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Regarde Aduck
Oct 18, 2012

haha


Grimey Drawer

Wolfsheim posted:

Okay I keep hearing about this Genshin game and how its anime but not weird sexual overt anime so I looked at a stream of it for a few minutes and it was literally a French maid being yelled at by some kind of high-pitched fairy

You have a strange idea of sex

And that's ok

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Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Alchenar posted:

I've realised my real problem with the Odyssey protagonists is that in every other AC game the player character feels like a real person doing things a real person could plausibly do if they were at the peak of physical fitness and had years of training and experience (yeah Edward's bullshitting with the hidden blade, but everything else is just pirate skills). Odyssey is where we go 'nah a real person couldn't do any of this, the PC is magic' and it breaks my suspension of disbelief.

In Syndicate Evie can literally turn herself invisible.

bike tory
May 6, 2007



The magic stuff means we got to fight giant monsters and they were cool as hell, so im fine with that.

I want setting realism, I don't care whether the characters and combat and poo poo are magical.

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist


...You realize that Skyrim is a fantasy game when you see that very low percentage of populace is involved in farming and industry; most citizens of Skyrim are members of the army or bandits which is a completely unrealistic economy.

Also the fact that there's a spell allowing any novice mage to transform a chunk of iron ore into gold and this spell didn't destroy the economy.

Sinteres
Mar 26, 2004
Please don't be rude, it upsets me when I'm trying to be smug

Free climb just flat out makes the game more playable, while the superhero thing is just to make the character a badass, so I don't see them as really being the same thing. I was fine with it in Odyssey, and think it worked well with the story/setting, but I wouldn't want every Assassin from now on to be a walking demigod.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Namaer posted:

I got a subscription to Uplay+ and played through the main quest of Origins, which was my first AC game. Working on Odyssey now after trying AC1 and bouncing off of it because of extremely janky controls. What's the earliest game in the series that plays somewhat similarly to Origins?

That's it. Origins was a major shift in the gameplay (which is the eternal argument we're having right now - regardless of how good Origins and Odyssey are, are they really 'AC' games?).

I can absolutely get bouncing off AC1 because of the jank - it's a problem to vary degrees in all the titles. I would play Syndicate a bit to see if you like a game that's set entirely in a city, and if you do then play AC2 and Brotherhood after that.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




The PC port of AC2 was complete arse for me, years after release and having the played the better-performing Black Flag beforehand.

The Full Sync objectives were so completely dreadful in it's first three titles, that an improvement in Black Flag not having to get hit every goal in the same attempt, and Origins further perfected the mechanic by dumping it in a loving bin.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Who gives a gently caress about realism when you can ride a fabulous unicorn.

JustaDamnFool
Mar 2, 2019


Assassin's Creed being one the few (only?) series to recreate historical settings with a AAA budget is a fairly large draw to the series for me at least, so I think it'd be a shame if they threw out all pretences of accuracy.

Simone Magus
Sep 29, 2020


Namaer posted:

I got a subscription to Uplay+ and played through the main quest of Origins, which was my first AC game. Working on Odyssey now after trying AC1 and bouncing off of it because of extremely janky controls. What's the earliest game in the series that plays somewhat similarly to Origins?

Syndicate is the one that bridges the old and new styles, and it's great. If you like it, you can play the other older ones

BaldDwarfOnPCP
Jun 26, 2019





JustaDamnFool posted:

Assassin's Creed being one the few (only?) series to recreate historical settings with a AAA budget is a fairly large draw to the series for me at least, so I think it'd be a shame if they threw out all pretences of accuracy.

So the gay horse is actually a little late in the game as you play/discover it.

The actual men and women in greece being greasy that's just all over the place and frankly wrong.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."




