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What do Islam and being Muslim mean to you the most?
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Aug 10, 2017 01:52
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| # ¿ Feb 10, 2025 02:33 |
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Tendai posted:I'm not ignoring this, just dead-rear end tired from work and this is a heavy question - I will answer tomorrow! No worries. I'm very interested in how each person must approach al Kalima, what the English call the Word, the Greeks call Logos, and the Chinese call Dao.
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Aug 11, 2017 01:38
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Makes sense to me. I understand the importance of salvation from the bondages of sin and misfortune. In the Christian First Epistle of John, it's written that Allah is love. What you've told me suggests that love has saved your life. What are things you've learned about Islam that you'd want every non-Muslim to know? And what are things you've learned that you want every fellow Muslim to know?
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Aug 13, 2017 11:43
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It will cost the world nothing to have nobody answer your question in bad faith.your friend a dog posted:Let me take a quick guess Always a risky thing to do after you say something phobic. Edgar Allen Ho posted:The Torah tells me you're an rear end in a top hat. And there it is.
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Aug 19, 2017 23:20
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your friend a dog posted:I'm not sure what's "bad faith" about asking the OP to explain why they worship a man who brutally murdered anyone who didn't convert under him and married a 9 year old child, unless you're so insanely far left wing that anything remotely anti-Islam is contrary to you Tendai posted:Am I right in assuming that there is no answer that's going to satisfy you? Because that's what it seems like. The nature of a question in bad faith is that the asker is not interested in hearing an answer. They're asking the question for a duplicitous reason. In this case, to troll. edit: Tendai, what to you is the spirit of Muhammad's message? What did he have to say to you from the ultimate meaning? Caufman fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Aug 20, 2017 |
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Aug 20, 2017 04:32
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Who hurt you, dog, and why do you keep choosing to let that pain define you?
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Aug 21, 2017 06:42
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Aite dog. May you some day accept that your purpose while you're alive is only to love, not to inflame and be a mischief.
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Aug 21, 2017 07:07
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Don't worry about Muhammad. Only God can sort Muhammad out. You can't do a thing to him. Worry about yourself, especially if you haven't been.
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Aug 21, 2017 07:56
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No Muslim worships Muhammad, but that's a nuanced distinction you can only appreciate with good faith. Muhammad's story is complicated, and cannot be under-characterized by "He went to war and married a child bride, therefore he is a murderer and a pedophile." The people who went to war with Muhammad were not peace-loving people. The reason for Muhammad's unseemly marriages was not lust. Pre-Islamic Arabia was a more barbarous, lawless place before Muhammad with fewer protections for slaves, women, and children. He began the long process of changing a tribal, pre-written law society into an organized and more compassionate society. That never happens over night any where, so decent people in their glass houses do not start by throwing stones. I am not a Muslim and haven't read the message he transcribed, but even I can see that Islamophobes are unwitting allies of political Islamists since both believe in a reactionary interpretation of Islam.
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Aug 21, 2017 17:56
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Hazzard posted:From my perspective, it only seems to not be worship because Muslims say it isn't. Sure, reverence and worship may not look all that different from the outside. But to grasp the perspective of the other person, there's no way to get around appreciating how they understand and practice reverence versus worship. For your own convenience, you can assume a Catholic worships Mary and a Jehovah's Witness worships Jesus. But you will never understand their perspective better by concluding there.
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Aug 21, 2017 22:35
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Blah blah blah, I continue to shitpost the same point in a thread I claim not to be interested in. It's ok, dog. I still love you despite your limits and hope you will choose to live brighter tomorrow.
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Aug 22, 2017 00:27
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Your mother only wants you to grow up to be decent. Also your mother is so fat that she is worshipped in multiple religions under different names. Slavvy posted:Happily I'm an atheist so I can tell him he's a trolling fuckhead who needs to go post in YouTube comments. Only you can keep doing Atheismo's good and important work.
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Aug 22, 2017 01:39
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What is with your distaste for white liberals? Is this a MAGA thing?
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Aug 22, 2017 02:45
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No matter what color you are, dog, there are people with your pigment disappointed in you right now.
