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Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

Pray for Answer



MMF Freeway posted:

You can do stuff like corrupt resolute technique on it too. Not sure how much accuracy skeles need but it's an option

I donít think they miss very often anymore. I think thatís part of why they got rid of the perfect accuracy mod in Necro, the changes to accuracy scaling mean they rarely miss as it is.

That being said scaling crit on them also isnít very realistic.

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Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Fenris13 posted:

I am pretty sure the sword replaces the default skeletons attack, which means they no longer scale with level, however when adding raw damage to them they not only gain the triple damage scaling but the sword should give them a much higher attack speed, as much as double. That means raw damage actually has 6x the value when added to this as it does regular SW. Need to borrow Zero's Aura bot with 6 or 9 vengeful commanders and both anger and wrath.

Ahh Vengeful Commander stacking with full cold will be so loving stupid with this but I'm too lazy to click to make skeletons constantly. Maybe I can get a helmet with Minion Damage and "socketed gems deal 30% more elemental" then craft "Cast on Focus" into it?

Edit: Or I guess I could just link them in a chest to "Cast When Stunned" and wade into packs lol

Edit 2: I'm thinking this will definitely be better than Soulwrest for AFK Blight strats though since you're not trying to run and cast at the same time

Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Sep 16, 2020

Dunkelbrau
Aug 9, 2003


search engine posted:

I can show you what a hardcore viable bleed lacerate gladiator should look like in pob, but there's no guide since it's all just homebrew stuff that I run on instinct after the better part of a decade playing this dumb game. https://pastebin.com/dkjHkC6s is the end state. This isn't gonna be enough detail if you're looking for the long version, but some notes on getting there:

-path toward resolute technique, picking up all bleed nodes and as much life as you need to feel comfortable. there's no perfect/specific order here, you just want to hit RT before your accuracy starts to really suck.
-fill out a balance of block, life, and axe damage passives over time. pretty flexible, just shore up whatever feels most lacking
-don't take crimson dance until you have a 5l (for multistrike), a decent axe, and gratuitous violence.
-80s+, start dumping excess axe and/or life passives in favor of cluster jewels as you can acquire them
-gems: chance to bleed support until you're at 100% without it. priority as you get more links is brutality>melee phys>deadly ailments>multistrike>fortify. Swap fortify for deadly ailments in hc.
-ascendancy: gratuitous violence then versatile combatant. even in hc it's worth getting the massive damage and clear speed boost first
-jewels: life and bleed duration are by far the most important mods, past that just get stats, resists, damage over time, whatever.
-cluster jewels: pob example has a nearly perfect mix. any combination of the mods shown will do fine
-axe: the only strictly necessary gear. run a jack or some random pdps rare until you get an ilvl 83 elder axe. crafting basically revolves around throwing corroded fossils, regals, annulments at the base until you get the bleed mod and two open prefixes, then multimod. cull suffix is gravy but will take a lot more investment to hit.
-gear: whatever you can wear that'll give you life, resists, armor. the pob example is way beyond what you need to succeed, but it's a good final setup to aim for

Thanks a ton, that level of detail is great. Time to not minion or cyclone this league!

Grimoire
Jul 9, 2003


Pob is saying 820 dmg per hit at level 20 summon skeleton, 1k at 22, 1.25 base aps

Total base dps is 1k -> 1.25k

Let's test a full overwrite
Assuming average damage of 170 on the sword and 1.5 aps, that's 255
with 30% qual, 331
with unholy might (assume full chaos conversion): 430
x3 for recent hit: ~1300
Now finally max withered, no other sources of -chaos res: ~2450 dps, vs max withered conversion without sword, lvl 22: ~2381

But, max withered is harder to get for the latter option (need that cluster notable or totems or waste a support on withering touch)

So, the real issue is roll-able range on the weapon and whether this is bonus damage on top of base or not

Cinara
Jul 15, 2007


Based on the math I am going to assume it replaces their damage, because while baseline it's maybe not that good. Start looking at it when you add in stuff like a full set of flat phys+chaos Abyssal Jewels, or Awakened Added Chaos or Envy Aura.

