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Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



I was already a father of two in 2009 but Invaders Must Die was a solid album with great cover art. So we'll live with a track from it as the theme for this thread.

Anyway, time for a thought-experiment! Go back in time and sit primary school yourself down for a conversation or just get in touch with your inner child. If you go the former path, make the awkward acquaintance first and get the trivialities of time travel out of the way. Make sure the protogoon is paying as strict attention as possible. Got it? Alright.

Tell mini-you that they will grow up to see a future featuring a concealable, side-by-side double-barrel pistol chambered in a proprietary 12mm cartridge. Tripping the action levers allows the barrels to slip off and be reloaded with a new pair of fresh ones. An integral laser is part of the frame and the awesome thing can take a mounted flashlight. Little guy has a choice between a black pistol or ORANGE! This double-barrel will use large pistol primers to propel a charge of oleoresin capsicum from each barrel at 405 miles per hour.

Now, adult you undoubtedly has opinions right now. Let the child know whether or not they will ever grow up to buy and fiddle with such a thing. If you tell them that it is dumb and their current awe and wonderment will come to nothing, please report back honestly if they kick you in the nuts. Because they should, you monster.





















Little Butch is absolutely giddy to currently have not one but two on his belt right now. He's also bummed that Piexon is pronounced pee-exxon rather than pie-xon.

There are precious few points to go over with this thing. The slide stop looking levers are the barrel latch. Pressing one or both (I find both at once with the thumb and trigger finger to be easiest and most consistent) downward will allow the cartridge to slip off and another locked its place. The trigger is a ~14 pound DAO and mechanical to just cycle between strikers. Three AG13 batteries power the laser. The little button cells in mine arrived dead as the laser was active in the case and drained them. The black rail looking thing on the bottom of the trigger guard is the switch for the laser. Forward to activate, rearward to deactivate. Piexon makes a model with no laser for the Germans but no one cares about them. The black nub on the butt of the grip where a magazine would go in a real pistol is the battery compartment cap. Anterior to that is a recessed lanyard bar.

Three cartridges were once available for the Piexon JPX: a training unit filled with blue food dye, a Law Enforcement cartridge with 5-23 foot range, and consumer cartridge with 5-15 foot range. According to the importer, the consumer cartridge has been discontinued and only the practice and L.E. cartridges remain. Which is fine because the gimped range can FOAD. Anyway, the spray pattern is supposed to average one foot diameter at 15 feet and two foot diameter at 23 feet. Firing at ranges from contact to five feet is considered lethal force. One cop has already blinded a woman for life that he was arresting. His department immediately fired him and left him to the ravages of the district attorney. But that's another story.



Piexon's U.S. sales rep. trains users to aim for the target's chin for best and most consistent results. At ranges below five feet, users are advised to make a chest shot to quickly startle the belligerent and use the second it may buy them to step back to a safe firing range for a proper shot to the face. If aiming a laser at someone's chin seems like a fiddly and possibly ill-advised thing to do, conventional sights are molded into the top of the cartridge. What formula is it spitting at the other guy? A 10% OC mix with 2.5% capsaicinoids. SHU is not a particularly good metric for grading spray but this one clocks in at a net 400,000.

Now why would I spend so much money on such a niche item? Dead serious that my inner child demanded after I fiddled with the one someone sent me to make them these holsters for. Also because it has longer legs, more precision, less wind drift, and less chance of self-contamination than a some dinky aerosol can. Also also no pressurized propellant to leak and render it dead. The ability to add JPX support to my kydex portfolio is a minor bonus. For myself, I'll make a holster for the belt on my hiking pack to have something handy when bumming around the thick of bear country. And a conventional OWB for hiking companions really worried about bruins. My wife also loves the JPX because she will finally get to shoot me in the face as she has so long suppressed the urge to do.

I sold my Glock 43 to fund this. YOLO

Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Aug 10, 2017

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Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice


that thing is nuts

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



I thought those dumb loving things were the most rad until I found out the reloads are like $35

Numlock
May 19, 2007


Black Lives Matter

Cool gat but I'd just tell my younger self to choose a biology focuesed major instead of a electronics based one and to hit the gym more often.

Also to not buy so much dumb poo poo.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

You did it!

That's awesome. Once I get the stuff back, you mind if I do a write-up for the MDFI alumni group? They're pretty big on the JPX platform.



