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Democrazy
Oct 16, 2008

If you're not willing to lick the boot, then really why are you in politics lol? Everything is a cycle of just getting stomped on so why do you want to lose to it over and over, just submit like me, I'm very intelligent.

QuoProQuid posted:

Attempts to compare the United States and Roman Empire tend to reveal more about a person's ignorance of history than any lessons that are actually relevant today. It combines nihilism, anti-Americanism, and a lack of historical perspective.

There are superficial comparisons, like their international dominance and problems related to climate, but the analogy falls apart if a person thinks about it for more than ten minutes. The United States is not constantly besieged by barbarian tribes. It is not subjected to regular civil wars and pretender-led uprisings. The military is not an actor in the political process. As much as pundits would claim otherwise, the Senate is not a powerless body that can be cowed by whichever strongman appears to be on the rise. Inequality is encoded throughout the American political process, but the United States is not at a point where you have to be a descendant of one of the founding fathers to lead. There are problems with American cities, but they are not the filthy, noisy streets of Rome. Rome never had to contend with a globe of rivals and the United States has never been isolated from other large powers. There is no comparison between today's ideological battles and the disputes that divided Roman elites.

I could go on, but I'd like to end with a note that the "West" is more than just the United States. Even if, beyond all logic and reason, you think the United States is in a downward spiral, there's no reason to think that powers like the European Union would twiddle their thumbs and await death.

I always thought that, if you could slot America right now into any Roman timeframe, it would be comfortably after the Second Punic War. Still challenges to the east, but the dominant power; also, conservative Romans are started to complain that the lack of a mortal enemy like Carthage made Romans weak and decadent. No one's killing purely for political gain yet, but the newfound wealth brought on by conflict is slowly eroding democracy. It's still pretty tenuous, but we certainly are not near the Julius Caesar part, where there were already several civil wars.

Some Roman authors talk about the Augustan era as a time of irrevocable decline. We have no idea whether we are at our peak.

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