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In my new career I'm doing a butt-ton of traveling, and while some of it is flights, I'm starting to develop some paths that would probably be best-served by driving so I can change course and redirect easily, especially on the US East Coast where things are closer together. I'm looking to be doing more online sales, so picking up inventory at small-town pawnshops and junk shops, swap meets, etc has filled my poor little Suzuki up to the gunwales a few times, so I'm looking for a car with moderate (not huge) cargo capacity, since most of what I buy are relatively small and higher-value items. And since hotels can take a big chunk of my travel budget, I want a car I can camp in when needed. At first I was thinking to just use my current car and get an ultra-light trailer like a Scamp, but those are pretty pricey and have their own downsides in terms of handling, mileage, etc. Plus the fact that if I park the camper somewhere, drive an hour away for some event, I'm obligating myself to drive back and pick it up again, so I'm looking for more of a single-package vehicle. After I discarded the "sedan with ultralight trailer" idea, I thought about a station wagon like the Subaru Forester, but now I'm mainly looking at the various blocky micro-vans or square-SUVs, especially the Honda Element and Scion xB. I was googling to see if many folks have tried living/working out of these, and then found out that the Element is like the modern Vanagon and a really popular car-camper:  Here is my rough plan so far, and I welcome your comments, criticism, and sheer scorn in helping me make an SUV into an awesome micro-RV. Yes, I know it'll be way less comfy than an RV, but I've spent months living in literal holes in the ground in Iraq, in coffin-racks on a Navy ship, slept out in the woods with just a tarp, and spent plenty of nights curled up in a Toyota Corolla. Also I'm 5'6" so snug suits me fine. -- I want a vehicle that gets semi-okay highway mileage, can operate standalone for carrying cargo and still sleeping a (small) person without having to use a trailer. Ideally one that looks reasonably tidy rather than all Roma-wagon'ed out and drawing cop attention. I would be okay putting US$10-15k total into the project, with my preference being buying one with "good bones" and worn components and then putting in aftermarket shocks, brakes, etc. rather than paying more for one with low mileage. -- Top of my list right now is the Honda Element, though the Scion xB appears to be a better car overall, though maybe slightly less ideal as a micro-RV. From my reading online, the Element is a great "jack of all trades" but not ideal at anything in particular. Folks have advised getting the AWD variant if that matters, and since I might be in snowy areas, or occasionally on dirt roads (though not at all off-roading) I could see springing for AWD or similar. The other exciting possibility is that apparently the Element uses the same engine as the CRV, so in theory one could buy a diesel/TDI engine from Europe and plug it in, which would be amazing. I'm open to other vehicles though, with the caveat that I have an illogical and visceral dislike for the big American brands so would prefer an Asian brand (even if actually built in the US). --My goal would be to have the right mods and accessories to be able to work on my laptop in it, have a tiny travel printer/scanner, basically have all my needed office gear in there and a way to use it comfortably and ergonomically. When I don't have too much cargo I'd sleep in the back, but the pop-up roof tent (a $5k mod that takes 2-3 weeks in Portland OR) seems a great backup for trips where I pile in a lot of cargo. -- The Element looks pretty conservative and non-threatening, and even the pop-up says "middle-class camping enthusiast" rather than "filthy hippy squatting in your town" or (more accurately) "ex-Marine burnout itinerant wanderer". Other than the discreet crash-bars, I'd keep the outside looking pretty stock, just adding the "don't ticket me" requisite USMC vinyl sticker to the back window. In most US states and Canadian provinces, am I okay to dark-tint the windows further back so long as the windshield/driver/passenger windows aren't tinted? Being able to skip the trailer also helps keep it looking conservative. -- At first I would just upgrade shocks/brakes and replace anything clapped out, and drive it for a bit. If I like it, I want to add a small and subtle bull bar to the front, bumper guard in the back, and rock-sliders on the sides. More for avoiding urban dings and dents than for anything bush-related.  Those are my initial thoughts, and I'd hope to buy sometime between now and the end of the year, and thinking to travel south of the snow line to buy so I can get one that hasn't been rusted-out underneath by road salt. Perusing online, it's pretty easy to find an early-2000s Element with 150k miles for like $3k or so, looking pretty clean. And as said above, I'm fine buying one that's wearing out its stock components since I'd want to put in aftermarket anyway, and even high engine mileage might not matter much if I'm willing to do either an engine rebuild, or drop in a Euro CRV diesel engine. Those are my thoughts, fire away, o ye goons! TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Aug 9, 2017 |
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Aug 9, 2017 14:10
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Sounds like you've put a good deal of thought into it. The element seems well suited for this venture, both with the pop-top mod, and the large hatch in the back and huge side opening to get cargo or various modifications inside the vehicle. I don't think you mentioned it, and if you did I missed it, but are you planning on being somewhat self sufficient in the camper/element? I looked at making a camping van a few years ago and there are a lot of cool options for small refrigerators, stoves, stand-alone HVAC, etc. As far as the tinting, I am under the understanding that rear side and hatch can effectively be as dark as you want as long as the front sides and windshield are within legal limits. I'd probably make some sort of curtain arrangement for those anyways while camping. WHen I used to run the Alcan somewhat frequently and sleep in my truck, I found the pillow cases closed in the front windows and extra pillows stuffed on top of the dash worked well to both block light and insulate the vehicle better.
