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khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Blockhouse posted:


e: Maximillian (yes I know) got to play the game privately and is doing character breakdowns.

Does Maximillian have a reputation for something? 'Cos I haven't watched much of his stuff but I saw one video he did on potential characters that could be in DBFZ and I had to laugh when he thought Babidi will be in the game, though maybe I'm just not being creative.

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khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

drat, I totally forgot how loving lit this scene is, and some people still moan about Super.

A shame Krillin got chumped by Frost.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Stairmaster posted:

not really. The two movies they made before it blow it out of the water

Of course the movies will look better than the TV show, that's kind of a given (look at the old Z movies made over the 90s, way better animation compared to the series).

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.
I can't think of any time in Dragonball where Bulma has ever donned a robot suit and beat someone up with it.

Before anyone says Namek she just used it as a submersible and led some goons into the maw of a giant crab. And that's probably not even canon.

Just skip to Super and put Kale, Caulifla and Ribrianne in the game.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

PantsBandit posted:

I'm not really opposed to them changing the look of characters but design should inform character. Dragonball characters are supposed to be bad-rear end superheroes. If the character they wanted for 17 in Super is "sort of boring park ranger who can still fight" then I guess they nailed it, but if that's the case I'd rather they just introduce someone else who's actually interesting.

17 and 18 were/are clearly meant to be visually misleading. Divorced from the context of Dragonball pretty much all of their designs and costumes look kind of normal and non-threatening. I mean look at this dumb kid:


The sneakers mom bought, the luminous green socks, the loving shirt underneath another shirt. His design screams less 'Bad-rear end superhero' and more 'hangs around the mall texting and never buying anything'. And of course decades later he's gotten a real job, family and responsibilities and dresses the part.

Toriyama loves this kind of thing, through Dragonball the most powerful characters often don't look that powerful at all (ie final form Frieza compared to his other forms, Fat Buu and Kid Buu, most of the androids, Goku when he was a kid, Whis. Recently its been taken to an extreme with Kale). I betcha 17's current look was deigned from him.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

anime was right posted:

if that was the point, why does every character look just as dull as her lol

You know, each to his own and everything but I'm legit a bit confused by this, I think the character designs in the ToP so far have been pretty great, there's a nutso amount of variation that makes it feel like they really have drawn in weird fighters from all corners of the multiverse and just based on their visuals alone you wonder what a character's weird gimmick is.

Like this guy:

He hasn't even done anything yet but I still wonder what his story and inevitable dumb powers are just from looking at him.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Zelder posted:

Where's my Mr Satan

Word is they tried putting him in but there was no way to realistically include him without making him ridiculously OP so he had to be abandoned.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.
Two Buu (will) Do.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Xad posted:


*Pretty sure these two were confirmed as DLC somewhere

Motherfucker, I swear to god if they go and do that stupid poo poo where there are 15 different types of Goku based off of minutely different transformations instead of actually different characters...

...I'll be quite disappointed.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Sade posted:

using the same or similar models doesn't make them the same character. the important thing for the game's health is that they have different mechanics, and we've already seen SSJ Goku plays a lot different from SSB Goku

Yeah, and how many times can you do that with the same actual characters? They could throw in tons of people like Hit, Beerus, gently caress even Dabura who, just from what we've seen in the show and comic, all have interesting looking, unique abilities instead of going through all of Goku's different hair colors first.

khwarezm fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Nov 22, 2017

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

BattleHamster posted:

I hope they do Kid Goku + Power Pole before they start doing different Super Saiyan levels

At the very least Kid Goku would add a bit more visual variety and you could do some interesting stuff with the pole.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.
Bulma does not fight to a degree that's impressive for a main character in a Shonen series, unless bopping Goku on the head when she's angry at his stupidity counts. The closest thing to a real fight I can think of was when she was in a submarine suit and had to fend off a giant crab, which probably wasn't even canon (she didn't even really do any damage to it, later she dupes some of Frieza's goon into getting killed by the thing). Chichi would make more sense, she can and does fight, but nobody ever mentions her for some reason.

khwarezm fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Dec 9, 2017

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Meme Emulator posted:

Thats because Chichis sort of a nobody and Bulmas the second introduced character in the series and joins in on all the adventures


Also its a video game so who cares if she doesnt fight in canon

Well they seem to be serious about making the game true to the series in general and the characters in particular.

