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veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


Holy poo poo the trial in the darkness is spooky as all hell.

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precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town




veni veni veni posted:

Holy poo poo the trial in the darkness is spooky as all hell.

I was getting severe Silent Hill vibes, and not in the good way

For that matter the river of blood with the writhing bodies was very "Silent Hill" and made me feel really gross, but in a good way

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

precision posted:

I think what's hard about that part is that it's very hard to know if you have time to "scan" the rune or not, and because looking at the thing makes it come for you faster, it can be very difficult to keep track of exactly where it is. Plus there is at least one dead end in the maze as a gently caress you.

Yeah I mean, I guess I've just been lucky both times. I did it just now with difficulty locked on normal, so I on my next playthrough I'll have it set to hard and see if it's any different.


veni veni veni posted:

Holy poo poo the trial in the darkness is spooky as all hell.

I intentionally wanted to get this one out of the way first on my second playthrough, and I hosed up and now it's the only one left. gently caress this, I'm turning the lights on.

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town




Honestly though the scariest moment in the game to me was quite early - when you see Hela's giant head coming out of the gate on the bridge

Also the whole Venravn Trial is basically "welcome to Blair loving Witch" so despite it being well-lit I was freaked the gently caress out the whole time.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


I was really disappointed in the way Venravyn ended. He's incredibly creepy and his song made me really uneasy and creeped out, as well as the visual tricks where you see him but on closer inspection it's just a shrine. Especially the first time where he is way above you, and I legitimately was wondering if I saw a guy up there or not. Unfortunately, I think they overused the gimmick by the end. But the real kicker was just fighting him as a normal sword and board boss. Just totally killed the mystique for me

I still agree that part is a close second, but the dark triall genuinely made my skin crawl and I consider myself pretty desensitized to horror.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

veni veni veni posted:

I was really disappointed in the way Venravyn ended. He's incredibly creepy and his song made me really uneasy and creeped out, as well as the visual tricks where you see him but on closer inspection it's just a shrine. Especially the first time where he is way above you, and I legitimately was wondering if I saw a guy up there or not. Unfortunately, I think they overused the gimmick by the end. But the real kicker was just fighting him as a normal sword and board boss. Just totally killed the mystique for me

I still agree that part is a close second, but the dark triall genuinely made my skin crawl and I consider myself pretty desensitized to horror.

I think that's basically the point. That Valravn can just be killed by a warrior.

Does anyone know how regaining your balance is supposed to work? It seems totally random and I have no idea what input it's supposed to be. Google was no help.

Snak fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Aug 11, 2017

WillyTheNewGuy
Feb 16, 2005

HOPE has a posse

I have a question about the headphones thing. Does it have to be a wired set of headphones that plug into the controller, or would wireless headphones with a usb adapter work just as well?

Darth Nat
Aug 24, 2007

It all comes out right in the end.


I mostly enjoyed the game, but I finally had to pause and look up (endgame spoiler) whether I was supposed to intentionally die during the enemy gauntlet when you get to Hel. I was so paranoid after the hellish length of the river of blood that I fought a truly absurd amount of enemies, and the fact that you don't go into an injured state during that fight didn't really telegraph that I was supposed to lose. The only clue you have is the voices telling you to give up, but they haven't exactly been reliable for most of the game!

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


Man I have no idea how you only died twice Snak. I am getting killed over and over and over in the river of blood and I'm playing on fuckin easy.

checkstock
Dec 18, 2011


WillyTheNewGuy posted:

I have a question about the headphones thing. Does it have to be a wired set of headphones that plug into the controller, or would wireless headphones with a usb adapter work just as well?

Pretty much any headset or set of headphones with a USB connector works with the PS4 so that should be fine.

Darth Nat
Aug 24, 2007

It all comes out right in the end.


veni veni veni posted:

Man I have no idea how you only died twice Snak. I am getting killed over and over and over in the river of blood and I'm playing on fuckin easy.

I feel like once I realized that you can mash the dodge button (or maybe any button, I'm not sure) to get up faster when you get knocked down, and that dodging constantly makes you basically invincible instead of trying to parry all the time, I stopped dying.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

veni veni veni posted:

Man I have no idea how you only died twice Snak. I am getting killed over and over and over in the river of blood and I'm playing on fuckin easy.

playing on normal I just died like 4 times in that place. But I'm also focused on figuring out combos right now rather than doing a good job fighting. I spotted a new one earlier and I will not rest until I figure it out. It's where she stabs her sword into a guy and then turns around to rip her sword upward through their torso. I'm 90% sure that the combo starts with a kick. I don't know of any combos that start with kicks, but I swear this was right after kicking a guy in the shield that I did this.

edit: I just platinumed the game though. First game I've ever platted, and this has got to be one of the easiest platinums ever. There's only one trophy that's missable, and progress on it carries over between playthroughs...

