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Oscar Wilde Bunch
Jun 12, 2012



Grimey Drawer

If all guns with braces become subject to the NFA wonder if they're going to have to open a DB for grandfathering guns, seems like it would be open season to get SBRs/SBSs.

Too bad the rumor'd 'We're going to actually try to do something about people who fail background checks for real' isn't in there.

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infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:

If all guns with braces become subject to the NFA wonder if they're going to have to open a DB for grandfathering guns, seems like it would be open season to get SBRs/SBSs.

Yeah, this is sort of what I'm hoping if arm braces are banned. I'd throw my two AR pistols in for a stamp, especially if it was free and/or expedited.

But I feel like that may be too much to hope for.

And it's not going to keep anyone from making an AR pistol or unregistered SBR.

JRay88
Jan 4, 2013


If they do make pistol braces NFA they’re probably going to face a lawsuit from an ADA perspective. While the general gun owning public has abused the “pistol brace” for awhile, it doesn’t mean they don’t have a legitimate use. I’ll be very interested to see how this all plays out. I doubt any courts would overturn a new “interpretation” that would make concealable rifles NFA, but hey stranger things have happened.

Akion
May 7, 2006


Grimey Drawer

I don't know that the case would win or not, but hoo boy that would be good reading. Either they say "Yes, these things have a legitimate purposes" or "Turns out 2A doesn't apply to disabled people".

Guess it'll depend which circuit hears it.

DeesGrandpa
Oct 21, 2009



The brace makers went away from ADA stuff. The Sig brace might have that argument, but a lot of the rest towards recent time have pretty much stopped even the winking that it's a stabilizing brace. Lots of us have been saying it for years, those of us in states where SBRs were permitted should have been filing. The I'm Not Touching You NFA poo poo was always going to go the way of bumpstocks.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




I'd love a braced AR, but I've seen this coming for a while. I don't want a very expensive range toy to turn into a felony and/or a shitload of paperwork + stamps.

Yond Cassius
May 22, 2010

horny is prohibited

Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:

Too bad the rumor'd 'We're going to actually try to do something about people who fail background checks for real' isn't in there.

Gun crime cleanup begins at home. Is he going to order the Justice Department to start prosecuting people who lie on 4473s?

NightGyr
Mar 7, 2005
I � Unicode

Is the main argument for brace legality at this point that there are too many out there and a ton of folks will be screwed?

I really haven't seen anyone using them in good faith as anything but a legal loophole stock.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


There's a million braced pistols in CA that would be in a tough spot since SBRs are prohibido.

MomJeans420
Mar 19, 2007





Oh the irony, this is what happens when your speechwriter(s) never took constitutional law:



(explanation)

((or else they know this is wrong but will resonate with 99.9% of the population))

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
Check out my hot takes because I'm a straight white male

Yond Cassius posted:

Gun crime cleanup begins at home. Is he going to order the Justice Department to start prosecuting people who lie on 4473s?

I'm gonna admit I'm dumb, but lying how, typically? Straw purchases? Residency?

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

Enter the woods, find a friend!


Akion posted:

I don't know that the case would win or not, but hoo boy that would be good reading. Either they say "Yes, these things have a legitimate purposes" or "Turns out 2A doesn't apply to disabled people".

Guess it'll depend which circuit hears it.

I've been hearing that there are already folks preparing for court on this, and one of them is a one armed veteran.

MomJeans420 posted:

Oh the irony, this is what happens when your speechwriter(s) never took constitutional law:



(explanation)

((or else they know this is wrong but will resonate with 99.9% of the population))

Bold to suggest these folks give a gently caress about the constitution or law.

ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

Dick Burglar posted:

I'm gonna admit I'm dumb, but lying how, typically? Straw purchases? Residency?

His son Hunter Biden bought a handgun and lied on the 4473, and so illegally obtained a handgun while being a prohibited person

which is a felony

But hey gun laws are for you lowly peons not the elite

ZebraBlade fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Apr 8, 2021

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

NightGyr posted:

Is the main argument for brace legality at this point that there are too many out there and a ton of folks will be screwed?

I really haven't seen anyone using them in good faith as anything but a legal loophole stock.

Yes, basically. It’s why I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if the ATF just says you can keep them but if you shoulder it, you’re a felon or something.

That way someone who actually uses the brace “as intended” is good to go, and people trying to loophole an SBR either take less selfies or shoot it like a pistol or maybe just build a rifle out of it.

E: what was Hunter Boden’s 4473 violation? Drugs?

If it was just drugs, I expect that to go nowhere media-wise. It is the 4473 question that gun buyers notoriously lie about. Hell, this forum used to be pretty ripe with posts about weed and other drugs and gun ownership before people realized that was a terribly unwise thing to post about online.

mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Apr 8, 2021

CommanderApaul
Aug 30, 2003

It's amazing their hands can support such awesome.


Dick Burglar posted:

I'm gonna admit I'm dumb, but lying how, typically? Straw purchases? Residency?

