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Paradoxish
Dec 19, 2003

Will you stop going crazy in there?

Big Mean Jerk posted:

The utopianism also made it near impossible for early TNG writers to generate drama that didn't come from a viewscreen. Hopefully McFarlane isn't planning on going full Gene.

There are a million ways I expect this show to gently caress up, but this isn't really one of them. Gene's take on utopia was, uh, eccentric to say the least. Most writers wouldn't naturally gravitate towards a society with literally no interpersonal conflict because not only is it boring, it leaves you with characters that are barely recognizable as human.

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Sash!
Mar 16, 2001



Early TNG suffered when things got all "a headache? That's SERIOUS BUSINESS!" and "people just shrug and move on with their day when people close to them DIE."

vermin
Feb 28, 2017

Help, I've turned into a manifestation of mental disorders as viewed through an early 20th century lens sparked by the disparity between man and modern society and I can't get up

Paradoxish posted:

There are a million ways I expect this show to gently caress up, but this isn't really one of them.

A Million Ways To gently caress Up In Space

Al Borland Corpse
Mar 4, 2017

Brains, Tim. Brains, Brains, Brains


I would like to see just once, an officer wake up, look at the time, and hit the snooze, then give a bullshit excuse.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

ensign dwarf, set a course for getting blitzed the fuck out

warp factor nine

Al Borland Corp. posted:

Early TNG has the problem of using a lot of barely recycled scripts from the attempted 70s Star Trek reboot in season one for budget reasons, while Season 2 has the same problem for the reason of the writers strike.

TNG only recycled two of the Phase II scripts; the first was season 2's The Child, and the second was season 4's Devil's Due.


I'm pretty sure TNG's first season felt a lot more TOS-like because they had multiple TOS production people working on it early on, so when Gene was too senile to actually run the show, people just defaulted to what they were familiar with on the old show.

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART

Season 1 also suffered from Roddenberry's lawyer meddling with every aspect of the production and turning the writers' room into an extremely hostile work environment. Most of the TOS veterans quit after season 1.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005




Al Borland Corp. posted:

I would like to see just once, an officer wake up, look at the time, and hit the snooze, then give a bullshit excuse.

I liked the TNG episode where this happened but it turned out the excuse was "fishfaced aliens from another dimension abducted me and turned my body into a jigsaw puzzle".

Al Borland Corpse
Mar 4, 2017

Brains, Tim. Brains, Brains, Brains


You're late for shift? Where were you?

... (puts on sunglasses) ... I just got Schismed.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"


I wonder how much poo poo you could get away with on the enterprise or a similar exploration ship.
"I missed my shift because aliens from another plane spent the night communicating with me. The blorpons are a peaceful people and wanted to learn about the federation. They have no way of effecting our universe other than through dreams and only due to that pulsar we passed and can never communicate again. I wrote a report on the culture of the Blorpons, and with permission, I'd like to create a holoprogram about them, I'd only need the next month off and unlimited holodeck time"
"That, that wasn't me who said those horrible cruel things to Geordi, I was under some sort of alien influence! I feel so violated and will need time off on the holodeck."

But I guess this is why the federation has telepaths. Do you think for stories like this they always confirm with a telepath? Or has humanity evolved beyond making up lovely excuses for missing work?

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

ensign dwarf, set a course for getting blitzed the fuck out

warp factor nine

Baronjutter posted:

But I guess this is why the federation has telepaths. Do you think for stories like this they always confirm with a telepath? Or has humanity evolved beyond making up lovely excuses for missing work?

Definitely the latter, both because management doesn't need to feel embiggened by lording over their serfs (so who gives a poo poo if you roll in late every so often), and because people will generally want to be at those jobs because they don't need a job to survive.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012



I think you'd still have lots of people begrudging the work.

Wanting access to travel would motivate people to work. Wanting to achieve status would motivate people to work. Boredom, lack of identity, lack of purpose will drive people to work. I could keep going but you see what I'm getting at: People naturally do more than what it takes to not starve. And they can always begrudge what they have to do to those ends.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



Wait what thread is this?!

Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at Sep 5, 2017 around 18:37

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"


Arglebargle III posted:

Wait what thread is this?!

We're talking about the new star trek series, Orville.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004



There is an Orville review out which starts:

quote:

Consider this a red alert to TV fans everywhere: Are you expecting Seth MacFarlane’s new Fox series The Orville to be a fun Star Trek parody packed with wall-to-wall jokes? Two words of advice: Abandon ship.

