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JustaDamnFool
Mar 2, 2019


Yeah, the whole discussion does hinge a lot on personal taste, especially as the series has a whole has been flailing for a coherent throughline or theme since at least the end of 3. They haven't even really nailed down what the genre is supposed to be.

I will say that obviously fantastical stuff has become more forgrounded; Isu tech has gone from the unknowable macguffin that only shows up in the last 3 minutes of the game to a piece of starter equipment.

JustaDamnFool fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Oct 26, 2020

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Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Okay Bond/Borne was the wrong comparison - AC1/2/3/4 feels Indiana Jones-esque. There's an aesthetic of realism (I like that phrase) but with little hints of the supernatural around the edges and a finale where the characters encounter something magical and beyond their comprehension. I still have problems with the marginalisation of stealth in favour of combat that happened in Origins, but Bayek is still represented as a highly skilled and determined real person.

I think both styles are fine and fun, I just find it odd that people insist that there's no difference when Odyssey has clearly discarded that aesthetic in favour of having a comic book hero.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."




If Ubisoft still insists on making me sit through the whole ancient ones metaplot youíre drat right I want some magical powers out of it.

AFewBricksShy
Jun 19, 2003

of a full load.



I liked in the end of 2 when I kicked the poo poo out of the pope.

Oh dear me
Aug 14, 2012




Wolfsheim posted:

Vampyr was the free PSN game this month! It was mostly bad.

It's set in 20th century London, though I admit all the corpses make it feel earlier. (I've been enjoying it a lot so far, but I do play in Story mode.)

fuf
Sep 12, 2004

haha

I liked Vampyr a lot lol. Dunno why. I think mostly just the voice acting and atmosphere.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

and god is on your side
dividing sparrows from the nightingales

I would've liked it more if they just completely removed combat, though I don't know what 'penalties' they would've used instead for not killing people. Its just kind of a mess! I liked some of the bigger story beats and the general 'helping around the hospital' element though.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Alchenar posted:

I think both styles are fine and fun, I just find it odd that people insist that there's no difference when Odyssey has clearly discarded that aesthetic in favour of having a comic book hero.

I'm not saying there's no difference at all just that any constraints of realism started breaking well before Odyssey. i see it as it's something that's been clearly building the whole time through the series, not some line that was crossed with one game

in any case i dont really care how "realistic" the fighting actions of the protagonist are and im fine if they dial it back down for valhalla (as long as we keep bird mode which we are) but i do love some the more rpg oriented elements that have been added in the last two games. other than bungling one hit assassinations i find the gameplay in Odyssey really fun and ive put way more time into it than most AC games. i've also spent most of that time just roaming the world and doing smaller stories, assassinating house leaders, hunting cultists etc. instead of paying much attention to the main plot, which helps a lot. it's a repetative gameplay loop as in every AC game but this one just works for me more than the style of gameplay in 1 and 2.

Gorn Myson
Aug 8, 2007








I enjoyed the supernatural elements of Origins because I liked the idea of turning the relationship that people had with Egyptian mythology into a direct physical one.

Then you get to Odyssey and its "oh yeah this is all aliens", which is less fun and the character designs sucked.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013




Gorn Myson posted:

I enjoyed the supernatural elements of Origins because I liked the idea of turning the relationship that people had with Egyptian mythology into a direct physical one.

Then you get to Odyssey and its "oh yeah this is all aliens", which is less fun and the character designs sucked.

Kassandra felt very weird and modern with her view on religion to begin with. I think out of wanting her to still be able to be like ooh rah Sparta she transfers what should have been hatred of them to hatred of the gods in general. I dunno, it just felt out of place, and that's probably why it goes more ancient aliens, she's not a pious person who likes the gods to begin with...which is again weirdly modern. I would much rather take that approach of it being religious, at least to the characters.

Bakeneko
Jan 9, 2007



I hated the simulation-within-a-simulation stuff in Odyssey. At least the animus uses someone's memories so it's a mostly-accurate recreation of stuff that actually happened, but the bulk of the Atlantis dlc was just a different video game being played by your character in this game.