Grimoire
Jul 9, 2003


Cinara posted:

Based on the math I am going to assume it replaces their damage, because while baseline it's maybe not that good. Start looking at it when you add in stuff like a full set of flat phys+chaos Abyssal Jewels, or Awakened Added Chaos or Envy Aura.

Yup. also lol tripled smite aura for +350 avg base damage, on top of stupid poo poo like wrath and anger

Grimoire fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Sep 16, 2020

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003


Zero VGS posted:

Ahh Vengeful Commander stacking with full cold will be so loving stupid with this but I'm too lazy to click to make skeletons constantly. Maybe I can get a helmet with Minion Damage and "socketed gems deal 30% more elemental" then craft "Cast on Focus" into it?

Edit: Or I guess I could just link them in a chest to "Cast When Stunned" and wade into packs lol

Edit 2: I'm thinking this will definitely be better than Soulwrest for AFK Blight strats though since you're not trying to run and cast at the same time

You could through it an arcanist brand, you would loose a link and they would do about 10% less damage to the branded target, but with base duration it will cast 3 times, to max out your summoned skeletons and then you only need to recast it when they start dying or you move to the next pack.

Or you could put them in CwC and charged dash, get hits with the sword, trigger fortify, jump over cliffs, dodge telegraphed attacks all with one button!

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Grimoire posted:


But, max withered is harder to get for the latter option (need that cluster notable or totems or waste a support on withering touch)

21 withering touch is 30% physical as extra Chaos and 20 qual is 10% increased chaos damage; I'd hardly call that a waste. Just to get to the full withered stacks faster and more consistently it might be worth it considering the other perks

Ultima66
Sep 1, 2008


You would typically compare it to like a lvl 25 Skeleton gem because that's what Necromancers are actually working with most of the time.

That said, the fact that the weapon scales flat added damage really well and makes it so you don't actually have to scale skeleton gem level much makes for interesting new builds. I think it's worth pointing out that a lvl 5 Awakened Added Chaos gem adds 243 flat chaos damage, which becomes 364 with the Skeleton's 150% damage effectiveness. That's about a 170% more multiplier in a single link.

please knock Mom!
Nov 9, 2011

Goddomme Jan!





You can probably stuff the link full of poo poo like added cold and added chaos with that sword

Infinity Gaia
Feb 27, 2011

a storm is coming...


So assuming I want to run Trickster as a generic caster to play around with the new spells and such, what are the ascendancy choices to be made? It doesn't seem as clear cut as most others. I'm guessing both ghost shroud things as defensive layer, the rng chaos one and... I have no idea what the fourth is. Or even if the rng chaos one is good.

please knock Mom!
Nov 9, 2011

Goddomme Jan!





Infinity Gaia posted:

So assuming I want to run Trickster as a generic caster to play around with the new spells and such, what are the ascendancy choices to be made? It doesn't seem as clear cut as most others. I'm guessing both ghost shroud things as defensive layer, the rng chaos one and... I have no idea what the fourth is. Or even if the rng chaos one is good.

Charges on kill is really good

Grimoire
Jul 9, 2003


I really think guardian would be the way to go with this - if the damage from levels is nuked by this, then lean into his generic minion bonuses and onslaught

Dualwielding with United in Dream could be neat, on top of envy you get minion poison, which works well with base damage, but I'll need to pob to sim

Cinara
Jul 15, 2007


Infinity Gaia posted:

So assuming I want to run Trickster as a generic caster to play around with the new spells and such, what are the ascendancy choices to be made?

The best ascendancy choices would be respec to Assassin. Trickster really isn't a great generic caster, but you'd take Ghost Shrouds, Harness the Void and Swift Killer.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 8, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW_TZp8kyU0

Reiterpallasch
Nov 3, 2010

strength accessories?