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Aug 9, 2017 14:33
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You would be better served by a normal cargo van. Ford transit, mercedes sprinter, even chevy, ram and nissan make them now with smaller more efficient engines. The transit in particular would suit your needs and be far easier to modify. Its not made in the united states either, its euro designed and made in turkey. For that matter I don't think any of the euro like ones are made in the US.
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Aug 9, 2017 14:44
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rdb posted:You would be better served by a normal cargo van. Ford transit, mercedes sprinter, even chevy, ram and nissan make them now with smaller more efficient engines. The transit in particular would suit your needs and be far easier to modify. Its not made in the united states either, its euro designed and made in turkey. For that matter I don't think any of the euro like ones are made in the US. From a size/efficiency standpoint you're absolutely right. The only issue is that the "euro-style" vans we have here are fairly new still, and cost a lot more than an Element or similar. The best you'd be able to do is maybe an early Sprinter, but those had a lot of rust problems and usually have super high fleet-level miles on them.
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Aug 9, 2017 14:49
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I saw a couple transit connects on local CL for less than $5k. One as low as 3k but had 338k miles on it. I think its all doable on a $15k budget, probably far less.
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Aug 9, 2017 14:58
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rdb posted:I saw a couple transit connects on local CL for less than $5k. One as low as 3k but had 338k miles on it. I think its all doable on a $15k budget, probably far less. There's going to be outliers in all directions. Realistically this is best: https://asheville.craigslist.org/cto/d/88-volkswagen-vanagon/6254084848.html
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Aug 9, 2017 15:03
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Garage2Roadtrip posted:There's going to be outliers in all directions. Realistically this is best: https://asheville.craigslist.org/cto/d/88-volkswagen-vanagon/6254084848.html 
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Aug 9, 2017 15:10
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I agree you'd be much better served by a van, be it a conventional van or a cargo variant like the Transit. Even the big SUVs are really uncomfortable to sleep in and you add in the fact that you'll have stuff piling up the rear it doesnt leave much space for any desk work to be done unless you're sitting in the front seats doing it.
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Aug 9, 2017 15:14
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Elements do some uncanny things though... Plus they can be had with 4wd, and are more inconspicuous than a van /devils-advocate
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Aug 9, 2017 15:23
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Just get a Westfalia you hipster
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Aug 9, 2017 15:51
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Definitely go the reliable route and get a Chevy Express 3500 6.0 like this dude did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQc21wDyDYs Anyone who does this with a Westy/Vanagon/Bus or really anything VW is a complete and total moron who deserves every single breakdown they get. I'm all about that "#vanlife" poo poo 100%, but why would you choose to endure the pain of constantly repairing a terrible old VW van, not to mention the insane lack of power... The Chevy van will run until the end of all time, and will have more than enough power while delivering semi-good mileage, since the engine is not straining at 10/10th all the time. Plus you can get parts at any autozone, walmart, napa etc.
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Aug 9, 2017 16:36
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But the only actual suggested VW in this thread is one with an EJ Subaru engine swap?  Super reliable, parts at any auto parts shop or junkyard?
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Aug 9, 2017 16:56
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Voltage posted:Definitely go the reliable route and get a Chevy Express 3500 6.0 like this dude did: the 6.0 van would use twice the fuel of a transit connect. they're seriously bad. they're rated, empty, at 10 city 15 highway. the transit connect is 21 city 27 highway. They're rare but you might be able to find a duramax savanna which is probably the best all around van ever offered here. Being a little person you probably wouldn't miss the extra room between a savanna and transit connect. I've seen new transit connects advertised at $16k. something like this should go for about $2000-$3000, blend into the scenery, and be cheap to maintain and repair, even for something extreme like an engine or transmission. https://www.rbauction.com/2012-FORD-Transit-Connect?invId=10149683&id=ci&auction=HOUSTON-TX-2017210
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Aug 9, 2017 17:25
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I think we should agree that the Element is a perfectly good choice, so this thread can now move onto the important details, such as what you're going to airbrush up the side. Three wolf moon? Motherfuckin' DRAGONS? Red Sonja fan art?