A Wizard of Goatse posted:

I thought those dumb loving things were the most rad until I found out the reloads are like $35

Yeah, but realistically, how much are you planning on firing it? $35 a year in practice cartridges as a refresher isn't bad considering how much money we spend in regular ammo for our carry gun, and a less lethal encounter is statistically far more likely than a lethal encounter. And if I end up using a live cartridge, I'll probably consider it $35 well spent.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



oh I would never use the thing that looks like a gun but cums pepper spray as a serious carry piece it would just be a fun gimmick toy if you could actually shoot it for funsies

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Then get the JPX4 which can be reloaded either with single cartridges or four moon clipped together



infrared35 posted:

...you mind if I do a write-up for the MDFI alumni group?

Sure thing, my love don't come with no strings.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Certified Centrist Trash


So it turns out they make a 4 shot version too.

How much of an issue would wind be on this?

E;FB

Thelonious
Jul 15, 2005



Would the four shot version be a pepperbox pepper gun?

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata


Seems kinda... dumb? Like that kimber pepper blaster thing. Only two shots of "spray" and it comes with all the inherent problems of shooting a pistol accurately under stress.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



It patterns rather than launching a single projectile. You have a one foot circle of OC at 15 feet and double that at 23 feet. It also has a longer range than most any aerosol canister and is not temperature-sensitive. No need to periodically shake as there is with many pressurized sprays, either. It should be less likely to self contaminate the shooter as an added bonus.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Bummey posted:

Seems kinda... dumb? Like that kimber pepper blaster thing. Only two shots of "spray" and it comes with all the inherent problems of shooting a pistol accurately under stress.

It's a lot easier to run a pistol-format dispenser under stress (especially for those of us who shoot pistols regularly) than it is to deploy a spray can that we may have never actually trained with, let alone under stress.

As to the Kimber thing, it's got a very limited range and I don't know if it's reusable.



Butch Cassidy posted:

It patterns rather than launching a single projectile. You have a one foot circle of OC at 15 feet and double that at 23 feet. It also has a longer range than most any aerosol canister and is not temperature-sensitive. No need to periodically shake as there is with many pressurized sprays, either. It should be less likely to self contaminate the shooter as an added bonus.

That too.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



infrared35 posted:

As to the Kimber thing, it's got a very limited range and I don't know if it's reusable.

Disposable and costing about the same as a reload for the JPX. Also has a somewhat clever automatic on/off trigger block safety. It's configured as a very thin over/under and pocketable. I've heard no reports about how well it works, however.

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade





I always wondered when someone would come up with a better option than those stupid pepper balls (remember the OC paintballs?). Guess now I know!

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Speaking of the Kimber Pepper Blaster II, they are made by Piexon and branded for/imported by Kimber. Kimber was also the original importer of the JPX.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



Butch Cassidy posted:

Then get the JPX4 which can be reloaded either with single cartridges or four moon clipped together




Sure thing, my love don't come with no strings.

on my strict gun appreciation rubric of more barrels = better than this is an adequate solution tyvm

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


A Wizard of Goatse posted:

on my strict gun appreciation rubric of more barrels = better than this is an adequate solution tyvm

It's basically just a rip off of: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/680787523

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014




incorrect, the one shoots pepper spray while the other one shoots bullets

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


A Wizard of Goatse posted:

incorrect, the one shoots pepper spray while the other one shoots bullets

Replace the powder with cayenne pepper and the bullet with some wax

e: actually, I'd like to see what that would do.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



replace the wax with some mustard and you got yourself a barbecue

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


A Wizard of Goatse posted:

replace the wax with some mustard and you got yourself a barbecue

This sounds like Chicken N Cheese Part 2

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade





Doctor Grape Ape posted:

Replace the powder with cayenne pepper and the bullet with some wax

e: actually, I'd like to see what that would do.

Are you volunteering to be the test subject?

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Certified Centrist Trash


Shooting Blanks posted:

I always wondered when someone would come up with a better option than those stupid pepper balls (remember the OC paintballs?). Guess now I know!

This doesn't hold a hundred rounds to shoot hostages with in SWAT 5, though.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Bummey posted:

...Only two shots of "spray" and it comes with all the inherent problems of shooting a pistol accurately under stress.

Back to this, here's video of a German doing some calisthenics and getting dizzy before popping a small camera at 4 meters. He's ready to fall over and still managed to center the shot pretty well. Even if he hadn't, you can see how much spread he had to play with and still connect with something.

Compare to some Fox green showing pathetic range, a need to keep it on the target for a bit, and realize that a can really doesn't give you much more than a couple chances to connect. Despite being closer and under no stress, the guy with the spray had some trouble walking it onto the other dude's face.