That seems... good. The reviewer is probably an idiot, but they do say it is overly preachy and somber, which is the opposite of what people have worried about. Also complaints of Sci-Fi cliches but whatever.

I stopped reading when it was obvious there were plot summaries of several episodes and I didn't want to read them.

The Unlife Aquatic
Jun 17, 2009

Improvement makes straight roads; but the crooked roads without improvement are roads of genius.

As someone who enjoys media more with spoilers I would appreciate a link.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004



The Unlife Aquatic posted:

As someone who enjoys media more with spoilers I would appreciate a link.

Oh yeah, sorry I mean to post it
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/orville-re...-130022178.html



Why the preference for spoilers, though, If I may ask? Stress reduction?

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012



Here you go: TV Line

tl;dr: "This is Seth MacFarland, where's the fart jokes???"

Edit: My main take away from this scathing criticism is they'r recycling plots from TOS and Twilight Zone (gently caress yeah) and there's grandiose orchestral scores (also gently caress yeah).

Edit: Also, I'm looking forward to the robot/[discovering human nature] character being racist instead of severely autistic

Accretionist fucked around with this message at Sep 5, 2017 around 19:30

The Unlife Aquatic
Jun 17, 2009

Improvement makes straight roads; but the crooked roads without improvement are roads of genius.

The Bloop posted:

Oh yeah, sorry I mean to post it
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/orville-re...-130022178.html



Why the preference for spoilers, though, If I may ask? Stress reduction?

The way stories end isn't important, it's how they get there. If you know where you're going you can appreciate the journey more. At least that's how it works for me. I can think less about putting together the plot and more about enjoying all the little incidental details, how everything fits together.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004



The Unlife Aquatic posted:

The way stories end isn't important, it's how they get there. If you know where you're going you can appreciate the journey more. At least that's how it works for me. I can think less about putting together the plot and more about enjoying all the little incidental details, how everything fits together.

Doesn't this bother you when the author intends some things to be unknown, or a twist/surprise?

I mean, The Sixth Sense is still a good movie on a rewatch (for the reasons you mention) but not getting to experience the twist blind feels like, at the very least, a missed opportunity for a major shared experience. Obviously, this doesn't apply to everything, but you wouldn't know that if you hadn't had it spoiled yet.

Different strokes, I guess.

Al Borland Corpse
Mar 4, 2017

Brains, Tim. Brains, Brains, Brains


Eh, the article want very spoiler at all. Want even any plot synopsis, no more than the one sentence blurb you'd see on your program guide on your cable box.

The Unlife Aquatic
Jun 17, 2009

Improvement makes straight roads; but the crooked roads without improvement are roads of genius.

A good twist works even if you know it's coming. It means it's not just relying on surprise, but emotional investment in the work.

vermin
Feb 28, 2017

Help, I've turned into a manifestation of mental disorders as viewed through an early 20th century lens sparked by the disparity between man and modern society and I can't get up

Excuse me, I got on the Seth Macfarlane ride expecting there to be poopy sex fart jokes with punchlines that end in baby corpses. I think I'd like my money back.

Al Borland Corpse
Mar 4, 2017

Brains, Tim. Brains, Brains, Brains


The sucker doesn't even do anything close to revealing any twists. It just says "Episode 2 deals with issue X" and "Episode 3 deals with issue Y"

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004



The Unlife Aquatic posted:

A good twist works even if you know it's coming. It means it's not just relying on surprise, but emotional investment in the work.

Sure, but why not both? Surprise is a legitimate human emotion to write toward. Totally anecdotal but I know a number of people who saw the sixth sense with and without knowing ahead of time, and those who didn't know the twist universally reported enjoying the surprise. You can still watch it again, knowing. It seems like you cut your viewing experience in half, with spoilers.

Al Borland Corp. posted:

The sucker doesn't even do anything close to revealing any twists. It just says "Episode 2 deals with issue X" and "Episode 3 deals with issue Y"

Ok cool. Again, not wanting spoilers, I stopped reading when they seemed they might appear. Lots of tools on the internet have no filter or decency.

JeremoudCorbynejad
Jul 6, 2007




The Orville turns out to be a ghost ship

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.

Grimey Drawer

My local listings have the show airing Sundays at 5:00 and the same episode again at 8:00. Weird! Maybe they're scheduling it like that to account for afternoon NFL games going (really really) long? I'm on the West Coast, so at least I can be pretty sure that games will be over by 8!