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Aug 22, 2017 03:48
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Shizmo posted:How do you defend Islam as a "religion of peace" when the very word "islam" itself means "to submit"? Practitioners of Abrahamic religions all acknowledge voluntarily sublimating one's personal (and especially selfish) will for the will of God. Spock said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." A believer says, "The will of the ultimate meaning is more important than my fleeting desires." From the outside, I can see how Islam is practiced as a religion of peace. Muhammad was very different from Jesus of Nazareth. He was born into tribal royalty and became a monarchial head of state. He used all the tools of statecraft: taxation, diplomacy, and warfare in ultima ratio. But within his state, he valued a just peace, and so remains an essential role model to many families and individuals.
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Aug 25, 2017 06:42
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Slavvy posted:I'd say if you took god out of there you could lump buddhists in as well, putting something higher before yourself is pretty common across religions AFAIK. Oh mate, how I agree with you. See you all on the other side.
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Aug 25, 2017 07:17
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With respect, is violent radicalization talked about in your close circle of fellow Muslims, and how? I don't mean someone suggesting, "Hey now is a good time to pull out all our cash and move to Raqqa." More like, "I think so-and-so's kid is withdrawing in a bad way," or, "That imam really stresses us-vs-them messages."
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Aug 28, 2017 23:55
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Josef bugman posted:Oh and this is a general "abrahamic religious" question, but I always found the idea of "I made you, ergo you must worship me" to be a bit off, is there any discussion on this? To be honest (and Lord forgive me), I don't find the mythological cosmology of the Abrahamic religions translates well anymore. I was born into it and I've come to love it, but before I could love it, I needed to see it from the outside and learn for myself what the message was/is/will be. Consider the worship of God in this way, which removes the personification of God found in Abraham and the subsequent messengers. You are a product of the universe, not a foreigner to it. Your body and psyche exist because of the non-random results of the interactions of all matter and energy since the big bang and the start of time and space. I'm likely wrong, but this is how I understand who/what Lord YHWH is, who is also popularly titled God and Allah. It is the name for the unity of everything that we, as just regular folks, can observe and talk about. I'm convinced that to worship this unity-of-everything involves using your psyche's unique (and, I'd argue, undeniable) phenomenon to assign value and make choices. The call to worship is a call to individuals to look beyond the limits of their psyches and consider their real place with respect to everything else, neither overstepping nor underachieving that position. Further, I also suggest that the highest act of worshipping the unity behind everything is to love ever-expandingly. Eventually I will get into trouble with another Abrahamic who'll identify the heresy in my willingness to speak about worshipping God without using the traditional titles and names. But just remember, as they cart me off to Catholic jail or obscurity, that I've always cared more about the choices you make rather than the stories that made sense to you.
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Sep 1, 2017 23:13
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I am a non-Muslim, so I have more liability to dignify the actions of certain terrorists by linking them to whichever religion they claim to stand for. The terrorists we are referring to have killed vastly more Muslims than they've killed non-Muslims. As far as I can tell, though, history does not happen in a vacuum. I'm no expert of history, but what appears to happen to regions with struggling institutions is that they become susceptible to violent actors who want to play an international, zero-sum power game. Their officer and enlisted classes draw from a pool of disaffected characters who don't mind violence and feel a personal stake in winning the war. We talk about the Crusades as being an example of Christian violence, but we're forgetting the countless other wars that Christian monarchs fought using Christian peasants for reasons that would not impress Jesus Christ.
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Sep 8, 2017 13:33
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Any chance the Sunnis and Shiites stop feuding with each other and bury the hatchet anytime soon? I'm not a history expert, but I've been told that there were (and still are) times and places where Sunnis and Shiites lived in friendship and co-operation, and that is like burying hatchets. But if what you mean is a full melding of two great branches back into one, then the Abrahamic religions do not have a great number of examples of this happening through regular, organized processes. But what they do have is a tradition of outstanding truth-tellers responding to the (often negative) reality and context of their situation that end up contributing to widespread spiritual awakenings. This is often referred to as the prophetic tradition, but the term 'prophet' is politicized.