JustaDamnFool
Mar 2, 2019


Eimi posted:

Kassandra felt very weird and modern with her view on religion to begin with. I think out of wanting her to still be able to be like ooh rah Sparta she transfers what should have been hatred of them to hatred of the gods in general. I dunno, it just felt out of place, and that's probably why it goes more ancient aliens, she's not a pious person who likes the gods to begin with...which is again weirdly modern. I would much rather take that approach of it being religious, at least to the characters.

Definitely, what makes Bayek a stronger character is that he's much more immersed in the religion and culture of Ancient Egypt in a way that gives him a clear grounding in the ongoing events of Ptolomaic rule and the upcoming Roman occupation. Despite the game attempting to play up Cassandra's Spartan heritage, it feels weirdly unconvincing when she both has little involvement in the actual customs and rituals of that culture, and doesn't care enought to actually support them in the war.

Oh dear me
Aug 14, 2012




JustaDamnFool posted:

Despite the game attempting to play up Cassandra's Spartan heritage, it feels weirdly unconvincing when she both has little involvement in the actual customs and rituals of that culture, and doesn't care enought to actually support them in the war.

But Kassandra has every reason to know little and care less about Spartan customs, since she was a child when they threw her off a mountain in accordance with them.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



for whatever reason i choose to mainly support Sparta in the game anyway, i mean I fight with Spartans on occasion, but i kill way more Athenians

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013




Oh dear me posted:

But Kassandra has every reason to know little and care less about Spartan customs, since she was a child when they threw her off a mountain in accordance with them.

It's more her subsequent near atheism is the weird part. Her hating Sparta? Sure. But a more 'realistic' take would be for her to figure some god disagreed with what Sparta did and saved her, given she survived being thrown off a mountain. Her total atheism is just too modern.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Eimi posted:

Kassandra felt very weird and modern with her view on religion to begin with. I think out of wanting her to still be able to be like ooh rah Sparta she transfers what should have been hatred of them to hatred of the gods in general. I dunno, it just felt out of place, and that's probably why it goes more ancient aliens, she's not a pious person who likes the gods to begin with...which is again weirdly modern. I would much rather take that approach of it being religious, at least to the characters.

I guess that depends on how you play her? I have at least gotten a lot of dialogue options where you can dismiss the gods or praise them. Especially in the mission where you go to the volcanic island. In your final conversation you either choose the "you are only pretending to be Athena" or "the most logical solution here is that you are Athena in human form and I must give you praise"

And it's not like atheism wasn't a thing in ancient Greece. Anaximander and Anaximenes rejected mythological explanatory explanation for natural phenomenons. Xenophanes is probably the most well known philosopher who questioned the gods' existence:

quote:

But if cattle and horses and lions had hands
or could paint with their hands and create works such as men do,
horses like horses and cattle like cattle
also would depict the gods' shapes and make their bodies
of such a sort as the form they themselves have.


Earwicker posted:

for whatever reason i choose to mainly support Sparta in the game anyway, i mean I fight with Spartans on occasion, but i kill way more Athenians
I also noticed that Kassandra gets offended when Lysander starts poo poo talking Sparta.

Alhazred fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Oct 26, 2020

JustaDamnFool
Mar 2, 2019


Oh dear me posted:

But Kassandra has every reason to know little and care less about Spartan customs, since she was a child when they threw her off a mountain in accordance with them.

Good point. I guess what I was trying to saw was that she's fairly detached from the conflict that defined the setting. You'd imagine that setup could lead to a character who has some aim of revenge against Sparta and it's practices which could serve as an instigator of drama grounded in the period. Instead all that anger just gets directed towards the cult, which sucks all the air out the plot seeing as their defining trait is being evil for its own sake, with little else beyond that.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013




Alhazred posted:

I guess that depends on how you play her? I have at least gotten a lot of dialogue options where you can dismiss the gods or praise them. Especially in the mission where you go to the volcanic island. In your final conversation you either choose the "you are only pretending to be Athena" or "the most logical solution here is that you are Athena in human form and I must give you praise"

I also noticed that Kassandra gets offended when Lysander starts poo poo talking Sparta.

I remember a few options, but very few, and her non dialogue choice default attitude is one of dismissal. It was the biggest thing that felt off to me when I played through the game at launch.

Simone Magus
Sep 29, 2020


Vampyr is a far, far better game than any AC game please do not bad mouth it in this thread of all places lol

bobjr
Oct 16, 2012

Roose is loose.



