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Pursesnatcher
Oct 23, 2016



Grimey Drawer

mod edit: due to the nature of this thread it is a bit more heavily moderated than is normal in TFR. Try to stick on topic and be aware that I'm going to error on the side of longer probates if poo poo gets stupid.

Gun bans! They're real, or at least soon to be, somewhere. For instance, by August 2018, all EU member states has to implement a ban on a whole lot of firearms and accessories (see below).

NB: This is not(-ish) a politics thread! It's about policies, not parties or politicians. Stick to your guns and the laws regarding them.
Pretty please, do not dredge up how Barack Bush, George Clinton, the Republicrats or Democans or anyone else had the best/worst gun law platform.

The 50-ish states of Europe, with its 30-odd major languages, sports about 750 million people. It's also home to a staggering amount of firearms, with an estimated about 100 million legal gun owners in the EU alone. However, right now, new gun laws are being dragged through the various chambers and assemblies of the union. These are colloquially known as the "great EU gun ban", and you should know about them because if you're American, it's funny, and if you're European, it's probably a bit terrifying.

The EU proper has 28 member states are directly affected by whatever legislation it decides to pass; the rest of the continent has to follow suit if they are petitioning for membership or want access to the single market due to because reasons. Often, this works well. You get a single emissions standard for cars, a single definition for a tradeable cucumber. When it comes to guns, however, things are... different. There have been little to no common gun legislation for the EU, due to cultural differences. Pretty much the only commonality between countries is the requirement of obtaining a licence to own a firearm, and I'm not even sure that's universal.

Take Britain, known for some of the most draconic gun laws this side of Jupiter. Handguns are pretty much universally banned, while there are strict restrictions on long arms for hunting. The Czech republic, also a EU member, considers firearm ownership a basic right. About 4 out of every 5 gun owner in the country effectively also has a concealed carry permit. A third example is Sweden, where concealed carry permits are almost unheard of, but an ownership permit is easy enough to come by, and immediately grants you the right to acquire more than a dozen handguns and long arms. Poland (sort of) operates under a "shall issue" regime, Greece has in practice outlawed rifle ownership, and in France, guns have to be physically equipped with a locking mechanism rendering them inoperable even while transporting them to and from the range.

Because the security and integrity of reasons, the EU has decided to unify dozens of disparate gun laws into one great big ban.


A few months back, Spanish police uncovered an arsenal of some 10.000 small arms, heavy machine guns, mortars and more; small portion pictured above. The upcoming ban will obviously prevent criminals from getting Browing M2's.

The relevant directive was passed earlier this year, and the member states have to implement it, or something stricter, within next fall. This means that examples of things currently or soon to be banned are:
  • Any and all full auto weapons
  • Anything that's been converted from full- to semi-auto
  • Deactivated or mock weapons resembling either of the above
  • Handgun magazines holding more than 21 shots
  • Long arm magazines holding more than 11 shots
  • Any shoulder-fired gun that becomes less than 2 feet long by adjusting the stock
  • Hollowpoints, unless for hunting
Additionally, there have been several attempts in the past to ban any and all AR-15 and AK-47 derivatives, including civilian semi-auto-only variants. This did not pass this time around, but is in no way off the table when adjustments are made in the future. To top it off, legislators in several countries are happy to go the extra mile. I've heard talk of capping long arm magazines at 5 shots and handguns at 10. Part of the reasoning is that such limitations have been suggested in the EU previously, and thus may soon enough be implemented as directives anyway. In theory, there's room to exempt sports shooters from parts of the ban, but in practice that's up the individual states, and highly unlikely.