Fun Shoe

Grimoire posted:

Pob is saying 820 dmg per hit at level 20 summon skeleton, 1k at 22, 1.25 base aps

Total base dps is 1k -> 1.25k

Let's test a full overwrite
Assuming average damage of 170 on the sword and 1.5 aps, that's 255
with 30% qual, 331
with unholy might (assume full chaos conversion): 430
x3 for recent hit: ~1300
Now finally max withered, no other sources of -chaos res: ~2450 dps, vs max withered conversion without sword, lvl 22: ~2381

But, max withered is harder to get for the latter option (need that cluster notable or totems or waste a support on withering touch)

So, the real issue is roll-able range on the weapon and whether this is bonus damage on top of base or not

doesn't the sword also have a significantly higher attack speed than ordinary summoned skeletons do?

e: oh jeez, the wiki says that skellies have 0.8 base APS...that doesn't scale with gem level or anything, right? wouldn't that make this sword, at 1.52 aps, like double the dps if they're just wailing on a single target?

Reiterpallasch fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Sep 16, 2020

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011


Do keep in mind about that sword that you have to compare it to a well rolled convoking wand, is the triple damage and wither stacks going to be worth giving up +1-2 minion levels, up to 80% minion damage, 5% chance to deal double damage, 25% minion attack/cast speed and space for trigger socketed spells crafted on?

You could probably cyclone cast while channeling to replace the trigger socketed spells at least, but you also need to be in the danger of melee range to hit for the triple damage.

Grimoire
Jul 9, 2003


Reiterpallasch posted:

doesn't the sword also have a significantly higher attack speed than ordinary summoned skeletons do?

e: oh jeez, the wiki says that skellies have 0.8 base APS...that doesn't scale with gem level or anything, right? wouldn't that make this sword, at 1.52 aps, like double the dps if they're just wailing on a single target?

that's a data dump on the wiki, which gets run through a whole other bunch of poo poo. Use PoB, which states 1.25 base aps for regular skeletons, as in my post above

Chainsawdomy
Jul 3, 2006

For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed;
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still


Can someone with more experience tell me if this is a good ED-C Trickster build guide?
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2581551

Harvest was my first league, and I played Baron Necro, which was a lot of fun up until high reds/Sirius where my lack of optimized gear/play really showed through and I felt like I was made out of tissue paper. This league I want something pretty forgiving survivability-wise, and thematically I feel like I have to start Shadow.

From reading this thread, ED-C seems like a popular choice, but if there's something else people recommend for my first ever Shadow build, I'm all ears.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003


I always forget this, but the wiki lists attack speed, not attacks per second, so 0.8 for skelies is 0.8 seconds per attack, or 1.25 aps.

pork never goes bad
May 16, 2008

gin&milk!!!


Chainsawdomy posted:

Can someone with more experience tell me if this is a good ED-C Trickster build guide?
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2581551

Harvest was my first league, and I played Baron Necro, which was a lot of fun up until high reds/Sirius where my lack of optimized gear/play really showed through and I felt like I was made out of tissue paper. This league I want something pretty forgiving survivability-wise, and thematically I feel like I have to start Shadow.

From reading this thread, ED-C seems like a popular choice, but if there's something else people recommend for my first ever Shadow build, I'm all ears.

That is a good ED/C guide - the upgrade flowchart at the bottom alone is great. It's also telling that the author is up front about the fact that ED/C has bad singletarget at low gear levels, though it's very safe playstyle wise as you drop a dot and then dodge.

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007

Let me sing you a song.


Taco Defender

It is very common for EDC to have really mediocre boss dmg as a first character, it really needs some big items to get it up. The cost is mainly going to be crafting some kind of chaos spell bow.

Cinara
Jul 15, 2007


Wither Totem is pointless just use the Blight jewel or two, this frees up links to get Arcane Surge and Second Wind on Flame Dash which is a big deal.

The Shortest Path
Jun 21, 2012

Peace was never an option.



Is it too late to get in the guild before the season starts up or are there still spots available?

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

Pray for Answer



Reminder that you can get both Unholy Might and Wither for skeletons from the tree (Wither comes from a cluster jewel node, I think that one also converts a third of their damage to chaos).

Infinity Gaia
Feb 27, 2011

a storm is coming...