Snak fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Aug 11, 2017

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005





Toilet Rascal

Question- When you enter the final portal to hell, the rim lights up with characters that seem to represent the story collectibles you've found. Does anything different happen if you have them all?

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


Something weird happened where either the game took pity on me, or there was maybe a bug, or I was going in the wrong direction. But I kept dying because there were so many drat enemies. I'd usually cut though about 30 and they were still spawning, them all of sudden there was maybe...8? And the battle was over.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

haveblue posted:

Question- When you enter the final portal to hell, the rim lights up with characters that seem to represent the story collectibles you've found. Does anything different happen if you have them all?

I will let you know tomorrow when I do it.

veni veni veni posted:

Something weird happened where either the game took pity on me, or there was maybe a bug, or I was going in the wrong direction. But I kept dying because there were so many drat enemies. I'd usually cut though about 30 and they were still spawning, them all of sudden there was maybe...8? And the battle was over.

Hmm, I always thought they spawned in discrete waves, but maybe their spawns are triggered by forward advancement, and you've been fighting forward causing them to spawn "early".

The most guys I fought at a time in that area is 4. With replacements spawning in as you kill them.

Over the next two days, I'll be working on a big effort post about the mythology that's referenced by the rune stones and how it compares to real myths and their sources. All the reading I've done so far seems to indicate that the devs really did their research. But there are different sources/traditions of Norse Mythology, so it's neat to go through and see what choices they made in creating the game world.

Part of the work of this is, during this playthrough, I transcribed all of the runestone audio logs except for like 4, because I had already passed 3 that I couldn't backtrack to when I started, and then I missed one that I got locked out of later.

it's a shame that some people have encountered serious, game-breaking glitches. I hope that Ninja Theory is good about fixing them. It would be a shame for such a great game to be marred forever by such problems, especially with its controversial save system. I have been lucky to have only encountered two minor, mostly graphical glitches, one of which was fixable in game.

I'm going to update and repost my combat guide, but the new best combo (late game only) is

Fast -> Fast -> Fast -> Hold Heavy -> Heavy -> Heavy -> Heavy
Luke waling on Vader in Return of the Jedi. Senua performs 3 quick slashes, then changes her stance and hacks downwards 3 times before winding up for a final big chop.

Snak fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Aug 11, 2017

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town




Yeah I don't think I died in the River of Blood. You do a lot more damage at that point so I just prioritized not being flanked and taking out the easier guys first. Perfect parries give you Focus, and any time you can use the charged blade attack do it. You should be able to literally (on Normal) take out 2-3 guys in quick succession if you Focus at the right time.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


Haha wow I think I hit a game breaking problem. Although as you can see from this posting I am legitimately terrible at this game so it's not unlikely something just went over my head.

am in the mountain and I went into the basement, where your torch goes out. I think the last rune was down there, but I ran straight through because I didn't understand the light/dark mechanic and now not only can I not find my way back because of the dark and the intense visual effect, but the darkness just kills me before I can find it. Been running around for 20 minutes trying to find it again and it's just this horrid, completely disorienting experience. Is there some way to get another torch so I can at least find my way back there?this doesn't really seem doable

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

veni veni veni posted:

Haha wow I think I hit a game breaking problem. Although as you can see from this posting I am legitimately terrible at this game so it's not unlikely something just went over my head.

am in the mountain and I went into the basement, where your torch goes out. I think the last rune was down there, but I ran straight through because I didn't understand the light/dark mechanic and now not only can I not find my way back because of the dark and the intense visual effect, but the darkness just kills me before I can find it. Been running around for 20 minutes trying to find it again and it's just this horrid, completely disorienting experience. Is there some way to get another torch so I can at least find my way back there?this doesn't really seem doable

Oh yeah, I think you're hosed if you miss that torch. It's apparently an oversight, and a pretty bad one. It resulted in Jim Sterling giving the game a 1/10 review in a fit of rage. Which he has since backpeddled on. But yeah, assuming there really is no fix, that's pretty bad.