However, some countries (primarily the Czech) are opposing the whole thing. Over the next few months, things might yet happen, but that's the EU gun ban in a nutshell. If your interest was piqued, Firearms United is an organization established to fight the ban; their blog has more on this. Personally, as a Norwegian, I'll be affected by the EU ban eventually, but as we're not a member state it's bound to drag on for a while. Today, Norwegian gun laws are considered strict (at least by Norwegians), but fair-ish. Almost 1 in 10 of us owns just under 3 firearms each. The majority are hunters or (bolt-action) rifle competition shooters, with a sizable minority shooting handguns for sport. A small minority also shoot IPSC, and fewer yet shoot CAS, PPC, black powder, and so on. There's virtually no gun crime, certainly not with legally obtained firearms, and accidents are pretty rare (as in "virtually unheard of" in sports shooting, although some hunter will occasionally shoot someone, thinking it was a moose, grouse, or deer).

The rules are easy enough: If you like shooting for fun, and you're not convicted, you only need to keep your guns safe and prove you're able handle them safely. Every firearm owner is required to keep their guns in a nationally approved gun safe; if lighter than 330 lbs this must be bolted to a load-bearing wall or solid floor. On the other hand, there are no carry permits for anyone. Also, fully automatics are strictly forbidden, as are firearms concealed as mundane objects or "normally utilized as weapons of war". The government maintains a pretty long list of approved semi-auto rifles which may be permitted (AR-15's are pretty much good, the FS2000 is absolutely not, and the Garand is the most recent addition). Semi-auto sporting rifles (like AR's) are a bitch, however; starting from scratch, it will take at least 3 years to get a permit for something like the HK MR223. Finally, if you break the rules, your gun pile is confiscated.

Apart from that, at 16, you can pass a hunter's exam to get a permit for up to six rifles or shotguns – handguns are strictly forbidden for hunting. For those, you'll need to join a club and pass their safety course, and remain a member for at least 6 months. Afterwards, if you're not a moron, the club vouches for your character, and you can acquire a single weapon for each discipline they (you) compete in. There are seven common disciplines recognized, and if you're highly active, you're also allowed a backup gun for each. With a few more esoteric disciplines besides, the maximum number an extremely active hunter/shooter can practically obtain is something like 30-40 weapons. Oh, and a couple of years back, the government decided the .500 S&W was scary, so they banned handguns larger than .455.

The real reason I dragged you in here, though, was to find out what it's like in your area. So how's it like where you're at? Worse? Better? Any gun bans or limitations incoming? Are mandatory safety classes perhaps a good idea? Are you a fellow European, shivering in fright? I hear New York is The Worst™ when it comes to these things, but while anyone can go on Wikipedia, that hardly approaches getting the low-down from someone actually affected by current and upcoming legislation.

Somebody fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Feb 9, 2019

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Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



So from skimming the OP, this man wants to steal your guns or something?

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

This mean moose poop is gonna lose his Swedish Ks?

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Consider this your one and final warning.

I OK'd this thread because gun regulation like this is a thing we should be able to talk about. Given how gun bans happen obviously politicians are going to be part of that.

Post anything about a politician that isn't 110% directly related to guns at your own peril. This is a free fire zone as far as my mod powers are concerned. I don't care if Merkle just pegged Corbyn while Trump and Trudeau watched and tugged each other off, if it wasn't part of ongoing negotiations re: gun control it doesn't belong in this thread.

Note that this also isn't where you complain about how awful a political party is because of its ongoing support of gun control. Talk about the regulations, talk about who is making them, talk about what the effects on gun owners can be, that's fine. If all you have to contribute is your deep thoughts on how much some party sucks, take it to D&D. Yes this is subjective, yes I will error on the side of gently caress you.

For example: "Mayor Murray is a strong advocate of gun taxes in Seattle" is fine. "loving Californians bringing their gun grabbing democratic politics up here" is not.

THIS IS A GUN CONTROL THREAD NOT A GENERAL POLITICS THREAD.

If any of the above is confusing I highly suggest that you not post in this thread.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Certified Centrist Trash


Cyrano4747 posted:

Post anything about a politician that isn't 110% directly related to guns at your own peril. This is a free fire zone as far as my mod powers are concerned. I don't care if Merkle just pegged Corbyn while Trump and Trudeau watched and tugged each other off, if it wasn't part of ongoing negotiations re: gun control it doesn't belong in this thread.