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Aug 9, 2017 18:22
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I would buy a toyota or honda mini van and just toss the rear seats somewhere.
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Aug 9, 2017 19:11
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Maybe I pitched it wrong, but it feels like a lot of these replies are "here's a cargo vehicle that's not terrible to drive around in" when I'm looking more for "good car to drive around in that can hold an moderate amount of cargo". Bear in mind that I've done things similar to this with a Toyota Corolla in the past, and currently with a Suzuki Kizashi, so I don't need massive hauling capacity. At this point my search is "maybe I need more room than a Subaru Forester" rather than "maybe I need something more drivable than an RV". I can't imagine trying to parallel-park a transit van during trips into the city. But appreciate broadening my scope.quote:I agree you'd be much better served by a van, be it a conventional van or a cargo variant like the Transit. Even the big SUVs are really uncomfortable to sleep in and you add in the fact that you'll have stuff piling up the rear it doesnt leave much space for any desk work to be done unless you're sitting in the front seats doing it. I was thinking front seats for the desk work, actually. Initially I was looking into the clever "this desk bolts on to your steering wheel", but on further thought that'd be dumb since I can just as easily pop over to the passenger front seat and have my shelf and plugs and whatnot more permanently set up there and leave the driver's seat just for driving. quote:I don't think you mentioned it, and if you did I missed it, but are you planning on being somewhat self sufficient in the camper/element? I looked at making a camping van a few years ago and there are a lot of cool options for small refrigerators, stoves, stand-alone HVAC, etc. I could see having a small camp-stove for legit campsites just to heat up canned soup or whatever, and if I had a fridge it'd be some micro lunchbox-sized thing just so I could keep some eggs and bacon overnight, nothing remotely large. InitialDave posted:I think we should agree that the Element is a perfectly good choice, so this thread can now move onto the important details, such as what you're going to airbrush up the side. Three wolf moon? Motherfuckin' DRAGONS? Red Sonja fan art? Keeping it looking clean outside, other than the aforementioned Marine stickers to buy some slack from cops, concerned citizens, etc. For looks, I do love the contrasting quarter-panels on many Element models, though I think the faux-wood panels are too cheesy, though they would certainly keep the vehicle looking non-threatening. Am I thinking straight with my plot to seek out a cheaper high-mileage (but clean) Element, with an eye towards immediately upgrading brakes/shocks and later rebuilding or replacing the engine? The pop-top mod I'd hold off on, and at first just see if I can rig up some straps to keep the cargo on one side of the back and sleep on the other side, since $5k is a pretty big investment and the pop-top would be fine for campsites but a little conspicuous at any unofficial resting site. Did a little digging, and you can buy entire Diesel CRV engines from Europe for $1-2k, and this one is a Turbo Diesel: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-CRV-CIVIC-2-2-i-CDTi-N22A2-TURBO-DIESEL-ENGINE-/251959514173 EDIT: Holy crap, the CTDI engine gets 40-45 miles to the gallon of diesel! I need to set that up as a story problem and figure out how long it would take me to amortize the cost of buying and shipping a CTDI from Europe (minus money recouped from selling the stock engine). If a CRV engine is basically a drop-in, but with whatever added hassle of going from gas to diesel, anyone have a rough guess at what it'd cost to have a mechanic install the CTDI if I just drive up with the stock vehicle and a Euro engine sitting in the hold?
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Aug 10, 2017 14:37
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Goons, if you're suggesting something completely against the OP's checklist, please explain why. OP, Have you ever done an engine swap? Even if the engine is plug-and-play with the chassis (it's most likely not that easy), it's one of those things where you carefully map out the cost and timeframe, then double the cost and quadruple the timeframe. I'd get it set up as a camper before you go engine swapping. E: looks like you want to pay someone to do it. I guarantee that will cost way more than the engine does. There's not very many companies out there that will do such a thing, even if it's a well-documented process. The ones that do command a premium. Adiabatic fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 14:42
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Careful, I think US customs are wise to non US diesels being imported for conversions, may not allow it. If that side checks out, though, a front cut with everything is likely your best bet.
