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Jeb! Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.


My biggest concern is that MacFarlane's making the characters too cliched. I mean come on, resentful ex is his second in command, and the human bridge staff are his supportive best friend and a black guy with no filter?

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Mr. Fowl
Mar 8, 2008

nononononono


Unless it bores me to tears or pisses me off I'll give it a season, probably. Utopian scifi feels like a good idea right now.

Autism Sneaks
Nov 21, 2016


mycomancy posted:

I'm not certain if these reviews are negative. The reviewers seem like mildly retarded folk who respond to the "deep familial themes" in the Fast and Furious movies.

I for one will be watching The Orville with cautious optimism.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



Jeb! Repetition posted:

My biggest concern is that MacFarlane's making the characters too cliched. I mean come on, resentful ex is his second in command, and the human bridge staff are his supportive best friend and a black guy with no filter?

Oh my God they accidentally made McCoy the captain!

Jeb! Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.


Mr. Fowl posted:

Unless it bores me to tears or pisses me off I'll give it a season, probably. Utopian scifi feels like a good idea right now.

Yeah it's something we really need and MacFarlane understands, but that just makes me dread it not being good even more.

8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!


Grimey Drawer

There's a difference between being "not good" and being "bad". If Orville is just ok that's still better than what we currently have (which as far as Utopian sci-fi is nothing).

Just ok got Agents of Shield 3 seasons so far.

basic hitler
Dec 28, 2006

IF YOU SEE ME BITCHING ABOUT BEING POOR ITS PROBABLY BECAUSE IM OUT OF HEROIN AGAIN


There is zero chance STD is going to be good, so if The Orville rises up to the occasion of being at least as good as an early season of TNG or DS9, that's something i can live with.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

Cephalopod Underground




8one6 posted:


Just ok got Agents of Shield 3 seasons so far.

And the third season was pretty amazing stuff compared to the first two. Just like TNG.

A.I. Borgland Corp
Mar 4, 2017

Resistance is futile, Tim


They've had four seasons and going into their fifth.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

Cephalopod Underground




Oh right, I meant fourth. The last one. Ghost Rider and Agents of Hydra. Good fun TV.

8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!


Grimey Drawer

Al Borland Corp. posted:

They've had four seasons and going into their fifth.

Really? Not bad for the okayest genre show on tv.

Vitamin P
Nov 19, 2013

just so it's clear

This is so tantalising. Maybe those reviewers just don't get it or maybe this will be a self-indulgent mess. I honestly can't remember being so intrigued by a show.

3 DONG HORSE
May 21, 2008

I'd like to thank Satan for everything he's done for this organization


I figure if I can survive the worst of TOS then this will look like loving Shakespeare to me

Wandle Cax
Dec 15, 2006


mycomancy posted:

I'm not certain if these reviews are negative. The reviewers seem like mildly retarded folk who respond to the "deep familial themes" in the Fast and Furious movies.

I for one will be watching The Orville with cautious optimism.

Let me try and help, the reviews are negative and saying that the show is both unfunny and fails as a dramatic show and is nothing more than a self-indulgent vanity project for McFarlane

R-Type
Oct 10, 2005


Wandle Cax posted:

Let me try and help, the reviews are negative and saying that the show is both unfunny and fails as a dramatic show and is nothing more than a self-indulgent vanity project for McFarlane

when the left eats the left in Hollywood, it means they have a huge hit on their hands.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

PARTY ON, GARTH OF IZAR


Even if this show and STD are both poo poo it doesn't matter since The Expanse exists

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"


Tighclops posted:

Even if this show and STD are both poo poo it doesn't matter since The Expanse exists

Truth, I haven't enjoyed a scifi since DS9 and expanse is very good.

A.I. Borgland Corp
Mar 4, 2017

Resistance is futile, Tim


The Expanse isn't optimistic sci fi, it's gritty and dark.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

PARTY ON, GARTH OF IZAR


Al Borland Corp. posted:

The Expanse isn't optimistic sci fi, it's gritty and dark.

It's gritty but I wouldn't call it dark; there's hopefulness and social commentary baked into the setting. It's not utopian at all but it's definitely the best space opera on TV, and miles ahead of other current genre shows

I mean Star Trek it's not, but my point was basically that it's no longer 1987 and we got options

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"


Al Borland Corp. posted:

The Expanse isn't optimistic sci fi, it's gritty and dark.

Humans have a space faring civilization and earth has a functional united government with basic welfare, all after climate change, that's optimistic as gently caress from where I'm standing.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012




Al Borland Corp. posted:

The Expanse isn't optimistic sci fi, it's gritty and dark.

The Martian is canon to The Expanse, so it can't be that dark.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012



Optimism brings D+ sci-fi up to B+ sci-fi.

And I am optimistic for The Orville!

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Baronjutter posted:

Humans have a space faring civilization and earth has a functional united government with basic welfare, all after climate change, that's optimistic as gently caress from where I'm standing.

I feel the same way about it. People are still people and bad poo poo happens but humanity got through all the challenges on Earth intact and is becoming a galactic civilization. Things worked out decently.

JeremoudCorbynejad
Jul 6, 2007




You know the world is in a sorry state when our utopian fiction is based around the concept of "yeah we just barely survived all that"

A.I. Borgland Corp
Mar 4, 2017

Resistance is futile, Tim


The Expanse doesn't really have aliens or exploration does it? Isn't it mostly politics?

Flatscan
Mar 27, 2001

Outlaw Journalist



Al Borland Corp. posted:

The Expanse doesn't really have aliens or exploration does it? Isn't it mostly politics?

