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Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Uldor posted:

TWI Patreon: wooooooooooooo Numbtongue lives!

i just realized that i cant even remember Cloak Guy's name (shorthilt, maybe?) but he was my favorite. because ever since he got the champion class there was a line about him twirling his cloak whenever he got mentioned in a scene

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Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I think I'm just about finished with Worm and theres a lot of tangents that probably shouldn't be there. But I think it comes across as obvious that Wildbow is middle class, and believes in the system. That's why Worm is so focused on individuals. Another giant red flag is how he goes into Grue and Imp's broken home for a second. It's not very nuanced, stereotypical even. Maybe its just me talking but I remember when I went hungry way more often than I remembered my dad not being very warm.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Velius posted:

Oh come on, where’s Everybody Loves Large Chests? Or any of the many misogynistic fics by Mooderino?

Really that’s a pretty exhaustive list. I gave up on Heretical Edge after like 10 arcs. It’s got some good creepy stuff but just not that interesting overall. Gods are Bastards got waaaay too bogged down and I’m done with Wildbow. Really I think lots of people are, judging from how Practical Guide and Wandering Inn are doing in voting.

i dont understand why morning wood poo poo has to have a somewhat entertaining story combined with incredibly bizarre and pointless fetish stuff. the main character isn't even capable of loving

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
we obsess over it because our global culture is dominated by europe and europe's domination had pretty much everything to do with metallurgy, access to good iron and good coal. its what made armor plate and chainmail more viable, made terico squares and muskets more viable, etc

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
drat, Mother of Learning is really good. The setting is pretty well thought out even though it only gives you a piece or two at a time. I thought at first it was just the typical web novel making poo poo up as you go kind of thing, but the author had to have planned it out, at least in broad strokes. It's cool how they managed to combine the 1700s technology with magic being fairly widespread and highly developed without falling into traps other settings have, like 'oh nobody ever bothered inventing guns or trains or large sailing vessels because magic makes economics irrelevant'.

I guess that says nothing for how or why it's a good story, but I spent a lot of time working on ideas for MUDs as a kid where setting is a thousand times more important than compelling narrative so I guess it impresses me

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Cicero posted:

I viewed the public trials/spectacles as similar to the French Revolution, he's trying to rapidly change people's values to accept witches/reject nobility when they've had the nobility and been told witches are evil their whole lives, and the people in question were lovely enough to deserve it. Brutal, but probably effective.

As for the other things, basically every country has some kind of internal security/spying force aside from just regular police, and I don't really see the problem in handing out guns to his people? You seem to have a real problem with guns, but in terms of establishing a military to fight other countries/demons why would you not?

The similarity to TWI for me is the premise of a modern person dropped into a fantasy world using modern ideas, there's a decent amount of slice of life (not as much as TWI though), and lots of viewpoint characters. The protagonist's acceptance of torture does bother me (though it sounds like it's more psychological pressure than physically hurting people based on the descriptions), but I also appreciate that he's not as useless/aimless as the TWI protagonists.

To me it feels closer to modern Chinese state capitalism than Maoism. He doesn't have any zany, nonsensical ideas like "kill all the sparrows"/"let's force random peasants to make metal", his tech/science plans are all established things in the real world, and he encourages higher education rather than suppressing it. It's no liberal democracy, but replacing nobles with a bureaucracy is still a huge step up from feudalism, and given the overarching plot it makes sense.

Maybe I've been reading too many web serials/litRPG's, the protagonist being always right or nearly always right doesn't even faze me anymore. I don't think that's a Mao thing at all though.

you, uh, should try learning about mao some time. I think you're confusing his personal idiosyncrasies with the concept of a centralized socialist state that is starting from basically medieval technology

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

A big flaming stink posted:

TWI Patreon: I am seriously tilted by the casual manner of Ken stating that the world in TWI is, in fact, flat. Do the fundamental forces of reality just not exist there????????

this is even worse than the fact that english just so happens to exist in this world as it does in ours. Did the ancient french occupy the ancient english and introduce half of their vocabulary to the language as well??????

loving excellent chapter though


the world being flat (or at the least the natives think it is) has been confirmed since the Flos chapters. He tells the twins about that and claims hes even seen the edge of the world. also, every continent is the size of Eurasia. The English thing continues to be inexplicable, and all of the Earth characters that think about it think it's incredibly weird.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
The new MoL is good, my favorite kind of chapter. I kind of like the later slice of life stuff more than the early ones.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

navyjack posted:

Small Medium, the RR series by the same author and in the same world as Threadbear has a Muscle Wizzard and he is the best.