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Aug 10, 2017 14:42
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I'm a software engineer that works remotely, and I enjoy being a vagabond. I owned an element from 2011 to 2016, and probably did full-time travel for about two years out of that time period. The element worked fairly well for a low budget rig. I removed the rear seats and kept a inflatable air mattress in the back. I looked into a diesel engine swap, too. There is little to no documentation online, parts aren't available for that engine in the united states, and it won't pass emissions if you live in a metro area or state that requires it. It is awd, but the transfer case is based off a centrifugal clutch. The only way to transfer power to the back wheel is to make the front wheels slip. This was easy in my car, since it was a manual, but the automatic would be more unpredictable. It handled the Sierra Nevadas, Tehachapi, and Rocky Mountains pretty well during four winter storms. The only way to get predictable power to the ground was to drift it around the corners. Otherwise the front would slip first and the added power to the rear would try to drive you straight off the road. Oddly enough its a fun as hell car to toss around in low traction environments. It did make it ~500 ft vertically up an atv trail on Alamagre South. The snow was so thick that the bumper acted like a plow. Then, it would stop, slide back a few feet, and we could give it another go. I made a bit closer to the top of a ridge before realizing how stupid this idea was. Then, we pinballed down the trail in reverse. Don't waste the money on the conversion top. For less money, you can put a roof rack and pop up tent on top. You might be able to get $500 out of the $5000+ put into the conversion when you decide to sell the car. If you decide to go the pop up tent route, you can also spend your money on a more capable or larger vehicle. Keep in mind at the end of the day this is going to be an element, and worth about $5k after pouring $15k into it. If you change out the shocks and suspension, be sure to use stock sizes. They are based off a crv frame and the cv joints will wear out extremely quickly if lifted, even for a Honda. The next rig that I'm building out is a 92 F350 with a 67 Avion truck camper. Although, a truck camper is a little more full time and gypsy looking than what you want. That said there are some neat simplier options out there. You can also sell the camper part or use it on another vehicle when the element or truck finally drives it's wheels off. A couple cool options: https://austin.craigslist.org/rvs/d/vintage-alaskan-slide-in-pop/6245356118.html . https://i.imgur.com/jLl5LA9.jpg Your needs might be better suited in a transit connect. If you decide to go with an element, keep it stock and build something like this in the back: 
Entone fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 15:43
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Okay, so the CTDI just isn't practically or economically feasible, got it, good to get a reality check there. Are there any non-extravagant mods to get either better mileage or more torque out of this puppy? And is it penny-wise/pound-foolish buying a high-mileage one with an eye towards having the (conventional gas) engine rebuilt with upgraded bits? For max versatility (on an Element or a Scion or whatever), should I be looking at an AWD variant or a FWD variant, and stick or manual? I'm only okay at stick but would get better fast, and most of my stick ability comes from being accustomed to shifting on motorbikes so it crosses over pretty well. Helpful reality check too on the $5k pop-up; I had suspected that was more an Element-cultist thing than a really practical option. I might just get a good quality small tent and stow it in the back for the times I want to sleep outside the vehicle at a campsite, though I'll look into up-top platform options too. Entone, so glad someone with on-nose experience stopped in! Can you clarify slightly what factors caused you to move on from the Element? For me it's less a budget issue and more of trying to be as car-like as possible (something that I can parallel-park when I go into a city). Given that the $5k pop-top was one of the exuberant ideas that had me looking at the Element over the Scion xB, does anyone have a good argument why I should go for the Scion instead, whether for ride, mileage, parts/service availability, etc? I'll hold off on asking specifics about vehicle mods (mainly brakes, suspension, shocks, possibly upgrading seats) until I can suss out whether my focus should be the Element or the xB, or some other frame. The Kia Soul is tempting (and adorable) but I think doesn't have a long enough bed for even a 5'6" to sleep in (EDIT: 51" with seats in driving position, 55" with seats forward). Is the Nissan Cube also in the running? FAKEEDIT: And this is what I mean by "don't ticket me" stickers:   On my Kizashi I have a medium sized Eagle-Globe-Anchor with no text in the middle of the back window, and in the left upper corner I have the emblem of the 1st Marine Division, and below that the Afghanistan ribbon and Iraq ribbon. On the last two the decals came with text but I sliced them off before installing, figuring that it makes it more mysteriously cool for people unfamiliar, and people who recognize the emblems will feel extra-insider. I have seen cops let Marines off with just warnings on multiple occasions, and once had a cop pull me over in Philly just to show off his Marine Corps tattoo and tell me to drive safe. I'm not an rear end in a top hat vet that demands worship