would ever care that much about a resident being racist, but with the rise of the alt-right and all that's come with it, a bunch of conservatives caring that much about racism is simply laughable, and not in a good way.
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Sep 19, 2017 21:04
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TenCentFang posted:It really is strange how many episodes King of the Hill did about political correctness and environmentalism considering it's setting. It's like whoever was in charge was just venting elaborate revenge fantasies for whatever he saw on Fox News that made him so mad the previous night. It boggles(heh) the mind. A way funnier and more interesting plot for that episode would be if it revolved around actual white supremacists hearing about it and trying to recruit Hank. Thanks for reminding me of another exchange that doesn't hold up, not because it's problematic today but instead because it isn't what a conservative would believe. This one is from the pilot: Hank Hill: How is cutting down on pollution a government plot, Dale? Dale Gribble: Open up your eyes, man. They're trying to control global warming. Get it? GLO-BAL. Hank Hill: So what? Dale Gribble: That's code for U.N. commissars telling Americans what the temperature's going to be in their outdoors. I say let the world warm up, see what Boutros Boutros-Ghali-Ghali thinks about that! We'll grow oranges in Alaska. Hank Hill: Dale, you giblet-head, we live in Texas. It's already 110° in the summer, and if it gets one degree hotter, I'm gonna kick your rear end!
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Sep 19, 2017 21:32
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TenCentFang posted:That episode confused the hell out of me for this reason. Or maybe it's from me never having been around rich people? It was just so weird and alien I had a hard time connecting any of it to reality. There's a lot of late King of the Hill like that, where it seems like they're lampooning some political or social trend, but it's hard to tell what exactly. These aren't episodes that didn't age well, they were just never that good. "Tears of an Inflatable Clown" is another one, a school district official come to Bobby's school to make sure it's racially diverse, but he gets there and sees that it already is and somehow that's a problem??  Those episodes always felt like a fever dream from my racist, drunk uncle.And while we're on the subject of Mike Judge, I recently watched the Beavis and Butthead on Hulu and I'm shocked at how well it aged. I guess there's something timeless in two idiots going around and making life hell for each other/everyone else.
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Sep 19, 2017 23:17
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Wheat Loaf posted:It's weird to think that Breaking Bad premiered more than 10 years ago and ended five years ago. Breaking Bad is definitely starting to show its signs of not aging well. For a critically-acclaimed, prestige show that is often listed as one of the best of all times, it’s hard not to notice that it’s also a total sausage-fest, and the few women that are present basically only exist to make the lives of the men in the show more complicated. They eventually figure out some use out of Skylar, but the first 2 seasons she’s just giving out lovely birthday handjobs and making angry faces at Walt. Marie has her bizarre kleptomaniac subplot that really only serves to give Hank something to do. Jane is there to be alluring and die for Jesse to deal with. To be honest, it didn’t come across as perfect at the time, The Sopranos had already shown you could have strong female characters in a crime drama, and fellow AMC contemporary Mad Men began a year prior and was also able to write meaningful women into a traditionally men’s setting. But I can’t think of a single example of prestigious television that has premiered since then with less female representation.
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Jun 18, 2018 19:36
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Last Chance posted:Those are some pretty shallow readings of those female characters. I think there's a bit more to each of them than that Well, like I said, the character of Skylar does eventually transcend her beginnings and become an actual, full-fledged character. But I don’t think I’m wrong when it comes to Marie or Jane. Would the character of Marie exist at all without Hank? Her presence is almost entirely utilitarian, she provides the indirect familial connection between Hank and Walt, she is the emotional punching bag that shows us how Hank is dealing with his issues, and the one plot they give her, her kleptomania, again only really serves to be an obstacle for Hank. I’ll admit, when I initially watched the show I thought Jane was a more interesting character than I’m giving her credit for now, but after her arc concluded it was clear that she was written into the show to give Jesse something to snatch away. Perhaps I’d give the writers the benefit of the doubt, but then they turn around and do the exact same thing with Andrea.
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Jun 18, 2018 22:58
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Calico Heart posted:Dexter was weird because as a show it kept HAVING actual good ideas (I mean good in a schlocky way) and then abandoning them I’ve only made it through Dexter once, but the stubborn refusal to change the status quo is pretty much my strongest impression of the show. Dexter had to juggle taking care of his family, working his crime scene job, serial killing, and dealing with that season’s major antagonist. They would tease things like maybe he’s not a sociopath, maybe he’ll find someone who accepts what he does, maybe someone will find out about him, but they always hit the reset button by season’s end so they could come out and do the same poo poo next year. Even the end of season 4, which everyone hailed as this major game changer, was basically just a way for them to keep Dexter doing what he was doing. They had written themselves into a corner with Dexter’s marriage and couldn’t figure out convenient excuses to keep him out late, so they just killed her and replaced her with a series of girlfriends and babysitters (lol). There were a lot of interesting places the show could have gone, but I think Showtime was concerned that it would kill the golden goose, so they just keep things mostly the same for 8 years. And then demanded that it end in such a way that they could immediately go back to the formula in the future if needed. Since this is the “TV episodes that did not age well” thread, I do want to say I think Dexter will age even worse than it already has. It seems like the economy of television has changed, and a long running show that everyone got sick of is way less valuable than a beloved show with a shorter run, since you can sell the streaming rights over and over again (or offer it yourself on your own streaming platform). I’m sure HBO has made a ton of money off people hearing people great things about The Wire years after it went off the air and paying $15 for HBO Now to watch it. Meanwhile, I don’t think anyone is paying that for Showtime Anytime to see how Dexter ended.
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Jul 11, 2018 22:58
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I just started rewatching the Venture Brothers and they use “gay” as a synonym for “bad” at least like twice an episode in the first two seasons.
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Dec 10, 2018 16:00
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luxury handset posted:yeah the creators of the show talk about this in a regretful fashion Oh really? That’s good to hear. I remember from watching them as they aired that they really walked back from the Dr. Girlfriend possibly being trans innuendos as time went on, so I’m glad they realized that was kinda lovely too.
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Dec 10, 2018 21:03
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Pick posted:The book goes into it a lot. I didn’t even realize there was a book, so this thread is full of good news for me today! 
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Dec 10, 2018 21:11
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OutOfPrint posted:The first season has some golden episodes, but people can skip the 2nd episode through Ghosts of the Sargasso. Ghosts is where it really found its footing. I don’t really see the point of skipping like 5 episodes if you’re already committed to watching the remaining 80+. Plus that stretch introduces Ünderbheit, Cocktease, and Doctor Orpheus, so you might as well watch them, even if they don’t hit the same highs as the later seasons.
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Dec 11, 2018 17:16
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wizzardstaff posted:I wouldn't go so far as to say they should absolutely be skipped, but if you are a person who is liable to be turned off by mid-2000s adolescent humor (or you are trying to introduce the show to someone who is) then those episodes are a really rough introduction that might sour the entire experience. You've got to weigh that against the benefit of going for that full 100% completion achievement. If you’re trying to avoid the mid-2000s adolescent humor you’re going to have to skip to like season 3, they’re still using “gay” to mean bad and making weird jokes about Dr. Girlfriend throughout season 2. All you can really do is acknowledge that it was in poor taste and that even the creators of the show regret that stuff and that it will eventually go away.
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Dec 11, 2018 18:42
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