I love that guy so much lol

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
its funny that the wandering inn muscle wizard is literally just a guy talking about exercise like its magic, but the small medium version is a dude who's really a professional wrestler who just dresses like one and thinks wizards are cool. i like pirateaba but the idea that people would think someone insisting people do physical exercise is crazy just because magic exists is pretty funny

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

A big flaming stink posted:

Pisces did mention that he learned how to lipread without using a Skill and its portrayed as a pretty out there idea for him. there's also how nothing in the world manages to outlast the lifetime of its creator because they almost universally depend on their Skills without actually learning how to create it most of the time. Or more precisely, they never bother to teach the underlying theory because teaching a little bit is likely to convey Skills upon leveling. Laken for example vaguely explained how to construct a trebuchet and one of his engineers became an Engineer almost immediately and then intuitively understood the extremely complex physics behind the construction.

what was insane in that arc was that the goblins managed to reverse engineer how to construct their own trebuchet simply by watching the trebuchet attacking them from a distance in a matter of hours. this had nothing to do with a Skill and would seem to imply that goblins are insanely loving intelligent, or at least their language and social order are insanely loving better at communicating ideas and facilitating collaboration.

like, jesus.

the goblins are good at this specifically because it's the only collective society shown so far, so they're able to quickly communicate what they need and all of rags' crafter goblins get together and start work immediately without arguing about money or whatever. even the antinium dont count because most of them aren't sapient and cant think on their own

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
It's funny, I read the wondrous version and didnt think that at all. I figured they were just implying they knew she had to have a specialized high level class and that they did too. A bunch of characters in the book have them and they tend to be pretty secretive about specifics.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
kind of a boring WI chapter but whatever. i like olesem.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

A big flaming stink posted:

shut up you. Ilvriss and Erin tearing up because he had to finally leave was precious :qq: :qq: Also LOL that Erin thought he was proposing to her

I'm pretty sure that's just her joking to her self.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
to be fair I cant figure out how to explain any particular religion without basic concepts that most religions share. so how would you explain it to someone who is not just unreligious, but doesn't even understand the idea of it?

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
my advice is if your deaf, try not to bring attention to it with stuff like characters being temporarily deafened by explosions but nothing else. hearing is a lot like vision, it's a sense that can be overwhelmed. like I've got some minor tinnitus and its hard to sometimes understand people over this constant buzz. It's like if your vision was covered in TV static. But that doesnt mean I cant hear quiet stuff or loud stuff doesnt bother me, it just takes more focus to tune out the ringing

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I mean that's basically what web serial authors already do.


Anyway re: MoL, is it me or is this newest chapter like, 1/4th the size of the normal one?

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
also iirc the dungeon master explicitly tells him to stop trying to meta-game his intentions and just do what he thinks is right. what juniper thinks about the exclusionary principle being the DM nerfing things is completely conjecture. it could also be just another wacky law of physics in Aerb, or it is controlled by an intelligence but it's not the DM, etc

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Yeah they assume that the DM is hostile not by his actions but because Aerb is based almost entirely on Juniper's work and Juniper loved to be a hostile DM. Especially since a lot of the stuff in Aerb is from when he was spiraling into depression, specifically

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Yeah the TWI chapter was excellent. I'm so used to Ksmvr whining about himself being an inferior copy that I forgot that even a lovely copy of Klbch should still be a one man killing machine

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I get that but since I cant really remember him doing anything exciting in particular for like, 100 chapters, it was cool

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
someone give me the password because I dont get paid till friday

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

A big flaming stink posted:

you, uh, kind of lack pms.
also its literally 5 bucks

Yeah but the thing is they charge you on the first, and if you're broke on the first because its the end of your pay period, well,

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Ytlaya posted:

One thing I find kind of implausible that I think you're just supposed to ignore is the whole fact that Goddess was able to take over her planet in the first place. That one guy described them considering it a victory if only 30 people died in the process of killing a parahuman, but the vast majority of parahumans are extremely vulnerable to regular guns and IIRC there are at least 10,000 people for every parahuman (and I think more than that). It's true that there are some parahumans who are basically invulnerable to all normal weapons, but they make up a minority of parahumans and they can't be everywhere at once..

i think wildbow wanted to make it clear that parahumans aren't invincible which is why almost all of them have no defensive powers, but then for some reason non-parahuman crime apparently doesnt exist. if people hated parahumans as much as the story claims youd think there'd be a lot more people sniping parahumans, especially because even ultra powerful ones like Taylor and Tattletale aren't omniscient. Like nobody ever thought to put IEDs in the neighborhoods where they hang out or something. it's just weird that the setting's back story makes a big deal out of that one guy dying in a sports riot when hes basically the only one to ever be killed by normals

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
i havent read more than a chapter or two of ward but from the first book it always seemed like bone saw of all people was more relatable than panacea. Bone saw never wanted to do any of the stuff she had to, and it's not like escaping from jack is easy when hes one of the characters with bullshit superman like powers that can do anything. Whereas panacea just kind of stops caring what other people think and does whatever she wants, which is insanely horrifying when you can do literally anything to someone with a touch. honestly her power is terrifying. at least bone saw has to infect you with a magic super virus or do surgery on you first.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

A big flaming stink posted:

this is a bit of an asterisk with the goblin chapters, though. The goblins are a systemically oppressed race constantly on the verge of being genocided out of existence and the work tries to realistically depict the individuals that would be shaped by those circumstances.