What if she calls it her Schwartzegewehr?

I'm actually legitimately interested to see how the Czech "gently caress you we dealt with the Soviets for 45 years" Republic takes this order. With the UK already leaving the EU, I wonder if that gives other threats of departure more weight.

I know that the actual revolution that ended communist rule was non-violent, but my understanding is that like the OP says, Czechs are very protective of their guns. Probably remnants of the Prague Spring?

I'm going to risk the ban to say this on politics. Say what you will about his policies, George Clinton had the best parliament in the world.

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011



Grimey Drawer

Craptacular posted:

So from skimming the OP, this man wants to steal your guns or something?



I think he is cool with bop guns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzOQNDcl3yU

lizard_phunk
Oct 23, 2003

Alt Girl For Norge


I'm very interested in hearing some personal accounts about the UK ban. Does anyone in the UK do competition shooting at all?

Thankfully for me the two guns are practically ancient (Unique DES32 and DES69U) and only take 5 shots per magazine anyway so I guess I won't really be affected much (Norwegian here).

But this directive has to have big implications for IPSC?

Pursesnatcher
Oct 23, 2016



Grimey Drawer


Didn't catch the initial reference but wtf holy poo poo there actually is a George Clinton

22 Eargesplitten posted:

What if she calls it her Schwartzegewehr?

I'm actually legitimately interested to see how the Czech "gently caress you we dealt with the Soviets for 45 years" Republic takes this order. With the UK already leaving the EU, I wonder if that gives other threats of departure more weight.

I know that the actual revolution that ended communist rule was non-violent, but my understanding is that like the OP says, Czechs are very protective of their guns. Probably remnants of the Prague Spring?

I'm going to risk the ban to say this on politics. Say what you will about his policies, George Clinton had the best parliament in the world.

When you get shat all over and occupied twice in a mere 50 years, I suppose you begin to tend towards paranoia. One thing the Czech are evidently up to these days – due to the latest developments – is drafting an actual constitutional amendment, something about a "well regulated militia" and the "security of the State", which would place private gun ownership outside range of the EU banhammer. It doesn't look like they're going to go full Czexit over this, but yeah. Having visited private gun owners in the Czech republic, from what I've seen, they love their guns.

lizard_phunk posted:

I'm very interested in hearing some personal accounts about the UK ban. Does anyone in the UK do competition shooting at all?

Thankfully for me the two guns are practically ancient (Unique DES32 and DES69U) and only take 5 shots per magazine anyway so I guess I won't really be affected much (Norwegian here).

But this directive has to have big implications for IPSC?

Same; are there even any brits on TFR?

Also yes, both Norwegian and (even more so) Swedish IPSC shooters are very much unhappy. Capping rifle magazines at 11 shots would pretty much kill those divisions, and both Standard and Open handgun divisions would be hit hard by a 21-shot cap. On the other hand, Norway was considering implementing a WAY harsher set of rules independently before the EU gun ban came up, and decided to drop those and just follow the union, so there's sort of a silver lining.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



We used to have some Brits. I don't know where they wandered off to but they crop up now and again.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Anyone able to give a rundown of German armed self-defense law? Poking around for more info about less-lethal keeps hitting .de sources.

Animal deterrent spray seems unregulated. Anti-personnel pepper spray looks to require a license, the KWS I keep seeing referenced? The Piexon JPX seems not to require a KWS, however? But the frames with lasers are prohibited? Blank firing pistol loaded with gas charges seem surprisingly common. Are they used to look like a gun and have some gas or do they have any real merit on their own as an OC projector? How common is it really for people to carry sprays/gas dischargers?

lizard_phunk
Oct 23, 2003

Alt Girl For Norge


Butch Cassidy posted:

Blank firing pistol loaded with gas charges seem surprisingly common. Are they used to look like a gun (...)