Bulma just doesn't fight, it's really out of character for her. She invents things, finds the Dragonballs and is usually the only person in the room who has ideas beyond 'punch it really hard' (the fact that she was the only one who thought they should actually do something to find and stop the androids in the three years notice they had before it becomes a problem and everyone brushes her off with 'nah, I wanna good fight' is still hilarious to me).

And Chichi's not a nobody, she's been around since the first series, she tries to straighten out Goku and give her sons an actual future, she's cool :(

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.
This is probably a dumb question, but do we know if this game will be getting English voice acting?

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Big Scary Owl posted:

I gave up on the Super anime and just read the manga now.

:ssh: The manga is worse.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Endorph posted:

i mean, kind of, but at the same time there's a ton of stuff out there that is enjoyed almost or entirely by women, made by women, made for women, etc, and some of that includes stuff people act like is aimed exclusively at men, or just outright ignore existing. including people who try to act all woke and progressive. early anime fandom, both in japan and the us, was hugely, hugely female.

gundam only exists because women liked it back in the 70s, a lot of early anime that was brought over only got any hooks in because of women enjoying it, especially on the internet. so i have trouble buying this kind of talk as sincere because so many 'progressives' have basically shut me out of ever being able to talk about things as they actually are, because they're too busy shedding a single solitary tear for how bad women have it and always will have it, because they're more interested in feeling good about themselves than having any kind of actual conversation, or acknowledging that maybe women are capable of creating a space for themselves on their own.

You know, I know Reddit and youtube are probably easy targets, but they're massive sites that likely represent a huge part of the fandom of things like Dragonball, more so than Somethingawful at least. I sometimes go on them to see what the discussion around DB was after a new episode came out and I was much more involved with them when I was younger. I just remember when Caulifla and Kale were first introduced, almost from day one they tended to be the target of some really silly criticism that went on and on, and that criticism tended to be popular (IE, received a lot of upvotes on Reddit), especially for this scene which led to lots of 'Hohoho, must be on the rag, wait till she gets put in her place by Vegeta' type comments. A lot of people also complained about them being Mary Sue or whatever even though I don't think that made any sense in this situation, but Mary Sue always seems like a critique much more likely to be thrown at female characters.

Anyway, it's not that every criticism about these two makes you some kind of shitlord woman-hating bigot, but I think there really is this strong strain in the fandom that came across as boorishly misogynistic and doesn't get a huge amount of blowback so it can be tempting to want to use characters like Caulifla just to stick it to them.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Main Paineframe posted:

Most fandoms come across as boorishly misogynistic, because the only part of the fandom you see are the most obsessive and disturbed people, and because internet comment sections tend to self-select for shitheads anyway. Reddit as a whole is infested with misogynists and Nazis, so of course the Dragonball reddit or whatever is going to be full of misogynists and Nazis too.

I don't know if that's true, I also follow, say, Steven Universe and when I interact with that fandom (even if it's still Reddit) it's quite different, to the point that it's usually stereotyped as that show that SJW types go nuts for (which isn't necessarily untrue).

Reddit's kind of weird, I know goons have a lot of vitriol towards it but from my experience it's more plain and boring and less filled with seething hatred than you'd think. So many people use it at this point that it's probably a crude but effective yardstick on the 'internet viewpoint' on a lot of topics.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Improbable Lobster posted:

Reddit hosts plenty of average, boring communities alongside neo-nazis and paedophiles

They've mostly purged that kind of stuff at this point, even that notorious incel forum.

To be absolutely honest GBS is probably a much more noxious place overall right now than the front page of Reddit.

E; sorry, I should stop, this is a thread about Dragonball fighting games not misogynistic internet communities.

khwarezm fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Dec 23, 2017

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Waffleman_ posted:

They didn't say it was likely, just that it was possible that they would end up not doing Buu. I'm sure they'll do everything in their power to try to make it happen.

The Buu saga is so long, and already very comedic in a lot of ways compared to most of Z prior. It could feel like they don't have much to add.