I love this game to death, but, like I said, I've also been lucky and not encountered any game breaking glitches or bugs, and you would be the second person I've talked to today who had.

Are you playing on pc? I haven't heard much about it yet, but I'm hoping that pretty soon people will find a way to share saves so that people who get hosed like this don't have to start the game over. Yeah it's only an 8 hour game, but talk about inconvenience and killing momentum and emotional investment.

obviously comprehensive QA is one of the things that suffered in being a "indi AAA" title. I read that only 13 people from Ninja Theory worked on this game. I'm assuming that doesn't count playtesters, but that's a really small team.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


Luckily, I found the torch. It is a massive oversight on the devs part if you miss it. It took 30 minutes of absolute nightmare blind, massively stressful gameplay to find it again but it can be done. That labyrinth is hard enough to navigate when you can actually see, but that is an absolutely massive "gently caress you" to the player for running past a stick, holy moly. They really need to patch some torches into the area where you respawn.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

veni veni veni posted:

Luckily, I found the torch. It is a massive oversight on the devs part if you miss it. It took 30 minutes of absolute nightmare blind, massively stressful gameplay to find it again but it can be done. That labyrinth is hard enough to navigate when you can actually see, but that is an absolutely massive "gently caress you" to the player for running past a stick, holy moly. They really need to patch some torches into the area where you respawn.

Oh, then either that's a different place, or it's already been fixed. Supposedly, in the situation before, you were actually locked out of ever getting the torch back. But also, maybe that was incorrect. Again, while it's clear there are a few gamebreaking glitches, many things reported as glitched have turned out not to be.

I'm glad you don't have to start over.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


I doubt it was patched, because it needs to be there anyways if you don't miss i the first time around. it's just such a bitch to find if you walk past it, that I wouldn't fault someone for just giving up and never touching the game again. I'd defienlty put in my top 5 shittiest things I've ever had to do in a game.

I'm also glad I don't have to start over though. All is forgiven, but I'm half tempted to email Ninja theory about that, because it's really ridiculous.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

Supposedly what happend to Jim Sterling is he ran forward without the torch far enough that it autosaved and he was locked in a room where he couldn't get to a torch, because the game didn't account for someone getting to that room without one. Again, that video has been taken down and he's recanted his 1/10 review, so it's possibly that his situation was actually more like yours.

Like I said, it's pretty obvious at this point that despite being capable of being a great experience, the QA was not as rigorous as it should have been. Which is a real shame. To the point where, despite this being one of my favorite games of the year, I'm kinda waiting to see if things are gonna get patched before continuing to tell people to buy the game.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


Yeah I'm pretty sure the same thing that happened to me happened to him and he just didn't figure out where to go. The locked in a room thing doesn't even make any sense. Believe me I probably know this dumb labyrinth better than anyone now haha. I'll have to check out the review, but it sounds like he wasn't able to articulate what was happening.

On the bright side, if it happens to anyone else I know how to guide them straight there. It's really easy if you know where you need to go.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

At some point I'm gonna draw maps for this game. Because I can. Unless someone rips some out of the PC version first. That's what usually happens.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."




haveblue posted:

Question- When you enter the final portal to hell, the rim lights up with characters that seem to represent the story collectibles you've found. Does anything different happen if you have them all?

You get a hidden last monologue from Druth before you enter the portal.

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town




The autosave is also what screwed my game up before, I think. I quit playing after finishing Red Area, and when it loaded me back into the game, I couldn't go anywhere new and I could clip through doors.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


I think I'm pretty much at the end and I want to finish it first, but I can't wait to about it. I still have really mixed feelings on the game, but they aren't middling. I 70% adore it and think it's one of the most interesting games I've ever played and 30% absolutely hate it.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."




Are any of the lorestones permanently missable? I think I already skipped one in Valravn's zone by mistake and I don't think I can get back until he's dead.

Snak
Oct 10, 2005

I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.


Grimey Drawer

exquisite tea posted:

Are any of the lorestones permanently missable? I think I already skipped one in Valravn's zone by mistake and I don't think I can get back until he's dead.

The ones in Valravn's area you can gonback and get after you beat him.

There plenty of missable ones, though. The first 2 in the game you can't backtrack too once you drop down to get to where the three gates are. There are ones later in zones you can't revisite after you complete.

If you look at the wheel of runes when you find a runestone, you should be able to figure outbwhich section you are on and see how many runes there are in it.