As someone of Greek ancestry, I can confirm that everyone's faces in Odyssey looking like they are smeared in vaseline is 100% accurate.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013




JustaDamnFool posted:

I think its fair to say that you can suspend your disbelief for actions that would take someone being at PEAK PHYSICAL PERFORMANCE and even a little bit beyond that, but be put off by the straight up magic in Odyssey. When Isu tech turned up in earlier games it was very much end game stuff and often came with the implication that messing with knowledge beyond your ken could come with terrible consequences, whereas the spear of Leonidus is pretty much just a magic weapon. Of course any real issues with this are going to be a matter of taste.

Honestly I think the biggest issue with the bigger commitment to fantasy stylings is that its still stuck with the albatross around the neck that is the modern day/Isu plots. The wonder of interacting with mythological beings like Odin are kinda undermined when you know he's just an ancient but particularly advanced Clippy.

I agree with your second point here. I wish they would just dump the pointless and annoying modern plot and let the myth stuff stay myth. It really undercut Atlantis and what were supposed to be really emotional moments when we already know it's just a hologram.

Sinteres
Mar 26, 2004
Please don't be rude, it upsets me when I'm trying to be smug

Eimi posted:

I agree with your second point here. I wish they would just dump the pointless and annoying modern plot and let the myth stuff stay myth. It really undercut Atlantis and what were supposed to be really emotional moments when we already know it's just a hologram.

I feel that way too, but tbf it's all a game and not real anyway, and the animus is already not supposed to be a 100% accurate retelling of that person's life, adding yet another layer of unreality, so I also kind of feel like I shouldn't care if it's not real in that not real world. Still kinda do though.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Alchenar posted:

I've realised my real problem with the Odyssey protagonists is that in every other AC game the player character feels like a real person doing things a real person could plausibly do if they were at the peak of physical fitness

how much physical fitness do i have to do to telepathically communicate with a hawk or see enemies through walls

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Earwicker posted:

how much physical fitness do i have to do to telepathically communicate with a hawk or see enemies through walls

more than you’re doing

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



JustaDamnFool posted:

Assassin's Creed being one the few (only?) series to recreate historical settings with a AAA budget is a fairly large draw to the series for me at least, so I think it'd be a shame if they threw out all pretences of accuracy.

Ghost of Tsushima is most likely going to be a series and that setting is even more historical, since it isn't covered in gamey animus bullshit

i love the historical settings of AC but it's rarely had many "pretences of accuracy" other than the architecture. everything else is paper thin at best and the player's interactions with the world have always been full of all kinds of nonsense justified by "it's the Animus".

i do agree it would be better if they just got rid of all the modern day poo poo and made games about history BUT i hope they never take away bird mode. its my favorite addition since Origins

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


is there a watchdogs legion thread yet?



JustaDamnFool posted:

Assassin's Creed being one the few (only?) series to recreate historical settings with a AAA budget is a fairly large draw to the series for me at least, so I think it'd be a shame if they threw out all pretences of accuracy.

ehh. i mean its historical fiction/sci fi. its close enough aesthetically that i have never been drawn out of the setting. AC has never been kingdom come where it sold itself as some super duper accurate potrayl of the setting and than suffered because it fell short on a bunch of levels.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


Earwicker posted:

Ghost of Tsushima is most likely going to be a series and that setting is even more historical, since it isn't covered in gamey animus bullshit

i love the historical settings of AC but it's rarely had many "pretences of accuracy" other than the architecture. everything else is paper thin at best and the player's interactions with the world have always been full of all kinds of nonsense justified by "it's the Animus".

i do agree it would be better if they just got rid of all the modern day poo poo and made games about history BUT i hope they never take away bird mode. its my favorite addition since Origins

i love tsushima. but its about as accurate as AC in alot of ways. it just doesn't have the sci fi poo poo.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Kingdcom Come isn't bad, it's an interesting game imo. it certainly was released in a poo poo state but they fixed a lot of the problems and its a very small team so i think some jankiness is forgiveable. I agree the AC series will never go there, but I'd love more games like KC:D in different historical settings