or anything, I just hate dealing with cops so I will happily exploit every advantage I have to minimize hassle from them. EDIT3: I don't *think* I want a cargo van, though I'm not totally against suggestions that are only slightly larger than an Element, just not a massive Ford Transit or similar. Here's a great write-up by a guy who made a camper out of a Renault Kangoo, and I think one of the mini-cargo-vans mentioned above is similar to this one: http://www.instructables.com/id/The-MicroCamper-aka-Fat-Berta/ And mini-van with fully-enclosed rear is right-out since I don't want to sleep in a claustrophobic cave, but I'd be open to something like the Kangoo's US-equivalent, though that's still lower on my possibles list than the Element and xB. This is helping out a ton, y'all are great. Keep the ideas coming, and after this thread is resolved I'd like to post a new one "Pimp the Bishop's RAV" since my da is looking for ideas to trick out his V6 RAV. He recently retired after 40-some years as a clergyman, loves his RAV and wants it to be "the last car he'll ever own", and I've sold him on the idea of a subtle front crash bar, rock sliders, bumper protector, but he nixed the idea of adding a snorkel to it. In the past he was horrible about car maintenance so his RAV slowly started to suck over the years, but after much prodding from me he spent a couple grand for a big overhaul, and now it's awesome. It's an automatic so shifting lag kills the 0-60 but over several tries I've clocked his V6 RAV at 7.2sec, and googling around some folks have gotten 6.4sec out of the stick, so pretty dang sprightly for a light SUV. But I'll leave that for the next thread. Thanks for help in particular from the experienced van-campers, and from folks with opinions as to whether Element, xB, or other is the best vehicle for this purpose. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 16:22
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Imported engines under 21 years old need EPA labels. The UK uses imperial gallons which is 4.55 liters, the US gallons is 3.75 liters, so most MPG ratings you'll see there have to be adjusted to line up with ours. C&D saw 28 US MPG out of the diesel CR-V which was 6mpg over the gasser. even if it's $2000 for the engine and $2000 to get it installed, at $2 per gallon it would take 100,000 miles to make up the cost. The transit connect is roughly the same size as the element on the outside, but has a lower floor and higher roof giving it nearly twice the volume behind the front seats. It's based on the focus so it's not exactly a big lumbering cargo vehicle. just google image search transit connect camper to see what other people have done. Having a small fridge/stove/water tank could give you a couple more days away from campgrounds or restaurants.
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Aug 10, 2017 16:28
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Powershift posted:Imported engines under 21 years old need EPA labels. The UK uses imperial gallons which is 4.55 liters, the US gallons is 3.75 liters, so most MPG ratings you'll see there have to be adjusted to line up with ours. C&D saw 28 US MPG out of the diesel CR-V which was 6mpg over the gasser. even if it's $2000 for the engine and $2000 to get it installed, at $2 per gallon it would take 100,000 miles to make up the cost. Nice work on the numbers, helps a ton. quote:The transit connect is roughly the same size as the element on the outside, but has a lower floor and higher roof giving it nearly twice the volume behind the front seats. It's based on the focus so it's not exactly a big lumbering cargo vehicle. just google image search transit connect camper to see what other people have done. Having a small fridge/stove/water tank could give you a couple more days away from campgrounds or restaurants. For my notes and to save curious others' time: OAL: xB: 155" Element: 180" Transit Connect: 174" (SWB model) Wheelbase: xB: 98" Element: 101" TC: 104" Width: xB: 67" Element: 72" TC: 72" EDIT: Is the Transit Connect available TDI in the US or just overseas? TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 16:38
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We never got the diesel transit connect in north america. the second gen got the 1.6 ecoboost and the newer full size transit gets the 3.2 diesel but those would probably blow your whole budget
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Aug 10, 2017 16:54
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If you *did* really, really want a CDTi, there is a potential workaround: A foreign national can bring a vehicle in temporarily as long as they're in the country, provided it is re-exported or destroyed when they leave. So someone like me could bring an entire car in, which you then destroy/scrap, and have the engine out of. It'd still more than a little shady, but I think it's about the only way you could get what you need over the border "legally". Though... How do they know an engine's age? If the psperwork says it's out a '95 Accord, do they know any better? How is LPG availability/cost in the USA? Could that help? I mean, your fuel's so cheap, it's kind of a moot point IMO, but up to you. Would also mean not driving a small, manual transmission road car with a diesel, which really isn't very enjoyable anyway. I'll always say that the USA's fascination with wanting a manual small diesel is a grass being greener issue, they're kind of an emperor's new clothes deal. It's a pity you don't get the Skoda Yeti in the USA, that's probably ideal for you. What about an estate car/wagon? Audi A6 Allroad, for example?