The usual one is "user of or addicted to drugs" question.

The real kicker is that every NICS denial is a potential felony charge. Every reason that NICS would return a deny on the check is covered by the questions on the 4473, so if you got a deny, you lied. Now that's not anywhere close to accurate since you may have been totally honest and just not known about a reason that you were denied, like you were charged with something that was a misdemeanor in the 60's* that is now a felony in the 2010/20's, which would trigger an NICS hold or deny. But an NICS deny would probably be probable cause enough for the FBI/ATF to charge every single one of them if they really wanted to.

* My dad bought his first gun about 10 years ago when he was in his late 60s. NICS returned a Delay, but hadn't returned a Proceed or Deny by 3 days, so he took his little .22 home. A federal agent of some variety contacted him a week later and told him he was denied and needed to return the gun to the store, which he did. Turns out that back in the mid 60's when he was a young, mischievous lad who played pool for money, some guy who owed him money paid him back with what turned out to be stolen property. Way back then, that charge was a misdemeanor, so he did whatever the version of time was and went on to join the Air Force and go about his life, including having a TS clearance in the private sector to do work on Ticonderoga class cruisers and something or other at the Pentagon. Well that charge today is potentially a felony, depending on the amount involved, but he didn't know that at the time. He ended up getting a lawyer who did some legal magic that fixed his NICS record, and now he has a happy family of Glocks in the house.

MomJeans420
Mar 19, 2007





Capn Beeb posted:

Bold to suggest these folks give a gently caress about the constitution or law.

There's also that

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




So what was actually announced?

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

Enter the woods, find a friend!


Nothing that will actually curb crime or violence.

A lot of poo poo that will put the brunt on marginalized peoples seeking to adequately defend themselves.

Biden wants one of the people who posed in front of the charred corpses of women and children at Waco to head the ATF.

So about what you'd expect.

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




A lot of stuff that has a lot of people up in arms.

Though were I to play devils advocate, what is the purpose of a brace other than to skirt the NFA tax stamp on an SBR?

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

Enter the woods, find a friend!


lite_sleepr posted:

A lot of stuff that has a lot of people up in arms.

Though were I to play devils advocate, what is the purpose of a brace other than to skirt the NFA tax stamp on an SBR?

Disabilities.

Steeltalon
Feb 14, 2012

Perps were uncooperative.




lite_sleepr posted:

A lot of stuff that has a lot of people up in arms.

Though were I to play devils advocate, what is the purpose of a brace other than to skirt the NFA tax stamp on an SBR?

Make it easier for people to shoot one handed, particularly if you have disabilities. It has an actual legitimate use.

JRay88
Jan 4, 2013


Wasn’t there a member here who was making some braces for their diabetic/arm amputee father to shoot an Uzi?

DeesGrandpa
Oct 21, 2009



Braces started as a disability thing but left that behind pretty quickly. Most of them now are legit just slightly shittier stocks and are used as such, sucks for the people that got a benefit out of things like the Sig brace but framing it as a crusade against the disabled would be pretty loving goofy in light of how (almost) all of them were sold and used. Don't envy those enjoying the wait times going forward for stamps.

Ice Fist
Jun 20, 2012

^^ Please send feedback to beefstache911@hotmail.com, this is not a joke that 'stache is the real deal. Serious assessments only. ^^


Have they explained the "ghost gun" thing yet and does it prevent people from say building an AR15 or do we not really know yet?

DeesGrandpa
Oct 21, 2009



Ice Fist posted:

Have they explained the "ghost gun" thing yet and does it prevent people from say building an AR15 or do we not really know yet?

80%s, so if you were buying an 80 and finishing it yourself yeah thats the target. This also includes the P80 and other totally not a gun, lets include all the parts, drill bits, and jig kits.

stgdz
Nov 3, 2006

158 grains of smiley powered justice

Yeah it's one of those things where you wave your finger at the govt long enough other people will feel the full weight of that on their knecks.



See coal rollers and the rpm bullshit.

Kadath
Aug 17, 2004

Put Your 'Lectric Eye On Me, Babe

Grimey Drawer

I’m really curious how the “ghost gun” thing is actually going to be worded as well, because I don’t think that the ATF can redefine the definition of a gun since that was defined legislatively, and I don’t know how they would require anyone who builds a firearm at home to register it and undergo a background check without also creating legislation. I’m sure they have something in the works though.

I’m also sure that the only people who will be effected by this law will be people who are caught using a ghost gun in a crime and the charge being used to threaten extra years to extract a plea bargain.

The biggest thing I hate is all of the news articles constantly say that its legal for felons to build and own ghost guns, which is absolutely not true but makes them sound a lot more dangerous so I guess thats the point.

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

Enter the woods, find a friend!


Kadath posted:

The biggest thing I hate is all of the news articles constantly say that its legal for felons to build and own ghost guns, which is absolutely not true but makes them sound a lot more dangerous so I guess thats the point.