Cinara posted:

The best ascendancy choices would be respec to Assassin. Trickster really isn't a great generic caster, but you'd take Ghost Shrouds, Harness the Void and Swift Killer.

Man it's so hard to ask questions like this because it seems like everyone has a different absolute fact about it. I asked elsewhere and was told Trickster, but now it's apparently Assassin (even after nerf?) and it makes it very hard to decide to do anything in this game.

TheOneAndOnlyT
Dec 18, 2005

Well well, mister fancy-pants, I hope you're wearing your matching sweater today, or you'll be cut down like the ugly tree you are.

After nearly 900 hours in this game I'd like to try my hand at modifying a build to make my own. There is only one small problem, which is that I am a dumbass idiot moron who has no idea how to do this. On top of that, I'm trying to turn a non-CI build into a CI one while never having played CI before. So this build is probably going to look like it was created by a dumbass idiot moron. Fair warning.

This is my current attempt, based on the Creeping Frost build that people were savaging the other day for being hybrid life/ES for no reason. The only thing in the build that's mine is the "CI test" tree; everything else is from the dude who originally made the build. My plan is to follow the original build through the "56-70 (Skillpoint Quests)" tree until I hit maps, then switch over to the "CI test" tree I made and build from there. Does this seem reasonable? Do I have enough +ES for CI (I have no idea how much I need)? Am I a dumbass idiot moron for even attempting CI with this build? I'm probably going to dip my toe into red maps at best, so I don't need something endgame-ready, but it'd be good to know if this isn't even worth trying.

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007

Let me sing you a song.


Taco Defender

Infinity Gaia posted:

Man it's so hard to ask questions like this because it seems like everyone has a different absolute fact about it. I asked elsewhere and was told Trickster, but now it's apparently Assassin (even after nerf?) and it makes it very hard to decide to do anything in this game.

You could also go inquis, it wouldn't be the best but at least you would drop a consecrated ground anytime your standing still. You would also have to figure out a way for stun immunity if you need it.

TheOneAndOnlyT posted:

This is my current attempt, based on the Creeping Frost build that people were savaging the other day for being hybrid life/ES for no reason. The only thing in the build that's mine is the "CI test" tree; everything else is from the dude who originally made the build. My plan is to follow the original build through the "56-70 (Skillpoint Quests)" tree until I hit maps, then switch over to the "CI test" tree I made and build from there. Does this seem reasonable? Do I have enough +ES for CI (I have no idea how much I need)? Am I a dumbass idiot moron for even attempting CI with this build? I'm probably going to dip my toe into red maps at best, so I don't need something endgame-ready, but it'd be good to know if this isn't even worth trying.

https://pastebin.com/Pzk3e8Z8
I added in a bated breath and sin treks which are really cheap for ci. You would have to fix your resists though those two items don't have any. Energy from within might be 80ish-c but it turns the juice witch life nodes into es. And grabbed the es/life wheel by low life. Try to find rings with a suffix open because you can craft es starts recharge 15% faster. You also need wicked ward because that lets your es recharge continue for 4s after getting hit which is huge. The bad part is I added like 12 extra levels on for you.

There's important stuff in the calcs page for ES.

Recharge rate is how much you'll heal a second, which if you started healing but then got hit you would atleast heal for 4 more secs.
Recharge delay is how long you gotta not get hit for to start healing. Fire and defiled ground are big things that will continuously hit you to stop your es recharge. Abberath will make you immune to burning ground which will solve this so you should steal the bosses soul asap.

This will work until red maps where you need a 6l and maybe a shavs/chay amulet(the updated one) for more es and to go low life. You can do it all on a 5l if your careful but it will be slow.

Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Sep 16, 2020

Cinara
Jul 15, 2007


People often react to nerfs in PoE like whatever got nerfed is completely garbage now and unplayable. Assassin lost a tiny bit of damage yes, but it's not the end of the world. Nothing changed that suddenly makes Trickster the correct choice for a generic caster build when it wasn't before. Trickster is an allstar for dot builds, but outside those it really isn't offering that much.