You always find the runes in order. That is, when you find a new runstone, it's the next unread rune in that area. So you always hear the story in order on your first playthrough.

Runestone discovery is saved between playthroughs, so if you miss some, those are the only ones you will need to get on your next playthrough.

My biggest caution if you're trying to get them all on your first time through is to carefully explore before you focus on or open any rune gates, since doing so will sometimes trigger doors to lock behind you.

There is another "collectible" which is not tracked by the game at all, of which I have found 3 that are missable. I suspect there will be one more.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


I watched his video, and Jim Sterling was actually stuck on the part after the one I was stuck on. However, I also got stuck on the same part he did but there was a torch there for me, about 10 feet behind, so either they patched it, or he's just blind.

Chem
Apr 30, 2003



I just finished an hour of this game, I bought it on a whim and I'm shocked at the realism.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


Just wanted to say a few things about the game after finishing it. I know I was having mixed feelings about it early on, but I left feeling like it was such a one of a kind, awesome experience it's hard to fault it for much. I do think it starts a little bit too formulaic. The beginning is so predictable with it's puzzle door, puzzle door, puzzle door, puzzle door, arena fight structure that I was a bit down on it, even though I loved the presentation. I think it really hits it's stride after the first two trials though and I think if I went back and played the beginning again I'd like it more. It mostly keeps that structure, but after a point it clicked, or at least stopped bothering me.

The presentation of the game is insane. The visuals and the audio are some of the most memorable and impressive I've ever seen. Not just in a "nice graphics" kind of way, but I was just blown away by the artistic direction and how intense the audio was, especially with headphones. it had a really unique style I liked a lot. This might not make any sense to anyone else, but it reminded me of something that would have been made in the 70's or 80's, if they had modern technology at their disposal. it felt like some trippy film like Zardoz or Barbarella, except pitch black and spooky as all hell.

Some of the visual trickery was masterful. It didn't feel like a gimmick at all. The game makes you question what you are looking at in such a convincing way, that I think it's easy to be unsure if it was something the devs put in there or if you are imagining things. it's so drat effective. I think that was my favorite thing about the game.

I think it will be a cult hit, with some really die hard supporters. i hope it sells well because it has a lot more heart and creativity than most games. it's the first (almost) strictly narrative game that has really had an impact on me since Soma.

Also, if you like this game and haven't played Soma, play that. They aren't much alike, but I feel like if you like one you would like the other. Soma might look a bit ugly coming off of Hellblade though haha.

veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Aug 12, 2017

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."




If anybody is starting this game for the first time you can manually switch targets by using the right analog stick. There's no visual reticle like in Dark Souls, Senua just looks at them. I discovered this embarrassingly late into the game, like almost at the end.

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005






veni veni veni posted:

Yeah I'm pretty sure the same thing that happened to me happened to him and he just didn't figure out where to go. The locked in a room thing doesn't even make any sense. Believe me I probably know this dumb labyrinth better than anyone now haha. I'll have to check out the review, but it sounds like he wasn't able to articulate what was happening.

On the bright side, if it happens to anyone else I know how to guide them straight there. It's really easy if you know where you need to go.

Can you help me out? I'm really hosed off with this game right now.

I'm in Helheim where I just got an 'R' rune and passed through a waterfall, which put my torch out. I ran forward to a pool of light, but it's autosaved and I can't get any further before the beast kills me (just before a balance beam). The walkthrough says to relight your torch, but I now don't have one.

Have died maybe 30-40 times here.

edit: Welp looks like I'm hosed. The game clearly thinks I'm holding a torch and is animating my character as if she is, but I can't light anything:



Was definitely in my top 5 of the year until now. gently caress.

Necrothatcher fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Aug 12, 2017

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."




Mr. Flunchy posted:

Can you help me out? I'm really hosed off with this game right now.

I'm in Helheim where I just got an 'R' rune and passed through a waterfall, which put my torch out. I ran forward to a pool of light, but it's autosaved and I can't get any further before the beast kills me (just before a balance beam). The walkthrough says to relight your torch, but I now don't have one.

Have died maybe 30-40 times here.

edit: Welp looks like I'm hosed. The game clearly thinks I'm holding a torch and is animating my character as if she is, but I can't light anything:



Was definitely in my top 5 of the year until now. gently caress.