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Sep 16, 2017 05:26
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Hiro Protagonist posted:I'm actually a graduate student focusing on interreligious studies, but Islam has always been harder for me to study. Partly because I really feel I can only study a religion if I feel like I can see myself in it, and I struggle to do this with Islam. Part of it is the authority of the Quran: in Christianity or Buddhism, I can put things in a historical context very easily, and that can help me understand why LGBT rights or women's rights are not represented, and the religion (generally) allows for me to explore this line of thought without breaking from the tradition. But the importance of the Quran means that it would feel impossible to be a Muslim and be a strong advocate of LGBT rights. It is always up to each believer how they will interpret a sacred text, and in Tendai is see a Muslim who has little issue feeling close to God while also challenging some of the regressive attitudes held by conservatives in the Ummah. People do kill each other over interpretations, though of course you know that's hardly unique to Islam or any religion. Hiro Protagonist posted:All this said, on a basic, theological level, Islam makes sense to me. The Christian trinity makes no sense, and feels less like reality and more like early church fathers working backwards when Jesus didn't, you know, stay and restore Israel. It makes it feel more true, and less of a stretch of faith. This is not the Christianity a/t, but I will give you the briefest explanation for what the trinity means to me. The trinity are the three persons of God that an average person can conceive of and pray to. The first is as the creator of everything, the ultimate "father" figure. The second is as the spirit of holiness, which I argue is available to anyone who practices holiness. Like an Indian prince sitting under a bodhi tree meditating, he is working within the universal spirit of human holiness. The third is as the character of Jesus of Nazareth, an itinerant Jewish teacher whose canonical story you can find in the nightstand of every American hotel room. All three characters have all the qualifying properties to be the True God: they are all-present, all-powerful, and all-benevolent. As there is only one God, all three characters effectively work as one solid force for the creation and salvation of the world. But I argue you only really need to recognize one of the persons of God to start a rapport with the True God. Afterwards, either the other two persons will make sense, or I'm full of poo poo.
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Oct 16, 2017 21:34
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Well all right then, Uncle Occam. I see your point. The eternal dao is actually very simple and elegant, but the dao we can talk about is never the eternal dao. The Baha'i's have one-upped even the disciples of Mohammad by stating that each great messenger transmits the message in their time and place, but the message will continuously be retold as each new generation of disciples pass through a new era until we all arrive at the time and place of eternal life. Caufman fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 23:11
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An actual question this time! What does the Koran say about the Koran? I understand the story is that Mohammad heard the Message verbally from Gabriel. Is that story in the Koran itself?
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Oct 17, 2017 07:10
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CountFosco posted:When you decide to abandon the idea of divine simplicity, then it becomes kind of reassuring and sensical that a full understanding of god and our ability to make sense of God is to some degree challenging or defies or ability to understand. Ah, but the flip side of that is if you abandon divine simplicity, in your appreciation for the complexity of the complete plan of creation, take care not to allow your own reception and transmission of the message to be convoluted. It's true, the logos we can talk about is never the eternal logos. But sometimes we're not even speaking of the temporal logos coherently. Like right now, I have doubts about my coherency, not that of the ultimate meaning of all the cosmos.
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Oct 17, 2017 11:51
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Hello Muslim goons. Are there more of you out there? At the start of this thread, I asked Tendai what her Islam meant to her. If you please, tell me what it means to you.
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Dec 9, 2017 08:32
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thicc? thic?
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Aug 7, 2018 01:54
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You can see in Sufism the mystic, non-dualistic tradition that you also find in most Buddhism, and you can see in Ma Ba Tha the elements of fanaticism that you also find in the Taliban. This makes sense because every person has the capacity for deep understanding and violent misunderstanding, and in any grouping of twelve or more people, there's going to be at least one person who's showing up for the wrong reasons. That's not to say the particular history and current events of each grouping doesn't matter. Wisdom is not unlike rain in that it comes from a common source, but as soon as it touches the ground, its path is determined by the terrain it falls on. I'd be happy to know more about anyone's relationship with Sufism, though, especially practicing Muslims. Mine is not yet deep. I'm not even aware of any living Sufis. Famous figures like MLK Jr, Thomas Merton, and Thich Nhat Hanh have made the dialog between Christian mystics and Buddhists prominent, but although I hear Rumi and Sufism referenced a lot, I have not actually really encountered a public Muslim non-dualist, a Muslim equivalent to the names mentioned.
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Sep 6, 2018 07:53
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That was lovely to read 
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Sep 21, 2018 01:22
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The only thing I love more than contemplative prayer is fear and contempt of contemplative prayer.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:08
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