Dapper_Swindler posted:

i love tsushima. but its about as accurate as AC in alot of ways. it just doesn't have the sci fi poo poo.

the over arching story is not historically accurate of course and they completely changed the geography of that island, I just mean the protagonist doesn't do any superhuman things with the aid of scifi/fantasy plot devices (unless you do the multiplayer) except maybe the enemy spotting trick.

and there are a lot of nice quality of life things that just make it feel more realistic like having the wind show you where to go instead of a big glowing marker on the screen. that stuff helps a lot imo. i turn off most of the HUD in AC games but man by defautl they really clutter that screen up with stuff

Earwicker fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Oct 25, 2020

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


Earwicker posted:

Kingdcom Come isn't bad, it's an interesting game imo. it certainly was released in a poo poo state but they fixed a lot of the problems and its a very small team so i think some jankiness is forgiveable. I agree the AC series will never go there, but I'd love more games like KC:D in different historical settings


the over arching story is not historically accurate of course and they completely changed the geography of that island, I just mean the protagonist doesn't do any superhuman things with the aid of scifi/fantasy plot devices (unless you do the multiplayer) except maybe the enemy spotting trick.

and there are a lot of nice quality of life things that just make it feel more realistic like having the wind show you where to go instead of a big glowing marker on the screen. that stuff helps a lot imo. i turn off most of the HUD in AC games but man by defautl they really clutter that screen up with stuff

I liked Parts of KC. it just wish the game was better i guess and the lead dude wasn't a loud rear end in a top hat who started shitshows.

yeah i love ghosts. it feels like the alternate path AC could have taken if they ditched the old combat system but kept it similar. personaly i like both new ac combat and ghosts for different flavors.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Earwicker posted:

how much physical fitness do i have to do to telepathically communicate with a hawk or see enemies through walls

About as much as you need to conceptualise your health in a series of horizontal bars on the top left corner of your vision. Obviously I'm not including the visual concessions to make it a functioning game.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Alchenar posted:

About as much as you need to conceptualise your health in a series of horizontal bars on the top left corner of your vision. Obviously I'm not including the visual concessions to make it a functioning game.

i think being able to control a bird with your mind is a little bit more than a "visual concession to make it a functioning game"

yes health bars are an obvious visual concession and most people can come up with some kind of internal concept of their own health. but there is all kinds of stuff in pre-Odyssey games that is pure scifi/fantasy nonsense. sailors didn't learn sea chanties by chasing glowing things around on rooftops, etc.

Earwicker fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Oct 25, 2020

Evil Canadian
Sep 10, 2000

No one man should have all that Psycho-Power.



Every playable character in an AC game is like, partially alien/isu hybrid DNA or whatever right?

So as for them being peak human/maybe a little bit beyond that, I guess that's fine.

I found it more jarring honestly when I finally played uncharted for the first time and people are moving around the same way as AC climbing around with zero struggle or effort, since they are "normal" people. Compared to movement in say, Tomb Raider, where they animate it so Lara is visibly struggling with some of the crazier movement.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Earwicker posted:

i think being able to control a bird with your mind is a little bit more than a "visual concession to make it a functioning game"

yes health bars are an obvious visual concession and most people can come up with some kind of internal concept of their own health. but there is all kinds of stuff in pre-Odyssey games that is pure scifi/fantasy nonsense. sailors didn't learn sea chanties by chasing glowing things around on rooftops, etc.

Yeah you're just being obtuse here. Of course the games have always been games and therefore structured like games.


e: another way of putting it is 'could you see this in a Bond/Bourne/Mission Impossible film?' The pre-Odyssey AC games all keep the parkour and combat within that space. Odyssey blasts well clear of it. Again, not saying that's bad, but it is extremely different.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Alchenar posted:

Yeah you're just being obtuse here. Of course the games have always been games and therefore structured like games.

not just games but specifically scifi games in which the protagonist does all kinds of superhuman poo poo that is justified explicity by scifi/fantasy logic. that's the entire premise of the games, it's not something recently introduced by Odyssey

there are in fact games that do not make those kinds of visual concessions or give their protogonists superhuman abilites, they are still games. the AC series goes way further with that kind of stuff than many other games do.

