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PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

I am disrespectful to dirt! Join me or die! Can you do any less?

counterfeitsaint posted:

How do you feel about the fact that so many, I'd say the majority, of people who read the studied and contemplated the same words you did came to a very different conclusion?

To be clear, i'm not talking about death to America terrorist nonsense, I realize that does not represent the majority of Muslims. I'm talking about things like the aforementioned treatment of women, or violently defending the prophet, or LGBT stuff, or the apparent fact that Islam must be legislated so that the government can legally enforce it, or the biggest sticking point for me, capital punishment for anyone leaving the faith. I'm going to assume you don't agree with the majority of your faith on all these issues, but by all means correct me if I'm wrong.

Did you read it differently? Do most people just get things wrong?

Lots of people read it the same way that Tendai does, they just don't get a lot of publicity because "local Muslim doesn't think apostates should be killed" or whatever, doesn't make for a really interesting news story.

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PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

I am disrespectful to dirt! Join me or die! Can you do any less?

Tendai posted:

Every conversation I've seen about it in real life has been pretty bluntly honest. I've talked to two people in the last ten years who have expressed mild worries about a person in their family or wider circle of connections. I think that's attributable to the people I hang out with, mostly - there is very little of the us-and-them, cultural division that is sadly still really common in American mosques at least (presumably other places as well, but I can't speak for them).

On the internet, things are murkier. If everything on the main Islam subreddit is truth, I do worry.

A significant number of radicalized people have family members trying to alert authorities, too, or simply telling them to gently caress off with their nonsense and get a grip on sanity again -- it doesn't receive the attention it should, but it's happening.

A good Egyptian friend of mine "rediscovered" his religion after what I gather was a bit of a rough time in his life, and his folks told him straight out, "if you grow a big beard, and hang around with [jihadists or sympathizers], we'll disown you. We didn't make sacrifices to get out of Egypt to see you piss it all away." So now he's still an observant Muslim*, but his family helped keep him away from being seduced by the elements that could've start radicalizing him.

I think a big problem comes from people who embrace Islam as an act of rebellion, whether they come from a Muslim background or not. They're easy to tempt into bad things, because they already want to make a statement by it as much or more than they want to worship Allah. At least, that's the impression I get as a non-Muslim. I can only judge by the people I've talked to.

* Marijuana: not haraam, as long as it's occasional. Shisha, very not haraam.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

I am disrespectful to dirt! Join me or die! Can you do any less?
Mukip since you're obviously so well-versed in the subject and sure of yourself, I assume you will deign to show us where the Qu'ran says that apostates should be killed, and of course, why that would take precedence over Al-Baqara 256, if you believe there is scriptural basis for such.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

I am disrespectful to dirt! Join me or die! Can you do any less?

Mukip posted:

I never said that I was an expert, you passive-aggressive worm. When I referred to scriptural support for it I was referring to both the various Islamic quotes that promote the policy, the fact that plenty of clerics and conservative Muslims in general agree with that position and that apostasy is a a capital offense in both Saudi Arabia & Iran among plenty of other Muslim countries. I asked because I was genuinely interested in to what extent Tendai feels doubt about his position when it's apparent that there's plenty of Muslims who disagree with him, which is an obvious fact of the matter.

No I'm not being passive-aggressive; I would like you cite the things you referring to, and if you don't, then you can gently caress straight off.

The criminal code of various nominally Islamic countries does not constitute scriptural support for a given policy, in case you were unaware. I say this not to be passive-aggressive but because you seem to have a genuine problem understanding this.

I'd also point out that you seem to have missed the fact that Tendai is a woman, but as reading comprehension does not appear to be your strong suit anyway, I'd much prefer to address the more glaring flaws in your dreadful posting before moving onto other things.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

I am disrespectful to dirt! Join me or die! Can you do any less?
Is the direction to Mecca determined using a rhumb line (same heading all the way along the line) or a great circle line (shortest distance, with changing compass directions as you progress along the line)? Is there any disagreement on this point from scholars?

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