It makes me wonder how much of stuff like the Videl/Great Saiyaman plot at the start they'd be willing to retread as well.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.
IMO, the best parts of the Dragonball franchise are the Sayian Saga, Frieza Saga, King Piccolo Saga, Tournament of Power and Goku Black Saga, in that order.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

TriffTshngo posted:

An interesting gimmick for Caulifla could be something that ties into her crazy fast growth in the story. Like starting off in base form and as she fights more she fills up a unique meter and progressively achieves more and more powerful forms and abilities, getting SSJ1, USSJ, SSJ2, and if she can max it out it would unlock the ability to fuse into Kefla with a level 3 super.

That would be hilarious.

We can have people complaining about her getting too many powerups in the game too!

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Momomo posted:

Don't really know what fighting game standard is, but 24 seems like a pretty good amount of characters for the first in a series. I think the reason people think it's low is because there are holes in the roster that other games usually have filled. For instance, there's no Super Buu, but Nappa still made it in. It seems clear they added him because he provided a different character archetype though, whereas Super Buu can be approximated with the other two forms.

Yeah it seems fine to me. I don't really know anything about fighting games, and maybe the 3v3 nature of this game would demand more characters, but something like, say, Mortal Kombat X or the first Injustice game both had 24 characters on launch as well.

They also pretty much went through all of the notable pre-TOP characters with only a few exceptions, and they can't make new characters too liberally in a franchise like Dragonball.

Personally I'd also prefer that they don't just rehash different forms of the same characters like other DB games do, so I don't miss things like Super Buu and I hope they don't end up making things like 'Regular Goku'.

khwarezm fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jan 11, 2018

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Endorph posted:

Yeah, they basically hit all the notes.

Like, going through Budokai 3, for instance:

Kid Gohan: Wouldn't really add anything, isn't as popular as teen or adult gohan.
Kid Goku: The game is focusing on Z and Super.
Great Saiyaman: A funny gag but not really an exceptionally interesting character gameplay-wise, Adult Gohan is the same guy, having Great Saiyaman in instead of Adult Gohan would be weird.
Kid Trunks: Represented by Gotenks, nobody really cares about Kid Trunks.
Goten: Represented by Gotenks, nobody really cares about Goten.
Hercule: Kind of a gag character.
Uub: Nobody cares, doesn't add anything gameplay wise.
Supreme Kai: Did he even throw a punch.
Raditz: Would represent the Saiyan Saga, but doesn't have as much gameplay potential or memetic popularity as Nappa.
Recoome: Represented in Ginyu's moveset, not really important enough on his own.
Dr. Gero: You could maybe base his gameplay off of draining/absorption but he isn't a very iconic or memorable character, plus there's 4 androids in the game already.
Super Buu: Already somewhat represented by Kid and Fat Buu, who have more nonstandard bodyshapes and more playful fighting styles.
Dabura: A fairly minor character with only one kind of interesting power, Buu Saga's already well-represented.
Bardock: Popular but wouldn't add a ton gameplay wise.
Cooler: Basically just Frieza 2.0.
Broly: Popular and has some moderate gameplay potential but is non-canon.
Omega Shenron: From a fairly maligned portion of the series, fairly low gameplay potential.
Saibamen, Cell. Jr: Nobody cares/gag characters.

The ones most conspicuous by their absence are Hercule, Bardock, and Broly, I'd say, and all three of those guys are strong candidates for DLC.

I'd actually like to see Kid Goku, Roshi and Dabura since I think you could assemble some pretty interesting abilities for them based on what's in the anime and comic, I guess Gero and Broly add something too.

But I don't really get Bardock, he seems to be really popular for some reason but I haven't seen his special in ages and I can't remember him displaying anything at all notable in terms of fights there. Of course maybe they could exploit his status as a great scientist.

Anyway, I presume a ToP DLC pack would be most obvious since it ties into recent hype with fresh characters, while also offering an oasis in the desert that is female representation in Dragonball.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

TaurusOxford posted:

We already got the most important Super characters besides Jiren(who doesn't have a moveset yet), Caulifla, and MAYBE Super Roshi. Besides, the movie villains are cool. Stop hating. :colbert:

Kefla, Toppo, Jiren.








(and Ribrianne)

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

Ribrianne wit h the rest of her Magical Girl squad as assist specials would be 100% amazing.

