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Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


Americans made a novel series based on the Book of Revelations (Left Behind) for entertainment and it sold like crazy

Retribution is our religion

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ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

THE BIG DOG DADDY posted:

Why is it that felons who have served their time and reintegrated back into society can't enjoy the right to vote or own guns, again?

Oh right, we live in a society that thrives on lifelong punishment.

There might be a different sentiment regarding this if the re-offense rate wasn't extremely high.

RangerScum
Apr 6, 2006

lol hey there buddy


ZebraBlade posted:

There might be a different sentiment regarding this if the re-offense rate wasn't extremely high.

Sure, and the re-offense rate being so high is one of the best indicators that our justice system is completely broken and not at all centered around rehabilitation.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

ZebraBlade posted:

There might be a different sentiment regarding this if the re-offense rate wasn't extremely high.

Sorry, you canít vote on school funding, because you might steal electronics again someday.

At least voting access is making some real headway lately. Especially when itís automatically reinstated or never taken away at all.

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES



ZebraBlade posted:

There might be a different sentiment regarding this if the re-offense rate wasn't extremely high.

The re-offense rate wouldnít be anywhere near as high as it is if people with criminal records werenít stripped of rights and locked out of the majority of forms of gainful employment, forcing them to return to crime out of desperation.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Did Chipman ever actually say that anyone who fails a background check should be arrested before they commit a crime? That bit of information is making the Facebook rounds and it smells like BS but I haven't been able to confirm it anywhere so far.

Zarin
Nov 11, 2008

I SEE YOU


Nomyth posted:

Americans made a novel series based on the Book of Revelations (Left Behind) for entertainment and it sold like crazy

Retribution is our religion

I never did read it, although I was pretty active in my church youth group when it was getting popular and there was a pretty clear divide where some people thought it was great and some people thought it was inappropriate.

Was it worth reading?

Akion
May 7, 2006


Grimey Drawer

Zarin posted:

I never did read it, although I was pretty active in my church youth group when it was getting popular and there was a pretty clear divide where some people thought it was great and some people thought it was inappropriate.

Was it worth reading?

I worked in a book store when it came out and they sold pretty well in our rural corner of Georgia. IIRC it was basically Divinity Porn for people that assumed they'd be the ones getting raptured and not the ones getting raped by a million demon dicks.

Hed
Mar 31, 2004



Fun Shoe

Just watch The Leftovers on HBO.

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
Check out my hot takes because I'm a straight white male

Nomyth posted:

Americans made a novel series based on the Book of Revelations (Left Behind) for entertainment and it sold like crazy

Retribution is our religion

Everybody gets this wrong--it's the Book of Revelation. Singular, no S.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Dick Burglar posted:

Everybody gets this wrong--it's the Book of Revelation. Singular, no S.

It's also Daylight Saving (singular) Time, but eh, what are you gonna do?

Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


Thank you, I haven't touched a (B)bible in decades

Anyways it's pretty interesting to see American history getting cyclical again with the same rhetoric that was used against alcohol and then socialism and then drugs, a Puritan witch hunt where touching the other side makes you a heretic

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Zarin posted:

Was it worth reading?
It's a lovely knockoff The Stand for people who thought Stephen King was possessed by demons. If that sounds appealing then have at it I guess.

Yond Cassius
May 22, 2010

horny is prohibited

Zarin posted:

Was it worth reading?

Better to read Fred Clark's read-along and teardown (collected here, starting here). The series is really quite bad, even as a page turner, but digging into the theological underpinnings is horrifying (and exhausting - Fred ran out of steam back in 2016, I think three or four volumes in).

Yond Cassius fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Apr 9, 2021

Roll Fizzlebeef
Sep 9, 2003




Hed posted:

Just watch The Leftovers on HBO.

This is good advice

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




Are they going after online ammo sales now?

What the HECC? Of all things democrats do why is gun control at the forefront of their legislation?

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


lite_sleepr posted:

Are they going after online ammo sales now?

What the HECC? Of all things democrats do why is gun control at the forefront of their legislation?
Post your source. Do you mean the HR 1207, which requires Face-to-Face for ammo sales and dealers to record those who purchase more than 1000 rounds at one time or within 5 consecutive business days?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1207/text?r=7&s=1

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




Yes. HR 1207. gently caress that bill.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




Nomyth posted:

Thank you, I haven't touched a (B)bible in decades

Anyways it's pretty interesting to see American history getting cyclical again with the same rhetoric that was used against alcohol and then socialism and then drugs, a Puritan witch hunt where touching the other side makes you a heretic

One thing that always stuck with me was said by all the British people in my immediate family who became American citizens.

They were very reserved, buttoned down folks who pretty much fit most of the stereotypes. But they constantly mentioned, "America never got over the Puritans." Coming from them, it made young me go

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

Enter the woods, find a friend!


lite_sleepr posted:

Are they going after online ammo sales now?

What the HECC? Of all things democrats do why is gun control at the forefront of their legislation?