Alchenar posted:

e: another way of putting it is 'could you see this in a Bond/Bourne/Mission Impossible film?' The pre-Odyssey AC games all keep the parkour and combat within that space. Odyssey blasts well clear of it.

right, there is a ton of poo poo in Bond that is pure fantasy they just use "secret government tech gadgets" instead of a scifi story to explain it away. I don't see how Odyssey in particular breaks away from that any more than the previous game did, or the ones before that

Earwicker fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Oct 25, 2020

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

and god is on your side
dividing sparrows from the nightingales

I'm mostly ambivalent about the historical settings of AC because the only one thats truly intrigued me was Origins. Odyssey just looks like someone's vacation photos and I only liked Syndicate in spite of it being set in 19th century London, the most overused historical fiction setting in the Western world. Haven't played Black Flag, Rogue or Unity yet.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

is there a watchdogs legion thread yet?

Is there ever!

https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...hreadid=3945175

Its kinda dropped off since the games not out yet and there is minimal hype for it

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist


Evil Canadian posted:

So as for them being peak human/maybe a little bit beyond that, I guess that's fine.

I think it's not in every game, but at least in Black Flag and Origins/Odyssey everyone can climb anything? As in in AC1 or 2 when you climb away from the enemies they just throw rocks at you, in AC3/4 and later they can follow you anywhere.

It's a good point AC is one of the very few historical games that allow you to see things on the ground (most historical games are strategy or wargames mostly showing you maps). Still, I think it's fine that gameplay and story only use history as an inspiration. Environment and visual design get all the historical effort.

Perhaps it's even good for the series that Odyssey uses more clearly legendary stuff in the story and combat. This makes people at least understand it's not supposed to be historical. The real problem is when people think previous AC games stories or combat had more to do with reality than the adventures of immortal Greek mercenary.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Wolfsheim posted:

I only liked Syndicate in spite of it being set in 19th century London, the most overused historical fiction setting in the Western world

it's pretty rare in gaming though. Other than Bloodborne drawing influence from the general vibe, I can't think of any other games that take place in 19th century London since that Lucararts Sherlock Holmes adventure game in the 90's

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

and god is on your side
dividing sparrows from the nightingales

Earwicker posted:

it's pretty rare in gaming though. Other than Bloodborne drawing influence from the general vibe, I can't think of any other games that take place in 19th century London since that Lucararts Sherlock Holmes adventure game in the 90's

Vampyr was the free PSN game this month! It was mostly bad.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


Evil Canadian posted:

Every playable character in an AC game is like, partially alien/isu hybrid DNA or whatever right?

So as for them being peak human/maybe a little bit beyond that, I guess that's fine.

I found it more jarring honestly when I finally played uncharted for the first time and people are moving around the same way as AC climbing around with zero struggle or effort, since they are "normal" people. Compared to movement in say, Tomb Raider, where they animate it so Lara is visibly struggling with some of the crazier movement.

sorta. i think its kinda of a "everyone of them have some ISU in them on some level" some more than others.


Wolfsheim posted:

I'm mostly ambivalent about the historical settings of AC because the only one thats truly intrigued me was Origins. Odyssey just looks like someone's vacation photos and I only liked Syndicate in spite of it being set in 19th century London, the most overused historical fiction setting in the Western world. Haven't played Black Flag, Rogue or Unity yet.


Is there ever!

https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...hreadid=3945175

Its kinda dropped off since the games not out yet and there is minimal hype for it

yeah. i am not shocked. WD is kinda of weird series that is still early in its life and its not really sure what its tone is or whats its about. like AC has some core ideneties/features/etc even if they change poo poo up alot and add and remove stuff but overall it has a tone its found and such. as has far cry. WD still hasnt really found a tone yet. 1 was stupid and gritty and clearly rewritten at the last min and 2 was fun and goofy but also no real good plot or throughline outside likable characters. legion seems cool and i like the game director alot so i think it might have a better tone but we will see.