Wow, I want to know about this as well. That'd probably get you jailed immediately in Norway.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Butch Cassidy posted:

Anyone able to give a rundown of German armed self-defense law? Poking around for more info about less-lethal keeps hitting .de sources.

Animal deterrent spray seems unregulated. Anti-personnel pepper spray looks to require a license, the KWS I keep seeing referenced? The Piexon JPX seems not to require a KWS, however? But the frames with lasers are prohibited? Blank firing pistol loaded with gas charges seem surprisingly common. Are they used to look like a gun and have some gas or do they have any real merit on their own as an OC projector? How common is it really for people to carry sprays/gas dischargers?

Well there's the slingshot channel. I'm sure he knows what's verboten.

https://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave/videos

Force de Fappe
Nov 7, 2008



lizard_phunk posted:

Wow, I want to know about this as well. That'd probably get you jailed immediately in Norway.

They're a particular German response to the need for self-protection in the Allgemeine Einrichtete Eurostaat. A good old tear gas canister with a big charge is likely to serve you better in any case.

Force de Fappe
Nov 7, 2008



European gun legislation in the "Roman" parts of the continent center around the need to enforce political stability. Don't forget that France last was in danger of a coup as late as the sixties, and political turmoil in both Italy and Spain has only recently abated. As a consequence, the limitation of civilian gun ownership has been a concern of the governments of these countries for decades, if not centuries. This is the gun politics tradition that is now beginning to spread into other European countries, even those with strong shooting and hunting cultures in the north and center.

MrTuffPaws
Feb 7, 2005



Arizona, US.

Constitutional carry throughout the state. Any person of age may carry a weapon concealed on their person. Open carry of long guns and pistols permitted, though rarely seen in the cities and suburbs.

Arizona does have CCWs which allows for concealed carrying in public parks, allowing you to skip background checks when buying a gun from an FFL, and you are able to carry in other states with reciprocity.

We also have strong state preemption laws. So strong, that they allow the State Attorney General to sue government officials who violate them. The law also demands that any fines imposed are to be paid for out of the defendants personal funds.

Things you can't do with a gun in Arizona:

You cannot fire a gun within city limits, unless it is for self defense, controlling pest animals, and a few other things that they average person won't run into.

Fire a gun on private property without permission from the owner.

You are barred from entering into private businesses that have a specific type of no guns sign. If you violate this, they can ask you to leave. If you don' the you can get arrested for trespassing.

Carry or shoot on an Indian Reservation. Indian Reservations make up a gently caress ton of Arizona. They are considered separate countries with their own laws, but are also subject to federal laws. Driving through with a gun under your shirt is fine. Stopping for gas though, that is a grey area.

You can't take them into secure areas. Basically anything with a metal detector at the door, but there is a law on the books stating that any secure area must also allow for safe storage of a person's firearm while they are in the secure area. Basically gun lockers where people can store their guns while in a courtroom or other location that is considered secured. Sadly, not all secure locations honor this law.

And for some reason, if you don't have a CCW, you cannot take a concealed weapon into a public park. Something to do with the language of the bill.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



Texas

Concealed carry and open carry of handguns is legal throughout the state with a shall-issue permit, which takes less than a month to get. The legislature just reduced the price for permit applications and renewals. Permitless carry is legal for rifles, but outside of weird people protesting, you don't see it in populated areas. Open carry of handguns is rather rare too, despite the amount of political capital spent a couple years ago to make it legal. About 1% of adults in Texas have a permit. Carry is legal in most places, and the number of statutorily-prohibited locations has steadily gotten smaller in the past 22 years since the law allowing concealed carry was was passed. I've even carried on the floor of the Texas House and Senate (you get to skip the security line to get in the Capitol if you present your carry license.) Permitless carry is legal in your vehicle. Permitless carry elsewhere has fairly good odds of passing within the next few years.

Any firearm that's legal federally is legal by state law. Silencers are now legal for hunting game animals. Texas carry licenses meet the requirement for a NICS (federal background) check exemption when buying a gun from a dealer, and private sales between Texas residents without involving a dealer are legal.