In 4 you have a ton of precursor DNA in vials when you first get to the observatory, and when you get back itís all gone. Roberts says itís worthless, but considering he wanted his body destroyed after he died did he destroy them himself just in case?

ultrachrist
Sep 27, 2008


JustaDamnFool posted:

Yeah, the whole discussion does hinge a lot on personal taste, especially as the series has a whole has been flailing for a coherent throughline or theme since at least the end of 3. They haven't even really nailed down what the genre is supposed to be.

I will say that obviously fantastical stuff has become more forgrounded; Isu tech has gone from the unknowable macguffin that only shows up in the last 3 minutes of the game to a piece of starter equipment.

This is my bigger issue. While I would prefer more grounded history with weird undertones to pure goofball sci-fi, mostly I just want the theme to be coherent and somewhat consistent like the earlier games were.

Simone Magus
Sep 29, 2020


ultrachrist posted:

This is my bigger issue. While I would prefer more grounded history with weird undertones to pure goofball sci-fi, mostly I just want the theme to be coherent and somewhat consistent like the earlier games were.

The earlier games weren't actually any more coherent, they just had less nonsense by volume. The story has always been nonsense and considering they explicitly and literally copied the plot of 2 from The Widow's Son I doubt they're intending anyone to make sense of it.

Assassin's Creed is Calvinball

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

But that's why it worked. When you spend the whole game chasing the magic ball that breaks minds you don't need to worry too much about the implications of the victory lap mission where you break everyone's minds.

When the game starts with you having a magic dagger that teleports you to where you throw it and your character has long conversations with alien gods then the character no longer makes sense as someone who cares about mundane things.

Simone Magus
Sep 29, 2020


Oh I agree. I was speaking more broadly in the sense that even the non-alien fruity stuff was always nonsense. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted" is not just a clever reference, it's also the ubisoft design mandate, I believe

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

and god is on your side
dividing sparrows from the nightingales

Simone Magus posted:

Vampyr is a far, far better game than any AC game please do not bad mouth it in this thread of all places lol

Did your copy get hacked to remove all the combat or

Alchenar posted:

When the game starts with you having a magic dagger that teleports you to where you throw it and your character has long conversations with alien gods then the character no longer makes sense as someone who cares about mundane things.

This is why every 'kill five sharks!' mission only makes sense if the PC is an idiot, which is why Alexios works better because his voice actor really sells 'dumbass who doesnt know what's going on pinballing from one task to the next'

Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Oct 26, 2020

Simone Magus
Sep 29, 2020


Wolfsheim posted:

Did your copy get hacked to remove all the combat or

The combat isn't bad, just too easy. Granted that depends on whether you pick the weapons and powers that are stupidly OP or not though

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Also update: I'm really enjoying Unity and I'm really enjoying the fact that people are still playing Unity co-op.

Oh dear me
Aug 14, 2012




Simone Magus posted:

The combat isn't bad, just too easy. Granted that depends on whether you pick the weapons and powers that are stupidly OP or not though

I'm playing on Story Mode and it is not easy enough, dammit.

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013




Oh dear me posted:

But Kassandra has every reason to know little and care less about Spartan customs, since she was a child when they threw her off a mountain in accordance with them.

This is a fantastic sentence.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

and god is on your side
dividing sparrows from the nightingales

Simone Magus posted:

The combat isn't bad, just too easy. Granted that depends on whether you pick the weapons and powers that are stupidly OP or not though

Ehhhhhhh. I didn't find it terribly hard (I played through on normal without draining anyone and my only big stumble was in the middle when I didn't level up for a long time and fought the sewer boss) but it was still unpalatable enough that I almost quit in the tutorial before I made it to the hospital and went "Oh! This really is a dialogue-choicey-consequencey type game! Neat!"

But even then the plot feels very threadbare at times and a lot of the NPCs outside of the main plot don't have much personality outside of their initial conversation and the city is a chore to get around and most of the fights feel like padding. It likes a good concept that they didn't have enough money to make a good game out of. Maybe next time!

Gorn Myson
Aug 8, 2007








Alchenar posted:

Also update: I'm really enjoying Unity and I'm really enjoying the fact that people are still playing Unity co-op.
I decided to dive into it as well recently because Unity and Rogue are the only two AC games I haven't completed.