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Aug 10, 2017 16:59
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The Element is a good choice, there's a lot of over complication going on here. AWD Elements get 19/24MPG, which is fine. Gas is ~ $2/gallon right now, cheap. No need to do some shady or elaborate engine swap in the pursuit of a couple more MPG's and lack of parts availability. Also, it's going to be a lot nicer to live with and drive an Element than a van substitute. OP, I think you hit the nail on the head with using the Element for what you need. Find one with lower than average miles in good condition and that will be more beneficial to your budget (and time) than anything. Then focus on outfitting it.
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Aug 10, 2017 17:52
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Forgot to mention, I bounce between the US and Canada, that might matter. And holy goat balls, Elements are way cheap and available in Quebec (deduct 20% to get USD price): https://www.kijiji.ca/b-autos-camions/quebec/honda-element/c174l9001a54a1000054 "Y Package" is apparently just the same thing as EX model. EDIT: anyone pushing me towards an xB instead?
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Aug 10, 2017 19:06
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Forgot to mention, I bounce between the US and Canada, that might matter. As cheap as they are, and even if you were to go through the import process into the US, I would highly recommend against getting a car from Quebec. A friend of mine who sources cars as a living says they dont touch Quebec vehicles, I think it was something about accident reporting. That and harsh winters.
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Aug 10, 2017 20:31
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I have lived in a wide variety of vehicles over a long period of time. Right now in a lifted 4x4 e-250. It is really about the smallest thing I'd want to live out of for more than a few months. A cargo van is *already* a micro-RV, when you try to get much smaller you hit diminishing returns p quick. You can do it, but the quality of life hit just isn't worth it. Also you mentioned wanting to be inconspicuous? No one looks twice at a tradesman van. Parts are cheap/everywhere. There's a lot of aftermarket support for camping out of them, and they are designed from the factory to have custom equipment installed/be built out. Lots of mounting points, cable runs, etc. They're "boring" and not Asian like you wanted, but there's a reason so many people suggested em. My next project is going to be an Astro/Safari van with S-10 running gear for 4wd and a Buick 3.8 (all oem/drop in parts!). I think something like that would be great for your situation, and a stock Astro would be fine. I could go on about vans for an age (and will at the slightest provocation) but I'm getting off-topic and more into what I want to build so. Moving on. I hugely recommend you try living out of whatever vehicle you have now, seeing what you like/don't like about it, and using that to inform your selection. Little things like how easy it is to get in and out while set up for sleeping, which windows you can open/crack, how easy having curtains is, where the lights are, being able to run just the stereo for tunes all start to have a much bigger impact when you have to live with them on a regular basis. If you're that set on the Element, rent one for a weekend with a critical eye and give it a shot. I think you'll want at least some food storage/prep capabilities once you try it out. Oh and I'd look into Subaru wagons if you really just want to keep it non-van/Asian. EJ bits are cheap/available, they get decent mileage, they have those fold-flat seats, awd is nice to have, they're pretty common/inconspicuous, front seat is a nice place to build a little kitchen area/desk, you can turn the interior lights on/off from the back, lots of built in storage spots. Source: moved into a 1990 Legacy when I was 15. Had three people living out of that car one summer 420 SWAGLORD fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 22:30
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Comedy Option:
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Aug 10, 2017 23:44
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I own an xB, and although it's a great car, no way I'd ever camp in it. I used to agonize over the same thing when I was traveling doing photography for a living and hotels were taking a serious chunk out of my income. Light trailers were too expensive, RVs were too big and expensive and I had nowhere to put one anyway, and I didn't want a van for a daily either so I did the only other option which is sleep in a tent. If the weather got bad I would sleep in the car which didn't happen that often. It's really not that bad, and these days with inflatable tents on the market it's 100 times easier to set up and take down, wish I would have had one when i was doing it.
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Aug 11, 2017 01:00
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My 2 cents: Nothing wrong with the Element, though there's some electronics hidden under that floor material (so don't, say, hose it out). The K24 engine is pretty drat sturdy - there's no need to rebuild it unless it starts knocking or starts burning oil. Do the most basic of maintenance and they'll run for 300k+. Their main weakness is, as with most OHC timing chain engines, is the timing chain tensioner, but that makes itself known on a cold startup (you'll hear the timing chain rattling for a couple of seconds).