Texas is also full, so don't come here.

MrTuffPaws
Feb 7, 2005



Craptacular posted:

Texas

Concealed carry and open carry of handguns is legal throughout the state with a shall-issue permit, which takes less than a month to get. The legislature just reduced the price for permit applications and renewals. Permitless carry is legal for rifles, but outside of weird people protesting, you don't see it in populated areas. Open carry of handguns is rather rare too, despite the amount of political capital spent a couple years ago to make it legal. About 1% of adults in Texas have a permit. Carry is legal in most places, and the number of statutorily-prohibited locations has steadily gotten smaller in the past 22 years since the law allowing concealed carry was was passed. I've even carried on the floor of the Texas House and Senate (you get to skip the security line to get in the Capitol if you present your carry license.) Permitless carry is legal in your vehicle. Permitless carry elsewhere has fairly good odds of passing within the next few years.

Any firearm that's legal federally is legal by state law. Silencers are now legal for hunting game animals. Texas carry licenses meet the requirement for a NICS (federal background) check exemption when buying a gun from a dealer, and private sales between Texas residents without involving a dealer are legal.

Texas is also full, so don't come here.

Do you still have the carry a gun in a bar and get a felony law with the accompanying 3'x5' signs?

JRay88
Jan 4, 2013


Alabama:



Shall issuer carry permits. They also let you skip NICS at a dealer (their discretion, I've seen places that won't do it for first timers). Fees vary county to county, the county I live in is $20/year with a max term of 5 years. Just north in Jefferson county's to only $7.50/year. We do have the normal gun-free zones though and licenses don't exempt you from that. Supposedly we're looking at permitless carry sometime on the near future.

NFA: all legal here. No hunting with happy switches, but suppressors are A-OK. Most state management lands also have shooting ranges that are open to the public, so long as you have a fishing/hunting license or a wildlife heritage license, all of which are less than $25.


In Talladega we have the CMP range. It's nice and new. They have tons of steel at various ranges and plenty of pistol bays and a sporting clays range! In Anniston the CMP even has a store. Highly recommend a walkthrough if you're ever near.

Dogbrisket
Jun 10, 2009



California:

Does it go bang? It's probably banned or restricted according to some set of byzantine regulations.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



MrTuffPaws posted:

Do you still have the carry a gun in a bar and get a felony law with the accompanying 3'x5' signs?

Yes, if a business gets 51% or more of its revenue from the sale of alcohol for on-premises consumption, then carry there is illegal. It's legal to carry where in liquor stores where 51% or more of revenue is from alcohol sales, but where on-premises consumption is illegal, and it's legal to carry in normal restaurants that have a liquor license. Just not bars. Don't be carry while intoxicated, no matter where you are. There's no legal minimum like for DWI.

The way the wording of the law is written though needs to be updated, because it's 51% of sales by the business holding the liquor license, not 51% of sales by all businesses at that location. For example, last I checked, carry isn't legal in the Texas State Aquarium because they have a subcontractor with a liquor license. The aquarium doesn't make 51% of its revenue from liquor sales, but the subcontracting vendor does, so carry is illegal there. This is even though liquor isn't sold there most of the time, only for private after-hours parties when the aquarium is rented out. It's really stupid and hopefully will be fixed next legislative session.

I'm hoping they'll pass the bill which will allow licensees to carry anywhere a peace officer can, which will fix that problem and a lot of others too. The legislature has been farting around with dumb stuff like open carry instead.

Craptacular fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Aug 3, 2017

MrTuffPaws
Feb 7, 2005



Dogbrisket posted:

California:

Does it go bang? It's probably banned or restricted according to some set of byzantine regulations.

Not quite. Black powder guns are legal and not considered a firearm, unlike New Jersey. Air guns are unrestricted last time I was there, too. Also rimfire guns don't have the Roberti-Roos restrictions, other than 10 round magazines, iirc.*









* Subject to the CalDOJ's or the Legislators' will.