Simone Magus
Sep 29, 2020


Earwicker posted:

how much physical fitness do i have to do to telepathically communicate with a hawk or see enemies through walls

You mean you can't already? smh

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



the multiplayer in WD2 is exactly what i wish they had always tried in the AC series: the ability to invade someone else's game world, disguise yourself as an NPC, and try to assassinate them. would have worked especially well in Odyssey with the mercenary system, the invading player could simply be one of the bounty hunters coming for the target player. and obviously should be completely optional, but i always thought that approach would work better than the weird modes they tried over the years and then gave up on. I have my issues with WD2 (the writing mostly) but that aspect of the multiplayer is a lot of fun

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Alhazred posted:

Who gives a gently caress about realism when you can ride a fabulous unicorn.

I 100% agree with this.

edit: I will say that I agree I probably wouldn't want every AC main character to be a literal demi-god. I think one of the reasons it worked so well in Odyssey is that it felt like we were living out a legend, since it was set so far back in the past. It would have felt a little weirder if Jacob and Evie felt as powerful in Syndicate, for example. Even though they also had crazy sci-fi powers. But Kassandra being a demi-god and misthios to the gods themselves worked for me, because it felt like we were living out a Greek myth or something. It was fun.

thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Oct 26, 2020

Pwnstar
Dec 9, 2007

Who wants some waffles?



Even if Kassandra had no magical powers she's like 7 feet tell and ripped as hell. If someone said she was a goddess I'd be like yeah makes sense.

JustaDamnFool
Mar 2, 2019


I will admit that the mythical hero stuff works in ancient Greece and will probably work in Valhallq, but it does act as a limiter on time periods and settings.

Writing this made me realise that I'd puy money on the next game in the series being set in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

It's not the red form anymore.
Incidental bones can file under the greens.


Earwicker posted:

how much physical fitness do i have to do to telepathically communicate with a hawk or see enemies through walls

Good AC (1-Revelations plus black flag) had an aesthetic of realism. It felt like a plausible (Hollywood) historical conspiracy with occasional supernatural/sci fi elements that appeared rarely and were treated like a Big Deal.

The alien precursors were treated like some horrible eldritch gods, and even memories of them through the apple drove people mad.

Bad AC has you fighting Spartans with a flaming sword, mano a mano duels with Thor himself, chilling with the ancient aliens in their city because they're just some guys now.

Hell it starts in Black Flag, where there's a freakin hologram of Jupiter shooting a dude with a laser pistol to demo the bulletproof armour. Boooooriiiiiing comic book bullshit IMO

Simone Magus
Sep 29, 2020


Strategic Tea posted:

Good AC (1-Revelations plus black flag) had an aesthetic of realism.

Nothing weird happens in Rogue, even during the endgame. Syndicate doesn't get weird until way past the halfway point, for the vast majority of Syndicate you're played GTA:AC or Batman Creed

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist


Simone Magus posted:

Nothing weird happens in Rogue, even during the endgame. Syndicate doesn't get weird until way past the halfway point, for the vast majority of Syndicate you're played GTA:AC or Batman Creed

Wait, what?!

Rogue endgame has laser walls cutting enemy mooks. And the whole plot depends on the fact that Lisbon earthquake actually happened because your hero has solved some dumb puzzle and touched a magical thing. This is way more important than you might think. Lisbon earthquake is sometimes blamed for this era cynicism as people has realized that some random force of nature can wipe out a whole city with no rhyme or reason.

Syndicate starts with crazy steampunk electricity tech and only goes crazier after that.

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Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




I mean AC1 ends with you fighting against a wizard and his magic orb so I don't know quite where you can uncontroversially draw the line between which of these games are weird and which are realistic

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