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Aug 11, 2017 01:29
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What's the reasoning behind wanting to upgrade the shocks/brakes right away? Would it be cheaper to just run stock everything and replace them at smaller intervals? Also the Ford Transit Connect can be a pretty awful vehicle, especially for winter. Low ground clearance, gutless and the only way to open the hood is through a keyed mechanism under the front badge which fills up with snow and ice.
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Aug 11, 2017 03:03
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Suspension is tuned for a particular weight, and if you're adding to that weight with a bunch of modifications, you risk upsetting the tuned damping of the system. Same deal for brakes and increased momentum to change.
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Aug 11, 2017 03:28
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Would the total increase in stuff in the car exceed the weight it was designed for? If the car could hold four adults that's quite a bit of weight you've got to play with already. Or is this a matter of the car behaving differently if it's constantly at capacity?
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Aug 11, 2017 03:33
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:For max versatility (on an Element or a Scion or whatever), should I be looking at an AWD variant or a FWD variant, and stick or manual? I'm only okay at stick but would get better fast, and most of my stick ability comes from being accustomed to shifting on motorbikes so it crosses over pretty well. I originally bought the element, because I adopted a greyhound and owned an s2000. I kinda fell into the vagabond life with it. A transit connect is just as city friendly as an element, and as mentioned about the same exterior size with a >25% increase in useable space. Where are you located and where you do plan on traveling? AWD only really helped due to admittedly being a hooning jackass in the mountains during winter storms. Regarding feeling claustrophobic with a closed off van, you'll be craving for more privacy after the first night in an element. The top of an airmattress reached the bottom of the window in the back. It's weird to wakeup at a trailhead or rest stop with someone visibly right next to you when you're too exhausted to put up any sort of curtain. Entone fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 03:46
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I run a rooftop tent on my 99 Forester (read an actual wagon, less of an SUV). It's 4+ person and hella spacious with 2 adults. I have a pricey Cascadia Vehicle Tents from Bend, Or, but I know that there are plenty less pricey options out there. It keeps your vehicle cargo area clear, but it is pretty obviously a tent and draws a lot of attention when parked. If you have a good roof rack to mount it to, a less expensive brand might run you $700 to get into it.
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Aug 11, 2017 05:30
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Got some good back-and-forth here, I'm digging it. I walked past an Element today and gave it a walk-around to get a feel for the size and build. The idea of renting one is excellent, I'll have to keep an eye on Turo when I travel and see if anyone is pimping theirs out to strangers. I saw a Land Rover L4 today too and briefly thought "that'd make a cool camper" for all of the 10 seconds it took me to see that a used L4 goes for... I'm thinking that station wagons are too small, though the Forester was my initial bright idea. And while I understand that some SWB cargo vans aren't any bigger than the Element, I'm not sold on the idea yet, though I think I am close to writing off the Scion xB unless I can borrow one and try sleeping in it to see if even little ol' me can fit in the back. I To one side, the fact that so many people elsewhere on the internet are huge Element-camper enthusiasts presumably means that it has some big advantages overall, even if sub-optimal in several areas. I think it's still my leading choice. quote:What's the reasoning behind wanting to upgrade the shocks/brakes right away? Would it be cheaper to just run stock everything and replace them at smaller intervals? That's one thing I'm hoping the thread can guide me on: if I have to choose between an Element with say 100k miles for $5k or 150k miles for $3k, assuming no damage beyond standard wear-tear, am I better off buying the 150k and putting a grand into replacing belts/plugs/pads/etc or am I smarter to buy the new one that has more life in its stock parts? I bought a Suzuki Sidekick once that was kinda clapped-out but had good bones, and I was thinking I was smart because I could use the money I saved to put in Old Man Emu suspension and ceramic breaks, but then before I could do so it got stolen and presumably chop-shopped so I haven't actually put the idea into practice. quote:Regarding feeling claustrophobic with a closed off van, you'll be craving for more privacy after the first night in an element. The top of an airmattress reached the bottom of the window in the back. It's weird to wakeup at a trailhead or rest stop with someone visibly right next to you when you're too exhausted to put up any sort of curtain. Would good tinting on the rear area windows and a good curtain up-front not ameliorate a lot of that? Are there tints I can do that still let light in but look totally black on the outside? I would still leave the front windows and windshield untinted, or maybe slight UV-tinting for the windshield. Nobody objecting to a small crash bar, bumper protector, and rock-sliders? I guess a snorkel would be against the "inconspicuous" part though. After working in Africa I just love snorkels on cars. Jimong5 posted:Comedy Option: Is that a Pontiac Aztek? I feel like half this thread is just following jokes from American Dad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vaQQQORks4 So we're going to live in a car? --It's not just a car, it's a tent on wheels. But how can we afford this? We only have $938 for the whole month. --I only paid 400 bucks for this bad boy. How did you manage that? --Well, first I had to find a Pontiac dealership, which wasn't easy. Then I told them I wanted to buy an Aztek.Then I paid them $400. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 05:33