It absolutely is. Consent manufacturing is a hell of a tool.

Edit:

Even Politifact is calling this poo poo out.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/apr/08/joe-biden/gun-policy-address-joe-biden-was-wrong-about-backg/

Also cool of Biden to say the quiet part loud.



But what do you expect from a loving racist.

Capn Beeb fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Apr 9, 2021

madeintaipei
Jul 13, 2012



DeesGrandpa posted:

Braces started as a disability thing but left that behind pretty quickly. Most of them now are legit just slightly shittier stocks and are used as such, sucks for the people that got a benefit out of things like the Sig brace but framing it as a crusade against the disabled would be pretty loving goofy in light of how (almost) all of them were sold and used. Don't envy those enjoying the wait times going forward for stamps.

There is precedent to make a carve-out for people with disabilities in this case anyway: automatic knives were always legal for one handed people, one armed people, and people with partial function in one hand or arm to import, buy, possess, carry, and transport across state lines. IIRC, one would need a signed statement from a doctor as to need.

One the one hand (ugh), you got one hand. On the other, your can ignore Federal law.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


Somebody Awful posted:

So what was actually announced?
As was linked previously.

Steeltalon posted:

It's was leaked. Executive Actions, not orders. So, it's barely a step above literally doing nothing.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...ealth-epidemic/
I'd be curious to see what this proposed rule to stop the proliferation of "ghost guns" is. The ATF has already run into trouble with "What is a receiver?" already... without additional legislation to update or clarify that definition they're going to be stretching even further, so perhaps the rule will go after something else.
Edit: Might as well link so it's all in one place, though most of this has been linked in thread:
President Biden's remarks on Gun Violence Prevention
Vice President Harris's remarks on Gun Violence Prevention

Fact Sheet/Details on Investments in Community Violence Interventions
Link no longer works; it's even down on the politifact website
https://www.politifact.com/

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Apr 9, 2021

Yond Cassius
May 22, 2010

horny is prohibited

BeAuMaN posted:

Link no longer works; it's even down on the politifact website
https://www.politifact.com/


Might have been a glitch or some kind of cache/content propagation lag; it works fine over here.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


Yond Cassius posted:

Might have been a glitch or some kind of cache/content propagation lag; it works fine over here.
Must be something; still no luck through incognito.

Edit: No luck through my phone using its cellular connection either. Maybe Politifact can't propagate its ratings to the west coast

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Apr 9, 2021

The Bananana
May 21, 2008

This is a metaphor, a Christian allegory. The fact that I have to explain to you that Jesus is the Warthog, and the Banana is drepanocytosis is just embarrassing for you.





What if you could get a permit for the Brace, if a doctor confirmed you had a physical disability or need for the Brace?

Like the card you hang on your rear view mirror for handicap parking.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




BeAuMaN posted:

Link no longer works; it's even down on the politifact website

Working for me.

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




Steeltalon posted:

Make it easier for people to shoot one handed, particularly if you have disabilities. It has an actual legitimate use.


Capn Beeb posted:

Disabilities.

This is why it's good to ask questions. Able bodied as I am I didn't see a purpose for braces outside of my scenario.

I imagine those confined to wheelchairs or braces needed to walk may appreciate something like a brace to shoot rifles or PCCs. It's always good to ask, and so I'll donate funds to the SAF.

Dip Viscous
Sep 17, 2019



There's a guy at my range with nerve damage in his left arm and a braced pistol + single point sling to push out against is the difference between whether or not he can do things with the AR platform other than shoot benched.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


The Bananana posted:

What if you could get a permit for the Brace, if a doctor confirmed you had a physical disability or need for the Brace?

Like the card you hang on your rear view mirror for handicap parking.
In theory such a scheme could be promulgated; how it would be enforced or how effective it would be (and how it would interact with state laws) is another issue.

That doesn't resolve what happens with current owners of braces though.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

Most of what this does is to tell agencies “go write a report and come back in 30-60 days with your report.”

Otherwise some administrative money movements (not bills), and a call for legislature to do things.

The report writing can certainly be read with the same emphasis that it was read when Trump directed the DOJ to consider the bumpstock, and then the DOJ changed its mind on them.

THE BIG DOG DADDY
Oct 16, 2013

Rasheed was, with Aliases, the top 7 PvPers in Bone Krew.


No one talks about this.


Why is it that felons who have served their time and reintegrated back into society can't enjoy the right to vote or own guns, again?

Oh right, we live in a society that thrives on lifelong punishment.

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Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
Check out my hot takes because I'm a straight white male

THE BIG DOG DADDY posted:

Why is it that felons who have served their time and reintegrated back into society can't enjoy the right to vote or own guns, again?

Oh right, we live in a society that thrives on lifelong punishment.

Also known as retributive (rather than rehabilitative) justice. Americans love them some retribution--it's why the Punisher resonates so well with so many folks involved in the ~justice~ system.

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