I'm only up to I think sequence 8, but so far it blows my mind that they use the French Revolution more or less as a background to some tedious local conflict between the Templars and the Assassins. Arno isn't particularly interesting as a character either.

But its so pretty. So, so pretty. Once in a while I'll accidentally hit synchronize while trying to dive and I'm okay with it because its just so pretty.

Simone Magus
Sep 29, 2020


Yeah Unity looks fantastic. It's just the most boring game in the series

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist


JustaDamnFool posted:

Definitely, what makes Bayek a stronger character is that he's much more immersed in the religion and culture of Ancient Egypt in a way that gives him a clear grounding in the ongoing events of Ptolomaic rule and the upcoming Roman occupation.

Up until he goes into precursor ruins, listens to ancient messages, gets freaking teleported, and then goes meh, nothing to say about it, now let me dream about my dead son some more.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Simone Magus posted:

Yeah Unity looks fantastic. It's just the most boring game in the series

I'll only agree with you that it's the most boring (that's definitely coming out, when I say I'm enjoying it I mean I love the city and like that iteration of the parkour and combat, and love the concept of co-op) if we agree that's because AC3 goes beyond boring into 'actively antagonising the player'.

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist


I've tried Unity recently and was surprised by how aggressively F2P it felt. I heard they made it easier to unlock stuff without paying but still, the game constantly reminded me that I could buy this cool thing with real money. Also while the main game was pretty stable multiplayer still was buggy and horrible and choppy. Reminded me of my dial-up days.

I was also rather hyped about assassins during the French revolution cause it felt like a perfect setting for the game. But in reality the revolution barely matters in the plot. You escape Bastille in the beginning in an epic siege (again, I'm reminded that some people might think that this sequence might have something to do with real history cause there are no flaming swords so lack of flaming swords in that instance is a minus, though at least you have shining invisible writings on the wall) and then sometimes you see some guillotine and people sing revolutionary songs on the street.

On the other hand, it's a first AC game that really aims at portraying a "photorealistic" historical setting. Buildings and streets are of the right size, the city has different districts with somewhat different people and businesses, central part of the city corresponds to the real map as 1:1. They've expanded on it in Origins and Odyssey and lost the right scale on the way. But the point is in actual detail and density of stuff. I think Unity would be remembered more fondly if they added a Discovery Tour , so that you notice all the effort that went into a background of a dumb story that has little to do with actual history.

JustaDamnFool
Mar 2, 2019


ilitarist posted:

Up until he goes into precursor ruins, listens to ancient messages, gets freaking teleported, and then goes meh, nothing to say about it, now let me dream about my dead son some more.

I mean, that's part of the reason why the Sci-Fi elements are so often the weakest parts of AC writing; in 2 the alien reveal was the shocking revelation at the end of the game, but by now most players are going to be inured to it, so it's impossible to write these revealing moments with the gravitas they deserve when any time spent with the character processing the fact that aliens exist is just retreading old ground.

On Paris, it is definitely one of the strongest locations in the series, while also being wasted on a plot that doesn't even want to be associated with the events its set in.

JustaDamnFool fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Oct 27, 2020

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Wolfsheim posted:


This is why every 'kill five sharks!' mission only makes sense if the PC is an idiot, which is why Alexios works better because his voice actor really sells 'dumbass who doesnt know what's going on pinballing from one task to the next'
I recently discovered that it's possible to kill sharks with a bow and arrow. I will now try to find out if you can shoot them with a fire arrow.

Simone Magus
Sep 29, 2020


Alchenar posted:

I'll only agree with you that it's the most boring (that's definitely coming out, when I say I'm enjoying it I mean I love the city and like that iteration of the parkour and combat, and love the concept of co-op) if we agree that's because AC3 goes beyond boring into 'actively antagonising the player'.

Oh for sure. AC3 is actually the only mainline game I'd outright recommend skipping. The George Washington DLC was really good though, and Liberation is surprisingly fun

Babe Magnet
Jun 1, 2008


https://twitter.com/NXOnNetflix/sta...081578697621508

wonder what this is about

e: oh

https://twitter.com/NXOnNetflix/sta...081672842969089

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exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."




Alhazred posted:

I recently discovered that it's possible to kill sharks with a bow and arrow. I will now try to find out if you can shoot them with a fire arrow.

You can. This is in fact the best way to kill sharks.

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