Popping a full charge in the pull of a trigger and promptly booking it seems preferable to waving a can for a bit if you ask me. Particularly when you will be using it against someone/something you consider a threat and is almost certainly trying to close distance with you.

22 Eargesplitten posted:

How much of an issue would wind be on this?

Just ordered a training cartridge and will pop it off on a windy day after it comes in to let you know.

Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Aug 20, 2017

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Alrighty then, I snapped the training cartridge in place, slipped the JPX in my waistband, and took the dog for a walk. The hot and humid calm before tonight's forecast lightning show is in its full, repressive glory. About a mile into the National Forest, a tight and unkempt loop path branched off. We walked to the high point of that and around a tight, blind corner. A tree happened to be down there and I hung an exacting anatomical target among its branches. Two paces from the target, I marked the trail and three paces further placed another mark to make a zone 6-15 feet from which to fire. I picked a spot 25-30 yards down the slope and ran to it, avoiding branches to my eye, turned at my mark, ran back uphill, avoided more branches, came around the corner into the marked zone, drew, and fired. I will admit that a few yards before the turn, I repeated "aim for the chin" to myself a handful of times:



I could have gotten the shot off notably faster if I hadn't had handguns stuck in my head as it was obviously a total gimme shot. A miss right would have put a world of pain in the mouth, high would have put plenty of OC in the nose and eyes, low would have been fine and plastered a hatefucking in the eyes/nose/mouth, and a miss left would have patterned enough smaller droplets over mucus membranes to light a face afire. The report was a mild thud of slamming piston with maybe a little bark that was drowned out by a very pronounced THWACK! as the payload slammed the target out of the branches. Not pictured but the back of the target is splattered and the branches holding it got douched. So there was more payload in the air while the target was already falling so an actual face would likely have been better hit. There was also notable recoil about like shooting a medium-frame 32 ACP.

Anyone buying a JPX would do well to grab a couple-three trainer cartridges and shoot one charge at a target at a random interval over a period of a few days. That should be enough to get the aim point of the chin in your head versus directly into the nose and eyes as a spray can or firearm would have you aiming for. Recoil is a total non-concern as the long and heavy double-action trigger will slow your shots more and make it irrelevant. Carrying the JPX is also a non-issue as it was comfier than my USPc. Speaking of the HK, I managed not to draw it and negligently drill a 180 grain HST through the target. Yay for that.

Seeing the Piexon in action gave me no concerns about wind. Its effective range would be shortened on an average windy day, the pattern would likely enlarge and ovalize side-to-side, and the chances of self-contamination would go up but it's way better than a pansy EDC spray can.

Next up is to, probably next weekend, have my wife tag me with a live cartridge. I'm planning to call the P.D. the morning of to give them a time and heads-up to avoid a police response. With my luck, some nosy passer-by would report a shooting or assault in progress if I didn't. I may get cheeky and tell dispatch that the officer on duty is more than welcome to swing by and watch if they are having a slow shift and want a cheap laugh.

Edit: There is a pronounced report. Wife just got home a touched off the second shot in our yard. The conversation going at the neighbor's house went silent after the little pow about equivalent to a piston air rifle dieseling. Whoops

E2: My wife took her shot at about the same range I had and got a better pattern as her target didn't get knocked loose.



The holes are from a .22 because we used the backside of a target bound for the trash.

Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Aug 19, 2017

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Awesome.

I didn't notice much noise form mine because I shot it in a wide-open area, and the loudest noise to me was the liquid hitting the target.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Needed more crossdraw in my life:



E: Imgur sucks on a phone these days.

Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Nov 16, 2017

Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

Heh, yeah, 'round here I call myself The Enabler. I suspect pretty much everyone wishes they could be me -- I'm kind of a big deal, you see.


Well that's a rather... old idea.

Reminds me a lot of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp-IM-S4x90

There were also MANY pens that were made to do pretty much this. They are mostly of extremely dubious legality now though because they usually used a standard cartridge to propel the teargas.

far more importantly though, you wrote:


"Butch Cassidy" posted:

Next up is to, probably next weekend, have my wife tag me with a live cartridge. I'm planning to call the P.D. the morning of to give them a time and heads-up to avoid a police response. With my luck, some nosy passer-by would report a shooting or assault in progress if I didn't. I may get cheeky and tell dispatch that the officer on duty is more than welcome to swing by and watch if they are having a slow shift and want a cheap laugh.

How did it feel?

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Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Wife whimped out* and I didn't feel like being miserable out in the cold by the time snow had flown and she was properly on board. She's more comfortable tagging me with a Pepper Blaster II so that's on for spring and uses the same OC gel.

* Mostly afraid of putting my eye out.

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