Because anything actually progressive they could do would suggest poor and marginalized people actually deserve help rather than empty platitudes, and perish the thought. Could you imagine? Lifting up instead of punching down? My gosh, what a concept!

So instead they just do whatever their millionaire celebrity donors and wine moms from six figure gated communities tell them to do.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




Let's cool it with the hot takes and hot collars. I know poo poo sucks but this doesn't help anybody.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

Edit: Post above didnít exist when I started this reply; never mind!

lite_sleepr posted:

Of all things democrats do why is gun control at the forefront of their legislation?

It isnít at the forefront. Even remotely. Just seems that way on a gun forum.

At the forefront:
The 1.9T COVID relief plan
A huge defense budget (753B proposed)
Infrastructure plan (contentious, 1-2T)
Labor Rights Bill (slim chances in senate)

Distant whatever-th - a bunch of gun bills, ranging from 100% DOA in committee to passing house with marginal but plausible chances in senate.

On an antigun forum (do those exist with meaningful membership?) I bet the arglebargle is that gun bills are being ignored by the legislature.

But invested or professional gun control advocates arenít despairing too too much, because they know the real fight is in the states, not longshot political ad fodder bills that die in committee or in the house.

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

Enter the woods, find a friend!


Somebody Awful posted:

Let's cool it with the hot takes and hot collars. I know poo poo sucks but this doesn't help anybody.

Neither does what Biden and his donors want.

https://twitter.com/LatinoRifleOrg/status/1380270459845926913

Unless we're fine with the head of the ATF being one of the pieces of poo poo that posed in front of burned out corpses of women and children like he was on loving safari.

JRay88
Jan 4, 2013


Capn Beeb posted:

Neither does what Biden and his donors want.

https://twitter.com/LatinoRifleOrg/status/1380270459845926913

Unless we're fine with the head of the ATF being one of the pieces of poo poo that posed in front of burned out corpses of women and children like he was on loving safari.

Donít forget that on his Reddit AMA he said they shot down two govít helicopters with .50 cal Barretts.

Not a hot take, hereís the article Article.

kupachek
Aug 5, 2015

We both like to hang out in public bathrooms?!

JRay88 posted:

Donít forget that on his Reddit AMA he said they shot down two govít helicopters with .50 cal Barretts.

Not a hot take, hereís the article Article.

The reddit AMA in question, for those who don't want to click on a NewsMax link to get to it.

https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/d285va/i_am_david_chipman_giffords_courage_to_fight_gun/

The part that amuses me about the helicopter bit is in 1990 (towards the end of the Mohawk Civil War) several Mohawk men shot a National Guard helicopter in New York because it was flying over their territory and they just used normal rifles to put it out of commission. You don't need a heavy rifle to take out a machine that wants to fall out of the sky on it's own accord.

stgdz
Nov 3, 2006

158 grains of smiley powered justice

I feel like the Biden admins feels like they need to take action, the EA's were low hanging fruit that we all knew was coming, but the atf director nominee has made it infinetly worse. The gop is going to fire up their media machine and get the populace riled up.

Maybe that's a strategy for the Dems so people can focus on guns while the rest of the priorities listed above get through.


At least PA sees the writing on the wall as they are discounting all their ar pistols.

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

Enter the woods, find a friend!


stgdz posted:

I feel like the Biden admins feels like they need to take action, the EA's were low hanging fruit that we all knew was coming, but the atf director nominee has made it infinetly worse. The gop is going to fire up their media machine and get the populace riled up.

Maybe that's a strategy for the Dems so people can focus on guns while the rest of the priorities listed above get through.


At least PA sees the writing on the wall as they are discounting all their ar pistols.

The current priority: A bigger defense budget than Trump ever wanted. Despite the US military being the biggest polluter on the loving planet.

I've taken shits with more substance to them than the hollow gestures this administration is offering towards progress.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




General reminder that this thread does have rules and while I've been pretty hands-off about them lately, they are still on the books.

Cyrano4747 posted:

Post anything about a politician that isn't 110% directly related to guns at your own peril. This is a free fire zone as far as my mod powers are concerned. I don't care if Merkle just pegged Corbyn while Trump and Trudeau watched and tugged each other off, if it wasn't part of ongoing negotiations re: gun control it doesn't belong in this thread.

Note that this also isn't where you complain about how awful a political party is because of its ongoing support of gun control. Talk about the regulations, talk about who is making them, talk about what the effects on gun owners can be, that's fine. If all you have to contribute is your deep thoughts on how much some party sucks, take it to D&D. Yes this is subjective, yes I will error on the side of gently caress you.

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

Enter the woods, find a friend!


We're still talking about guns.

Dip Viscous
Sep 17, 2019



Wasn't "80% = gun" already successfully challenged on the grounds that no part of a lot of modern rifles meets the legal definition of a receiver, as opposed to the ATF's made up definition? Or did I dream that?

Akion
May 7, 2006


Grimey Drawer

There was at least one case in California that they bailed on when it looked like the judge might rule that a lower =/= a gun.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


Dip Viscous posted:

Wasn't "80% = gun" already successfully challenged on the grounds that no part of a lot of modern rifles meets the legal definition of a receiver, as opposed to the ATF's made up definition? Or did I dream that?