That's unfortunate. Someone on reddit apparently has a save file prior to the torch sequence so you can properly light the brazier:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx...Vl5bFVMUWc/view

You have to replace the file in C:\Users\XXXXX\AppData\Local\HellbladeGame\Saved\SaveGames

I have not tried this myself but it's worth a shot!

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005






exquisite tea posted:

That's unfortunate. Someone on reddit apparently has a save file prior to the torch sequence so you can properly light the brazier:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx...Vl5bFVMUWc/view

You have to replace the file in C:\Users\XXXXX\AppData\Local\HellbladeGame\Saved\SaveGames

I have not tried this myself but it's worth a shot!

I'm on PS4, but thanks anyway.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."




Other people have reported that you can still interact with the brazier even if the torch doesn't visibly display in Senua's hand, but you've probably tried that already. Ninja Theory posted yesterday that they're putting out a patch very shortly.

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005






I mean, it is kinda of ironic that the delete your saves thing is a huge bluff, but it has essentially happened to me.

Still.... this really feels like a pretty major QA oversight.

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.




As someone who played through this game on normal and never died in any combat sequence, here is what I noticed while playing:

- The parry window is massive and lets you get away with blocking even the biggest weapons. Hit block right before the attack lands.
- Melee knocks away shields. I realise that may sound obvious so apologies, but I see all this talk about remembering there's a melee button so yeah
- The running attacks DO NOT require you to actually run. Just hit sprint+button of choice to instantly do them
- Sprint+melee is a fantastic gap closer, interrupter, and guard breaker
- Apply your Focus whenever you can, it can reverse any situation
- If you get knocked on your rear end, button mash to recover almost instantly
- Shrouded opponents become visible through successful parries

Besides regular blocking and attacking, the things in this list will carry your rear end through.

e:

Chem posted:

I just finished an hour of this game, I bought it on a whim and I'm shocked at the realism.

Yeah this is one of those games that shows off what you can do with the engine when a developer is utilizing the tech rather than leaning on it.

Mindblast fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Aug 12, 2017

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Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010



Mindblast posted:

Yeah this is one of those games that shows off what you can do with the engine when a developer is utilizing the tech rather than leaning on it.

Yeah, even on my old as gently caress machine the game looked amazing with a really manageable performance impact. The art direction in this is stellar.


Anyway, it's a bit of an odd comparison, but somehow this game reminded me of Spec Ops: The Line quite a bit.

Both games essentially feature a journey into hell, one of them figuratively and the other quite literally. Both of them show a protagonist who is obsessed with their quest to save somebody or something, to the point of utter exhaustion and desperation. But they go at the same concept from different perspectives, to the point of essentially being mirrors of each other. In Hellblade, Senua's journey is transformative and healing. She begins as a deeply troubled and damaged person with only one single thing left to keep her going, but by facing her fears and confronting her memories she is able to claw her way back towards a semblance of peace. Her journey towards her obsession brings her very near to her breaking point, but in the end she is able to finally let go and move on, finally finding peace.

Meanwhile in Spec Ops, Walker begins as a reasonably healthy individual, but his journey is wholly destructive. At first he doesn't even care all that much about his goal, but as he goes in deeper and deeper he becomes ever more obsessed with finding some kind of resolution. And in doing so he becomes unhinged and damaged, and when he finally reaches his goal it turns out to be utterly hollow. The key difference, I would say, is that while both Walker and Senua start out with altruistic goals in mind, only Senua manages to hold on to her selflessness. Walker, on the other hand, becomes gradually more dismissive of the outside world and focused on himself, searching for a way to find a resolution for himself, revenge for the people he lost, searching for a way so that he could be the hero that saves Dubai.

Apart from that, there are also a handful of other more incidental similarities. Both games play a bit with the concept of the fourth wall, Spec Ops through its loading screen hints and Hellblade by literally looking the player in the eye. Both have a certain surreality with how the protagonists perceive their environments, though it's a bit more subtle in Spec Ops (e.g. the way your are always somehow moving downwards through the levels, deeper than what normal architecture should allow for). They also put a heavy emphasis on conveying a sense of attrition and fatigue suffered by their protagonists. Finally there's also a certain element of mental illness in Spec Ops, in the sense of shell shock and PTSD, though it doesn't really explore that part in nearly as much detail as Hellblade does.


I dunno where I'm going with this, I just found it neat that two so completely different games end up looking at quite similar themes, just from different angles. And they're kind of connected by default just by virtue of being fairly major titles that put a huge emphasis on their story, themes, and presentation.

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