One of the biggest :yikes: parts of TWI is that the characters occasional relate that goblins are prone to raping any non-goblin women they gain control of. It's never explicitly stated as such, but this is 100% a hateful stereotype inflicted on the goblins by their oppressors, and while some individual goblins do engage in that activity, those individuals are exceptional and other goblin characters straight up call such behavior inhuman (ungoblin, specifically).

but the goblin chapters can still be really rough to read on occasion.

The goblins are my favorite characters tbh

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I finally got around the reading the new MoL and I guess that means the next chapter will actually be interesting??

It's funny that Zorian keeps loving up hiding his powers and resources, though.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
so I've read a pretty good chunk of Ward, and it's kind of weird how much it's like Worm. Does wildbow purposefully write his criminal characters to be way more relatable than the other ones? Like Imp and Rachel were always better for me and in this one I like Ashley and Rain a lot more. Maybe it's just because besides Victoria they got the most background so far. But I kind of hate most of the characters in this.

Maybe I've internalized hating middle class people so much that even fictional middle class people annoy the poo poo out of me, idk.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
So I just read the Ward chapter about Kenzie's parents and why is nearly every wildbow hero character 40x as insane as the average villain

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Also I caught up on WTC and frankly I figured that would happen eventually. That characters always been an alien weirdo about that stuff. But maybe it didnt bug me as bad because I felt like it was inevitable. Normally that sort of drama absolutely sucks to read and makes me hate whatever it was in

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
my take is sexual assault is bad when it's there for jack off purposes and... well good is the wrong word but it's not bad when it's for a story purpose.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I wanted more of the United Nations stuff tbh. Erin and Ryoka are cool but what they do doesn't feel as important usually. Also I want to know what the Wistram guy is up to now that he invented broadcast television and [Message] chat

Hell I'd take another Insane Clown Guy chapter because Rhir is interesting

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
TWI Patreon: holy poo poo Antinium heaven exists

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Yeah when I first watched it as a kid I was like, wow, hes so wacky driving the car off a cliff. As an adult I was like oh jesus christ he just wants to die already, that's dark as gently caress.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

90s Cringe Rock posted:

The Wandering Inn is when Erin throws a party and the more party she throws the more The Wandering Inn it is.

Edit: muscle wizard owns and I have high hopes for muscle pisces and muscle ceria

I want Relc to pick up magic

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
The solstice stuff was genuinely pretty creepy to me tbh

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Yeah TWI is basically one of like two fantasy stories I've read where despite having big powerful heroes it seems to focus on people working together being much more powerful

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
he's saying its bad when its the literary equivalent of those games that have romance options that are just always available to the player no matter what, so its not actually part of their character, its just there to make the Product available to as many people as possible. its not like books or even webnovels are immune to this kind of cancerous liberal capitalist thinking where representation is a checkbox thats there because we all know all gay people will consume any product with a gay person, therefor we need a token gay character in every product who's only there to be gay


there doesn't have to be a point to a character being gay, but like. i didnt grow up around only heterosexuals, i dont assume everyone else is a heterosexual. but if theres no romance or sexual tension in a novel there's no reason for anybody's sexuality to come up. so its weird when a lovely book just has Side Character B that's there to make comments on male characters or whatever because the dumbass writer doesn't know how to write a gay character

Larry Parrish fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Aug 17, 2019

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
im kind of a prude so it actually kind of does bother me if a book is like 'Oh by the way this guy fucks a lot' but its never used to set anything else up, it's just a random one off detail. mostly I just find it kind of lazy. I guess I'm a big believer in chekhov's gun

also I realize this is hilarious to say in the web serial thread, one step above bathroom graffiti in terms of literature, but maybe the dipshit who assumes every character is like them unless stated otherwise doesn't need to be considered

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Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Sampatrick posted:

As an aside, this right here is stupid as poo poo.

For an example of why this poo poo is stupid as poo poo, replace every mention of gay with black. Why is there an expectation, usually from straight people, that if there is a queer character, that part of their character must always be front and center?

the kind of trash novels I read usually dont mention skin color at all, but unfortunately when they do, it's to illustrate them as Different. Sometimes it's in a racist way (lots of trash genre fiction has the bad guy be some flavor of non white, or in a rare but still racist reversal, they're the only white character). othertimes it's just one or two characters that get skin color described and you're left wondering why, exactly, it came up. anyway we were talking about queer characters that are queer just so you can say that theres a queer character in it, and that particular situation wouldn't change if it was having a random black character just to say you have a black character.

Jazerus posted:

the problem is when one character is queer, and their queerness is their character, or a majority of it. it comes off as "welll, i don't really know any gay people but i don't want to write a 100% straight story, so i'll just say john is gay and occasionally he leaves the group to hit on dudes. but nobody else who's a named character is gay, except maybe there's a lesbian princess because that's hot"

there's a big difference between queer representation being an integrated part of the work, with their orientation treated like hermione's frizzy hair - i.e. a detail in a description of a whole person - and the kind i described above, which channels the 90s ultranerd exoticization of queerness

this is basically what I'm trying to say but smarter

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