Akion posted:

There was at least one case in California that they bailed on when it looked like the judge might rule that a lower =/= a gun.
Don't have it offhand but yeah someone was running a 80% builder shop kind of thing in CA, they got charged with probably at least a decade of prison, and then the lawyer representing the accused wrote a defense that the definition of what a receiver is is not well defined, has changed, and may not have that much basis in statute... specifically that AR-15 receivers are split, and that assigning one piece or the other as the controlled receiver is kind of arbitrary; the judge agreed. DoJ NOPED the hell out of that and settled; the guy got like 3 years probation I think because they didn't want the case going forward to possibly even set precedent because it had the potential to wreck their current regs, and who knows if/when Congress would pass any legislation afterward.

Edit: Oh found it. Yeah, Joseph Roh
https://sites.law.duq.edu/juris/2020/04/14/recent-federal-prosecutions-threaten-to-expose-years-long-misapplication-of-law-by-atf/

quote:

In 2018, OíKelly testified for the defense in a trial concerning possession and manufacture of AR-15 lower receivers. In this case, Joseph Roh ran a company that manufactured unfinished lower receivers into finished receivers and assembled them into functioning AR-15s without a federal firearms license. After a bench trial, Judge James Selna, for the U.S. District Court for Central District of California, issued a tentative order in 2019, after one year of deliberation, in which he determined that the ATF had improperly classified AR-15 lower receivers as firearms and that the combination of federal law and regulation governing the manufacture of receivers is unconstitutionally vague. Roh was found to have sold complete firearms without a license, but ultimately took a plea deal in which Roh to plead guilty to the charge against him in exchange for staying out of legal trouble for one year; then he could withdraw the guilty plea and the case would be dismissed. According to CNN, sources familiar with the agreement stated that the intent of the deal was to avoid the judgeís order becoming permanent, creating caselaw and drawing publicity that would undermine gun control efforts.
Plea deal down to 1 year of good behavior with withdrawl of guilty plea and case dismissal. References in article.

Dan O'Kelly doing the needful.

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Apr 10, 2021

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


I would have fallen on that sword.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Shaocaholica posted:

I would have fallen on that sword.

Too expensive, and at the time I'm not sure there would have been a lot of anti gun control money sloshing around to come to his aid.

Dip Viscous
Sep 17, 2019



BeAuMaN posted:

Edit: Oh found it. Yeah, Joseph Roh

Thanks. This is the case I was thinking of, but it's not as I remembered it.

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


I highly doubt that would have survived on appeal in any circuit. The obvious intent of the GCA is for the ATF to identify some central part of every firearm as the "frame or receiver" to act as the irreducible part of the gun for legal purposes and to host the serial & other markings.

Even if it was somehow correct on the merits that no part of the AR-15 resembles the entire definition of receiver under the GCA, the relief that everyone was salivating over, that the most popular rifle in America was beyond the scope of regulation under the main line of federal firearms law, was simply never going to happen.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


Dead Reckoning posted:

I highly doubt that would have survived on appeal in any circuit. The obvious intent of the GCA is for the ATF to identify some central part of every firearm as the "frame or receiver" to act as the irreducible part of the gun for legal purposes and to host the serial & other markings.

Even if it was somehow correct on the merits that no part of the AR-15 resembles the entire definition of receiver under the GCA, the relief that everyone was salivating over, that the most popular rifle in America was beyond the scope of regulation under the main line of federal firearms law, was simply never going to happen.
Yet, the ATF didn't want to open that box any further. And not just in United States v. Roh (C.D. California), but also in United States v. Rowold (N.D. Ohio), which Judge Carr went along with O'Kelly's reasoning. Rowold hasn't been appealed by the US DoJ to the best of my knowledge....

So what we have here is the ATF, which has the US DoJ to pursue these cases, has decided to let these cases be dismissed or plea them out on other charges instead of appealing, while at the same time they're not revising the definition that gives them such consternation. To me that looks like they're in a weak position.

Maybe they'll try to revise the receiver definition while trying to deal with the ghost gun regulatory issue

But maybe I'm reading that wrong.

Edit: For ease of reading:
US v Roh tenative ruling, meaning a non-binding ruling that some judges give out ahead of time so that each side can prepare their oral arguments better.
US v Rowold Opinion/Order

Jiminez is the other one that gets referenced I think?
Edit2: United States v Jimenez Docket (N.D. California)
Dismissal Order (In Part: Approving dismissal of receiver charge but denying dismissal of machine gun charge). United States then dropped the machine gun charge, and did file an appeal on the dismissal opinion?.... and then voluntarily withdrew it 2 months later without having pursued it.

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Apr 13, 2021

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Meanwhile forges and CNCs going turbo burrrrrr

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Gray Stormy
Dec 19, 2006



Shaocaholica posted:

Meanwhile forges and CNCs going turbo burrrrrr

Turbo brrr is how you break tools!

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