Fog Tripper
Mar 3, 2008

by Smythe


If this means all USA supplied firearms come back home where they belong, I say gently caress the EU.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Fog Tripper posted:

If this means all USA supplied firearms come back home where they belong, I say gently caress the EU.

As someone with gun owning friends who live in Europe, I can't disagree with this more.

Fog Tripper
Mar 3, 2008

by Smythe


Cyrano4747 posted:

As someone with gun owning friends who live in Europe, I can't disagree with this more.

Well then, lets dismantle the EU then they will not be able to do these things!
(They are still welcome to send us all the US milsurp. I will keep them from harming EU members)

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

lizard_phunk posted:

I'm very interested in hearing some personal accounts about the UK ban. Does anyone in the UK do competition shooting at all?

All the Brits came to Australia after Dunblane.

Pursesnatcher posted:

Also yes, both Norwegian and (even more so) Swedish IPSC shooters are very much unhappy. Capping rifle magazines at 11 shots would pretty much kill those divisions, and both Standard and Open handgun divisions would be hit hard by a 21-shot cap.

We deal with it.

On your home soil you're competing against everyone else with 10 rounders so NBD.
When you travel internationally for a match the squad will buy and/or borrow high cap mags in the host country and return them before they leave.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Certified Centrist Trash


How about they send us their milsurp? Like, say, Ljungmans?

NickBlasta
May 16, 2003

Clearly their proficiency at shooting is supernatural, not practical, in origin.


lizard_phunk posted:

I'm very interested in hearing some personal accounts about the UK ban. Does anyone in the UK do competition shooting at all?

Thankfully for me the two guns are practically ancient (Unique DES32 and DES69U) and only take 5 shots per magazine anyway so I guess I won't really be affected much (Norwegian here).

But this directive has to have big implications for IPSC?

IPSC is dead in the UK, there's almost no competition whatsoever. The biggest disciplines are all shotgun related because it's still relatively easy to get a shotgun.

Handgun is dead, because you can't really easily get one. They do airsoft handgun like in Asia. Rifle is functionally dead because of the prohibition on semi-auto ownership. The handful of people that still compete do so with straight-pull ARs in IPSC's manual-op division.

Pursesnatcher
Oct 23, 2016



Grimey Drawer

Oh, totally forgot; silencers are totally A-OK in... most of Europe? I guess? In Norway, at least, you can buy as many as you want and use them for anything up to and including garden gnomes, if you so desire. The guv'ment realized early on how nice they are for protecting people's hearing.

~Coxy posted:

On your home soil you're competing against everyone else with 10 rounders so NBD.

As if magazines weren't expensive enough already, now we'll need three times as many of the drat things, plus pouches?

NickBlasta posted:

IPSC is dead in the UK, there's almost no competition whatsoever. The biggest disciplines are all shotgun related because it's still relatively easy to get a shotgun.

Handgun is dead, because you can't really easily get one. They do airsoft handgun like in Asia. Rifle is functionally dead because of the prohibition on semi-auto ownership. The handful of people that still compete do so with straight-pull ARs in IPSC's manual-op division.

That's even worse than I thought. How about things like ISSF Rapid Fire Pistol?

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

Pursesnatcher posted:

As if magazines weren't expensive enough already, now we'll need three times as many of the drat things, plus pouches?


Presumably you'll be flush with cash after the buybacks, right? Right?

(I think the 97 UK buyback was actually quite generous from what people have told me.)

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




22 Eargesplitten posted:

How about they send us their milsurp? Like, say, Ljungmans?

Nowadays the trend is to destroy it all out of pure spite.

astropika
Jul 5, 2007
no, not really

Pursesnatcher posted:

That's even worse than I thought. How about things like ISSF Rapid Fire Pistol?

Pistols are completely totally banned in the UK, even rimfire.