Inquis is OK but I am not a huge fan, it's just too easy to get a shitton of ele pen from other sources. The Consecrated Ground line is wonderful and Ailment Immunity will be more annoying to get without Harvest crafting, but I still don't think it's enough.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009






Shortly after we launched Harvest, we released a set of league stash tabs that, in spite of selling really well, caused some community members to express concern

I love this sentence so much


From here https://twitter.com/pathofexile/sta...6879850496?s=21

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009






I thought inquis would be an elemental attack ascendency but it never really developed

Cinara
Jul 15, 2007


euphronius posted:

I thought inquis would be an elemental attack ascendency but it never really developed

It just suffers from PoE power creep. When it was first added to the game, ignoring resists was fantastic, as your only real sources for elemental penetration were the gem and curses. Since then we have gotten a ton more gear sources of penetration, along with stuff like Exposure and Combustion.

RPZip
Feb 6, 2009

WORDS IN THE HEART
CANNOT BE TAKEN


Cinara posted:

People often react to nerfs in PoE like whatever got nerfed is completely garbage now and unplayable. Assassin lost a tiny bit of damage yes, but it's not the end of the world. Nothing changed that suddenly makes Trickster the correct choice for a generic caster build when it wasn't before. Trickster is an allstar for dot builds, but outside those it really isn't offering that much.

Inquis is OK but I am not a huge fan, it's just too easy to get a shitton of ele pen from other sources. The Consecrated Ground line is wonderful and Ailment Immunity will be more annoying to get without Harvest crafting, but I still don't think it's enough.

Trickster adds a fair bit even for generic casters, Assassin is pretty laser focused on crit so if you don't want to do that then Trickster is a good choice. It also has more defensive stuff.

With that said, the Assassin nerf might just mean that instead of stacking power charges and the Power Charge node you instead just grab Ambush and Assassinate, so it is a fairly minor nerf unless you were going full Void Battery build before.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009






Cinara posted:

It just suffers from PoE power creep. When it was first added to the game, ignoring resists was fantastic, as your only real sources for elemental penetration were the gem and curses. Since then we have gotten a ton more gear sources of penetration, along with stuff like Exposure and Combustion.

I think it got a revamp once too to add on the sacred ground stuff ?

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007

Let me sing you a song.


Taco Defender

Trickster cast speed and easy access to dodge and stun immunity are pretty good.

Syle187
Mar 21, 2008



Infinity Gaia posted:

Man it's so hard to ask questions like this because it seems like everyone has a different absolute fact about it. I asked elsewhere and was told Trickster, but now it's apparently Assassin (even after nerf?) and it makes it very hard to decide to do anything in this game.

Usually this means either choice is fine, but one is a bit better than the other. Personally I think Assassin is better as well (and argued about it for a bit a few pages back). However, Trickster offers a pretty strong defensive package with some okay generic caster options and wouldn't be terrible or anything.

Cinara
Jul 15, 2007


Mistwalker is a monster of a defensive node that should not be ignored.

euphronius posted:

I think it got a revamp once too to add on the sacred ground stuff ?

Yea it did, but they didn't change any of the other nodes so it fell back off the meta really quick and never really recovered.

J
Jun 10, 2001



Cinara posted:

Assassin lost a tiny bit of damage yes, but it's not the end of the world.

Everybody go on reddit and twitch and yell really loud about assassin being super nerfed unplayable garbage so I can get a nice and cheap badge of the brotherhood for my assassin this league thank you all and god bless.

search engine
Jun 16, 2020



euphronius posted:

I thought inquis would be an elemental attack ascendency but it never really developed

Way back in the mists of time there were a bunch of people stunting on shaper with 1L ele blade flurry inquisitors. But inevitable judgment has steadily been out-creeped and the ascendancy doesn't offer much else. Having regen as the primary defensive mechanic is awful, especially for melee, and it doesn't help that most elemental attack skills kinda suck in the first place. I wasted a lot of time trying to make a good glacial hammer inquisitor.

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boo_radley
Dec 30, 2005

Politeness costs nothing

Gem times!
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2936080

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