Al Borland Corpse
Mar 4, 2017

Brains, Tim. Brains, Brains, Brains


That sounds like you're just seeing the listing for the east coast and West coast feeds

3 DONG HORSE
May 21, 2008

I'd like to thank Satan for everything he's done for this organization


The Orville takes place inside Roger's rear end in a top hat which actually turns out to be string theory when Peter pulls a long thread out of Brian,s rear end in a top hat.


There I spoiled it for all of you

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.

Grimey Drawer

Al Borland Corp. posted:

That sounds like you're just seeing the listing for the east coast and West coast feeds

I thought that at first, but the (over-the-air broadcast) schedule lists the same channels for both airings, for me:

http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tv/the...5634?aid=zap2it

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"


The twist is that every episode ends with an extremely aged and chubby Will Riker in bad "young makeup" walking off the holodeck.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004



Baronjutter posted:

The twist is that every episode ends with an extremely aged and chubby Will Riker in bad "young makeup" walking off the holodeck.

Still would.

BattleTech
Jun 6, 2010

Is this easy mode?


Fun Shoe

http://time.com/4895217/best-new-fall-tv-shows-2017/

Time posted:

This overstuffed and perhaps overambitious hour was created by and stars Family Guy mastermind Seth MacFarlane and yet plays it entirely straight. Indeed, the series, an overt homage to the original Star Trek, has far fewer out-and-out jokes than one might expect, instead relying on a general tone of zany adventurousness to earn your attention. Though far from perfect in its early going, the show’s fun, sunny energy could win over fans of classic sci-fi and those who vibe with MacFarlane’s geekier, less nihilistic impulses.

E: I wonder if this show will ever have a four lights moment?

Krailor
Nov 2, 2001
I'm only pretending to care

Taco Defender

CPColin posted:

I thought that at first, but the (over-the-air broadcast) schedule lists the same channels for both airings, for me:

http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tv/the...5634?aid=zap2it

Maybe your Fox affiliate is just lazy and instead of local news they show the east coast Fox feed followed by the west coast Fox feed.

Cross-Section
Mar 18, 2009



Fun Shoe

Show sounds not good:

quote:

When the dust settles, “The Orville” may emerge as the most inexplicable show of the new season. It certainly never makes a convincing case for its existence. The first impression — that it exists so that creator and star Seth MacFarlane can do elaborate “Star Trek” cosplay — is only reinforced over the course of the tepid trio of episodes that kick off the show.

quote:

There is an attempt to do something unusual with one species: An officer aboard the Orville named Bortus (Peter Macon) is from a planet populated exclusively by males, as is his mate, Klyden (Chad L. Coleman). The third installment, which is devoted entirely to their efforts to expand their family, is one of the most spectacular and unfortunate storytelling fails of the year.

An air of self-congratulation hangs over the entire hour, as if MacFarlane, who wrote it, couldn’t get over his awe at his own bravery in engaging with a difficult, complex topic. Without giving anything away, suffice it to say that the show takes a big creative swing tackling issues of gender and identity, but it does not connect, and the end result is disastrous. If it’s challenging for “The Orville” to wring laughs from the audience, it’s all but impossible for it to earn the dramatic (and tone-deaf) conclusion it attempts in the third episode.

Drink-Mix Man
Mar 4, 2003

You are an odd fellow, but I must say... you throw a swell shindig.

Haha, even Seth MacFarlane beat Star Trek to having gay regulars

Al Borland Corpse
Mar 4, 2017

Brains, Tim. Brains, Brains, Brains


I swear that top line is plagiarized from the other review that was posted earlier.

BattleTech
Jun 6, 2010

Is this easy mode?


Fun Shoe


Eh, the absolute worst Star Trek episode was the second TNG episode. So I'll just take a wait and see approach.

turn left hillary!! noo
Feb 12, 2002

Komrade Hitlerstalin
EX-GAIJIN AT LAST


Overambitious? Played straight? Zany adventurousness? How can I not give this a chance?

Edit: I mean zany played straight is like Star Trek to a T. It's B5. It's kinda Agents of SHIELD now that I try hard to think of contemporary examples.

I'm in.

turn left hillary!! noo fucked around with this message at Sep 6, 2017 around 03:21

Drink-Mix Man
Mar 4, 2003

You are an odd fellow, but I must say... you throw a swell shindig.

Let's just get the "Save Orville" campaigns going already

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mycomancy
Oct 16, 2016


I'm not certain if these reviews are negative. The reviewers seem like mildly retarded folk who respond to the "deep familial themes" in the Fast and Furious movies.

I for one will be watching The Orville with cautious optimism.

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