There was a special exemption granted for the 2012 olympics, from 2009 an "Elite Cartridge Pistol Squad" was granted exemptions to practice prior to the games. Since that expired olympic pistol shooters in the UK go to Switzerland to practice, as they have done since the ban in 97.

madeintaipei
Jul 13, 2012



I seem to remember user Baconroll showing his UK legal .22 1911 a few years back. Super long barrel with a weight on a rod hanging off the back to bring total length up to legal.

Pursesnatcher
Oct 23, 2016



Grimey Drawer

I came across this beauty a while back:



...and immediately thought it had to be some kind of UK-legal thingmabob, due to the length. Turns out it was just for some CAS enthusiast. Also thought UK shooters could practice in their own country, if they were just serious enough about it. Didn't know it was that bad.

~Coxy posted:

Presumably you'll be flush with cash after the buybacks, right? Right?

(I think the 97 UK buyback was actually quite generous from what people have told me.)

Buybacks? On this latitude, they're more likely to just impose the ban, let a year or two pass, and then run an amnesty so you can turn your stuff over without facing charges.

Grumbletron 4000
Nov 30, 2002

Where you want it, bitch.

College Slice

Pennsylvania is pretty gun friendly. Concealed carry is shall issue. As long as you don't have a criminal record, it's a $20 fee and you'll have your card within the week. Open carry where legal. Which is pretty much anywhere aside from government buildings and schools. However, if you don't have a CC permit it's illegal to transport a weapon. Unless it's to or from from the range, a point of sale or for repair. And even then the gun must not be loaded and the magazines and ammo must be in a separate container.

Not sure about the hunting regulations but if you have a CC permit, go hog wild.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



Pursesnatcher posted:

I came across this beauty a while back:



...and immediately thought it had to be some kind of UK-legal thingmabob, due to the length. Turns out it was just for some CAS enthusiast. Also thought UK shooters could practice in their own country, if they were just serious enough about it. Didn't know it was that bad.


Buybacks? On this latitude, they're more likely to just impose the ban, let a year or two pass, and then run an amnesty so you can turn your stuff over without facing charges.

English gun laws are oddly among the only ones that ever made much practical sense to me, require all guns to be super long so it's near impossible to shoot yourself cause, well, you're living in England. Who wouldn't.

Pursesnatcher
Oct 23, 2016



Grimey Drawer

Sounds like it's not all bad outside California (and possibly NY?) – how much is due to state culture, and how much is due to lobbying?

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

English gun laws are oddly among the only ones that ever made much practical sense to me, require all guns to be super long so it's near impossible to shoot yourself cause, well, you're living in England. Who wouldn't.

True enough; they're consistent if nothing else.

What weirds me out the most here is something I think even the EU gun ban includes: The restriction on number of various guns. If you're cleared for 40 handguns, I fail to understand why 41 is so much worse. I mean, the whole basis for our permits is that we need a "worthy justification", meaning either sport or hunting, but that still doesn't add any sense to the number limit.

Once we do get permits, though, they're practically for life. You only pay to have your application processed; it's about $125 for the first one, while subsequent ones are $70. Processing time varies from a couple of weeks to several months.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

The Suffering of the Succotash.


Pursesnatcher posted:

Sounds like it's not all bad outside California (and possibly NY?) – how much is due to state culture, and how much is due to lobbying?

It's largely a cultural thing. Yeah, there's plenty of lobbying going on, but it's nowhere near the scale of corporate megabucks that led to our absolutely outrageous IP laws.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



Pursesnatcher posted:

If you're cleared for 40 handguns, I fail to understand why 41 is so much worse.

The same reason that 10 rounds in a magazine is OK, but 11 must mean you just want to go on a murder spree.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Craptacular posted:

The same reason that 10 rounds in a magazine is OK, but 11 must mean you just want to go on a murder spree.

12 men on a jury. Coincidence?

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moosepoop
Mar 9, 2007

GET SWOLE


Sten Freak posted:

This mean moose poop is gonna lose his Swedish Ks?

I hope not. I will know more in January 2018 when they have figured out a suggestion for how these laws will be implemented in Sweden.

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