Assuming they actually do have 8 DLC characters you could have those four to represent the ToP, then you could have, like Bardock, Broly, Roshi and, uh, farmer with a shotgun.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

Broly will not get in over Kale/Kelfa.

If Kefla gets in over Kale she's pretty distinct from Broly and Broly is super popular for whatever reason while also having a very unique build and style.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Princeps32 posted:

guess i’m wierd i like the majin design way better than a generic lady with glasses.


her beam attack is a cool color also

A lot of people outside of SA seem to like her design.

As for me, all I can think is 'Sure is Caulifla in here...'

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.
Kefla basically turns into a bullet-hell boss by the end and it's great.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.
This game has an unusual amount of people being turned into food and then eaten.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.
I'm honestly surprised Akira Toriyama isn't morbidly obese at this point.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Internet Kraken posted:

Alright those are good answers.

He was talking to me about how Dragonball Z suffers from the "power gap" problem and how Jojo's innovative use of stands solves the "power gap" issue and after awhile I told him he had to stop because I didn't understand a word of it. I could tell he was putting way to much thought into the logic behind all the writing though.

People who are concerned about power levels, power scaling, power gaps or anything else to do with power are missing the point to the nth degree. Unfortunately that makes up most of the people talking about Dragonball on the internet, but even when they introduced power levels they almost immediately made them useless by first making it so that characters could change their detectable power level and then by making Frieza's power level literally more than a 120 million (for comparison Vegeta was famously shocked to see Goku's power level was over 9000!) so they just became meaningless big numbers.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Chaotic Flame posted:

Wait, are Goten and Trunks supposed to be in their teens in Super? That's definitely not the vibe I got.

The timescale this all takes place in is extremely vague and never stated in show, it feels like about two or three years have passed in-universe since Buu. For some reason the wiki has a list of dates and I assume they're pulled from some random magazine that the fanbase treats as unassailable canon.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Kild posted:

The difference being the characters you mention have several episodes dedicated to fights they can pull even normals from. Gero's 'fighting' consisted of punching a hole in Yamcha and running to his lab to get killed by his own creations. Hell, if you take away Gero's plot relevance, Android 19 is more deserving to be added since he had at least 2 fights. Dabura had more fighting than Gero but it was still very short and other than liking his aesthetic what argument do you have for him over say Pui Pui or Yakon who had nearly the same screen time.

Pui Pui and Yakon actually had way less screen time actually fighting compared to Dabura who fought Gohan and Buu, and in Dabura's fights he displayed a bunch of interesting and unique attacks beyond the sword and stone spit like his energy shockwave thing or his ability to conjure throwing spears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC-7qH-wzzU
Of course you could argue that a lot of his fights are filler, but the game clearly incorporates a lot of non-canon stuff from things like the movies, additionally he has a extended sequence in the Dragon Ball Super manga (albeit the future version of him from Trunks's timeline).

fadam posted:

Counter point:they probably want to put in cool characters instead.

You're a retard.

khwarezm fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Jan 24, 2018

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Flytrap posted:

Remember when Roshi rolled his eyes and explained that yes flying is a very technical and difficult move it's also useless poo poo in a real fight since it makes all your attacks come from weird stupid angles?

And now literally every fight happens almost exclusively in the air?

I'm starting to think he was just making excuses as to why he never bothered learning.

Oh definitely, he's bitter that the Crane School's techniques are so obviously useful so he's trying to think of any dumb reason to say it's poo poo.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.
Help, I can't stop listening to the character themes and watching cutscenes from the story mode on Youtube.

This gonna be good.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

IronicDongz posted:

Z's animation blunders are not constant and nowadays are mostly kinda charming, while super just looks bad all the time

Z was loving ugly constantly dude.

People remember the best stuff from the beginning and ending portions of the show, but on the whole it was insanely erratic.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Waffleman_ posted:

https://twitter.com/HiagoXYZ/status/986762291008983042?s=19

MAG-FUCKIN'-NETO

Also it seems like Vegito isn't officially confirmed, but people are going by the leaked list which has been accurate thus far.

I guess that means that base Goku and Vegeta are shoe-ins, I'm so excited :geno:

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khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.
This update is going to add one whole Goku!

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