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Commodore_64 posted:I run a rooftop tent on my 99 Forester (read an actual wagon, less of an SUV). It's 4+ person and hella spacious with 2 adults. I have a pricey Cascadia Vehicle Tents from Bend, Or, but I know that there are plenty less pricey options out there. It keeps your vehicle cargo area clear, but it is pretty obviously a tent and draws a lot of attention when parked. If you have a good roof rack to mount it to, a less expensive brand might run you $700 to get into it. I would absolutely get a Forester if I either: a) planned to tow an ultra-light sleeping trailer and keep cargo in the car b) planned to tow a small cargo-trailer and camp in the car But since I want to be able to do both moderate cargo and/or camping in the car itself without towing, Element is still ahead. Small accessory questions: -- any goon-recommended products for turning the passenger seat into an office desk? Some kind of bracket to hold my iPad and some kind of tray for my keyboard, and then some mini-printer/scanner? Anything else I'm missing? -- Any *really* small refrigerator that y'all like, like one too small for even one gallon of milk but big enough for six eggs and some bacon and a can of Coke? Not sure on HVAC yet, need to ponder, or maybe some battery-powered fans in the windows. For stove I'm 90% sure that just a little backpacker camp stove would work for just heating up water or canned goods. -- this will sound goofy, but for local travel without having to move the car I was debating mounting my electric moped (my daily driver in Montreal) onto the rear. But I wasn't sure if I could charge it off the car efficiently, so I thought maybe compromise the green-energy aspect and get a Tomos or other small gas moped and hang it on the back. But then I thought that might attract thieves or otherwise compromise the low profile, so in all seriousness I'm thinking maybe a folding kick-scooter with an electric engine? Are there any of those that are sufficiently good quality, like ones made for uber-nerd commuters that fold up to carry on the subway, such as I could stow it easily in the bed? I don't want a gas version since that would stink up the cargo area, and be noisy and less green. EDIT2: and to address earlier comments, yes I've done car camping but never longer than a week at a time, and mainly in a Toyota Corolla. I've spent a few days running camping in a Corolla which is *also* packed with all my possessions, which is kinda cramped when I can only recline the seat partially and have to sleep partly sitting up, but when I've had just trunk-cargo I've spent a week or so sleeping across the back seat of a Corolla with my legs tucked. Oh, and I once lived with four other guys in a LAV-25 scout car for like three months during a war, so that's kind of car camping. Camping aside, I've done a ton of weeks+ hauling of cargo in a Toyota Corolla and in a Suzuki Kizashi, so I'm intimately familiar with how many rifles and shotguns one can feasibly fit into a Kizashi (a surprisingly large amount, less than a platoon's worth but well more than a squad's worth). TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 05:44
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Your employer doesn't reimburse you for hotels? Time to  But if you really want to do this, I'll throw in the comedy option: Have you considered a fullsize wagon?  Can be had for $3k out in SoCal, gets decent highway mileage by V8 standards, and cops will assume you're a 75-year-old white guy. Can also be had as a Chevy without the wood and with lesser/more economical engine options, possibly even a V6. Con: it's twenty years old at the newest. Pro: cheap to fix and any parts store in the western hemisphere will stock engine repair parts, because it's a drat small-block Chevy. Seriously, though TapTheForwardAssist posted:And mini-van with fully-enclosed rear is right-out since I don't want to sleep in a claustrophobic cave, but I'd be open to something like the Kangoo's US-equivalent, though that's still lower on my possibles list than the Element and xB. Edit: apparently the seats fold flush with the floor now. 2017 Dodge Grand Caravan with rear seats folded: 140.3 cubic feet. Element with seats folded: 74.6 ft³. So the "claustrophobic cave" is very nearly twice the space as your current top choice. And I doubt it's terribly much less, if any, for used models. Chillbro Baggins fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 06:03
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Yeah, but then you get to deal with the reliability that goes with a Caravan.  They're not bad when new, and can be had pretty cheap with low miles when used, but they're pretty famous for the transmissions taking a poo poo.
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Aug 11, 2017 06:23
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