There are aliens, or at least alien bio-tech, right from the start. Massive book spoiler:Later there is interstellar travel.

A.I. Borgland Corp
Mar 4, 2017

Resistance is futile, Tim


From various write ups I had read on Arstechnica I just got the impression it was about mining labor disputes.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Tell him about the Twinkie.

Al Borland Corp. posted:

From various write ups I had read on Arstechnica I just got the impression it was about mining labor disputes.

Ars has never been a bastion of particularly good reviews outside of technology / hardware--those years of Ben Kuchera, sweet Jesus--but their culture reviews have really, really gone into the shitter ever since Lee Hutchinson took over that department. Nowadays, their review of anything cultural, be it a book, movie, TV show, what have you, is basically shaded by insane hyperbole and ridiculous amounts of begging the question (which is to say, making an argument based upon facts not in evidence). I just checked their Expanse writeups and, yep, most of them have been done by Annalee Newitz, who just spouts the most inane tripe.

I don't think Expanse is a stone-cold classic, but it's definitely worth watching a few episodes to see if it's your speed.

A.I. Borgland Corp
Mar 4, 2017

Resistance is futile, Tim


Annalee Newitz is definitely the Gene Shalit of online reviews

3 DONG HORSE
May 21, 2008

I'd like to thank Satan for everything he's done for this organization


The Expanse is about a universe where we have exactly the same problems except in space. It is not utopian in the slightest.

It's a loving great show.

thexerox123
Aug 17, 2007



JeremoudCorbynejad posted:

You know the world is in a sorry state when our utopian fiction is based around the concept of "yeah we just barely survived all that"

Star Trek had humanity getting out into space despite barely surviving the Eugenics War and WW3.

JeremoudCorbynejad
Jul 6, 2007




Good point.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



If all my regular problems were just in space that would be pretty utopian for me.

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.


Those 'negative' reviews and 'spoilers' make me want to watch it a lot more than when I first heard about it. I can't stand Family Guy so if this isn't that, I'm happy.

3 DONG HORSE
May 21, 2008

I'd like to thank Satan for everything he's done for this organization


Aphrodite posted:

If all my regular problems were just in space that would be pretty utopian for me.

No, I mean corruption, corporate greed, selfishness, vendettas, nationalism, etc. Life is not cherished unless its your own faction (barely). MAD is the only thing keeping the peace.

It's the anti-Star Trek.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"


3 DONG HORSE posted:

No, I mean corruption, corporate greed, selfishness, vendettas, nationalism, etc. Life is not cherished unless its your own faction (barely). MAD is the only thing keeping the peace.

It's the anti-Star Trek.

I'd love something slightly cyberpunk grimdark like the expanse to actually over the seasons show how things can get better, show the transition to a more optimistic future. What I hate is this idea (how ever valid it might be) that nothing will ever get better, any human society will just be hopelessly terrible and every good act will be undone, every step of progress rolled back or countered by something worse.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

ensign dwarf, set a course for getting blitzed the fuck out

warp factor nine

thexerox123 posted:

Star Trek had humanity getting out into space despite barely surviving the Eugenics War and WW3.

Sure, but Star Trek itself took place hundreds of years after those events. Humans in Star Trek don't go to war with each other and all of their basic needs are met in a largely ethical society.


In The Expanse, Earth might be providing "basic subsistence" (and are we certain that it actually covers food/healthcare/shelter?) but my understanding is that it's doing so in part by exploiting the Belters and they'd be in big trouble if material ever stopped flowing from the Belt.

BattleTech
Jun 6, 2010

Is this easy mode?


Fun Shoe

http://deadline.com/2017/09/the-orv...deo-1202162848/

Another mostly useless review. How can someone write 1000 words about the fact that they don't like something and then not give a specific example of what they don't like?

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007



Baronjutter posted:

I'd love something slightly cyberpunk grimdark like the expanse to actually over the seasons show how things can get better, show the transition to a more optimistic future. What I hate is this idea (how ever valid it might be) that nothing will ever get better, any human society will just be hopelessly terrible and every good act will be undone, every step of progress rolled back or countered by something worse.
Yeah, I think the Expanse avoids that cynical extreme. The books especially show pretty idyllic attitudes towards sex/gender/non-standard relationships, for instance. All of that stuff is explored and fine in the future. But people are still people and capitalism is still capitalism (even if it's a given that everyone's in a union, and no one on Earth has to pay for housing and healthcare), and there are still deep divides between people and individual greed that leads to horrible tragedies.

It's not the anti-Star Trek. It's not exploring a pessimistic extreme in contrast to an optimistic ideal. It's just kind of grinding along, with some things improving but people continuing to be people. I think it's going to ultimately be optimistic- it's about people trying to make a difference in a lovely world- but the books are pretty drat dark so far.

If you want something that looks dark but is about the potential transition to something more ideal, you're looking for some more recent Kim Stanley Robinson books, particularly New York 2140.

And if you want something that's totally utopian but still explores darker aspects you're looking for Ian M Bank's Culture books.

I really like utopian fiction. When you get down to it though it's a lot harder to make it work as a story than dystopian fiction. Exploring an ideal society in a story that naturally has to feature conflict (or it's a boring story) is difficult. I hope The Orville doesn't gently caress it up.

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A.I. Borgland Corp
Mar 4, 2017

Resistance is futile, Tim


This seems like it's going to be a review then at the end says "Click on my review", uh, what? I don't see a link, I thought this WAS the review.

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